NationStates Jolt Archive

I read this in today's paper
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050226/GERMANY26/TPInternational/?query=NPD
for thse of you in Germany, or elsewhwere in Europe, how do you feel about the issue of growing support for parties like the NPD? Is it actually serious, or exagerated? should thye be outlawed, or not allowed to march, especially on V-E Day?

Neo-neo-Nazis? Are they people who want to be like neo-Nazis? :p

ah, yes.. one of the great double-standards of liberalism today:

you can say anything you want, as long as I agree with it. The second you become un-politically-correct, you must be silenced.

Meanwhile, how dare you try to silence my voice?

This should be interesting. (note: I do not support Naziism. But if free speech is guaranteed, then they should be able to take part in it too, as reprehensible as their thoughts might seem to most of us.)

fixed

Should be interesting. Anybody notice that much of the neo-nazi stuff happens in the former East-Germany. My German teacher says it has to do with East-Germany never taking responsibility for the war.

I read this in today's paper
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050226/GERMANY26/TPInternational/?query=NPD
for thse of you in Germany, or elsewhwere in Europe, how do you feel about the issue of growing support for parties like the NPD? Is it actually serious, or exagerated? should thye be outlawed, or not allowed to march, especially on V-E Day?
It's interesting to me that many of the German nationals on here are rabidly anti-American, yet so strangely silent when the subject of the ever-growing numbers of German neo-Nazis comes up.

I'm form Germany, and it's true, the support for such extreme right-wing parties ist rising alarmingly, but the overall support is still quite low.

But I don't think this is the major problem. Much worse is the fact, that less-extreme right-wing-tendencies become more and more popular. Even here at my school there are some people (not a very small number) who think magazines which are printed in foreign languages should be banned (huh?) and moslems should not be allowed to live together in own communities and therefore isolate themselves (is it illegal to do thing, which bring disadvantages (a bad integration) to myself?) from the rest of the population.

I don't think that this is a good way to deal with this issue. There should be more chances for foreigners to integrate in the society, but you cannot force them to integrate. And banning non-german magazines is complete bullshit in my opinion.


(Sorry for messed up Grammar which I did write possible)

It's interesting to me that many of the German nationals on here are rabidly anti-American, yet so strangely silent when the subject of the ever-growing numbers of German neo-Nazis comes up.

Yes, any Germans around? This seems like a significant societal issue in your country. Its only about eight thirty in the evening there (if my calculations are correct) so the time zones shouldn't be an issue...

The forum also says it was about 8:40PM now, here in our time-zone, but it is about 9:40PM.... Quite strange, but perhaps my settings are not correct. But I'm sure, my clock is correct :)

CODE BLUE!

Head for the bunkers gents! I feel a war comin' on!

:sniper:

ah, yes.. one of the great double-standards of liberalism today:

you can say anything you want, as long as I agree with it. The second you become un-politically-correct, you must be silenced.

Meanwhile, how dare you try to silence my voice?

This should be interesting. (note: I do not support Naziism. But if free speech is guaranteed, then they should be able to take part in it too, as reprehensible as their thoughts might seem to most of us.)

them holding a nazi march at a WWII veterans convention is just sick and disgusting.

the next time you have a conservative party, i'll be sure to call up all my gay freinds to crash and have an orgy at your place.

hey, freedom of expression, right?

them holding a nazi march at a WWII veterans convention is just sick and disgusting.

the next time you have a conservative party, i'll be sure to call up all my gay freinds to crash and have an orgy at your place.

hey, freedom of expression, right?

:rolleyes: A party would be private, thus you can exclude who you want.

I'm form Germany, and it's true, the support for such extreme right-wing parties ist rising alarmingly, but the overall support is still quite low.

But I don't think this is the major problem. Much worse is the fact, that less-extreme right-wing-tendencies become more and more popular. Even here at my school there are some people (not a very small number) who think magazines which are printed in foreign languages should be banned (huh?) and moslems should not be allowed to live together in own communities and therefore isolate themselves (is it illegal to do thing, which bring disadvantages (a bad integration) to myself?) from the rest of the population.


So protectionist, right-wing attitudes are growing in general? It must be the same trend that is creating the surge in Nazism, taken to the next level.

What about the laws being rushed through government to avoid this embarassment? I think, personally, that Nazi parties should be outlawed, but it seems that the government is not able to do that (according to the article).

Should be interesting. Anybody notice that much of the neo-nazi stuff happens in the former East-Germany. My German teacher says it has to do with East-Germany never taking responsibility for the war.

While your German teacher may have a point, most of it has to do with the fact that after the war, Germany was split up by the Allies. The Americans and British would occupy the new West Germany and the Soviets would control East Germany. Given the animosity between Germans and Russians, the citizens suffered terribly (as did most Russians), at the hands of the Communist regimes.

During the Hiter-era, most Germans enjoyed the kind of life Hitler promised them. But under the Communists they lived a life of hell. You see what I'm getting at?

BOTTOM LINE
East Germans lived better under Hitler than the Commies, which has created a new generation of anti-Communist Nazi sympathizers.

Of course there is more to it than what I have written, but thats basically the reason for the growing neo-Nazi movement in Eastern Germany.

hey Jugend, would you mind clarifying your own position so we all know what to think of you?

hey Jugend, would you mind clarifying your own position so we all know what to think of you?
My position is not at issue, lets stick to the topic.

While your German teacher may have a point, most of it has to do with the fact that after the war, Germany was split up by the Allies. The Americans and British would occupy the new West Germany and the Soviets would control East Germany. Given the animosity between Germans and Russians, the citizens suffered terribly (as did most Russians), at the hands of the Communist regimes.

During the Hiter-era, most Germans enjoyed the kind of life Hitler promised them. But under the Communists they lived a life of hell. You see what I'm getting at?

BOTTOM LINE
East Germans lived better under Hitler than the Commies, which has created a new generation of anti-Communist Nazi sympathizers.

Of course there is more to it than what I have written, but thats basically the reason for the growing neo-Nazi movement in Eastern Germany.

Wow, that's remarkably insightful. Kudos.

fine. So back to the topic, what do you think of thousands of neo-nazis marching past a holocaust memorial on V-E Day?

fine. So back to the topic, what do you think of thousands of neo-nazis marching past a holocaust memorial on V-E Day?
It must be allowed.
Germany is a Democratic Republic.
Its bad enough that they ban Nazi symbols.

:rolleyes: A party would be private, thus you can exclude who you want.


the point i'm trying to make is that there is something called tact and respect, which the nazis seem to have lost somewhere (if they ever had it in the first place)

While your German teacher may have a point, most of it has to do with the fact that after the war, Germany was split up by the Allies. The Americans and British would occupy the new West Germany and the Soviets would control East Germany. Given the animosity between Germans and Russians, the citizens suffered terribly (as did most Russians), at the hands of the Communist regimes.

During the Hiter-era, most Germans enjoyed the kind of life Hitler promised them. But under the Communists they lived a life of hell. You see what I'm getting at?

BOTTOM LINE
East Germans lived better under Hitler than the Commies, which has created a new generation of anti-Communist Nazi sympathizers.

Of course there is more to it than what I have written, but thats basically the reason for the growing neo-Nazi movement in Eastern Germany.

Didn't the French also get a slice of western Germany?

Yes but the French didn't bring the Stasi with them.

Yes but the French didn't bring the Stasi with them.

And they returned it to West Germany after a few years rather than decades.

[QUOTE=The Hitler Jugend
East Germans lived better under Hitler than the Commies[/QUOTE]

Yeah, except for those East Germans who happened to be EXTERMINATED. Not a very ideal life for them, right?

Yeah, but see thats the point. For those that weren't going to the Death Camps, germany seemed a fairly pleasent place to live. When the communists came everyone was equally an enemy of the state. Of course for those that were living the Aryan highlife on the back of Jewish slave labor, this was a big let down.

ah, yes.. one of the great double-standards of liberalism today:

you can say anything you want, as long as I agree with it. The second you become un-politically-correct, you must be silenced.
Shut up. No liberals had even said anything yet you presumed to answer for them.

I am a European liberal and, although extremely worried about the increase in racism, I think Nazis should be allowed to march. Indeed, I think that if they were outlawed they would likely gain more support.

During the Hiter-era, most Germans enjoyed the kind of life Hitler promised them. But under the Communists they lived a life of hell. You see what I'm getting at?
Bullshit. I know a woman who lived in communist East Germany and she said that although things were not great, everyone had a job. It certainly was not the living hell you claim it to be.

This reminds me of a nostalgia East Germans seem to have developed for the soviet era. Though those times were not exactly peechy, it seems that communism has its charms. has anyone seen the film "Goodbye Lenin?"
But back to the topic. Nazism is growing alarmingly in germany, why, and why specifically in east germany?

Its liberal pacifist that let Nazi-Germany rise in the first place. They should be outlawed in Germany. There is no question about it. There is no room for negotiation with people like Neo-Nazis.

Its liberal pacifist that let Nazi-Germany rise in the first place.
Not really. The governments of England and France were simply more concerned with the depression at the time to bother actually implementing the Versailles treaty, which they were having guilt-trips about anyway. It was sort of a state of denial, not liberality and concious pacifism.
I feel that they should be outlawed too, but as swimmingpool says, that could make it worse. I just don't know, which is why I started this thread.

Shut up. No liberals had even said anything yet you presumed to answer for them.

I am a European liberal and, although extremely worried about the increase in racism, I think Nazis should be allowed to march. Indeed, I think that if they were outlawed they would likely gain more support.

I was speaking of some liberals... not necessarily in here.

Should be interesting. Anybody notice that much of the neo-nazi stuff happens in the former East-Germany. My German teacher says it has to do with East-Germany never taking responsibility for the war.

I am East German, and it's mainly about the economic, political and everybody's private situation being even worse than in the rest of the country.
Anyway, I guess thewhole issue is actually an attempt to get everybody's attention away from the interior policy our government is running now. It's abominable, and they need something else to broadcast about. The problem isn't half as big as it looks, and merely declaring the neo-nazis imbecile and laughing at them worked for the last few decades.

I maybe mistaken, but are the KKK in the United States not still allowed to march? I'm pretty sure they are. Same difference. That's what freedom is. There is a quote about it some where, I forget it exactly, but some thing to the effect of;

Free speech is spending a lifetime defending the right of someone whose speech makes your blood boil. Of defending the right of someone to say something that is unpopular. Popular speech needs no defense, it is the unpopular speech that is always in jeopardy.

where's this 'Nazis are right wing' crap come from?

totalitarianism = leftism

It's very sad to see what is happening in East Germany due to capitalism which has ruined a once great nation and is responsible for the poison of racism which is being encouraged by the far right fascist thugs of the NPD. While the destruction of capitalism is the only way to eradicate racism I also believe these groups should be shut down by the government like they were in the DDR. Fascism can never be defeated by appeasing it and a relentless struggle by the progressive working class movements is required to fight this vile ideology.

I'm reviving this just because I think its important, and I'd like to hear from more europeans. *waits*

I read this in today's paper
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050226/GERMANY26/TPInternational/?query=NPD
for thse of you in Germany, or elsewhwere in Europe, how do you feel about the issue of growing support for parties like the NPD? Is it actually serious, or exagerated? should thye be outlawed, or not allowed to march, especially on V-E Day?

I'm American, not German, but I think that the best thing to do is just let them march, but kill the fanfare. They're just doing it for the attention anyway.

A democracy must be able to handle right-wing extremes. I do not like this thinking that they should be banned, just because they do not goose step with the "established" 2-party system. If I could, I would happily remove the democracy we have now and get rid of all the corrupt, fat, lazy politicians who work for their own good and never think what the people want.

EU constitution referendums are happening in various places, but not in Germany, because the people might vote "No" and the politicians fear this. It's the general environment in Germany with millions of jobless people, ever more drastic reductions in the social welfare sector and grants for the rich or no-tax for the big corporations. There is a growing sentiment that our democracy is unable to solve our problems and thus people vote for the NPD.

This is also due to the other parties (mainly the 2 established ones: SPD and CDU) having NO solution to the problems. Instead, we get Hartz 4 which is legalized slavery while the politicians raise their salary or invent another special grant for themselves. It's this bigotry among our political class, which has resulted in distrust of politicians and democracy as it is. If anything, the right-wing extremes will become more powerful in the next years.

My grandfather actually says that Germany will collapse 2006. I can't wait for it, because I am sick of how things are being done here.

Ein Deutscher']Instead, we get Hartz 4 which is legalized slavery


Hartz 4 is not legalized slavery

What you are aiming at, is that if you refuse to take a job , you wont get money from the state

I really dont have a problem with that

(there are of course exceptions, if there are valid reasons why you cannot take the job, you dont have to take the job)


P.S.

The only reason why the NPD is not banned yet, is because too many spies were sent in some years ago.

I would say in 10 years, we will see it flushed down the dump :)

Well, the current problem is the high unemployment. Up to 30% in the East (Kohl destroyed over 50% of the jobs after the take-over). In some cities the unemployment is over 60%. It would be higher, if scores hadn't left already.

In a few years, unemployment will reach pre-third-reich levels and people will elect anybody who has promises for them.

The neo-nazis like North Korea and Saddam's Iraq (they even wanted to send German nationalist troops to help Saddam in the previous Gulf war).

So, if Germany becomes Nationalist and Socialist again, who cares, as long as they don't start a war? With the iron curtain gone, you can travel in Europe without having to touch Germany - just make a big wall around it, like they had before in Berlin.

The governing and opposition parties put aside deep differences this week and agreed to pass a law by March 11 that would make it easier for police to ban public demonstrations by limiting the right to public assembly.

The ways this could be twisted around, well, the wording just sounds dangerous.