NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of talk on these forums has been quite confrontational, utilising broad strokes and a lot of simple "us-versus-them" mentality when dealing with foreign affairs (both sides are guilty of this, Left and Right). I thought I'd aim for a more positive-minded thread here with regards to the fastest-growing Major Power in the world today.

Currently, the People's Republic of China is essentially a massive, (Massively Corrupt), Oligarchic Dictatorship. Ordinary people have little to no political freedom, civil rights only exist at the State's convenience, the military is under-going a massive technological revival, the economy, fueled by the influx of capitalist ideals, has exploded. Out of all this, a well-to-do middle class of China is beginning to form, and thinking is starting to liberalise.

My question is thus this, given the meteoric rise of China's power, economy and influence under "Western" concepts, will China finally embrace the foremost Western concept around, Democracy?

What would/will it take for this to happen? Bloody revolution, quiet reform, forced transition (at the point of another nation's gun or through international economic pressure)?

Never say never. But I say it wont happen in my lifetime or if it does its long off.

I think it will take the Western World not fighting the easy battles. Its a lot easier to bring democracy to Iraq just based on the numbers, but China based on numbers would free so many more.

I also think it will take a domestic revolution in China supported by the free world to actually get things moving.

Never say never. But I say it wont happen in my lifetime or if it does its long off.

I think it will take the Western World not fighting the easy battles. Its a lot easier to bring democracy to Iraq just based on the numbers, but China based on numbers would free so many more.

I also think it will take a domestic revolution in China supported by the free world to actually get things moving.

Revolutions don't happen anymore.

Not to mention that as successful and as powerful as they are becoming there doesn't seem to be anything that would force them to change.

Revolutions don't happen anymore.

Not to mention that as successful and as powerful as they are becoming there doesn't seem to be anything that would force them to change.

I dont think I agree with that. I would however say the revolutions in todays world rarely are sucessful. But what about say the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. They were fighting the Tailban for years before us and the international community came in and helped them.

Yeah, never say never.

With their booming economy, and a new fresh batch of leaders soon to take over the old one's, they might slowly become more democratic.

I lived in China with a host family for a year in 2002-2003, right before the SARS epidemic, so I thought I would add something from my experience. When I first arrived, I was given the assignment to ask my host parents and host brother how they would answer certain questions involving culture, to get an idea of the differences in Chinese thinking, and I was surprised at the difference in my parents' answers as compared to my brother's and his girlfriend's. The younger two had much more liberal views when it came to politics; they believed, for example that freedom was more important than security, unlike my host parents. My guess is that, considering the higher-ups in the CCP are well-educated, much like my family was, that as people from my brother's generation come into power, China will become freer and freer, until eventually China is a true republic. It may take years, but if things continue as they are, I would not be surprised if it eventually happens.

I lived in China with a host family for a year in 2002-2003, right before the SARS epidemic, so I thought I would add something from my experience. When I first arrived, I was given the assignment to ask my host parents and host brother how they would answer certain questions involving culture, to get an idea of the differences in Chinese thinking, and I was surprised at the difference in my parents' answers as compared to my brother's and his girlfriend's. The younger two had much more liberal views when it came to politics; they believed, for example that freedom was more important than security, unlike my host parents. My guess is that, considering the higher-ups in the CCP are well-educated, much like my family was, that as people from my brother's generation come into power, China will become freer and freer, until eventually China is a true republic. It may take years, but if things continue as they are, I would not be surprised if it eventually happens.

Seconded. My uncle says the same. RIght now, the older generation is too busy trying to make money and better their family. The younger (lazier :D) are more happy enjoying life, evaluating life and what would be become of it.

I think it will happen, mainly due to the rise of Christianity there, as that religion promotes above all, equality before God.

Well, any nation can become a democracy evntually.
EVEN EVIL TESSORIST NATIONS LIKE IRAN!

It CAN become a democracy, but be assured it will be a Chinese democracy. They are masters of assimilating systems and making them their own. They won't just be importing one brand or another. They will make it uniquely Chinese.

How did they resist the Mongols?

They bred with them.

So shall it be with democracy. I think. I don't know, it's late.

It CAN become a democracy, but be assured it will be a Chinese democracy. They are masters of assimilating systems and making them their own. They won't just be importing one brand or another. They will make it uniquely Chinese.

How did they resist the Mongols?

They bred with them.

So shall it be with democracy. I think. I don't know, it's late.

It CAN become a democracy, but be assured it will be a Chinese democracy. They are masters of assimilating systems and making them their own. They won't just be importing one brand or another. They will make it uniquely Chinese.

How did they resist the Mongols?

Actually there was a revolution which drove out the Mongols who were ruling China.

Well, any nation can become a democracy evntually.
EVEN EVIL TESSORIST NATIONS LIKE IRAN!
wtf lol

Also look at Hong Kong, after China gained control they didn't really come down with an iron fist on Hong Kong. Im sure that the ideas and cultures from there are bound to spread out.

A lot rests on the Chinese economy. I would hope they continuely move towards individual rights and property...they've taken baby steps towards it. I think as long as we keep solid relationships with them, and sell the idea of freedom, economics, and a Constitutional Republic,....then perhaps we'll come across a leader that wants to make a change. Any solid change would be a great victory for peace and economic stability in that region and in the world.

Also look at Hong Kong, after China gained control they didn't really come down with an iron fist on Hong Kong. Im sure that the ideas and cultures from there are bound to spread out.


Hong Kong is the best example of why statism fails and Capitalism has undenialable been it's better. I wish Britain kept it permenently.

Hong Kong is the best example of why statism fails and Capitalism has undenialable been it's better. I wish Britain kept it permenently.

Why do you wish it was still in Britain's hands? Sure, I guess it sucks for the people in Hong Kong that were captitlists and all the sudden they are under China, but I can only see the handover as a good thing for Britain and China in the long run.

China is well over 6000 years old, so I would guess, they will figure out what is best for their nation. *prostrate before China* :p

China is well over 6000 years old, so I would guess, they will figure out what is best for their nation. *prostrate before China*

Hahaha, let's not forget they chose to embrace Maoist Communism, look what that did for them.

Why do you wish it was still in Britain's hands? Sure, I guess it sucks for the people in Hong Kong that were captitlists and all the sudden they are under China, but I can only see the handover as a good thing for Britain and China in the long run.

For the most part...
Modern Britain has a very hands-off attitude in it's jurisdiction of external governing. Many places which are under British power, are extremely free. Sometimes I think America would be more free if it hadn't gone into Revolution...sometimes.

China isn't exactly the ideal country. They still have a lot potential as a country, but they don't seem to govern their people in a manner that's respectful of individual rights, and I wonder how long till they grasp Hong Kong. Hopefully they leave it alone. As is, seems the best.

For the most part...
Modern Britain has a very hands-off attitude in it's jurisdiction of external governing. Many places which are under British power, are extremely free. Sometimes I think America would be more free if it hadn't gone into Revolution...sometimes.

China isn't exactly the ideal country. They still have a lot potential as a country, but they don't seem to govern their people in a manner that's respectful of individual rights, and I wonder how long till they grasp Hong Kong. Hopefully they leave it alone. As is, seems the best.


well, that was partly my point. That china does not respect individual rights, but Hong Kong has a ton of people living there. All of them know how great it was to live under free rule. That is bound to spread, but like I said it sucks for the citizens of Hong Kong now, but for China overall I cant see how it could be a bad thing.

How did they resist the Mongols?

They bred with them.

So shall it be with democracy. I think. I don't know, it's late.

...so they'll breed with with Democrats? Sign me up!

Anyway. It seems to me like it's a possibility. But it won't be a Western democracy, that's for sure. There are certain aspects of Western thought that make it possible for a democracy to exist and flourish; the East, while aware of these concepts, is not built upon these ideas. Democracy means something to the Eastern mind. Take Japan for example. They are a democracy, certainly, but not the kind we picture in America. Same thing goes for China. They're much more collectivist, and Confucian philosophy plays a definite role in governing.

well, that was partly my point. That china does not respect individual rights, but Hong Kong has a ton of people living there. All of them know how great it was to live under free rule. That is bound to spread, but like I said it sucks for the citizens of Hong Kong now, but for China overall I cant see how it could be a bad thing.

I see where your going. The meme will spread, now that it's a nation. Maybe it will...I hope it will.

as long as there's economic growth, i don't think china will ever become a democracy. personally i think it'll just become a larger singapore

By beginning to endorse capitalist principles, it might just turn from a communist dictatorship into a capitalist dictatorship. Liberty and civil rights have little to do with economics.

Just because one lives in a democracy that doesn't mean their government is not corrupt either. Maybe China doesn't want to be a democracy. After all their culture and history goes back a lot further than most western civilizations, they have lasted this long doing things the way they do them. If it's not broken, why fix it?

Setting up voting in china would be absolutely hellish with all the issolated rural areas and small matter of 1.3 billion people. India seem to manage though I guess.

Just because one lives in a democracy that doesn't mean their government is not corrupt either. Maybe China doesn't want to be a democracy. After all their culture and history goes back a lot further than most western civilizations, they have lasted this long doing things the way they do them. If it's not broken, why fix it?

yes i believ so too, but maybe it will be more democratic in years to come

Things aren't that great in HK. Beijing is slowly exerting it's control and dominance over HK. They have final say over who's on the Legistative board and often come out strongly against any form of Universal suffrage whenever it's raised.
Most HK'ers dislike the Mainland Chinese and look down on them (it's rather amusing reading the papers - whenever a crime is committed by a Mainlander their nationality is ALWAYS mentioned). At the same time, they're pretty worried about what China has in mind for them. Mainlanders mistrust HK'ers and complain about them alot.
And while there is 7 million ppl in HK, there's 1.4 Billion just above them in China. So just how much affect HK can and will have on Chinese policy is difficult to say. The Chinese Govt is very arrogant (and insecure) and will more likely ignore the positives of HK, as that would imply that someone else can do it better than they can.

As for democracy in China, it's a long way off, if it ever gets there. There's too much discrepancy between rich and poor, educated and uneducated there. The way society is set up there, ppl usually go along with whatever the Govt tells them. They have total control over the media, which helps.
I found it quite bizarre there. I found the ppl generally have a bit of an inferiority complex and need constant reassurance that their town/country/culture is impressive. The huge publicity around the Olympics was incredible - it really was portrayed as a kind of 'Us vs Them' type thing, where each medal confirmed China's status as a 'great' nation in the eyes of the World.

I would hope China does become a democracy but I don't think the transition to capitalism will make this more likely and will probably actually make the government even more powerful. The consumerism which is now very much a part of Chinese society means that people are less likely to think about politics and are now more concerned with making money and acquiring consumer goods which is what has happened in the capitalist countries of the west. I don't know how China can become a democracy any time soon but hopefully the Chinese working class will eventually become more aware of how they are being exploited by their corrupt capitalist government and will again rise up in a revolution and start the transition to a genuine democratic socialist form of government.