NationStates Jolt Archive

So, what are your thoughts. In my opinion, most things labeled ADHD are the result of a parent that doesn;t discipline their child. While growing up, i know kids who toll ritalin and straterra and adderol 9and other medicines of their ilk). When they were home, their parents let them have the run of the house. that;s not right. alot of the times, paretns don't want to deal with their kids so they cart them off to therapists, when the real proble is theirselves.

Is it jsut me, or is the next generation gonna become mindless robots?

W00t! First vote!

But really, I think it's a problem with diagnosis and definition. The idea that just because a child is hyper and can't pay attention that it is a good reason to pump them with drugs is bullshit. Maybe it's a problem with the school system and the way teachers teach? There are a number of causes, but it is not a disease or disorder.

I know. They (my former elementary school) tried to tell my parents I had ADD. They took me to a psychiatrist, and said that it was because I wasn't being challenged enough and I knew most of the stuff from the year (grade 2). I didn't get skipped ahead (it was half way through the year), but I got a special thing of grade 3 work. /Anecote

As I know nothing about this I had to google it

Linky (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm)

I dunno about ADHD, but I know ADD is legit.

I think you left out social problem, ADHD seems to be the product of the MTV era. Even news stations are jumping on the bandwagon. With all those flashy screens, how can you expect a kid to sit through a book?

I dunno about ADHD, but I know ADD is legit.

It may be "legit", but the idea of treating it with drugs is stupid.

I think you left out social problem, ADHD seems to be the product of the MTV era. Even news stations are jumping on the bandwagon. With all those flashy screens, how can you expect a kid to sit through a book?
Especially all the shitty ones they assign for reading at school. I will give them a list of books that don't suck and they can assign those.

All books by Jane Eyre or her sister are EXCLUDED.

Well, being the son of a teacher, I can tell you right now that ADD and ADHD do exist, and that it is a true mental disorder steming from a chemical inbalance in the brain.

HOWEVER. There are VERY few severe cases that you hear so often about. And it is true that alot of children are misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD, when perhaps the child is just...being a kid and the parents and educational system cannot handle it.

It may be "legit", but the idea of treating it with drugs is stupid.
I dunno, the drugs worked pretty damn well, it's just that they had serious side effects for me. They work well for some people, but it seems they're the minority.

I can't think of any other method of treatment that would work... I wish I could, though.

There are sometimes legitamate cases of ADHD. But I think it's pretty rare. Most of the time I blame it on crappy parents that don't know how to control their kid, or that give their kid too much sugar and it's just on a sugar rush all day.

I dunno, the drugs worked pretty damn well, it's just that they had serious side effects for me. They work well for some people, but it seems they're the minority.

I can't think of any other method of treatment that would work... I wish I could, though.

A change in the education system? Except for impusiveness, the other two can be treated by taloring education to the student. A hyperactive student would be better taught in a fast-paced, exciting situation, and a sluggish, daydreaming person would be better taught things that actually interest him, or in a stimulating way.

EDIT: Yes, this will not work in some cases, but it's about taloring it to the student. Interview them, find out what would make them want to learn, want to sit still.

There are sometimes legitamate cases of ADHD. But I think it's pretty rare. Most of the time I blame it on crappy parents that don't know how to control their kid, or that give their kid too much sugar and it's just on a sugar rush all day.

Wrong. Sugar has not been definatly linked to hyperactivity, and I believe that just released a study saying there was no corolation. (Sorry, I read it in the paper, no source)

I think you left out social problem, ADHD seems to be the product of the MTV era. Even news stations are jumping on the bandwagon. With all those flashy screens, how can you expect a kid to sit through a book?

Yup. I just saw something in the news recently that connected TV watching with ADD/ADHD.

Honestly, I think that there a good number of people (myself included) who where ADD/ADHD is less a disorder and more just a personality type that our society is not set up to handle. I was diagnosed with ADD years ago, and I cope fine without medication. But nobody else realizes that repitition does me no good.

Well, being the son of a teacher, I can tell you right now that ADD and ADHD do exist, and that it is a true mental disorder steming from a chemical inbalance in the brain.

How does you being the son of a teacher mean that you know that ADHD exists?

Why the mass diagnosis of ADHD?

Because you make kids sit in desks for 8 hours a day with a 15 minute recess and 30 minute PE. Why could CHILDREN be hyperactive? No idea...

How does you being the son of a teacher mean that you know that ADHD exists?

Yes. Read my anecdote. It was a teacher who wanted to put me on Ritalin.

Why the mass diagnosis of ADHD?

Because you make kids sit in desks for 8 hours a day with a 15 minute recess and 30 minute PE. Why could CHILDREN be hyperactive? No idea...

You, sir, are brilliant!

Why the mass diagnosis of ADHD?

Because you make kids sit in desks for 8 hours a day with a 15 minute recess and 30 minute PE. Why could CHILDREN be hyperactive? No idea...
Very true, there are times when kids just need to burn off some energy.

Very true, there are times when kids just need to burn off some energy.

True. There must be an analysis of our current education system (Canada and US) to determine if it's really effective.

How does you being the son of a teacher mean that you know that ADHD exists?

Because she tells me stories consistantly of the normal kids and the ADHD kids. There is a huge difference between normal kid hyperactivity, and a child that nearly choked his cat to death, and she (being a teacher for 20+ years) can tell this difference. I have helped out in her classroom and I'VE seen the differences.

ADHD and ADD are real mental ailments, and as I've also stated it is oftentimes mistaken for everyday child hyperness. I neither support nor decry the use of drugs.

And, let me also clear this up. My mother was NOT the person who diagnosed these children with ADD or ADHD, she did not even bring it up. They DUMP these kids on her.

I would say it is neither legitimate nor a parenting problem. It is mostly a teacher problem, but also a psychiatry problem and a pharmaceutical industry problem.
Teachers are both victims and perpttrators in this area. Victims, because they have to deal with a bunch of snotty brats who by law in some places, they are not allowed to discipline. Perpetrators because they are employees of a system based on compulsion and conformity, and anyone who does not conform must be dealt with. In modern times, the easiest way to solve the snotty brat problem and the conformity problem is to give drugs that make kids complacent.
Brave New World is already here. We don't teach values (religious or secular) or even the basic "three R's" in our schools, but Ritalin and condoms are free for the asking.
But I do believe that ADD and ADHD are real problems, just not in the way many people think. If the real causes were to become generally known, most of the psychiatry profession and a great deal of the pharmaceutical industry would go down the crapper. The real cause is not any chemical imbalances or anything like that, but rather keeping children locked up in classrooms, being told to sit still for hours on end while they are at the peak of their energy, having to beg for the natural right to use the bathroom and having less privacy than a prisoner in a crowded concentration camp.
The war on drugs: Just say no to the drugs the government deems bad for you.
The war on mental illness: Just say yes to the drugs the government deems good for you. - Thomas Szasz

Especially all the shitty ones they assign for reading at school. I will give them a list of books that don't suck and they can assign those.

All books by Jane Eyre or her sister are EXCLUDED.

Hmm... I must have missed that book by Jane Eyre. Ditto the one by her sister. Are you sure you read the book's cover?

So, what are your thoughts. In my opinion, most things labeled ADHD are the result of a parent that doesn;t discipline their child. While growing up, i know kids who toll ritalin and straterra and adderol 9and other medicines of their ilk). When they were home, their parents let them have the run of the house. that;s not right. alot of the times, paretns don't want to deal with their kids so they cart them off to therapists, when the real proble is theirselves.

Is it jsut me, or is the next generation gonna become mindless robots?
i think ADHD and related disorders are waaaaaaay over diagnosed, but they DO exist. there are children who actually suffer from hyperactivity or attention disorders, it's just that far too many kids are being put on drugs now as a quick fix...the kids who actually have real problems are getting screwed over by this as much as the kids who are being misdiagnosed.

Teachers are both victims and perpttrators in this area. Victims, because they have to deal with a bunch of snotty brats who by law in some places, they are not allowed to discipline. Perpetrators because they are employees of a system based on compulsion and conformity, and anyone who does not conform must be dealt with. In modern times, the easiest way to solve the snotty brat problem and the conformity problem is to give drugs that make kids complacent.

(snip)

But I do believe that ADD and ADHD are real problems, just not in the way many people think. If the real causes were to become generally known, most of the psychiatry profession and a great deal of the pharmaceutical industry would go down the crapper. The real cause is not any chemical imbalances or anything like that, but rather keeping children locked up in classrooms, being told to sit still for hours on end while they are at the peak of their energy, having to beg for the natural right to use the bathroom and having less privacy than a prisoner in a crowded concentration camp.



Please don't generalize all teachers as being unable to handle children. Like I said, ADD and ADHD are real, they are chemical inbalances, but they really only exist in VERY severe forms.

If anything my mother would AGREE with you on kid treatment. She is a HUGE advocate of recess time and makes sure the kids are always doing something with their energy.

So I ask again, please don't generalize teachers as cheerless taskmasters or impatient people.

Hmm... I must have missed that book by Jane Eyre. Ditto the one by her sister. Are you sure you read the book's cover?
I think jane eyre was the book now that I think about it - crap, I mean the Brontes. All books by the Brontes should be removed from any and all reading lists

I think another problem is the streotypes of ADD kids. I've overheard teachers bitching about a student spitting on the floor, and excusing it as ADD and his medication wore off.
Christ, I have ADD, and I would NEVER do that. And medication does not equal good manners pills. And that's my rant.

Persoanlly I think it's a number of things.

Firstly, ADHD is a known behavioral problem and sometimes co-exists with bipolar tendencies. On the other hand I've heard far too many instances of grade school teachers "diagnosing" ADHD and requesting such kids be put on Ritalin. In most cases these are overworked teachers in crowded classrooms with kids who are bored sick so it should be no surprise they act up. Personally if I had a child in school who was requested to be dosed up with Ritalin by a lowly teacher with no medical nor psychiatric expertise I'd remove them from that school or insist the teacher should be put on Ritalin, or terminated.

Especially all the shitty ones they assign for reading at school. I will give them a list of books that don't suck and they can assign those.

All books by Jane Eyre or her sister are EXCLUDED.

Jane Eyre is a book.
Perhaps you meant Charlotte Bronte?

Jane Eyre is a book.
Perhaps you meant Charlotte Bronte?
Check a couple posts up, already corrected that

Well, being the son of a teacher, I can tell you right now that ADD and ADHD do exist, and that it is a true mental disorder steming from a chemical inbalance in the brain.

HOWEVER. There are VERY few severe cases that you hear so often about. And it is true that alot of children are misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD, when perhaps the child is just...being a kid and the parents and educational system cannot handle it.
yeah, what he sad.

i'm a special education instructor, and yes, ADHD is a real thing. And yes, medication is very useful in controling real ADHD. however, the epidemic-like levels of disagnois is caused by several things in no particular order:

1) Undereducated Regular Ed teachers
2) Overtaxed School Psycholgists/Health
3) Overwilling doctors
4) Advertisement by Drug Companies.

this kills speical ed - when you have 5 students who dont' need much help, but are in special ed classrooms, they eat into time for the 2 or 3 people who might really need it.

One other reason thats really scary: If you can classify a kid as SED (special education), then they get more cash. And if pumping a pill in a kid stops it, then the district can pocket that cash. Get them a new football scoreboard, i guess.

It's a problem - thankfully, it's a solvable problem. limit avertisements to those who can actually correctly diagnoise, teach regular ed teachers the diffrence, curtail quick-to-write-a-script doctors, and we can fix this problem.

NOw states just need to get off thier lazy butts.

I figure ADHD is a bit similar to the alien sightings you always hear about.
About %90 of them are basicaly false reports to get attention, with %5 being legitimate mistakes, and the remaining bit being actual real-life honest to God aliens.
Replace all instances of 'aliens' with 'ADHD'.

I wasn't sure what the left thought of these programs, but coming from their posts, I'm more pleased with their common sense (for once).
I voted that this was a PARENT PROBLEM.
I say this as a "quiet passerby" in the stripper-dating world (been a year and a half off).
I've seriously (more than deserved) got involved with two strippers (hot as all living hell's angel's), and both of their children (male, duh) were on Ritalin.
I hated this. I bitched about this enough to offend both women.
These were absent mothers ashamed of the ways their children acted while they were working.

At school, and at hoime.

I want to slap any parent that feeds these DRUGS to their children.

Let them get old enough to decide what drugs to take for themselves, before forcefeeding them.

Please don't generalize all teachers as being unable to handle children. Like I said, ADD and ADHD are real, they are chemical inbalances, but they really only exist in VERY severe forms.

If anything my mother would AGREE with you on kid treatment. She is a HUGE advocate of recess time and makes sure the kids are always doing something with their energy.

So I ask again, please don't generalize teachers as cheerless taskmasters or impatient people.

I wasn't saying that teachers are all cheerless taskmasters. And more recess time would not be the answer either in my opinion. I was thinking more along the lines of a radical reform of publik skools. If I were in charge of reforming our education system (if I believed the government should be involved in education in the first place) I would abolish the schoolhouses where kids sit in rows of chairs like some kind of army or factory, and replace it with "Schools Without Walls" or (my favourite) Montessori education. Maybe both to give parents real choice, unlike that "No Child Left Behind" that our embarrassment of a president is pushing. Both of those education methods stress real life experience, independent learning and following one's own interests, while still in a structured environment. If these methods were used in public education, I am sure ADD and ADHD would almost completely disappear.

I dunno, the drugs worked pretty damn well, it's just that they had serious side effects for me. They work well for some people, but it seems they're the minority.

I can't think of any other method of treatment that would work... I wish I could, though.

Sometimes, I have heard that behavioral modification -- that is, redirecting and retraining ADD and ADHD sufferers in methods on how to concentrate better -- works.

Also, some cases diagnosed as ADD or ADHD seem to be, believe it or not, food allergy triggered. My cousin was placed on the Feingold diet years ago, which basically strips all artificial colors and preservatives out of the diet... and his ability to concentrate and behave improved immeasurably. My girlfriend put her two children on the same diet six months ago and the change in behavior is noticably better.

Looking at the crap my students eat (sugar, salt, fat, and colors that never existed in nature) it's no wonder they are sometimes a bit off the wall.

Sometimes, I have heard that behavioral modification -- that is, redirecting and retraining ADD and ADHD sufferers in methods on how to concentrate better -- works.

Also, some cases diagnosed as ADD or ADHD seem to be, believe it or not, food allergy triggered. My cousin was placed on the Feingold diet years ago, which basically strips all artificial colors and preservatives out of the diet... and his ability to concentrate and behave improved immeasurably. My girlfriend put her two children on the same diet six months ago and the change in behavior is noticably better.

Looking at the crap my students eat (sugar, salt, fat, and colors that never existed in nature) it's no wonder they are sometimes a bit off the wall.
I personaly always thought that our school just recycled all the stuff we threw away and added wax and some colour.
...
Or rats...we had lots of those as well.

I wasn't saying that teachers are all cheerless taskmasters. And more recess time would not be the answer either in my opinion. I was thinking more along the lines of a radical reform of publik skools. If I were in charge of reforming our education system (if I believed the government should be involved in education in the first place) I would abolish the schoolhouses where kids sit in rows of chairs like some kind of army or factory, and replace it with "Schools Without Walls" or (my favourite) Montessori education. Maybe both to give parents real choice, unlike that "No Child Left Behind" that our embarrassment of a president is pushing. Both of those education methods stress real life experience, independent learning and following one's own interests, while still in a structured environment. If these methods were used in public education, I am sure ADD and ADHD would almost completely disappear.

A lot of private schools have found out something that I could've told you when I was 6 years old:

Boys have a different idea of "cool".
Boys learn somewhat differently than those sweet, patient princesses that education technique is based upon.

Sorry, but true, and there will also always be the boy and girl attracted to the other ed style.

All should be obliged. We're the grown ups. We dictate the model.

We should use the one that fits best given the criteria we have.

Sometimes, I have heard that behavioral modification -- that is, redirecting and retraining ADD and ADHD sufferers in methods on how to concentrate better -- works.
I was in counseling from second grade onwards, albeit not fully for this reason, but it was one of the major ones. It hasn't really helped me with much, unfortunately.
Looking at the crap my students eat (sugar, salt, fat, and colors that never existed in nature) it's no wonder they are sometimes a bit off the wall.
Heh, you have a point there. Sometimes I wonder how many preservatives or additives we're using that we don't yet know that they are poisonous or something.

Why the mass diagnosis of ADHD?

Because you make kids sit in desks for 8 hours a day with a 15 minute recess and 30 minute PE. Why could CHILDREN be hyperactive? No idea...

This discounts the fact that it is far more prevalent today than it was thirty years ago.

Also, attitudes on child rearing have changed immeasurably. When my parents were in school, if they said something out of line they could be given lines, or made to stand in the corner. In some circumstances, they might have gotten a rap on the knuckles with the ruler.

Today, do any of those things as a teacher and you'd be up on charges so fast it's not funny.

Do I think hitting a child is appropriate? No. But there certainly were fewer behavioral problems when the attitude was more along the lines of "it is the child's responsibility to behave and to do his work" rather than "it is the teacher's obligation to be the sex educator, the school psychologist, the comedian, and personal tutor to each and every one of his 34 students, making sure each child has at least 6 hours of personalized attention all day every day."

Note that these observations have more to do with children who are NOT truly ADD and ADHD -- those who suffer from those ailments cannot control their behavior so easily and would probably suffer quite a bit in a very strict environment.

I was in counseling from second grade onwards, albeit not fully for this reason, but it was one of the major ones. It hasn't really helped me with much, unfortunately.

Heh, you have a point there. Sometimes I wonder how many preservatives or additives we're using that we don't yet know that they are poisonous or something.
Neo, I looked at this statement and got sick, thinking of low-paid governement singling u out as an individualist.
I know I wasn't there, but...

I don't like the idea, when it comes to such a gifted sweetie.

Sorry, for some of the dicks along the way.

I wonder, what are the numbers on ADD/ADHD in civilized europe and canada?

Unless I miss my guess entirely, Neo_Anarchists accepts that s/he really does have this condition, and it is not a misdiagnosis in this case.

Unless I miss my guess entirely, Neo_Anarchists accepts that s/he really does have this condition, and it is not a misdiagnosis in this case.
Your guess was spot-on.

EDIT:
I'm a she, for future reference.

I don't think ADHD can be objectively classified as a disorder - more of a deviation from the norm. It's more of a personality trait than anything else, really, and it's not clear-cut. It's not as if you "have it" or "don't have it." Everyone has it in some quantity.

I have inattentive type ADD - which means I have a definite tendency to drift off in class, not write anything down because it just doesn't occur to me, and generally have a horrible time trying to stay organized. But I think ADD people are gifted in some ways, too. I think education is moving away from rote and repetition and discipline, towards other methods that would probably suit ADD kids better, but right now it's getting worse (i.e. more kids are being diagnosed with ADD) before it gets better, because giving kids more freedom means the little bit of ADD in everyone is surfacing. I don't know where it will go next, or even where it should go. I wish ADD kids would be accepted as "normal", and I wish the education system were more suited to our style of learning. But even more than that, I wish I actually were normal. Would more discipline in my childhood have made me less ADD? Would my attention problems not have surfaced because they weren't allowed to? I don't know.

I'm a she, for future reference.

I thought I remembered that, but figured I'd rather be overly cautious than inadvertently offend. :)

Hell I grew up with it. When I was diagnosed it was still ADD. I used to take Riddilin when I was a kid (up until I started 9th grade) because that stuff does bad things to you. It kills your appetite and makes you depressed and what not. So I went off it and throughout HS it was fine. But recently in the past few years (maybe 2 or so) of college it has come back. Sometimes it's bad, I'll have to listen to music, talk online, on the phone, watch TV, and do something else just to keep my mind occupied. It's tough taking tests I'll say that.

But bad parenting? Nope. I would defend that to the death. My parents couldn't have BEEN better parents. It's just the luck of the draw. Only thing you can do is, as you mature, control it yourself. Take some responsibility and don't blame parents or some disorder bullshit. Just be a man/woman and get it under control. To hell with the medicine, that stuff does things to you that you wish never came.

It can be controlled, just takes effort & responsibility, something my generation lacks, unfortunately.

I have ADD. The H is only added if you are also hyperactive.
It's really wierd. Think of it this way. Have you ever looked at no specific thing, to the point where everything goes out of focus, and it all looks kind of fuzzy and indistinct. That's what ADD is like. I can focus on a lot of things at once, but I can't usually put all my focus on one thing.

I have ADD. The H is only added if you are also hyperactive.
It's really wierd. Think of it this way. Have you ever looked at no specific thing, to the point where everything goes out of focus, and it all looks kind of fuzzy and indistinct. That's what ADD is like. I can focus on a lot of things at once, but I can't usually put all my focus on one thing.
That's actually a fairly good way of putting it simply. I've been trying to figure out an easy way to explain it for a long time. Seems you beat me to it!
:p

That is a pretty good description, although I tend to be able to focus on things a great deal. Such as acting on stage, or writing, or playing video games. But for every else, that very, very accurate.

Like any psychological problem, drugs should be saved for a last desperate measure.

Most of this stuff can be dealt with without chemicals, if people just help each other.

I myself was lucky to just have a damned strong will, despite having Bipolar disorder. I can still get really screwed up by surprises, but in general, I've learned to ride the highs and lows without actualling reacting to them. If I'm having a wonderful day, but feel like I want to die, I just sneer at the chemicals.

Others I've seen will make it worse by freaking out about it and getting anti-placebo on themselves.

ADHD and such will often just require a different environment.

I have ADD. The H is only added if you are also hyperactive.
It's really wierd. Think of it this way. Have you ever looked at no specific thing, to the point where everything goes out of focus, and it all looks kind of fuzzy and indistinct. That's what ADD is like. I can focus on a lot of things at once, but I can't usually put all my focus on one thing.

Yep. Makes it really annoying to do work in class when people are chatting in two different places nearbye, or if there's a sound going on. Or if you have a stray hair that keeps getting in your eyes. Or you arm itches. Or you're thirsty... Also used to walk around school or town with my eyes unfocused, which was interesting. Haven't been diagnosed, myself, though. My disorders are all very low key. Now, one of my former neighbors... she would do things like buy horses, and get bored with them in a few months.

The problem is both: Children are babysat by the tv too much and are sensory system becomes overloaded. These children's brains are unable to properly develop thus causing these neurological problems. Some of these children also use this as a crutch to get away with everything. It is true that many of these children are not disciplined by their parents, but is this really a recent phenomena? I am sure that there have been generations of parents who don't give a dime for their kids.

It may be "legit", but the idea of treating it with drugs is stupid.

i have to dissagree. as a sufferer of ADHD i find it nearly imposible to function as an average person....

I have inattentive type ADD - which means I have a definite tendency to drift off in class, not write anything down because it just doesn't occur to me, and generally have a horrible time trying to stay organized. But I think ADD people are gifted in some ways, too. I think education is moving away from rote and repetition and discipline, towards other methods that would probably suit ADD kids better, but right now it's getting worse (i.e. more kids are being diagnosed with ADD) before it gets better, because giving kids more freedom means the little bit of ADD in everyone is surfacing. I don't know where it will go next, or even where it should go. I wish ADD kids would be accepted as "normal", and I wish the education system were more suited to our style of learning. But even more than that, I wish I actually were normal. Would more discipline in my childhood have made me less ADD? Would my attention problems not have surfaced because they weren't allowed to? I don't know.

...and Misspadfootland, i couldent agree more. it seems with the "discovery" of ADD and ADHD, docters and educators are 'diagnosing' more and more children as having one of the two. However, are they truly afflicted with some form of them or are they simply hyper kids whom doctors would like to lable and medicate for the sake of medication? I feel a generalized answer does the children and the situation injustice.

I think that ADD and ADHD can be treated with dietary changes and not necessarily drugs. What do you all think?

I think that ADD and ADHD can be treated with dietary changes and not necessarily drugs. What do you all think?
What sort of "dietary changes" are you tlaking about?

Depends on the person. for example, my fiancees brother had difficulty focusing on day to day tasks, once his family took his brother off milk products, he settled down and was not hyper. They also fed him peanut butter whenever he started acting up which helped calm him down. He was never diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, but he was able to function better with these simple dietary changes, all without the use of meds.

A lot of private schools have found out something that I could've told you when I was 6 years old:

Boys have a different idea of "cool".
Boys learn somewhat differently than those sweet, patient princesses that education technique is based upon.

Sorry, but true, and there will also always be the boy and girl attracted to the other ed style.

All should be obliged. We're the grown ups. We dictate the model.

We should use the one that fits best given the criteria we have.

A few places have been experimenting with seperating male and female students. Preliminary reports indicate that both sexes do better when seperated. They are less distracted and benefit from classes designed for their different learning styles. Boys need more activity and instructor attention. Girls are quieter, but are frequently shy about classroom interaction in mixed classes, since they are less agressive.

Its heartening and enlightening to read about others discuss their struggles with ADD/ADHD in this thread. I too have ADD/ADHD.

Before making other comments, I'll post the following.

Like other psychological (and medical) conditions, ADD/ADHD does not cause the same symptoms in everyone. The diagnostic criteria (as set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV) are:

A. Either (1) or (2)

(1) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.

(2) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level.

Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected.
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness).
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly.
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
(f) often talks excessively.

Impulsivity
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn.
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

Code based on type:

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Combined Type: if both Criteria A1 and A2 are met for the past 6 months.

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if Criterion A1 is met but Criteria A2 is not met for the past 6 months.

Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criteria A2 is met but Criterion A1 is not met for the past 6 months.

Basically a parental disorder, which leads to a range of abnormalties, like eating junk food, getting all the wrong chemicals into the body, not enough exercise, and therefore ADHD.

Its heartening and enlightening to read about others discuss their struggles with ADD/ADHD in this thread. I too have ADD/ADHD.

Before making other comments, I'll post the following.

Like other psychological (and medical) conditions, ADD/ADHD does not cause the same symptoms in everyone. The diagnostic criteria (as set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV) are:

A. Either (1) or (2)

(1) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.

(2) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level.

Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected.
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness).
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly.
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
(f) often talks excessively.

Impulsivity
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn.
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

Code based on type:

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Combined Type: if both Criteria A1 and A2 are met for the past 6 months.

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if Criterion A1 is met but Criteria A2 is not met for the past 6 months.

Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criteria A2 is met but Criterion A1 is not met for the past 6 months.



I wouldn't call this a disorder, quite the opposite - a normal child.

It might help, to watch less TV or Video and get less signals into the child it cannot process. Going to bed at 7p.m. is a good idea until 6 years, then it can be relaxed to let's say 8pm until 10 years, 10pm until 14 years.

Breakfast at home every day is another good idea.

Just as a snack prepared by parents and taken to school.

I wouldn't say it's a parental problem. But I do think it's being treated in pretty much the same way clinical depression is - doctors and professionals providing quick-fix drugs that DON'T treat the root of the problem at all (hell, often it turns out that it was actually the child's diet causing most of the problems...), but that simply cover up the symptoms. If you're going to that you might as well just give the poor tykes tranquilizers :rolleyes:

So while I think 'ADHD' exists as a real, psychological disorder, I don't agree that the answer is to pump every child that's hyperactive with drugs. That's just stupid.

My ADD is the inattentive type. I never took medication for it and was an adult before diagnosed. I runs in my family and I have a neice and nephew on medication for it. While I agree that sometimes medication is necessary, I think it should only be used after other methods have failed to bring improvement. A lot of problems it causes can be managed by learning various coping strategies.
When I managed an optical store, I had to write everything down. My organizer was absolutely necessary to function. I'd forget the simplest most mundane, and frequently important tasks if I didn't keep it in the organizer.
It was also absolutely necessary for school. The first time I started college I didn't have one and constantly forgot assignments. Ten years later it was much easier with the organizer.

There are a lot of strategies to make living with ADD easier to manage. I think most people can keep things under control with these and forgo the drugs.

This discounts the fact that it is far more prevalent today than it was thirty years ago.

Also, attitudes on child rearing have changed immeasurably. When my parents were in school, if they said something out of line they could be given lines, or made to stand in the corner. In some circumstances, they might have gotten a rap on the knuckles with the ruler.

*snip*

Note that these observations have more to do with children who are NOT truly ADD and ADHD -- those who suffer from those ailments cannot control their behavior so easily and would probably suffer quite a bit in a very strict environment.

I went to school thirty years ago. There was no concept of any such thing as ADD or ADHD. What you had were a few problem kids in each year. One or two percent, no more than that.

Teachers had the means by which they could punish bad behaviour and this seemed to work for most cases of antisocial activity. Lack of attention and lack of work resulted in your parents being summoned to the school to be told how you were failing. This was something that everyone feared. Now, I am not sure that this would accomplish anything in some cases.

Yes there were a few, very few cases where the behaviour was uncontolable by these methods. The kids who suffered like this were referred to child psychiatrists. As I understand some 70 to 80% of these cases were resolved by diet change; refined sugar and/or stimulants such as tartrazine being eliminated. The remaining few were a genuine problem that there was no real treatment for.

So it appears from my experience that ADD and ADHD are real problems and not just a lack of discipline on the part of the parents (optional) and the schools (enforced). However the level of occurance implies that either our diet is seriously messed up or it is used as an excuse by some to avoid their responsabilities as a parent. I believe that both of these contribute to the apparent epidemic.

Especially all the shitty ones they assign for reading at school. I will give them a list of books that don't suck and they can assign those.

All books by Jane Eyre or her sister are EXCLUDED.

Who's Jane Eyre's sister?

My ADD is the inattentive type. I never took medication for it and was an adult before diagnosed. I runs in my family and I have a neice and nephew on medication for it. While I agree that sometimes medication is necessary, I think it should only be used after other methods have failed to bring improvement. A lot of problems it causes can be managed by learning various coping strategies.
When I managed an optical store, I had to write everything down. My organizer was absolutely necessary to function. I'd forget the simplest most mundane, and frequently important tasks if I didn't keep it in the organizer.
It was also absolutely necessary for school. The first time I started college I didn't have one and constantly forgot assignments. Ten years later it was much easier with the organizer.

There are a lot of strategies to make living with ADD easier to manage. I think most people can keep things under control with these and forgo the drugs.

Bitchkitten appears to have hit the nail on the head here. Whether ADD and ADHD are labels for psychological disorders or parenting problems, or genetic inheritance or just something that is one of those differences between some people and others isn't so relevant.

What is relevant is that some people have come ways of being that can be labelled ADD and ADHD. And also that there are things you can do, if you are in some of these ways, to make your life better.

"Get an organiser, make notes, use a diary" aren't exactly medical interventions, nor are they revolutionary ideas. Lots of people use diaries.

Well gee guys, since they can map the brain of children with this disorder, how on earth can you blame the parent? Look it up before you make stupid polls like this! Sheesh!

I think a lot of psychological problems being treated now by medication can be handled other ways. A lot of them may not be so far into a spectrum of "ill" as to need medication.

Lets say that the difficulty paying attention is on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 means you have no difficulty. Very few people would be there. Maybe most people would be about 3. Someone who desperately needs medication might be a 9 or 10. Some one who definitely has a problem might be a 7. At what point do you start medicating?

A lot of personality disorders could be worked out similiarly. How far out of the norm do you have to be before it becomes an unmanagable problem? Maybe if we just accepted that some people function differently we wouldn't medicalize everything.

everything is a disorder according to the bleeding heart liberals.

everything is a disorder according to the bleeding heart liberals.

Including you.

Who's Jane Eyre's sister?
Might want to read a few posts down where we resolved that

My parents have 3 kids. One has her masters degree and is a teacher. One is me (and I am a damn smart guy, just ask me). One is my little brother, who has ADD, ADHD, and ADND. It's a chemical imbalance the same way that depression or bipolar disorder is. It's also over and misdiagnosed the same way that depression and bipolar disorder are.

It is a real disorder. It is not caused by bad parenting. It can however be misdiagnosed because parents refuse to discipline their children.

I wouldn't call this a disorder, quite the opposite - a normal child.

It might help, to watch less TV or Video and get less signals into the child it cannot process. Going to bed at 7p.m. is a good idea until 6 years, then it can be relaxed to let's say 8pm until 10 years, 10pm until 14 years.

Breakfast at home every day is another good idea.

Just as a snack prepared by parents and taken to school.


Read the criteria a little more carefully. Properly applied, they specifically exclude a "normal child."

First, the individual must suffer from 6 or more of the A1 or A2 criteria for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level. To be clear, this means each of the symptoms must be to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with development level.

Second, the A1 and A2 criteria are qualified by the term "often" to further require that the behavior be pervasive, rather than occasional.

Third, impairment from these symptoms must be present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

Fourth, there must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

I don't like the medicine, only because of the way its looked upon. I use this example:
If a man loses both his legs in an accident, and manages to train and work hard and run a 2 minute half mile with the use of artifical limbs, everyone admires him for grit.
If a kid with ADD wins a full tution scholarship to a college, everyone is amazed at how effective the medicine is.

I have ADD. I told one of the guys at my college that I had it... and he scoffed at said "what BS." I thought, everyone's going to be like him-- I wish I had schizophrenia or kleptomania instead...

So back to your question. I'm 16, and I have excellent discipline, excellent parenting. They do not give me "the run of the house," as you put it. Actually, it's nearly the opposite. It's not totally strict, but they're very good parents, and they keep a close eye on me. I believe ADD and ADHD are natural chemical occurances which can be healed, just like any other "disease."

It is a little more than a parental disorder. Brain wave patterns do become altered from the norm in most "ADHD" kids, but the use of Neurofeedback has made it pretty clear that it is a learned behavior/though pattern that can be correct without medication. Once it is in place it is a very real problem and becomes a habitual thought process that most children don't have the capacity to change without significant changes in environment and parenting.

At least that is my opinion as someone trained in the field. There is much debate/disagreement, however on the subject, but mostly supported by pharmacutical companies that want to promote drug sales and therapist that are afraid to hold anyone (parents mostly in this case) responsible for their behavior.

I believe there is ADD or whatever you want to call it. However I am positive it is way, way overdiagnosed. And if you start raising your kids in an environment that pretty much teaches you, "if you have difficulty focusing, here, take these pills. You are a helpless victim of disorder. You are absolved of trying to focus since you are just inflicted with a shocking disease."

I mean, this whole SOCIETY is becoming more fast-paced, less focused, that includes children as well. Pretty soon anyone who is awake and trying to live "has ADD."

And psychology is a soft science, especially psychiatry and especially at schools. Whereas children are smart. How many kids do you know can fake ADD to get some pills and attention? I could have. I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean a giant portion of those who currently are said to possess ADD wouldn't.

It's really the same all around... depression, mood/personality disorders, eating disorders... getting yourself a 'disorder' is a wonderful way to get better treatment for your ego. All too often I see that in social circles it is actually a POSITIVE thing to have a diagnosis or better yet, prescription for some psych disorder. Alarming, disturbing, sad.

Well gee guys, since they can map the brain of children with this disorder, how on earth can you blame the parent? Look it up before you make stupid polls like this! Sheesh!

I don't think that anyone has said that it flat does not exist. (There may be an idiot who said this and I ignored the post, however). The discussion is more about how often it is incorrectly diagnosed or used as an excuse. In these cases, where does the blame lie?

I have ADHD. I'm not some misdiagnosis, not a result of bad parenting. ADD and ADHD are real disorders, I have friends who also have ADHD, as well as my father. The problem is that the syptoms of ADD and ADHD can be caused by other things, and so it is, I am sure, far to often diagnosed for people whose problems are caused by other things, diet, lack of exercise, parenting or what have you. It is real , but it is not as common as it is made to appear.

I applaud all the people out there who have found other ways to cope, but I am useless without my medication. I recognize the problem, but still, despite my best efforts, find it nearly impossible to concentrate or control my behavior. The difference,between my behavior when medicated and when not, is really quite staggering. Some people really do need the drugs to function. I am one of them.

Does having ADHD make me stupid? No, I have an IQ above 150 and consistantly get high grades. Is it all because of the medication? I can honestly say that I would not be where I am today without it. My grades rose dramatically once I started taking ritalin.

There are many people out there who are misdiagnosed. But there are many of us who do have an actual problem. ADHD is real, I have it.

I've been diagnosed with ADHD, and it has absolutely nothing to do with my upbringing. I don't believe it is an actually disorder, but a mindset brought upon us by the brain washing public school system.

(Hooray for conspiracy theories! :p )

Mighty Khan, you are absolute right. My little brother has ADHD and it is certainly not bad parenting. Absolutely not. My parents had been quite stern in earlier times (funny, when I think back now that I'm adult) and they always thought my brother was just a bad kid. Until, when he was teenager, ADHD was diagnosticed. By that time, the additude of my parents had changed to and they tried to help my brother in his illness. For example, he cannot concentrate under stress (therefore he failed in every test), even tough he is highly intelligent. He also gets sick because of stress (colitis) which makes matters worse. And to make it even more worse, he now doesn't find a job, because he failed totally in school (being in stress all the time and not able to concentrate), despite his high intelligence.

Anyone saying that ADHD is because of the failure of the parents is slapping me, my brother and my family into the face and everyone else who really suffers from this illness. It is very hard for the children and the parents, believe me and it is neither the children nor the parents fault.

Personally, I have a minor form of ADD. Everyone in my family has. I never had the problems my brother had, tough, but sometimes, espescially when I drank to much, it shows.

"Get an organiser, make notes, use a diary" aren't exactly medical interventions, nor are they revolutionary ideas. Lots of people use diaries.

Don't you think we told that my brother all the time? He even forgot to do that.

Don't you think we told that my brother all the time? He even forgot to do that.

Yeah, see that was my problem. I actually have a ridiculously high IQ, but I have problems with organization, memory, and... uh... (I like the smilies!) Where was I? Oh, yeah, attention span. That's why I ended up homeschooling.

Yeah, see that was my problem. I actually have a ridiculously high IQ, but I have problems with organization, memory, and... uh... (I like the smilies!) Where was I? Oh, yeah, attention span. That's why I ended up homeschooling.

Could be my brother talking. Only that he will never get to homeschooling with his grades... Realistically, he doesn't stand a chance at all.

I have ADHD. I'm not some misdiagnosis, not a result of bad parenting. ADD and ADHD are real disorders, I have friends who also have ADHD, as well as my father. The problem is that the syptoms of ADD and ADHD can be caused by other things, and so it is, I am sure, far to often diagnosed for people whose problems are caused by other things, diet, lack of exercise, parenting or what have you. It is real , but it is not as common as it is made to appear.

I applaud all the people out there who have found other ways to cope, but I am useless without my medication. I recognize the problem, but still, despite my best efforts, find it nearly impossible to concentrate or control my behavior. The difference,between my behavior when medicated and when not, is really quite staggering. Some people really do need the drugs to function. I am one of them.

Does having ADHD make me stupid? No, I have an IQ above 150 and consistantly get high grades. Is it all because of the medication? I can honestly say that I would not be where I am today without it. My grades rose dramatically once I started taking ritalin.

There are many people out there who are misdiagnosed. But there are many of us who do have an actual problem. ADHD is real, I have it.

Since you are obviously so intelligent, you should consider "neurofeedback", you might be able to cure yourself, with the help of a trained professional of course.

I love how those of you without ADD/ADHD are quick to advise those of us with the disorder about how to cope with it or treat it.

Because the intelligence of those who admit to psychological problems appears to get questioned (in addition to here there is a whole other thread saying we should be prevented from breeding), I am a highly successful professional. [snipped some personal information I probably shouldn't have posted] Six figure income. Not bragging.

I was not diagnosed with any psychological disorder until I was in my 20s. I had been an underachiever in high school and my college grades were a roller coaster As to Fs.

With the proper treatment -- YES, prescription drugs!!! -- I do very well. I still have problems with focus, organization, overfocus, etc, but I can cope. Without proper treatment, I am a mess. I will note that ADD/ADHD can have its upsides at times: multi-tasking, hyperfocus on a project, etc.

And before you suggest it, I've tried a wide range of treatments. Multiple different psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapist to find ones able to help. I've tried many holistic treatments. Dietary changes. Accupuncture. Neurofeedback. Biofeedback. I'm not sure what else off the top of my head. Diet, exercise, a good sleep pattern are all very helpful. But the right medications are essential.

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

That would make you the exception rather than the rule. The General Practicioners and Psychiatrists in this area seem to be in love with the diagnosis. It is very much like Schizophrenia 35 years ago and MPD 20 years ago and recovered/repressed memory 15 years ago and Bi-polar/Manic Depressive Disorder(depends on which version of the DSM you learned) 10 years ago. There are people that have those disorders there are just a lot more who are diagnosed that don't, though "recovered memory" and MPD at least in the stereotypical sense are questionable diagnosis at all times IMO.

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

All I have found so far on statistics for this is this page (http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/issues148a.shtml) which traces the rate of diagnosis and prescription. Identifying how much of this 311% increae in 5 years is over diagnosis is going to be almost impossible. But the explosive growth in prescription of the medicines does indicate a chnge in attitude somewhere.

I believe there is ADD or whatever you want to call it. However I am positive it is way, way overdiagnosed. And if you start raising your kids in an environment that pretty much teaches you, "if you have difficulty focusing, here, take these pills. You are a helpless victim of disorder. You are absolved of trying to focus since you are just inflicted with a shocking disease."

I mean, this whole SOCIETY is becoming more fast-paced, less focused, that includes children as well. Pretty soon anyone who is awake and trying to live "has ADD."

And psychology is a soft science, especially psychiatry and especially at schools. Whereas children are smart. How many kids do you know can fake ADD to get some pills and attention? I could have. I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean a giant portion of those who currently are said to possess ADD wouldn't.

It's really the same all around... depression, mood/personality disorders, eating disorders... getting yourself a 'disorder' is a wonderful way to get better treatment for your ego. All too often I see that in social circles it is actually a POSITIVE thing to have a diagnosis or better yet, prescription for some psych disorder. Alarming, disturbing, sad.

Fake a mental illness to get pills? Are you serious?

Mental illness as an ego boost? Yeah, its a real hoot to have depression or bi-polar disorder or to be bulimic. Anti-depressants are sooo fun to take too!

Try visiting any mental hospital. Party central. I don't mean like State institutions. Just places where people may be checked in for a day or two or get treated on an outpatient basis. Those people are definitely there for the status. :rolleyes:

So, what are your thoughts. In my opinion, most things labeled ADHD are the result of a parent that doesn;t discipline their child. While growing up, i know kids who toll ritalin and straterra and adderol 9and other medicines of their ilk). When they were home, their parents let them have the run of the house. that;s not right. alot of the times, paretns don't want to deal with their kids so they cart them off to therapists, when the real proble is theirselves.

Is it jsut me, or is the next generation gonna become mindless robots?

I take it you don't suffer from ADHD! I do! I've suffered with it for the last several years. Don't get me started otherwise you won't be able to shut me up. Rediline didn't work for me and I NEVER HAD THE RUN OF THE HOUSE!!!! My parents dealt with me and punished me when I did wrong. Yea I saw councilors but they didn't do much. And my parents WERE NOT the problem. So shut up unless you yourself have it.

Fake a mental illness to get pills? Are you serious?

Mental illness as an ego boost? Yeah, its a real hoot to have depression or bi-polar disorder or to be bulimic. Anti-depressants are sooo fun to take too!

Try visiting any mental hospital. Party central. I don't mean like State institutions. Just places where people may be checked in for a day or two or get treated on an outpatient basis. Those people are definitely there for the status. :rolleyes:

You'd be surpised how many people try to get themselves admitted and or to get a hold of prescription meds. I work for a community mental health center, incase you were wondering. I see it happen rather frequently.

Please note, I'm not saying that all diagnosis are inaccurate or that everyone that comes here wants to or enjoys it, but there are many that do.

Fake a mental illness to get pills? Are you serious?
Actually...
I've had the displeasure of knowing a few kids that did just that, to get their hands on either painkillers or amphetamines.
Then again, I know messed up people...

W00t! First vote!

But really, I think it's a problem with diagnosis and definition. The idea that just because a child is hyper and can't pay attention that it is a good reason to pump them with drugs is bullshit. Maybe it's a problem with the school system and the way teachers teach? There are a number of causes, but it is not a disease or disorder.

Oh its very much a disorder. I have ADHD. Its been proven that I have ADHD. Don't tell me its NOT a disorder. There are also various forms of ADD/ADHD. Mine was more behavioral than education.

I know. They (my former elementary school) tried to tell my parents I had ADD. They took me to a psychiatrist, and said that it was because I wasn't being challenged enough and I knew most of the stuff from the year (grade 2). I didn't get skipped ahead (it was half way through the year), but I got a special thing of grade 3 work. /Anecote

I got bored with school very fast because I wasn't being challenged. Didn't help matters much that I moved in 3rd grade and was ahead of my 3rd grade class. That was when I was diagnosed with ADD. I have sense been diagonst with ADHD.

I think you left out social problem, ADHD seems to be the product of the MTV era. Even news stations are jumping on the bandwagon. With all those flashy screens, how can you expect a kid to sit through a book?

Dude, I don't watch MTV and I have ADHD. That blows that theory out of the water.

According to some test I took, I've got adult add or some shit.

If I actually do, I would prefer therapy to drugs though.

Well, being the son of a teacher, I can tell you right now that ADD and ADHD do exist, and that it is a true mental disorder steming from a chemical inbalance in the brain.

Thank You! You are absolutely right Bolol

HOWEVER. There are VERY few severe cases that you hear so often about. And it is true that alot of children are misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD, when perhaps the child is just...being a kid and the parents and educational system cannot handle it.

Correctemundo.

I think it's a real disorder, but very highly overdiagnosed.

Example: I can never concentrate in math class. Does this mean I have ADHD? No, it means listening to hour-long lectures from a balding fat man is boring, and hitting on the girl next to me in a low-cut blouse is a bit more appealing.

Obviously there are cases where ADHD really exists, but these are rare. Putting normal kids on ritalin when they don't need it is wrong.

Fake a mental illness to get pills? Are you serious?


Yep. As pointed out people do that. Sorry if it shocks you.


Mental illness as an ego boost? Yeah, its a real hoot to have depression or bi-polar disorder or to be bulimic. Anti-depressants are sooo fun to take too!

Ego boost does not equal "hoot." Nor did I say that *actually* possessing a genuine disorder was an ego boost.

The attention

Try visiting any mental hospital. Party central. I don't mean like State institutions. Just places where people may be checked in for a day or two or get treated on an outpatient basis. Those people are definitely there for the status. :rolleyes:

Many of them are. Not all.

If it seems ridiculous, the world is ridiculous! and so are people! and so are most people's 'mental health concerns.'

I would say it is neither legitimate nor a parenting problem. It is mostly a teacher problem, but also a psychiatry problem and a pharmaceutical industry problem.

You sir, are an Idiot. it is very much legimate. I suggest you look it up.

Dude, I don't watch MTV and I have ADHD. That blows that theory out of the water.

Not at all! He said it was the product of the "MTV era." Whether you personally watch MTV or not is completely irrelevant.

BTW Do you also not watch ANY TV?

I think another problem is the streotypes of ADD kids. I've overheard teachers bitching about a student spitting on the floor, and excusing it as ADD and his medication wore off.
Christ, I have ADD, and I would NEVER do that. And medication does not equal good manners pills. And that's my rant.

And a good rant it is. Medication never worked for me. Infact, had the opposite effect. Made me MORE hyper than I was. You didn't want to be around me when I am having an ADHD day. It isn't pretty. Thank God I haven't had one in awhile.

I can't belive 50% of these assholes said it was a REAL disorder.

It's shitty parents, stupid kids, a greedy drug companies.

You'd be surpised how many people try to get themselves admitted and or to get a hold of prescription meds. I work for a community mental health center, incase you were wondering. I see it happen rather frequently.

Please note, I'm not saying that all diagnosis are inaccurate or that everyone that comes here wants to or enjoys it, but there are many that do.

OK. Good point. Of course seeking meds from a mental health center is a little different than seeking admission because its "cool" to be mentally ill.

A further eality check. People fake a wide range of medical conditions in order to get medications. Pain medication is by far the most common. Vicodin for example.

Some meds for mental illness have a potential for abuse and/or street use. Many do not. Effexor isn't exactly a great "high"

As a mental health professional, I'm sure you can agree that the number of people who are drug-seeking are far outnumbered by those that are truly troubled.

Finally, overdiagnosis and overmedication is not a problem limited to mental illness. Antibiotics are way overprescribed. There is a push to make Oxycodone unavailable. Having just tried to Google ADD and overdiagnosis, I turned up a bunch of hits on overdiagnosis of a host of physical illnesses.

Hell I grew up with it. When I was diagnosed it was still ADD. I used to take Riddilin when I was a kid (up until I started 9th grade) because that stuff does bad things to you. It kills your appetite and makes you depressed and what not. So I went off it and throughout HS it was fine. But recently in the past few years (maybe 2 or so) of college it has come back. Sometimes it's bad, I'll have to listen to music, talk online, on the phone, watch TV, and do something else just to keep my mind occupied. It's tough taking tests I'll say that.

I found I have that problem myself. If I have nothing to do, I go absolutely nuts. More nuts than normal. Test taking is a pain especially if its an easy one and your mind works faster than your hands, it becomes a problem. I know! I think that is half my problem taking tests in classes like math and economics.

But bad parenting? Nope. I would defend that to the death. My parents couldn't have BEEN better parents. It's just the luck of the draw. Only thing you can do is, as you mature, control it yourself. Take some responsibility and don't blame parents or some disorder bullshit. Just be a man/woman and get it under control. To hell with the medicine, that stuff does things to you that you wish never came.

Here here. Couldn't have said it better myself :)

It can be controlled, just takes effort & responsibility, something my generation lacks, unfortunately.

Regrettably I agree.

Hell I grew up with it. When I was diagnosed it was still ADD. I used to take Riddilin when I was a kid (up until I started 9th grade) because that stuff does bad things to you. It kills your appetite and makes you depressed and what not. So I went off it and throughout HS it was fine. But recently in the past few years (maybe 2 or so) of college it has come back. Sometimes it's bad, I'll have to listen to music, talk online, on the phone, watch TV, and do something else just to keep my mind occupied. It's tough taking tests I'll say that.

I found I have that problem myself. If I have nothing to do, I go absolutely nuts. More nuts than normal. Test taking is a pain especially if its an easy one and your mind works faster than your hands, it becomes a problem. I know! I think that is half my problem taking tests in classes like math and economics.

But bad parenting? Nope. I would defend that to the death. My parents couldn't have BEEN better parents. It's just the luck of the draw. Only thing you can do is, as you mature, control it yourself. Take some responsibility and don't blame parents or some disorder bullshit. Just be a man/woman and get it under control. To hell with the medicine, that stuff does things to you that you wish never came.

Here here. Couldn't have said it better myself :)

It can be controlled, just takes effort & responsibility, something my generation lacks, unfortunately.

Regrettably I agree.

According to some test I took, I've got adult add or some shit.

If I actually do, I would prefer therapy to drugs though.


Well, quite often there's not much of a choice. Different things work for different people.

I think that ADD and ADHD can be treated with dietary changes and not necessarily drugs. What do you all think?

I think your a class A Fool is what I think

I wouldn't call this a disorder, quite the opposite - a normal child.

It might help, to watch less TV or Video and get less signals into the child it cannot process. Going to bed at 7p.m. is a good idea until 6 years, then it can be relaxed to let's say 8pm until 10 years, 10pm until 14 years.

Breakfast at home every day is another good idea.

Just as a snack prepared by parents and taken to school.

And you sir need to research. The stuff you quoted is correct. I have those symptoms of being ADHD! I have been diagnost with ADHD. I AM NOT a normal person.

I have ADD. I told one of the guys at my college that I had it... and he scoffed at said "what BS." I thought, everyone's going to be like him-- I wish I had schizophrenia or kleptomania instead...

So back to your question. I'm 16, and I have excellent discipline, excellent parenting. They do not give me "the run of the house," as you put it. Actually, it's nearly the opposite. It's not totally strict, but they're very good parents, and they keep a close eye on me. I believe ADD and ADHD are natural chemical occurances which can be healed, just like any other "disease."

^^This was me as well.

Yeah, see that was my problem. I actually have a ridiculously high IQ, but I have problems with organization, memory, and... uh... (I like the smilies!) Where was I? Oh, yeah, attention span. That's why I ended up homeschooling.

Homeschooled myself here :)

Dude, I don't watch MTV and I have ADHD. That blows that theory out of the water.

Yes, but you are a dumbass, which makes it even more severe.

ADD is just an excuse for kids who are too lazy, or too stupid to do their work.

Not at all! He said it was the product of the "MTV era." Whether you personally watch MTV or not is completely irrelevant.

BTW Do you also not watch ANY TV?

Oh I watch it. Just not the junk that they show on TV these days.

I can't belive 50% of these assholes said it was a REAL disorder.

It's shitty parents, stupid kids, a greedy drug companies.

Are you calling me an asshole? I have it you son of a bitch. I have ADHD don't tell me it ISN"T a real disorder.

Yes, but you are a dumbass, which makes it even more severe.

ADD is just an excuse for kids who are too lazy, or too stupid to do their work.


How the hell do you get out of work by having ADD?

Yes, but you are a dumbass, which makes it even more severe.

ADD is just an excuse for kids who are too lazy, or too stupid to do their work.

I don't have ADD! I have ADHD! Bit of a difference. And yes it is a REAL DISORDER!!! I am not lazy. Just the opposite. I played Baseball, basketball, Ran track AND Cross Country. I am as active as I have ever been and I have ADHD.

You sir are a complete dumbass for not believing that ADHD actually exists.

How the hell do you get out of work by having ADD?

You don't Randar!!

This moron doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about.

It may be "legit", but the idea of treating it with drugs is stupid.
No it isn't Research has shown that ADHD can be caused by a lack of activity and decreased blood flow in the frontal lobes. Studies such as a study done in 1995 by kendall and Hammen showed that ADHD could be caused by our genes.
More facts about ADHD. It is (according to the DSM - IV, what is used to diagnose many mental illnesses)
Internationally recognised
Medical
Inherited
Very common
Genuine
It has been classified as a mental illness since 1987.
Ritalin is the drug most commonly used to treat ADHD and is has been shown to be 90 - 95% effective indicating that ADHD has a neurobiological component.

In case you are wondering how i know all this i study psychology at the moment and had to give a presentation on it! Lol! It's weird being able to use knowledge i learnt in real life situation!

By the way! Hello! I'm new here and I'm Jayne!!!

Yes, but you are a dumbass, which makes it even more severe.

ADD is just an excuse for kids who are too lazy, or too stupid to do their work.

HAHA! agreed. ADHD=total bullshit. it's hard for me to concentrate on stuff, but i don't pass it off as some half-assed disorder. take responsibility for your laziness, or figure out a way to beat the system.

HAHA! agreed. ADHD=total bullshit. it's hard for me to concentrate on stuff, but i don't pass it off as some half-assed disorder. take responsibility for your laziness, or figure out a way to beat the system.

So you think it isn't real too eh? I have ADHD and I never blamed my wrongdoing on it.! I have always taken responsiblity for my actions but yet I have ADHD!

Congratulations on making yourself look like a fool.

No it isn't Research has shown that ADHD can be caused by a lack of activity and decreased blood flow in the frontal lobes. Studies such as a study done in 1995 by kendall and Hammen showed that ADHD could be caused by our genes.
More facts about ADHD. It is (according to the DSM - IV, what is used to diagnose many mental illnesses)
Internationally recognised
Medical
Inherited
Very common
Genuine
It has been classified as a mental illness since 1987.
Ritalin is the drug most commonly used to treat ADHD and is has been shown to be 90 - 95% effective indicating that ADHD has a neurobiological component.

In case you are wondering how i know all this i study psychology at the moment and had to give a presentation on it! Lol! It's weird being able to use knowledge i learnt in real life situation!

By the way! Hello! I'm new here and I'm Jayne!!!

Hi Jayne! The Cat-Tribe here.

For those that aren't trying to be deliberately ignorant, here a couple of helpful resources from the National Institute of Mental Health:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm#ref03

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/helpchild.cfm

I'll note the first contains a short summary of studies disproving the theory (often cited here) that ADD is just a matter of food additives and sugar:

Food Additives and Sugar.
It has been suggested that attention disorders are caused by refined sugar or food additives, or that symptoms of ADHD are exacerbated by sugar or food additives. In 1982, the National Institutes of Health held a scientific consensus conference to discuss this issue. It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

In another study, children whose mothers felt they were sugar-sensitive were given aspartame as a substitute for sugar. Half the mothers were told their children were given sugar, half that their children were given aspartame. The mothers who thought their children had received sugar rated them as more hyperactive than the other children and were more critical of their behavior.5

3 Consensus Development Panel. Defined Diets and Childhood Hyperactivity. National Institutes of Health Consensus Development Conference Summary, Volume 4, Number 3, 1982.

4 Wolraich M, Milich R, Stumbo P, Schultz F. The effects of sucrose ingestion on the behavior of hyperactive boys. Pediatrics, 1985; 106; 657-682.

5 Hoover DW, Milich R. Effects of sugar ingestion expectancies on mother-child interaction. Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology, 1994; 22; 501-515.


Both contain short summaries of the studies showing ADD through brain imaging:

Recent Studies on Causes of ADHD.
Some knowledge of the structure of the brain is helpful in understanding the research scientists are doing in searching for a physical basis for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. One part of the brain that scientists have focused on in their search is the frontal lobes of the cerebrum. The frontal lobes allow us to solve problems, plan ahead, understand the behavior of others, and restrain our impulses. The two frontal lobes, the right and the left, communicate with each other through the corpus callosum, (nerve fibers that connect the right and left frontal lobes).

The basal ganglia are the interconnected gray masses deep in the cerebral hemisphere that serve as the connection between the cerebrum and the cerebellum and, with the cerebellum, are responsible for motor coordination. The cerebellum is divided into three parts. The middle part is called the vermis.

All of these parts of the brain have been studied through the use of various methods for seeing into or imaging the brain. These methods include functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) positron emission tomography (PET), and single photon emission computed tomography (SPECT). The main or central psychological deficits in those with ADHD have been linked through these studies. By 2002 the researchers in the NIMH Child Psychiatry Branch had studied 152 boys and girls with ADHD, matched with 139 age- and gender-matched controls without ADHD. The children were scanned at least twice, some as many as four times over a decade. As a group, the ADHD children showed 3-4 percent smaller brain volumes in all regions—the frontal lobes, temporal gray matter, caudate nucleus, and cerebellum.

This study also showed that the ADHD children who were on medication had a white matter volume that did not differ from that of controls. Those never-medicated patients had an abnormally small volume of white matter. The white matter consists of fibers that establish long-distance connections between brain regions. It normally thickens as a child grows older and the brain matures.9

Although this long-term study used MRI to scan the children's brains, the researchers stressed that MRI remains a research tool and cannot be used to diagnose ADHD in any given child. This is true for other neurological methods of evaluating the brain, such as PET and SPECT.

9 Castellanos FX, Lee PP, Sharp W, Jeffries NO, Greenstein DK, Clasen LS, Blumenthal JD, James RS, Ebens CI, Walter JM, Zijdenbos A, Evans AC, Giedd JN, Rapoport JL. Developmental trajectories of brain volume abnormalities in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2002, 288:14:1740-1748.

By the way! Hello! I'm new here and I'm Jayne!!!

Corneliu here! My real name is classified till I know ya better. I'm male though!

So you think it isn't real too eh? I have ADHD and I never blamed my wrongdoing on it.! I have always taken responsiblity for my actions but yet I have ADHD!

Congratulations on making yourself look like a fool.

So you think your nonsensical bullshit will make me believe you, eh? Simply by saying that you have ADHD while referring to your 'wrongdoings' leads me to infer that this is exactly how you feel; i'm lazy but i have an excuse.

And responding to my post ten minutes later does not make you look very smart either.

Yes, but you are a dumbass, which makes it even more severe.

ADD is just an excuse for kids who are too lazy, or too stupid to do their work.

HAHA! agreed. ADHD=total bullshit. it's hard for me to concentrate on stuff, but i don't pass it off as some half-assed disorder. take responsibility for your laziness, or figure out a way to beat the system.

Thank you both for demonstrating your ignorance and immaturity. Its duly noted. We will ignore all future posts by either of you.

I AM NOT a normal person.

Zep and I knew that. But thanks for pointing it out.. :D

So you think your nonsensical bullshit will make me believe you, eh? Simply by saying that you have ADHD while referring to your 'wrongdoings' leads me to infer that this is exactly how you feel; i'm lazy but i have an excuse.

And responding to my post ten minutes later does not make you look very smart either.

Now your saying I'm lazy? Let me tell you something. I work! I work in the Campus RECREATION department. I play in intramural sports. I played baseball, basketball, ran track and cross country. I am anything but lazy. Its nice to know that you try to group all of us in one category when we are all not in one category.

As for being smart for responding in less than 10 minutes just shows how dumb you really are.

Thank you both for demonstrating your ignorance and immaturity. Its duly noted. We will ignore all future posts by either of you.

i will cry myself to sleep.

Zep and I knew that. But thanks for pointing it out.. :D

Don't start in Steph! I'm getting aggitated with half of these morons that say ADD/ADHD don't exist. Its not pretty. If you don't believe me, I have a phone number you can call. I'm sure she can tell you about most of my ADHD days that I have had in the past.

And Your Welcome :D

Thank you both for demonstrating your ignorance and immaturity. Its duly noted. We will ignore all future posts by either of you.

Seconded.

Now your saying I'm lazy? Let me tell you something. I work! I work in the Campus RECREATION department. I play in intramural sports. I played baseball, basketball, ran track and cross country. I am anything but lazy. Its nice to know that you try to group all of us in one category when we are all not in one category.

I never said you're lazy. And as a matter of fact, i work, play sports, and get straight A's too. i also never tried to group 'you' all into one category. it's obvious, however, that you wish to be viewed this way as you are the one who brought it up in this context. i never tried to 'group' anyone. please stop seeking attention.

As for being smart for responding in less than 10 minutes just shows how dumb you really are.

listen to yourself. this sentence doesn't even make sense. i'm the dumb one?

ADHD is a real disorder, while granted it's over diagnosed. What it basically is, the person afflicted with it usually has trouble with school because they can't consternate. Their mind wonders in 100 different directions. The hyper part of it means they have trouble focusing because they can't sit still. One of my sisters kids has it. Usually most grow out of it by adulthood. But not all. I wouldn't wish it on any one. It's basically a chemical imbalance in the brain. Certain circuits over-load and or don't connect. It's a horribly frustrating thing for the person who has it. No, they are not normal or like the rest of us. They have much bigger challenges in life that most of us take for granted.

ADHD is a real disorder, while granted it's over diagnosed. What it basically is, the person afflicted with it usually has trouble with school because they can't consternate. Their mind wonders in 100 different directions. The hyper part of it means they have trouble focusing because they can't sit still. One of my sisters kids has it. Usually most grow out of it by adulthood. But not all. I wouldn't wish it on any one. It's basically a chemical imbalance in the brain. Certain circuits over-load and or don't connect. It's a horribly frustrating thing for the person who has it. No, they are not normal or like the rest of us. They have much bigger challenges in life that most of us take for granted.

That's Concentrate not consternate! LOL!!

I agree with the rest of your explaination though! Very nice :)

That's Concentrate not consternate! LOL!!

I agree with the rest of your explaination though! Very nice :)

Sorry, some times spellcheck fails me..lol

Sorry, some times spellcheck fails me..lol

must be adult ADD! :D

Yes! I may have ADHD but meh, I've managed to turn it around and am able to joke about it but I do know I have it and it is serious.

must be adult ADD! :D

Yes! I may have ADHD but meh, I've managed to turn it around and am able to joke about it but I do know I have it and it is serious.

My sisters middle child has it. Most experts agree that 90% of kids with it will grow out of it. Chin up. :)

My sisters middle child has it. Most experts agree that 90% of kids with it will grow out of it. Chin up. :)

I'm 22! I've had it since I was 9! I know I still have it.

Regardless, we all continue to flaunt the "disorders are so cool!" mentality. Take a look at this thread, for example. Many of you have argued that too many children are improperly "diagnosed" with ADD and/or ADHD, and yet a good third of these same people have began their posts with "I myself have ADD, and...". The tendency to label every fourth child with this disorder is obviously still very present.

Look at these symptoms of ADD/ADHD:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.

I could easily count at least thirty people just in my local community who have those tendencies. They are so general that they could apply to nearly anyone.

I agree with Misspadfootland, who said that it's more of a personality trait than anything else, with the exception of the small percentage of people who do actually have the disorder.

Regardless, we all continue to flaunt the "disorders are so cool!" mentality. Take a look at this thread, for example. Many of you have argued that too many children are improperly "diagnosed" with ADD and/or ADHD, and yet a good third of these same people have began their posts with "I myself have ADD, and...". The tendency to label every fourth child with this disorder is obviously still very present.

Look at these symptoms of ADD/ADHD:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.

I could easily count at least thirty people just in my local community who have those tendencies. They are so general that they could apply to nearly anyone.

I agree with Misspadfootland, who said that it's more of a personality trait than anything else, with the exception of the small percentage of people who do actually have the disorder.

I agree it's over diagnosed and many children get diagnosed with it who don't have it, but that is not to say that some don't. It is a real disorder. I don't think people with disorders think there is any thing "cool" about it.

I agree it's over diagnosed and many children get diagnosed with it who don't have it, but that is not to say that some don't. It is a real disorder. I don't think people with disorders think there is any thing "cool" about it.

I know it aint cool to have a disorder. There are alot of cases of kids getting shunned for believing that what they have, they'll catch.

As a person who is diagnosed with the disorder, I have to say it is real. I have sat down in a quiet room, no windows, no nothing, and a light, and not been able to read. It is a disorder, and drugs do help. I take the notorious AMPHETAMINE, and the sh** helps.

For those of you are curious about some potential facts to go with the widespread speculation, here some results from my ad hoc research in the last little while.

I don't vouch for these sources, but I think they speak for themselves.

These links both report an American Medical Association study that concluded that there is little evidence of overdiagnosis ADHD or overprescription of ADHD medicine
http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun98/adhd.html
http://www.addcentre.co.uk/AMAreport.htm

Here are the results of a study saying ADHD is not universally overdiagnosed or overmedicated in American schoolchildren, but it is overdiagnosed and overtreated in some US communities
http://www.srmhp.org/0201/adhd.html

Interesting article about ADD being both over- and under-diagnosed
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020801b.html

In search for information on overdiagnosis of ADHD, I came across the following regarding overdiagnosis of common medical problems:

Breast cancer
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-03-08-breast-cancer.htm
http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/125/5/601
http://www.infopoems.com/infopoems/showPOEM.cfm?ID=60764

Prostate cancer
http://www.swedish.org/17743.cfm
http://www.fhcrc.org/pubs/center_news/2002/jul3/sart1.html

Lung cancer
http://dms.dartmouth.edu/news/2000/16aug2000.shtml

Lyme disease
http://www.biomed.lib.umn.edu/hmed/1998/03/19980315_nolym.html
http://www.pidj.com/pt/re/pidj/abstract.00006454-200201000-00003.htm;jsessionid=Cj1JjRTJat2YK4zj5vvs3oe15SsK3T8UN9UvNJBcN9HPLj6cGFRs!-1715133107!-949856031!9001!-1

TIAs and minor strokes
http://qjmed.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/12/759

ADHD and ADD are both very real disorders, the problem is kids constantly get diagnosed with it too often, maybe because they're just being kids, because they eat too much sugar, caffeine (I know some parents that give their toddlers coffee with milk in their baby bottles because the kids like it), etc. It was also mentioned sometime that it was lack of the good ol' hardcore discipline of olden times. I think this, on rare occasion, simply causes migdiagnosing of the disorder, because while it's definitely good that physical discipline is more rare, and often illegal, there's a lack of an alternative form of discipline.
The thing is, parents nowadays can't or don't want to (the latter being the most probable) deal with hyper kids, and having this wonderful magic pill to calm them down is a blessing sent from heaven to them. That's definitely a problem.
On the other hand, I have several friends and family members that you can tell really do have the disorder. They may try and study but they simply can't, they don't just want to go watch TV, but they can be willingly sitting with you studying a topic and you can see their blank expressions on their faces, or their writhing around in their seat, and very often you see them doing the best they can to keep their minds on the topic, but it's too hard.
ADHD and ADD are problems, they are very real, whether their causes stem from nature or nurture, and they do point at times to certain problems with society. The real issue is there are hundreds of thousands of kids that are just having a fun childhood like we all should, and suddenly they start taking these pills that make them dull, quiet, shy, and all-around depressing.
I vouch for better and more careful diagnosis methods, so those who really do suffer from ADHD and ADD can have it treated appropriately and those who are simply a bit more hyper than the average kid don't got put under this treatment. Treating those who are not suffering from a disorder is impractical, improper, and irresponsible for the medical experts. It's a very "new" disorder, but it's about time the medical community and society stops blaming everything on ADD and ADHD.

Maybe it's just me angry that people that are pretty normal in their studies, social interactions, and family life suddenly get put on depressants to make others' lives easier and get some drug companies more $$$ :-\

I agree it's over diagnosed and many children get diagnosed with it who don't have it, but that is not to say that some don't. It is a real disorder. I don't think people with disorders think there is any thing "cool" about it.

Yes, this is what I said. It's real and it exists, but is overly diagnosed. And you're right, the people with the disorder find nothing "cool" about it. It's the 14- and 15-year-olds at my school who have been falsely diagnosed with a serious disorder who like to brag about taking meds for it. This is what pisses me off. It's not the actual disorder that bothers me, because I am aware that it is a real problem for some people, but those who don't actually have it but like to say they do to get more attention from teachers because they "can't focus" are the ones who drive me insane about this whole issue.

Originally posted by The Cat-Tribe
These links both report an American Medical Association study that concluded that there is little evidence of overdiagnosis ADHD or overprescription of ADHD medicine

First of all, I haven't had time yet to read all your articles, and it's probably the case that they're very legit. But I just wonder about an AMA study ever researching the possibility of overdiagnosis and overprescription. It seems like they'd be a bit biased. I mean, can you imagine the AMA saying "sorry, our doctors have been screwing up for years and it's affected millions of kids' minds and parents' wallets"? Just a bit of an inclination to interpret results before they're accurately analyzed. I will read them though, to see what the findings are based on.

Regardless, we all continue to flaunt the "disorders are so cool!" mentality. Take a look at this thread, for example. Many of you have argued that too many children are improperly "diagnosed" with ADD and/or ADHD, and yet a good third of these same people have began their posts with "I myself have ADD, and...". The tendency to label every fourth child with this disorder is obviously still very present.

In the face of copious posts denying the existence of ADD or saying it may exist but almost no one really has it, some of us have testified that we have the condition and described how it effects us as proof it is real and serious. Now we are accused of bragging about our "cool" disorder. Please. :rolleyes:

Look at these symptoms of ADD/ADHD:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.

I could easily count at least thirty people just in my local community who have those tendencies. They are so general that they could apply to nearly anyone.

I agree with Misspadfootland, who said that it's more of a personality trait than anything else, with the exception of the small percentage of people who do actually have the disorder.

If you had read a bit ahead in the thread, you would know you are in error.
The complete diagnostic criteria for ADHD as set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV are:

A. Either (1) or (2)

(1) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities.
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework).
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities.
(2) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level.

Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected.
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness).
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly.
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
(f) often talks excessively.

Impulsivity
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn.
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

Code based on type:

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Combined Type: if both Criteria A1 and A2 are met for the past 6 months.

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if Criterion A1 is met but Criteria A2 is not met for the past 6 months.

Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criteria A2 is met but Criterion A1 is not met for the past 6 months.

If you read the criteria carefully, they exclude the "thirty people just in my local community who have those tendencies" and do not "apply to nearly anyone."

First, the individual must suffer from 6 or more of the A1 or A2 criteria for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level. To be clear, this means each the 6 or more symptoms must be to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with development level.

Second, the A1 and A2 criteria are qualified by the term "often" to further require that the behavior be pervasive, rather than occasional or normal.

Third, impairment from these symptoms must be present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

Fourth, there must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

In response to The Cat-Tribe

Hmm....the interesting thing is, I'm looking at those lists and noticing that things I've seen in myself for years actually qualify me for the "combined" ADHD, as defined by the DSMMD-IV. I've never been tested for ADD or ADHD, and I'm now halfway through college. What I wonder is, if you fit these criteria, does it mean medicine would typically be used, or are there more serious criteria which determine the prescription of medication?

In response to The Cat-Tribe

Hmm....the interesting thing is, I'm looking at those lists and noticing that things I've seen in myself for years actually qualify me for the "combined" ADHD, as defined by the DSMMD-IV. I've never been tested for ADD or ADHD, and I'm now halfway through college. What I wonder is, if you fit these criteria, does it mean medicine would typically be used, or are there more serious criteria which determine the prescription of medication?

Medicine is one way. I was on medication till they found out it made me more hyper! Medicine doesn't work for everyone but it does for some. Since you are over 18 obviously, it is up to you if you want to try it or not.

When I was placed on medication, my parents asked if I wanted to try it. I said yea but then came to regret it. Now I don't take any and so far, I really have had no problems but my ADHD does flare up from time to time.

I suggest though that you might want to get tested just to be sure that you are infact ADD/ADHD.

Homeschooled myself here :)
Interesting... my parents are sending me to school, after I've been homeschooled for seven years, BECAUSE I have concentration and impulsivity problems.

Interesting... my parents are sending me to school, after I've been homeschooled for seven years, BECAUSE I have concentration and impulsivity problems.

Good Luck!

I was homeschooled for about 2 and a half years then went to the High School. Lasted 1 month and went back to homeschooling!

Reason? I was smarter than most of my peers and wasn't being challenged enough for the most part.

The thing is, parents nowadays can't or don't want to (the latter being the most probable) deal with hyper kids, and having this wonderful magic pill to calm them down is a blessing sent from heaven to them. That's definitely a problem.
*snip*
The real issue is there are hundreds of thousands of kids that are just having a fun childhood like we all should, and suddenly they start taking these pills that make them dull, quiet, shy, and all-around depressing.
*snip*
Maybe it's just me angry that people that are pretty normal in their studies, social interactions, and family life suddenly get put on depressants to make others' lives easier and get some drug companies more $$$ :-\[/QUOTE]

I have found information on ADD/ADHD difficult to come by. I was diagnosed as ADHD near the end of grade six, and put on Ritalin (methylphenidate) at the beginning of grade seven. One of the things i do remember reading is that Ritalin is actually a stimulant, not a depressant. The fact that I was more hyperactive while taking Ritalin than I ever was before or since would seem to support this. :headbang:
Perhaps it's possible that the effect of the student's parents and teachers spending more time watching/discussing/evaluating their behaviour in class is the catalyst for the changes in behaviour rather than the taking of stimulants in cases of ADHD.
The idea of most of the stuff I read about ADD and Ritalin (it was years ago, I can't give you any sources) seemed to be that by taking stimulants like Ritalin or Dexidrine (an isomer of speed) you'll also stimulate whatever part of the brain you need to use in order to concentrate. This would work for anybody, ADD/ADHD or "normal." (whatever normal is...) Taking Ritalin certainly helped me to concentrate, but the side effects were rather severe (I weighed 85 pounds when they decided to take me off of it.)
On the question of students consuming sugar: I often wonder if it isn't so much the sugar students have that is the source of the problem, but the caffeine in soda pop they drink that makes them more hyper?
Anyone who has read on this more recently and wants to comment, please tell me if I'm off the mark.

Cat-Tribe, you are super cool. :)

In response to The Cat-Tribe

Hmm....the interesting thing is, I'm looking at those lists and noticing that things I've seen in myself for years actually qualify me for the "combined" ADHD, as defined by the DSMMD-IV. I've never been tested for ADD or ADHD, and I'm now halfway through college. What I wonder is, if you fit these criteria, does it mean medicine would typically be used, or are there more serious criteria which determine the prescription of medication?

Diagnosing yourself is the only thing more unreliable than us layman using the criteria to diagnose others. That said it is common for someone who really does have ADD to read the criteria and go "wow, that is me!"

If you are seriously concerned, send me an e-mail or telegram and I'll send you links for more information and some more comprehensive online tests you can take. None of these are definitive and they tend to overdiagnose. It helps if you have someone else that knows you that can independently rate you on the tests.

Obviously, to get medication you need to be diagnosed by a professional. Find a good psychiatrist in your area -- perferably one with experience or expertise in ADD.

Educating yourself about ADD (again I can send you links about adult ADD) is the best first step. When it was first suggested I had ADD, I thought it was ridiculous. Then I started reading about it and it was right on. I then
consulted several separate psychiatrists that agreed on the diagnosis.

Cat-Tribe, you are super cool. :)

I've got RL to do, so I'll comment on your questions later.

But thanks for the compliment. :D I'm suprised how good it felt. <sigh>

(It may have helped that I think I convinced everyone in another thread that I am a complete jerk. :p )

ADD and ADHD are actually the same thing now - they're both referred to as ADHD, but there is the behavioral problem type and the inattentive type (formerly ADD).

Anyway....

ADHD IS REAL! It is a well-documented physiological condition. You couldn't cause it if you tried to. TV can't cause it, parents can't - it's an inherited condition that occurs commonly with other disorders on the same sepctrum - ADD is the mild end of it, depression is in the middle, and schizophrenia would the extreme, full manifestation of ADHD-type genes.

It is possible the ADHD is being overdiagnosed - that is, kids who simply have unrelated behavior issues are being misclassified as ADD. However, to suggest that ADHD is just a made-up problem that parents cause is insane and wrong. Say whatever you want, medical literature is unanimous in classifying ADHD as a real disorder that has its basis in chemical imbalance in the brain.

When it comes to treating ADHD, drugs are not always the answer. They are often part of a solution, but to suggest that a kid who can't sit still goes to a doctor and walks out the same day with a bottle of pills is to paint an overly simplistic picture. ADHD often persists into adulthood (as in my case) and the most effective long-term treatment is a combination of proper medication (which treats the legitimate and real chemical aspect of it) and self-imposed discipline regimes. Knowing myself and my ADHD, I have to work extra hard to ensure that my work habits are effective. You must have the strength to remove distractions from your working environment etc... These kinds of strategies can be developed with a good ADHD-specialized psychologist, and they play a role that is just as important as that of medicine.

I'm sorry to make a blanket statement, but those of you who voted for the "parents fault" option are dead wrong, and no doctor will back you up. Diagnosis may be an issue, but don't assume that someone with ADHD is looking to excuse a behavior problem as a "disease."

I'd have to study up on ADD to even believe it actually exists. I think some shit is just pulled out of the air in order to make money by selling the drugs for it.

I have personally seen children put on Ritalin and it turnt them into zombies. One paticular child I know of , before he got on the drug..his mother let him eat all the candy he wanted and drink all the caffiene sodas he wanted, anytime he wanted and wondered why he was so hyper all the time. She was lazy and never put forth the effort to work with her son.

"
ADHD IS REAL! It is a well-documented physiological condition. You couldn't cause it if you tried to. TV can't cause it, parents can't - it's an inherited condition that occurs commonly with other disorders on the same spectrum - ADD is the mild end of it, depression is in the middle, and schizophrenia would the extreme, full manifestation of ADHD-type genes.

medical literature is unanimous in classifying ADHD as a real disorder that has its basis in chemical imbalance in the brain.

"

Following a link that was posted earlier in this thread sends us to an article that reads:

Research has shown that genetic factors play a major role in ADHD. It is the only psychiatric disorder so far for which identification of candidate genes has been replicated. Functional magnetic resonance imaging also has helped shed light on the disorder.

Only 31% of children with ADHD have no co-occurring disorders. According to the Multimodal Treatment Study of Children with ADHD (Arch Gen Psychiatry 1999;56[12]:1073-1086):

* 39.9% have oppositional defiant disorder;
* 37.3% have an anxiety or mood disorder;
* 14.3% have a conduct disorder;
* 10.9% have a tic disorder.

(ADHD--Overcoming the Specter of Overdiagnosis
by William Kanapaux
Psychiatric Times August 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 8)

I don't know about the first three, but Tic disorders are definitely neurologically based.
When the caudate nucleus (a pear-shaped thing near the hippocampus) of a person's brain is overly sensitive to normal amounts of dopamine (a neurotransmitter) they begin to have 'tics'--involuntary movements of the head, neck, and arms. Myoclonus and Tourette's syndrome are examples of this.
When a person makes too much dopamine in the first place, they lose contact with reality, become delusional or paranoid, create words, etc. Schizophrenia.
When a person's brain doesn't make enough dopamine, they begin to have muscle rigidity and trouble making involuntary movements (swaying arms to keep balance while walking, etc.) Parkinson's disease is an example of this. (Like the pope has)
Medication for either of these conditions (e.g Levidopa for Parkinsons, haldol or risperidal for Tourette's) attempts to correct the imbalance, and can have "side effects" exactly like the symptoms of the disease at the opposite end of the spectrum.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that dopamine is the problem with ADHD too. I'm a full-time student who also works 17 hours a weekend who doesn't have a lot of time to look up how exactly dopamine doesn't work in ADHD, (like why am I wasting time doing this right now, either, right?) but if anyone can shed some light I'd be very pleased.

Li

I'd have to study up on ADD to even believe it actually exists. I think some shit is just pulled out of the air in order to make money by selling the drugs for it.
Fuck you.

Sorry. That was uncalled for. But it really fucking pisses me when people tell me that a disorder that I severely suffer from, to the point that I do not remember more than tiny fragments of my life before I entered the 6th grade and started taking Ritalin, doesn't exist. Don't talk until you understand the hell that I went through.

Hmm. Surprisingly it hardly exists here. Teachers smacking children is a norm, so is telling them to shut up and sit down. It shut them up and works pretty well though.

Perhaps ADD does exists, but I don't think it's a 2-3% occurance among children. Some of the children are just desperately seeking attention because their parent's don't either give them enough, or give them too much that they walk over their heads.

I'd have to study up on ADD to even believe it actually exists. I think some shit is just pulled out of the air in order to make money by selling the drugs for it.



Oh shut up...

ADHD is very real. My younger brother was untreated for the first 7 years of his life. He couldn't even stand still, he rarely could follow a full sentence, and litteraly could not stop making noise. Medicated he is almost completely normal, he still fidgets a lot, but he can function normally. Ritalin has made a huge difference for him. You can observe the effects over the course of the day as he wakes up without it, gets medicated, and the medication wears off.

Why the mass diagnosis of ADHD?

Because you make kids sit in desks for 8 hours a day with a 15 minute recess and 30 minute PE. Why could CHILDREN be hyperactive? No idea...

You sir, are the win. All this is nonsense, kids don't want to learn, they'd much rather ride bikes or play outside or something. I was slightly more tame though, i spent a LOT of time on the computer... However, absolutley everyone of my friend always had me playing basketball or riding my bike. Looking back, I would have been ball of fat if it weren't for them. Still good friends with one actually. But I digress. ADD is BS.

You sir, are the win. All this is nonsense, kids don't want to learn, they'd much rather ride bikes or play outside or something. I was slightly more tame though, i spent a LOT of time on the computer... However, absolutley everyone of my friend always had me playing basketball or riding my bike. Looking back, I would have been ball of fat if it weren't for them. Still good friends with one actually. But I digress. ADD is BS.

And one more post from an ignorant poster!

Look around you Aeopia. Look throughout this thread. We could tell you some of our horror stories that'll make your hair stand on in. If you don't believe me, just ask in this thread. I'm sure someone who suffers from ADD and ADHD probably would tell you the hell they went through or is going through.

Also, did you bother to read this thread at all? There are definitions for ADD and ADHD. There was also links about ADD and ADHD. I suggest you learn before spouting off that it doesn't exist.

FYI: I have ADHD!

Hmm. Surprisingly it hardly exists here. Teachers smacking children is a norm, so is telling them to shut up and sit down. It shut them up and works pretty well though.

Hmmm. Is it possible that it just is not properly diagnosed there?

Perhaps ADD does exists, but I don't think it's a 2-3% occurance among children. Some of the children are just desperately seeking attention because their parent's don't either give them enough, or give them too much that they walk over their heads.

1. Pure speculation
2. Ignores medical research and studies
3. Ignores consensus of medical and psychological communities
4. Ignores diagnosis and treament of ADD in adults
5. Ignores most of this thread -- testimonials from others and studies about little overdiagnosis

And one more post from an ignorant poster!

Look around you Aeopia. Look throughout this thread. We could tell you some of our horror stories that'll make your hair stand on in. If you don't believe me, just ask in this thread. I'm sure someone who suffers from ADD and ADHD probably would tell you the hell they went through or is going through.

Also, did you bother to read this thread at all? There are definitions for ADD and ADHD. There was also links about ADD and ADHD. I suggest you learn before spouting off that it doesn't exist.

FYI: I have ADHD!

Well said, Corneliu.

Well said, Corneliu.

Thank you! Considering my life has been hell these past few days, I think I've managed to control myself rather well in this ludicrous debate. And by that being proving that ADD/ADHD exists though it is a good debate except for people saying it doesn't exist. People do want to learn!

Its a good learning thread I guess is what I'm saying.

ok here goes..ADD and ADHD are both real,as i was diagnosed as having ADD and ADHD(don't ask me how...the docs told me that) and i suffered with it for most of my childhood,even now it is hard for me to focus on something for longer than an hour or so. so i find what people say that is jus some bullsh*t made up by doctors to sell drugs extremely insulting

I don't know how ADHD is diagnosed in the US but in Scotland it can take many months of tests and psycological profiling to make a diagnosis.

I have two kids with ADHD (and one without) and I know it's a real illness, not a symptom of bad parenting.
A child who genuinely has ADD or ADHD has a brain disorder, the pathways which relay electrical signals are mixed up and this makes it difficult for them to relax or concentrate, the hyperactivity is a symptom of this as is any violent mood swings.
Both my kids take medication, though not the same kind and this helps them to calm down and concentrate at school, it also stops them being so impulsive with their behaviour (i.e. running out in front of traffic if they see a friend on the other side of the street, or shooting from the lip before they have thought about what they want to say)

It seems that in the US ADD or ADHD has been diagnosed by teaching staff unable to control an unruly kid or by parents unwilling or unable to be proper parents to their offspring, this is why genuine sufferers are looked upon as badly as they are.
ADD and ADHD are real, no question.

I must say, I used to believe the same as some of the other idiots on this thread - that ADD/ADHD was simply a made-up disease for lazy parents so they could just give their kids a pill instead of employing some good old-fashioned parenting.

However, my 8-year old son is definitely ADHD. Diagnosed at age 6. My sister, a school psychologist with a Masters in Psychology, first commented on his erratic behavior to my wife. I, of course, just thought we needed to be stricter with him, and tried to do so, for about 6 more months. We gave up and took him in to see a psychiatrist to have him professionally evaluated. We were constantly getting notes from the teachers about him pushing, running, not staying in line, etc. Finally, one day, some kid stuck some food in his underwear, and he decided to show the whole lunchroom that there was nothing in his underwear - by pulling them down.

Since we have put him on Ritalin, his behavior at school, while not perfect, is no worse than that of any other bright, active, healthy boy his age. He is not a zombie.

I know immediately if he has had his medicine or not. He doesn't understand the idea of personal space, he yells, basically just bounces off the walls, 24/7.

This is a real disorder. Please, those of you who think this is not a real disorder, do some research. Spend some time with someone who was diagnosed and is on medicine. Then make your judgements.

My rant.

This is a real disorder. Please, those of you who think this is not a real disorder, do some research. Spend some time with someone who was diagnosed and is on medicine. Then make your judgements.



Thank you, I whole-heartedly agree. Anyone who has posted on this thread that they think it is a load of BS or the result of bad parenting obviously has never had close contact with someone who has ADHD.

As I said before, I have it, and the changes in my behavior and my ability to concentrate are incredibly drastic when I take my medication. I had a terrible time at school before I was diagnosed, I couldn't concentrate, couldn't sit still. I was the problem child. Now, only a few years after my diagnosis, I have graduated from a high school for the intellectually gifted, am on my way to university and am fluently bilingual.

Before you decide that this is all a fake way for us to hide our laziness and get some attention, spend a few days, better weeks, in close contact with a sufferer. You will believe after that, I promise you.

So, explanations for the increased (some would say epidemic) spread of ADD in the USA? Especially since its a physical disorder according to some of you.

But none of these anecdotes and testimonies and tell me that ADD isn't a self fulfilling prophecy. If you send a kid to a shrink, and he gets a diagnosis, and he will learn about that diagnosis and associate himself with that diagnosis... is he not going to insist that its a real disorder, an ailment, a problem with his brain? Of course.

Even if it isn't.

Society moves faster now than it ever did. Children are raised less responsibly than they ever were. It's all too easy to look at a hyperactive child and go, AHA! BRAIN DYSFUNCTION/PSYCH DISORDER! Especially when the alternatives are what... refusal of self-identification via psychiatry? No one wants to refuse that.

Psychiatry tells us what we want to hear, much like religion, providing the easy answer. It's easier to believe oneself a helpless victim of external factors like brain/genetics. If it came down to me believing that I can control my own mental state, behaviors and actions, or believing that I'm subject to only my own desires plus external factors which overwhelmingly I have no control over.... well, the latter is certainly more appealing when my state, behaviors and actions displease me, right? Or displease, say, the standards of single and working parents, or increasingly psychologically oriented teachers?

I wish people could be more open minded and learn to just say no to psychiatry and other personae-manufacturing gigs, but it'll never happen. Instead *I* will be labelled close minded, cold hearted, ignorant etc, for suggesting any of this.

Oh well.

Hmm i cannot focus on anything that bores me for a hour before I start going crazy, perhaps i have ADD.

I think most people feel ADD is just over blown. The amount of people who "have" ADD probably is over blown but i dont doubt it DOES exist.

Saying its BS is insanely silly. Why do some people have bi polar disorders or turettes? I dont think its crazy to think that a disease could exist like ADD, just not at the numbers we are seeing is all.

Perhaps we should be exercising the shat out of our kids, to weed out the "fake" cases of ADD. Any hey if that doesnt work, at least we will have less fat kids to deal with...

So, what are your thoughts. In my opinion, most things labeled ADHD are the result of a parent that doesn;t discipline their child. While growing up, i know kids who toll ritalin and straterra and adderol 9and other medicines of their ilk). When they were home, their parents let them have the run of the house. that;s not right. alot of the times, paretns don't want to deal with their kids so they cart them off to therapists, when the real proble is theirselves.

Is it jsut me, or is the next generation gonna become mindless robots?

It's overdiagnosed. And a lot of children who don't really have it are getting Ritalin.

Before you think your child has ADHD or ADD, consider the following changes:

1) Spend "floor time" playing with your children.
2) Stop watching TV in your house.
3) Stop eating sugar (drinks, snacks, etc) in your house.
4) Get more exercise outside with your children.
5) Children require a schedule - stick to it.
6) Children love direction - plan the day and participate with them.
7) Children love consistency - punish and reward consistently.

Now. If there has been an improvement over a few months, it's not ADHD or ADD.

How does you being the son of a teacher mean that you know that ADHD exists? :headbang:
The direction that is followed in the uk, that is to come somewhere close to making a correct diagnoses of ADD ADHD alot of information is collected ,many many things are ruled out and after carefull thought a decision would be taken
relevant to the data received. I know for certain that a proportion of those specialists, after diagnosis, would not could not garantee that the conclusions
that they had reached were 100% beyond doubt.
ITS NOT HARD

I wish people could be more open minded and learn to just say no to psychiatry and other personae-manufacturing gigs, but it'll never happen. Instead *I* will be labelled close minded, cold hearted, ignorant etc, for suggesting any of this.

Oh well.

While I do not agree with you entirly (ADHD is real, I have it and have had to deal with that since I was diasgnosed 10 years ago), I do think that some of what you are saying is valid, and you did make the effort to justify your veiws unlike some of the other disbeleivers on this thread, so kudos for that. The seeming epidemic of this condition is, I believe, highly exagerated. Many of the symptoms of ADHD can be explained by other means, just being a kid for instance. I am sure some over-anxious parents are sure that their kid has it, that some psycologists who don't have much experience with it misdiagnose and that some teachers who have to deal with 30 students don't have the time to devote the necessairy attention to particulairily hyper, normal children. Despite their best efforts, some will be misdiagnosed, many, perhaps, with a condition like ADHD, where the symptoms have many other potential causes. This does not mean that the condition does not exist. I know, I have it and it wasn't a phase, it wasn't just being a kid, it wasn't my diet or a lack of exercise. Santa Barbara, it is clear to me that, while your points about our society are, at least partially, valid, that you probably have not had close, long term contact with someone who is suffering from a serious case of ADHD. I won't label you close-minded or cold-hearted, simply inexperienced, and I would encourage you to seek some more experience in this issue.