NationStates Jolt Archive

The BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/health/4286435.stm) ran this story.

So, the scientists involved want to cover their asses by saying "weed can fight help prevent your brain from rotting in your skull as you are gradually and humiliatingly reduced through childhood to vegetation, but that doesn't mean you should go and use it because if we said that then someone would blame us for their 15 year old wanting to lay around watching spongebob cartoons and eating snackfoods," but still one more sound medical use for marijuana.

Prevent Alzheimer's (hyperbole, so sue me), cure cancer (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000EA0BF-1BE4-1121-927783414B7F4945), relieve chemotherapy, and alleviate pain. Despite all this we still have a government that thinks that "what if kids try it?" is enough of an excuse to keep it illegal.

Yes, wouldn't it be terrible if American's started eating too much junkfood and watching bad TV, and didn't pay attention when the government started screwing them over?

Whenever I hear people defend marijuana prohibition their arguments never really hold themselves up to scrutiny and yet the same relative handful keep coming back despite having been proven stupid.

The first one is that drugs are just plain bad. So what? Why does anyone have a right to tell me how well I'm allowed to treat my body? Are their plans on the books to outlaw bacon cheeseburgers because of the harmful effects of cholesterol and nitrates?

Usually after that one is plainly useless because while defending the conservative side of things you have to advocate personal responsibility so then they argue that there are bad effects on family and friends. "Drugs tear families apart." Really? More than locking someone up in jail? I doubt it. More than Uncle Charlie dying of emphazema or scirosis of the liver? Then why are alcohol and cigarettes legal?

When they see that that argument is demonstrably retarded they'll try another one. "Drug crime is going to ruin this country, we have to wipe these people out, they're KILLING OUR CHILDREN!!! :wailing and gnashing of teeth:"
So why don't we just run them out of business? Legalize it and let people take care of their own damn kids. Personal responsibility, that's what the republicans are always yammering about. Once anyone can grow their own no one can make a profit selling it.

"You're supporting terrorists" :whips out cell phone to call the NSA on your ass: A) no, our allies sell drugs, Al-Queda outlawed narcotics in Afghanistan. B) TERRORISTS DON'T SELL POT. C) Same as above, if you legalize it then they can't make money off of it.

I may be forgetting some so if anyone can think of an argument for outlawing marijuana that appears to make sense, justifies all of the pain and suffering that patients who could benifit from it must endure because of prohibition, and might stand up to more than a milisecond of scrutiny please share it with me, because if there is a single sane justification for the appearant mania that has siezed this country, and many others for over 70 years now I'd love to hear it.

B) TERRORISTS DON'T SELL POT.

Ergo: the IRA, UVF and the UFF aren't terrorists?

Ergo: the IRA, UVF and the UFF aren't terrorists?

I would have thought it was clear from context that I was talking more about this (http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/19873/) rediculous sort of claim than refuting the notion that there is such a thing as a terrorist who is willing to sell marijuana.

I was refuting George W. Bush's retarded claim that if you use any illegal drug that you are financing America's terrorist enemies. A charge that is inapplicable to marijuana, despite the rediculous claims I linked above.

It does however make personality changes and in the long run can lead to hallucinations.
I know several people who started, got addicted, quit, and noticed the personality bit. And that's irreversable :(

It does however make personality changes and in the long run can lead to hallucinations.
I know several people who started, got addicted, quit, and noticed the personality bit. And that's irreversable :(


my father used to drive the short buses, and there was a girl on there that had no genetic defect, but when she was a baby, they used to blow marijuana smoke in her face and watch her get high. This is why it should be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people (most of the world)

Well, IMO, marijuana is not even a drug.

You'd be surprised to know the number of people who come into psychological practices with problems directly related to pot...

my father used to drive the short buses, and there was a girl on there that had no genetic defect, but when she was a baby, they used to blow marijuana smoke in her face and watch her get high. This is why it should be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people (most of the world)
There are going to be dumbasses who do stupid sh*t no matter what you do. Making things illegal doesn't stop people from being dumbasses, it just makes them get creative about it, like sniffing gasoline or creating an underground market that brings more crime.

It does however make personality changes and in the long run can lead to hallucinations.
I know several people who started, got addicted, quit, and noticed the personality bit. And that's irreversable :(
Living leads to personality changes, irreversable ones at that....

its not legal because people (politicians) would lose money because they are in the pockets of drug lords.

One would think that capitalist Republicans would support legalization of pot.. I mean, it does open a whole new market.

Well, if you even read the study...

What was done was the scientists dissected some human brains and found something related to cannabinoids and receptors in patients who had alzheimers.

As a result, they injected some rodents with various types of these cannabinoids. In fact, they were specific with what they injected.

In fact, this study only lends credence to the charge that certain types of cannabinoids are good, but that when you smoke pot you also get the bad.

This article in NO WAY SUPPORTS SMOKING POT AS HEALTHY.

Harriet Millward, of the Alzheimer's Research Trust, said there were two main types of cannabinoid receptor, CR1 and CR2.

"It is CR1 that produces most of the effects of marijuana, including the harmful ones.

"If it is possible to make drugs that act only on CR2, as suggested by the authors of this study, they might mimic the positive effects of cannabinoids without the damaging ones of marijuana.

"However, this is a fairly new field of research and producing such selective drugs is not an easy task.

"There is also no evidence yet that cannabinoid-based drugs can slow the decline in human Alzheimer's patients."

C'mon kids, whose got an alternate interpretation?

my father used to drive the short buses, and there was a girl on there that had no genetic defect, but when she was a baby, they used to blow marijuana smoke in her face and watch her get high. This is why it should be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people (most of the world)

Well drinking alcohol while pregnant has been proven to cause birth defects and that's still legal. There are all sorts of things that can hurt and even kill people if not used properly. We have no laws against drain cleaner nor even any rules against keeping it under the sink.

But if anecdotal evidence is a sufficient case against well then...

A handful of women say that their morning sickness threatened miscarriage, the doctor put her on drugs that cause the baby to be born premature. Succeeding babies were borne with the use of marijuana to alleviate morning sickness and the babies were born healthy and pink and carried to term.

A friend of mine was dying from ulcerative colitis. The doctor gave her steroids which did nothing and recommended a colostomy. Instead she started smoking marijuana and started drinking a cocktail of herbal teas. Today she has recovered completly and her doctors tell her that it's impossible, even though she was given three seperate diagnoses before recovering.

So some people's lives will be saved if they are allowed access to it, some people will use it badly if they are allowed to use it. Unless you are willing to argue that we outlaw everything that ever hurts a kid this argument does not justify prohibition.

I'm glad that Marihuana is illegal. I don't like the idea of coloreds, and other ethnic types, being high and coming into town to rape our women.

my father used to drive the short buses, and there was a girl on there that had no genetic defect, but when she was a baby, they used to blow marijuana smoke in her face and watch her get high. This is why it should be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people (most of the world)

I know parents who let doctors give their kids experimental mood altering drugs before kindergarten and thru many of his childhood years, and he wasnt able to finish high school because he started getting hallucinations and intense behavior disorders during his high school years. Anyone can be stupid with anything. But what you do is incarcerate people for hurting others in ways such as these. Not make the substance illegal because then you are creating a black market in which only the criminals make money. People who buy illegal drugs fund gangs, people who buy legal drugs fund businessmen and our economy. Think about it.

You'd be surprised to know the number of people who come into psychological practices with problems directly related to pot...

as well as alcohol, pcp, heroin, codine, and ritalin

treating drug abusers as criminals is no way to give them treatment for their problem. it's like arresting people for being alcoholics!

I, being from Canada, am a strong supporter of legalizing marijuana. Our gov't has legalized medicinal marijuana, and even sell and grows marijuana to be sold at low, affordable prices. We've De-criminalized pot, so if you have less than 15 oz., your legal, but we're just waiting for the full repeal of the law.

Johnny Wadd- I've noticed that all of your posts are derogitory or flaming in nature. While I ahve no power to stop you, I will ask you to do so anyway, as your presence lowers the "community feel" that this place has.

I'm glad that Marihuana is illegal. I don't like the idea of coloreds, and other ethnic types, being high and coming into town to rape our women.

yes because we all saw "reefer madness" and what a danger pot smokers are. :rolleyes:

Johnny Wadd- I've noticed that all of your posts are derogitory or flaming in nature. While I ahve no power to stop you, I will ask you to do so anyway, as your presence lowers the "community feel" that this place has.

Sure thing, hippy! Try to remeber you have your beliefs as do I. I do not hide the fact that I am a bigot, why should I?

Not every post is that way. Just a few on these silly threads.

"community feel"?? Dude wtf, are you high now?

yes because we all saw "reefer madness" and what a danger pot smokers are. :rolleyes:

Would you like the pilot of your airliner whacked out of his gourd, high on the devil weed?

In my profession, I have had to deal with many "peaceful" marihuana addicts. They are not peaceful by any means. So before you attempt to make some stupid link between my statements and that stupid film, get the facts, and learn. Go on a ride along with your local police. They'll show you just how wonderful pot is.

"community feel"?? Dude wtf, are you high now?

I am.

Would you like the pilot of your airliner whacked out of his gourd, high on the devil weed?


just as much as I want him drunk on fire water. not in teh slightest. but making somethign illegal doesnt make it unavailable and people of all professions smoke pot responsiblily, just as people of all professions drink responsiblily. The same is true that people of all professions do lots of things irresponsibly too.

just as much as I want him drunk on fire water. not in teh slightest. but making somethign illegal doesnt make it unavailable and people of all professions smoke pot responsiblily, just as people of all professions drink responsiblily. The same is true that people of all professions do lots of things irresponsibly too.

Seems to be a bit irresponsible to put any poisons into your body, doesn't it?

Why did you bring up alcohol? I was referring to marihuana. It's alot easier for a pilot to be as high as a kite and not be noticed, whilst highly drunk, he will be caught and grounded.

Would you like the pilot of your airliner whacked out of his gourd, high on the devil weed?
No more than I'd like him to be drunk, or playing gameboy when he should be concentrating on his job. I prefer the pilot of an airliner I am travelling in, to not be engaged in giving the steward/ess a hair perm while he should be flying the plane, I'm not silly enough to conclude that gameboys, alcohol and hair perms need to be illegal in order for my preferences to be realised.

In my profession, I have had to deal with many "peaceful" marihuana addicts. They are not peaceful by any means.
Hang on, either they were peaceful and so couldnt have been not peacful, or they were not peaceful and so cannot be accurately described as peaceful....you are simply contradicting yourself.

So before you attempt to make some stupid link between my statements and that stupid film, get the facts, and learn.
One cannot make a stupid link, one can make an accurate link or an inaccurate link but not a stupid link.

Go on a ride along with your local police. They'll show you just how wonderful pot is.
Who said pot is any more wonderful than a McDonald's cheeseburger? What has wonderful got to do with whether or not something should be illegal?

It does however make personality changes and in the long run can lead to hallucinations.
I know several people who started, got addicted, quit, and noticed the personality bit. And that's irreversable :(

You can not get chemically addicted to pot, if you are "addicted" it's is a problem with your coping abilities.

Seems to be a bit irresponsible to put any poisons into your body, doesn't it?

Why did you bring up alcohol? I was referring to marihuana. It's alot easier for a pilot to be as high as a kite and not be noticed, whilst highly drunk, he will be caught and grounded.


he could be on a lot of mind altering substances and not be caught.

i brought up alcohol because it is a substance which can cause ill effects and it's legal. all alcohol prohobition showed us was that it pretty much funded an underground market which caused a lot of violence and death.

Theres no reason that you have brought up as to why it should stay illegal. it should be treated like alcohol and sold.

dont youb elieve in personal responsibility? if someone wants to have poor health then that is their perogative. you shouldnt make them criminals over it, then you would have to outlaw everything that is bad for you.

Would you like the pilot of your airliner whacked out of his gourd, high on the devil weed?

In my profession, I have had to deal with many "peaceful" marihuana addicts. They are not peaceful by any means. So before you attempt to make some stupid link between my statements and that stupid film, get the facts, and learn. Go on a ride along with your local police. They'll show you just how wonderful pot is.

Do you have any thing to back that up. How many violent marijuana users have you come across. Maybe the pigs are causing most of the problem eh?... think of that?

I persionally have never seen any violent acts caused by marijuana.

the only thing scared of stoners are snacks.

Would you like the pilot of your airliner whacked out of his gourd, high on the devil weed?

In my profession, I have had to deal with many "peaceful" marihuana addicts. They are not peaceful by any means. So before you attempt to make some stupid link between my statements and that stupid film, get the facts, and learn. Go on a ride along with your local police. They'll show you just how wonderful pot is.

Ever think they might 1) Be drinking or on other drugs at the same time or 2) Might have had their pot laced with something. Not everything is cut and dry as you may think.

The Anti Drug commercial that is blaming pot on all these crashes is tampered with, you can have pot show up in your system weeks after you tried it without effects on you. So yeah they can say it was in your system but quite frankly they can not prove that it is still actively in your system. Those "facts" are bias, they're twisted and have things intentionally left out.

I think it should be legal, but I also think it should be under the same type of rules as alcohol. Not while driving, working, etc. I do not think that one thing – at least in this country – that should be illegal for a person to do to themselves. To ones yes, that’s what government is here to protect us from each other, but we as long as in sound mind should be completely free to make decisions about ourselves.

the only thing scared of stoners are snacks.
:p Dude, that's goin' on my wall!

:p Dude, that's goin' on my wall!

im honored to make the wall

I would have thought it was clear from context that I was talking more about this (http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/19873/) rediculous sort of claim than refuting the notion that there is such a thing as a terrorist who is willing to sell marijuana.

I was refuting George W. Bush's retarded claim that if you use any illegal drug that you are financing America's terrorist enemies. A charge that is inapplicable to marijuana, despite the rediculous claims I linked above.

So, when you say 'TERRORISTS DON'T SELL POT' you don't actually mean 'TERRORISTS DON'T SELL POT'? Stupid me, I should have known.

"You're supporting terrorists" :whips out cell phone to call the NSA on your ass: A) no, our allies sell drugs, Al-Queda outlawed narcotics in Afghanistan. B) TERRORISTS DON'T SELL POT. C) Same as above, if you legalize it then they can't make money off of it.

Couple of things...

Al-qeada may have outlawed drugs, but the Taliban certainly didnt.
Remember that it was the Taliban, not Al-Qeada that ran Afghanistan.

The Taliban's major source of income was the sale of opium.
They sold a lot of it.

In fact, the regional warlords of Afghanistan have a standing policy with the Bush Administration.
They are allowed to conitnue selling opium that they grow in massive fields, mainly to support their armies, and in return, they allow The Kharzai Government to remain in power.

Not making this up.

20/20 has done several specials about this.

George Bush allows the trafficking of Heroin and other opiates in Afghanistan, even though he knows that the majority of those drugs, end up on U.S soil.

As for weed though..


Last year the federal government kept @750,000 people in prisons for possession of marijuana, or the sale of it.

At 30,000 dollars a year for room and board and 750,000 people..

Thats 22,500,000,000 dollars a year.

for those slower types..thats 22 and a half billion dollars.

Thats enough to buy a computer in every classroom in america.
Thats nearly one dollar for every star in the Milky Way.
Its enough to give every citizen in the US about 90 dollars each.

A gigantic, and prolific waste of phenomenal amounts of money, for a victimless crime.

No rational thinking person can honestly say that this money well spent.

yes because we all saw "reefer madness" and what a danger pot smokers are. :rolleyes:


"The Marijuana leaves and berries are a dangerous, and powerfully addictive drug."
-Reefer Madness.

You show me a marijuana berry, and I'll show you a dangerous drug.

Then....Im making a pie.

"The Marijuana leaves and berries are a dangerous, and powerfully addictive drug."
-Reefer Madness.

You show me a marijuana berry, and I'll show you a dangerous drug.

Then....Im making a pie.
I had the sadest rise and fall recently when I came up with the brilliant idea of staging Reefer Madness...it was genius! It was a lock, I was a mastermind. All I had to do was go home and get a transcript of the script and start the production design and decide where my awards would go. First thing that comes up on Google:The stage adaptation of Reefer Madness. Bastards traveled forward in time, stole my idea then went back in time and initiated it. I hate those time traveling idea stealing $%#*%&#$.......

POT THREAD!!! POT THREAD!!!

I love the pot threads on the boards. Some great lines come out of 'em sometimes. And what a great article. It's always nice when the positive benefits of marijuana are made public. Mind you there are obvious problems that can come from smoking marijuana, and the effects of marijuana can be different in some people than in the way it effects the vast majority of those who try/use it. Ingesting anything by burning it and inhaling the smoke without filtering it first will obviously carry certain other byproducts in the smoke itself. And due to differences in physiology small numbers of people have adverse reactions to everything from peanuts and milk to penicillin and aspirin. I'm allergic to both apple juice and penicillin. Doesn’t mean they should be illegal.

One of the biggest problems I see with heavy marijuana use is apathy and lethargy. But for a lot of people this isn’t such a bad thing. Plenty of people don’t get to be pilots and surgeons and the people whose performance really makes a difference in the world. Come on, does a janitor or some guy flipping a burger really need to not be able to smoke a joint when they get home from work? Cause that’s all it takes to blow a UA if you don’t get enough notice to flush your system. Hell, let ‘em be stoned while they’re doing these low-wage shit jobs if it makes the day a little easier. And any job where you have to deal with the general public as one of your main duties should definitely be exempt.

Too bad there's so much money being made by both sides from keeping pot illegal.

my father used to drive the short buses, and there was a girl on there that had no genetic defect, but when she was a baby, they used to blow marijuana smoke in her face and watch her get high. This is why it should be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people (most of the world)

People put whiskey in baby bottles to put them to sleep. Some people are just stupid crackheads and would do something else that was harmful no matter what substance they used to alter an innocent.

You'd be surprised to know the number of people who come into psychological practices with problems directly related to pot...

They already had the problem. Pot just helps them calm themselves from what haunts them.

I wish they would legalise it. Honestly, ounce to ounce it's more expensive than gold...

They already had the problem. Pot just helps them calm themselves from what haunts them.

Not always. I used to work with a guy who was normal until he started smoking too much pot, it bought out paranoied scitzophranic (spelling). :(

Yes, wouldn't it be terrible if American's started eating too much junkfood and watching bad TV, and didn't pay attention when the government started screwing them over?

The thing is, I started paying more attention to the government screwing us over after starting to smoke pot...

Not to mention, this country was founded by hemp farmers/smokers who proclaimed things like grow hemp everywhere. And it's a known fact George Washington smoked pot because he wrote a letter to his gardner telling him to make sure the male and female plants were separated in time, this is a step only necessary when you wish to smoke the buds of the female plant.

Not always. I used to work with a guy who was normal until he started smoking too much pot, it bought out paranoied scitzophranic (spelling). :(

You probably didn't really know him that well to begin with and he started smoking pot to relieve stresses that were the culprit behind his paranoia.

Let's go freedom.

I actually believe that Drug Laws are UnConstitutional...

It's ok, in your mind, to charge someone with a crime when no crime has been committed?

http://mu.clarityconnect.net/~ahimsa/lawful_arrest.html

Whether you are being arrested, witnessing an arrest, or sitting on a jury, this is the most important thing you need to know:

In every criminal case, always ask:

"What is the name of the victim, and the nature of the injury?"
"What is the name of the civilian that has made a complaint against the accused?"
"What is the evidence to suggest that the accused caused the injury to the victim?"
If they put the accused in jail, or threaten with this, then it is a criminal case.

http://mu.clarityconnect.net/~ahimsa/probable_cause.html

Remember that the purpose of the Bill of Rights was to protect the people from abuses committed by the government. But if "probable cause" is simply "reason to believe a crime has occurred", then it is the subjective determination of one person, the police officer, and an agent of the government. This interpretation offers the people little protection against harassment, given the number of obscure "laws" on the books that the people are subject to. Such a definition would give the police wide powers to detain just about anybody for any reason at any time. Hmmm....

WHICH CAME FIRST?

Also, there is a common misunderstanding as to the definition of "crime". Many people think that a crime is a "violation of the law", but this is a circular definition! Which came first, law or crime? If crime is "things which the law prohibits", and law defines "that which is crime", we have self-reference, a tautology, begging the question, a circular reference. Anyone who has studied logic will tell you that this has no meaning at all. (see any logic text, or: http://www.wdv.com/Writings/Stories/TheRules/fallacy.html)

The Founding Fathers wrote probable cause and not "reason to believe that a violation of the law occurred", because there was no law yet! They rejected English law, and they were defining the principles which would become their law. They obviously meant something different.

You see, we must all begin with an agreement of what is a crime BEFORE we codify the Law, or else we end up with a meaningless law that refers to itself, corruption of the courts, legislature, and the police, and people going to jail for absurd things like "possessing forbidden flowers", "not having proper paperwork", "having a bad opinion about the court" or "talking about doing something really nasty". (Wait! That IS what we have today...)

Regards,
Gaar

Prohibition failed, and eventually, weed laws will fail.