NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This post was made by a American liberal who voted for Kerry.

Here's an idea I had:

Combine the United States and Canada into one nation- the United States of Canada. Now, I know that most Canadians and Americans will think I'm crazy, but here's why.

A united U.S.A and Canada has the potential to become the greatest nation on Earth. With Canadian economic management (only country in G8 to not have a deficit for several years running) and American know-how and infrastructure, the USC's economy would dominate the world economic stage.

Also, it would give Americans a chance to redeem themselves- a new start, if you will. Because of the actions of our moron of a president, our nation has been thoroughly discredited. We could use a fresh start.

What type of government to use? I say Westminster system, but make it a republican head of state in lieu of the Queen- because I know that most Americans (and many Canadians) don't really want the British monarch as their head of state.

Now, some of you may be worried that we would ruin the Canadian liberal tradition. Nonsense! Canadian liberals can help we U.S. Libs get our act back together once again- and overtake the conservatives. We would be able to revolutionise America.

It's an idea. Feel free to post questions, comments, or whatever.

I say Canada just annexes us as a beginning to the process. Quick and easy!

I say Canada just annexes us as a beginning to the process. Quick and easy!

Being the American in exile in my own country, I'd probably support that :D

But, seriously, any unification would have to be mutual.

I think Canada and the US are going to be unified eventually, but not soon. There are many differences in what Canadians and US people want from a government, even if all the other elements are there: political freedoms, combined economies and trade, etc.

It will probably be many decades or even a few centuries before it can happen. Unless the aliens invade and unite the whole Earth under their alien tentacles.

True enough.

But I have a feeling it may not happen.

And you'd be surprised how many people love the royal family.

I don't thinks it's going to happen, at least not well, anyhow.

I think Canada and the US are going to be unified eventually, but not soon. There are many differences in what Canadians and US people want from a government, even if all the other elements are there: political freedoms, combined economies and trade, etc.

It will probably be many decades or even a few centuries before it can happen. Unless the aliens invade and unite the whole Earth under their alien tentacles.

ALIENS ARE COOL!!!

I had to say it.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled debate.

Not for a long time.


But I feel it is likely that eventually America will have so much influence in parliment they will run Canada, and then Canadians will sign a thousand petitions.

Thousands upon thousands of them! You'll be overwhelmed......

And then will probably start blowing ourselves up.

True enough.

But I have a feeling it may not happen.

And you'd be surprised how many people love the royal family.

I don't thinks it's going to happen, at least not well, anyhow.

Opinion is split in Britian. People who don't like the Royals shout about how crap they are and the people who do like the Royals keep their heads down. I thought Canada liked having a Queen as the Americans don't have one ;)


I've got a better plan though. We unite America, Britian & Canada.

I've got a better plan though. We unite America, Britian & Canada.
Hmmm... A clever plan to recover the colonies, eh?

it's an idea with merit.
As long as we could retain the Queen as nominal head of state it'd be cool.
Besides it would piss off the French and that's good in my book.

Cool fictional mergings:

India + Pakistan
Russia + China
UK + France + Germany
United States + Japan
Saudi Arabia + Lebanon + Syria + Jordan + Iraq + Iran + Yemen + Oman + Egypt + Turkey
Greece + Italy
Superman + Batman
Canada + Australia
Palestine + Israel

I don't feel like taking the time to back up my views so yeah.

As long as we could retain the Queen as nominal head of state it'd be cool.

Besides it would piss off the French and that's good in my book.

Motion passed on the grounds that it would piss the french off. Sorry about this French-Canada.

It will probably be many decades or even a few centuries before it can happen. Unless the aliens invade and unite the whole Earth under their alien tentacles.
I always thought tentacles were for an entirely different purpose than letting humans unite under them. At least, that's what the Japanese tought me.

(On second thought, this isn't really very funny unless you know what I; talking about. Damn, foiled again.)

I always thought tentacles were for an entirely different purpose than letting humans unite under them. At least, that's what the Japanese tought me.

(On second thought, this isn't really very funny unless you know what I; talking about. Damn, foiled again.)
I'm sure the aliens will find the Japanese reaction very curious, and perhaps flattering. But they will mostly use them to rule with an iron grasp.

As long as we piss off the French im in 100%.

I'm sure the aliens will find the Japanese reaction very curious, and perhaps flattering. But they will mostly use them to rule with an iron grasp.
Really I was think down the line of reproductive experiments, but then I'm just wierd!

As a Canadian, I am not for the idea. I doubt many Canadians outside of Alberta would be. We Canadians don't like the way things happen in American politics. You know that the Americans would try to run the show. I couldn't handle the mis-use of separation of church & state that happens in America, nor the patriot act, nor the corruption that every government has, the Americans just a little more than most. We Canadians I don't think we identify with Americans as much as people seem to think we do. I can't imagine it happening any time soon. I am only but one Canadian, but poll after poll taken here in Canada would suggest I'm in the majority of how Canadians feel.

Footnote - If the American blue states wished to join Canada, that might be a different story.

Get those Neo-cons under control and maybe we'll talk... but personally I prefer the idea of just taking all the blue states and splitting THEM off and joining them up with Canada. They have a more informed populace, better civil rights tendencies, and stronger economies... so win/win and win again.

Let those loonies in the bible belt have their own little country to screw up to their heart's content, only now they can do it without being subsidized by the evil liberals. Better that than having them sticking their noses into our shiny new country.

Get those Neo-cons under control and maybe we'll talk... but personally I prefer the idea of just taking all the blue states and splitting THEM off and joining them up with Canada. They have a more informed populace, better civil rights tendencies, and stronger economies... so win/win and win again.

That's why any such union would need Mexico to work. About 4/5 of the Canadian population think "liberally". That's about 24 million people. Which would be added to the approx 140 million in the States who think alike. Now, if you really want clinch it throw in the 3/4 of Mexicans with the same ideology, that's 75 million. That's 181 million "conservatives" against 239 million "liberals."

Of course, I'm using very approximate numbers and statistics and not any hard backed data, which keeps changing anyway.

I have to agree that anything that pisses the French off is really tempting.

However - there really are some substantial differences in our systems. Many Canadains do indeed like having the Queen as our Head of State. Having the President/Prime Minister elected seperately from the house would be a good thing, unlike the current Canadain system.

What would happen to things like health care? Much cheaper and gov't funded in Canada. Could we afford to carry that to a United States of Canada? with the much larger population I'm not sure. How about taxes they are also higher in Canada to support some of those programs we as a nation like, would that states be willing to pay higher taxes?

Carefull what you wish for, people.

Hmmm... A clever plan to recover the colonies, eh?
Well of course, what do you expect?

Many Canadains do indeed like having the Queen as our Head of State.

She is nothing more than a figure head now. Since we signed away in 1982. If she were to try and butt into Canadian business it would be struck down in the Supreme Court of Canada. The Queen doesn't really have a say in any thing Canadian. We only let her stay the figure head out of respect.

The Queen doesn't really have a say in any thing Canadian. We only let her stay the figure head out of respect.

Exactly - no she does not have any real political power, but many Canadians still respect her and like the seperation between Head of State, and Prime Minister.

Exactly - no she does not have any real political power, but many Canadians still respect her and like the seperation between Head of State, and Prime Minister.

Much like every other country that still has Britians Queen as head of state, including Britian!

I'd vote no, if this were a vote.

Canada has a population of 32 million. The US has a population of nearly 300 million. The voices of Canadians would be drowned out.

The deficits of the two nations would have to be combined, and our taxes would go towards sustaining the US military instead of universal healthcare. Suddenly, we'd be living in a country with brother provinces - what? you prefer I call them states? - who allow capital punishment.

This post is not intended to knock or bash the US, (but because I'm against the idea, most of my comparisons are going to be negative) so I'll keep it short: for Canadian liberals there is very little to benefit our joining the US. There are many Canadian conservatives who will believe otherwise.

Edit: And frankly, the same swamping would occur if just the blue states joined Canada. Their population would still dwarf ours by up to 4 or 5 times, and we'd suddenly find out just how purple the blue states really are.

I think that a much better idea would be combining all of the FTAA states.
















No, just kidding, thats la bad idea.

I'm sure the aliens will find the Japanese reaction very curious, and perhaps flattering. But they will mostly use them to rule with an iron grasp.

Thank you for using "grasp" rather than "fist" in this situation.

What is it with people and their belief that "Pissing the French off" is a sound basis for an initiative?

I mean, do we base our entire foreign policy on "Pissing off those wankers from Spain!"

Get a grip, people. Hate only begets more hate.

What is it with people and their belief that "Pissing the French off" is a sound basis for an initiative?

I mean, do we base our entire foreign policy on "Pissing off those wankers from Spain!"

Get a grip, people. Hate only begets more hate.

Sheesh... what's his problem?

I think it's called a joke.

Sheesh... what's his problem?
Give me one good reason why "Pssing off the French" would be a good excuse to do something like merging two countries and I'll listen.

I'm getting tird of people bashing the French just as much as Americans are tired of people bashing their country. Criticize their policy, fine. Attack them with ad-hominem just for the hell of it? What is wrong with you people?

As a Canadian, I am not for the idea. I doubt many Canadians outside of Alberta would be. We Canadians don't like the way things happen in American politics. You know that the Americans would try to run the show. I couldn't handle the mis-use of separation of church & state that happens in America, nor the patriot act, nor the corruption that every government has, the Americans just a little more than most. We Canadians I don't think we identify with Americans as much as people seem to think we do. I can't imagine it happening any time soon. I am only but one Canadian, but poll after poll taken here in Canada would suggest I'm in the majority of how Canadians feel.

Footnote - If the American blue states wished to join Canada, that might be a different story.

Considering the fact that the American blue states have a larger pop and economy than Canada, I don't think they would be joining Canada. It would be the other way around. (I mean honestly, that's like saying Ma And Pa's Local Trinkets is going to buyout Megamart.)

Considering the fact that the American blue states have a larger pop and economy than Canada, I don't think they would be joining Canada. It would be the other way around. (I mean honestly, that's like saying Ma And Pa's Local Trinkets is going to buyout Megamart.)

Not if they wished to join Canada, besides, blue states and Canada share common values. So I wouldn't see it as a problem. We'd all just be one big happy liberal country.

There is no blue and red states, If you did a comparison county by county you would see that majority of the states are covered in red, and only spots are coverered in Blue.

There will be no one joining Canada, maybe Canada being over taken by the US in a land grab. Not like your 60,000 troops could stop us.

Sorry, but it would never work. Forget all of America, Blue state America is way too messed up. The liberals in the US would still be far to the right of Canadian liberals, especially on social issues.

Then there's the whole gun issue. A hell of a lot of American liberals own guns, and their attitudes are very different from ours, I doubt that they'd accept much stronger controls. Then there's the crime. Cities like Chicago and Detroit, which are around the same size as Toronto, have 10 times the murders a year.

However, a fair (Really fair, not like NAFTA) economic union between Canada, Blue state America and Quebec (Yeah, they're independent now :p) would be seriously cool.

There is no blue and red states, If you did a comparison county by county you would see that majority of the states are covered in red, and only spots are coverered in Blue.

There will be no one joining Canada, maybe Canada being over taken by the US in a land grab. Not like your 60,000 troops could stop us.

See, that would be relevant, if we had the same population per square mile everywhere.

Try to tell me that there are the same number of people per square mile in NYC as there are in say, Nowhere, Random Midwest State.

Wrong.

Nuts to that. I'll keep the civil rights and you guys can keep military supremacy and scary religious zelots, thank you very much.

There is no blue and red states, If you did a comparison county by county you would see that majority of the states are covered in red, and only spots are coverered in Blue.

Only if, for some inexplicable reason, you plot the map based on land area instead of by population. So some backwoods county that has 50 people in it but covers as much real estate as Manhattan looks as if it equally balances out that island of a million or so people.

On the other hand if you plotted it based on population you'd get something that looked like this:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/countycartredbluelarge.png

Where each county's relative size is reproportioned to be representative of it's resident voting population. Which of course is just a wee bit more accurate since whether an area was red or blue wasn't determined by the acreage of the people casting the votes last time I checked.

There is no blue and red states, If you did a comparison county by county you would see that majority of the states are covered in red, and only spots are coverered in Blue.

There will be no one joining Canada, maybe Canada being over taken by the US in a land grab. Not like your 60,000 troops could stop us.
Yes, but our 7 million firearms and the persons who own them certainly could. Don't underestimate civilian resistance.

Not if they wished to join Canada, besides, blue states and Canada share common values. So I wouldn't see it as a problem. We'd all just be one big happy liberal country.
But why would they want to join Canada. Their economic positions are sufficiently strong as to allow them to be independent. What benefit would they gain.

Also, assuming said union did occur, the "blue states" have a large economic and population advantage over Canada, allowing them to effectively take over Canada. Why submit to the rule of someone that is effectively weaker?

You do realize most "blue" states are rather conservative in many tendencies, they just did not vote for Bush these past two elections. But compare them to Reagan in 1984, winning 49 states...and surely many Canadian liberals aren't a huge fan of Ronnie... The thing is, an American is an American, be we liberal or conservative. Very few would favor breaking off and joining with Canada. Honestly, Canada's economy is far more dependent on the US in the way of exports (indeed, most of the population of Canada resides within 50-100 miles of the US border, and it's not just because the weather is a smidge milder)

As for Crime, Canada's crime rates are just as high as the US save murder. In fact, Canada has a higher rape rate per 100,000 people than the United States.

It would never work. It's the world's worst kept secret that Canadians absolutely loathe Americans. All I hear from Canadian media is whining about us, whilst our military is the only thing that keeps you protected. (Not dissing the Canadian military, but the liberal government has positively gutted it).

How about government by me? That works better... :p