NationStates Jolt Archive

As science advances, and more and more scientists with a lack of moral fiber gain access to cloning technology, an interesting question popped into my head.

If a person is cloned, what happens to their soul?

Does the soul get halved and then rejoined in death? Then if one soul is evil and the other good, where does the recombined soul go?

Is it like Black Jack where the soul is split but both halves are of equal value to the original soul and therefore played out as totally separate hands?

Or don’t we worry about it because there is no such thing as a soul? (Bit sad but who you going to complain to?)

The floor is open…

Good question!

I think that even though the person is exactly the same genetically, they are actually a different person, and therfore would have a different soul.

Assuming the soul exists, nothing happens. Your clone is not you - for starters, he is your current age younger than you. He will never become exactly the same person, since he won't meet the same people during his life, have the same experiences etc. Compare it with twins.

is it not more like an identical twin?

You stay yourself, and your clone becomes a seperate sentient being.

The soul is divided in half. Each being gets half a soul. One gets the good traits, one gets the bad. I saw it happen on the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer when Xander got cloned by a demon's weird magic wand.

For that matter, where do souls come from? I mean, not too long ago we were only 1,000 million humans on the planet. Not it's over 6,000 million. Where did those souls come from. Furthermore, science people think that there have been around 50,000 million humans on the planet, where the souls there?

Some people believe that souls are created in the instant of conception, the same thing would happen the moment a body is cloned. Others believe that there's a big repository of shiny new souls in their original packaging somewhere, and they're just taken out as needed. Same would happen.

The real question is: if you get into the Star Trek transporter and your body is destroyed in pad A to be reassembled in pad B, what happens to your soul?

The soul is divided in half. Each being gets half a soul. One gets the good traits, one gets the bad. I saw it happen on the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer when Xander got cloned by a demon's weird magic wand.
Hey, same thing happened to captain Kirk during a transporter malfunction!

Hey, same thing happened to captain Kirk during a transporter malfunction!
Ok, then we've repeated the experiment and confirmed the outcome. Now we know what happens to the soul when one is cloned. I guess this thread's done.

The Fnords eat it. Duh.

Souls are like fingerprints. Each is unique. Only someday fingerprints will run out. Souls are more like humans in that case. Each is unique and no two are the same and tehre is an endless amount of them.

There isn't a such thing as a soul. :) Unless you mean it metaphorically, like personality or something...

If that's the case, then yeah -- clones are basically identical twins, except they are different ages. The "soul" would be a new one, since, like The Alma Mater had said, the clone would not experience the exact same things (in the exact same order) as the original person did in their life.

Unless memories can be cloned. Hmmmmm that makes me think :rolleyes:

I'll assume there is such thing as a soul for this argument.

I think it would be a completely different soul altogether. After all, our souls come into being whenever we become alive (which varies depending on who you talk to). I think that the soul of the cloned person would develop differently than the orignal's own, it would become another person. The soul would experience different things and respond in a different manner.

Some people believe that souls are created in the instant of conception, the same thing would happen the moment a body is cloned. Others believe that there's a big repository of shiny new souls in their original packaging somewhere, and they're just taken out as needed.

I think it is more on demand sort of production of souls, and no doubt the guy with the contract for soul creation is sitting on a gold mine, surely God would have outsourced.

Then there is the guy who needs to build and maintain the post life soul storage. Hoping its a bit mre of a hotel than a self storage.

the clone would receive its own unique soul at the moment it became a real person in the opinion of god. (supposing that the clone is for the purpose of making a new human benig and not jsut some way of making spare parts without having it develop into a fully functioning human being.) no different from identical twins which as some point along development each have their own individual and unique souls.

It depends on the type of cloning. With modern clones, its basicaly twins with differnt mothers, which (in my opinion) would count as two totaly seperate people, because they would develope totaly differntly.
In the future, if we develope some sort of Sci-fi insta cloning, it might be differnt.

The soul is divided in half. Each being gets half a soul. One gets the good traits, one gets the bad. I saw it happen on the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer when Xander got cloned by a demon's weird magic wand.
well there u go end of disscussion lock plz :P

Ah, but what is the soul? There is no proof of any such thing--no unexplainable mass, volume, or such. If they exist in an alternate realm, how do they interact with the body? If people are reincarnated, do they have the same soul, despite sharing no memories or starting material? But anyway, it is a moot point. Clones are merely similar, not identical. They would have different fingerprints, different birthmarks, probably even different birth weights. Indeed, conditions inside the womb could make a clone drastically different from their original. The clone's body would not be identical, either--veins, arteries, nerves, synapses and the like would all have different layouts than in the original.

The clone independently imagines, and thus creates, a second soul.

I would think they would have two entirely different souls, if souls exist. It seems to me as though you are defined to yourself by the sum total of objects which you percieve as defining/part of/interconnected with you, and a clone would grow up in a different situation, which I would think would cause them to define themselves in an entirely different way. All cloning gives is identical genetic material, not identical opportunities and lives.

Souls? What souls?

Well... if it's the modern day cloning method, the clone would be a completely different person, and, should souls exist, have a seperate one all to its own. I like to believe that souls exist, seperate from any religious ideology. (, it'd rock if we just got an option. Please choose your afterlife. For total oblivion, press one. For Valkryies and Feasting in Valhalla, press two. For an eternity in ironic hell, press three. *2* you have chosen three. Ironic hell. "NOOOES!")

But in the case of a clone that appears from something like a star Trek transporter or magic, the laws of physics claim that the clone will look identical, but be evil in every way. It'd also have a different soul, by extension. But it'd be blackened with pure evil.

Atheistic Might & Sel Appa....

Exactly.

if it happened on Buffy it must be true. Tho I prefer Sabrina the Teenage Witch - point and spark!

let me just say that i think cloning is wrong, when it happens, and i think it will, there will be big political implications...

but now for the good part. i have to agree with the person that says the clones will not share a soul, but will have their own. I dont know if the new clone would have all the old memories or not, but i think they would be their own individual person... or a slave with no personallity. has anyone seen the movie "multiplicity" thats what will happen. The copies will be totally diffrent, including their souls. In cloning, genetics are copied, not a persons personality or life.

The Fnords eat it. Duh.

Or maybe the sould becomes a Fnord, or splits up to become two sepreate Fnords, one good and one evil.
Or perhaps there is no such thing as a soul. Either way...

I think the question is addressed on Neon Genesis Evangelion, but I wouldn't know as I haven't seen the whole thing yet.

scientifically, clones are just like an identical twin of the original being. Nothing weird happens, they have their own soul, personality, experiences, and memory. That's why if you die and someone clones you the clone is still a different person from you. It just looks the same on the outside.
Like a box of chocolates. They all look the same but you don't know what filling they have until you bite them.

I think the clone would have their own soul, because it's not like you're splitting the person in half to create two people, you're just making a physically identical copy of the original person. It'd be like identical twins.<P>
I don't believe in God, and I believe that when we die we're reincarnated. So I think that when you die your soul moves on to another body, and you live a new life. I believe that animals have souls also, so while you may be a human now when you die you may become a dog or something. The amount of souls could be a constant, or it could change, I'm not so sure about that.. I think the amount of souls being constant would be reasonable, because while the human population is going up the population of other species is going down. They could even each other out. But even if that doesn't work, it brings into question the souls of other lifeforms on other planets. So, while life on our planet may rapidly grow, the life on another planet could be decreasing. If reincarnation is how it works, then would your coming back be limited to just Earth? Or could you go to a whole other planet in your next life? I don't see a reason why not. There are obviously holes in my theory, but I'm only young and don't need to know much about this.<P>P.S: Please don't reply to me trying to convince me of the existance of God. I'm not sure about the people on this site, but people have tried to convert me on other sites, and I just find it annoying.

:cool: i turn souls into shards and use them for spells :D
http://wow.stratics.com/content/statistics/travel/warlock_mount.jpg my horse

To rephrase the original question: What would happen to Soul if James Brown were cloned?

That is a really good question.

I support the idea that personality is developed by experiences in life, thus, your clone is going to be different based on how he/she is raised.

However, as for a soul, it looks like a new soul is created.

I really can't say much about this issue. It's all paradoxi, and paradoxi give me headaches... :headbang: as would that.

the soul is in the original body. souls can not be cloned, the clone will be a soul less empty shell and with out a soul a brain can not function so there for a clone will just be a worthless peice of junk.

the soul is in the original body. souls can not be cloned, the clone will be a soul less empty shell and with out a soul a brain can not function so there for a clone will just be a worthless peice of junk.
Hmm.
Then how come they can clone sheep and mice and such?

i eat souls...

i eat souls...

Then maybe you can answer the question definitively. If you eat the soul of a clone, and the soul of the original person from whom the clone was, er, cloned, can you taste a difference?

(((Damnit. I lost the message I was going to post. So, lemme see if I can remember what I said! Huh.)))

Guys, guys, guys. (And gals.)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SOUL!

(((Then I said something about my opinion of a "soul" is basically the personality of someone, not a physical thing like what Atheistic Might said)))

And the thing I had said about passing on memories when people are cloned, Smcklivia -- that is not possible.

(((I think I may have said something after that, like that'd be interesting if we could clone memories, which may actually become possible in the future I think.... but not sure)))

G'day.

well since i am mormon only humans are able to have a soul

Then maybe you can answer the question definitively. If you eat the soul of a clone, and the soul of the original person from whom the clone was, er, cloned, can you taste a difference?
naw all souls taste the same there pretty bland =/

*eats Pastafaria's soul*

naw all souls taste the same there pretty bland =/
They're very nutritious though.

*eats Pastafaria's soul*

Bland? Bland?! How dare you say my soul was bland! I had one spicy soul, mother*&#^&$!

Alas, now I have no more soul. I will have to steal the soul of my clone.

Bland? Bland?! How dare you say my soul was bland! I had one spicy soul, mother*&#^&$!

Alas, now I have no more soul. I will have to steal the soul of my clone.
You might not have soul, but I suppose you could still have the blues, or funk. So you've still got some options open.

You might not have soul, but I suppose you could still have the blues, or funk. So you've still got some options open.

Ooh, ooh! See my post at the top of the page!

I knew the conversation would come around to this eventually.

Ooh, ooh! See my post at the top of the page!

I knew the conversation would come around to this eventually.
:D
The real question is, can you have funk if you got no soul?
Or something like that, I think.

Bland? Bland?! How dare you say my soul was bland! I had one spicy soul, mother*&#^&$!

Alas, now I have no more soul. I will have to steal the soul of my clone.
well ok not all are so bland... ur was kinda sour...

ur was kinda sour...
I demand you regurgitate my soul and return it to me immediately!

*hands over brown pile of whats left of soul* :eek:

A Person is their soul.

A Body is Just the Hardware that it Occupies for awhile. :cool:

Although the original question begs the question "What is a soul?"

Well that depends on your religion or lack thereof, now doesn't it? :D

Suffice to say that I am myself, and my clone would be himself.

TQ

You get an extra, so you can make a deal with the devil and get a full refund.

As science advances, and more and more scientists with a lack of moral fiber gain access to cloning technology, an interesting question popped into my head.
Moral fiber is difficult to identify.

If a person is cloned, what happens to their soul?
I'm an agnostic. I'm not sure whether or not there is a soul. But I'll proceed believing that there is, indeed, a soul.

Does the soul get halved and then rejoined in death? Then if one soul is evil and the other good, where does the recombined soul go?
This view is too simplistic. How do you "halve" something spiritual? Can you measure a person's soul, quantify it, tag it? No. You can't. Nobody can. Nobody knows where it is or what it is, exactly. It defies physics. And why does one half of the soul have to be evil and the other half good, presuming that a soul is quantifiable, possessing limits and boundaries? Your questions lack logic.

Or don’t we worry about it because there is no such thing as a soul? (Bit sad but who you going to complain to?)
Is this sarcasm?

we are the sum of our experiences.

every time something happens in your life that introduces you to new ideas, or shifts your perspective even slightly, you become a new person.



now that i have stated that cloned people are, in fact, different people, let's move on to the next part of the discussion:

the soul


define soul.

once we have a working definition that we can all agree on, we can discuss whether or not they have a common soul

*hands over brown pile of whats left of soul* :eek:

Oboy! I got my soul back.

Is this sarcasm?

No sarcasm intended, it is something I believe.

Personally I believe in God, hence a soul.

Should I be wrong, as I have been told by numourous people in this forum, who do I complain to when I die and there is nothing.

Alternatively if I am reincarnated, who do I need to bribe in this lifetime to ensure I dont come back as someones yeast infection.

Moral fiber is difficult to identify.

It's what allows a soul to go easily through Teh Cameron Clan's digestive system.

It's what allows a soul to go easily through Teh Cameron Clan's digestive system.

Oh, I'm loaded with moral fiber. My soul is what you call Spiritual Shredded Wheat.

Alternatively if I am reincarnated, who do I need to bribe in this lifetime to ensure I dont come back as someones yeast infection.
Yo. The price is your soul. Which means you don't get reincarnated at all.

Ok, then we've repeated the experiment and confirmed the outcome. Now we know what happens to the soul when one is cloned. I guess this thread's done.
But Professor Fansworth is amoral. So is Cubert. The hypothesis has been falsified.

I think you'd love Star Trek. It's got all sorts of philosophical questions like that.

In one, a transporter accident makes a copy of Mr Riker as he's beamed off a planet, leaving the copy behind. They come back 8 years later and find a scraggly unshaven Riker hiding where they left him. The two clones instantly hate one another and can't even stand being in the same room together. The tension culminates in a poker match they play where they know each other's poker faces and neither one can come out the winner. By the end the clone has gotten a different hair do, changed his name, and done everything he can to create an identity that is different from the original Riker.

I think you'd love Star Trek. It's got all sorts of philosophical questions like that.

Does Data have a soul? What about the holographic doctor on Voyager? Do Klingons have souls? Do Vulcans? Ferengi? Does Kurzon Dax have one soul, or two?

Does each of Jeffrey Combs' characters have his own soul, or do they all share one?

Please. Haven't you people seen Total Recall?

The clone is exactly the same in every way, and thinks that you're the clone. Then you come to realize that you ARE the clone!

Does Data have a soul? What about the holographic doctor on Voyager? Do Klingons have souls? Do Vulcans? Ferengi? Does Kurzon Dax have one soul, or two?

Does each of Jeffrey Combs' characters have his own soul, or do they all share one?

Ah, the endless mysteries...
That's what I like about good scifi

Please. Haven't you people seen Total Recall?

The clone is exactly the same in every way, and thinks that you're the clone. Then you come to realize that you ARE the clone!

Well, I know I'm not the clone. Believe me, I could tell if I was the clone.

You know, I've been thinking about it some more and I'm beginning to wonder... am I the clone?

You know, I've been thinking about it some more and I'm beginning to wonder... am I the clone?


Do you have a strange outgroth somewhere? All clones have that...

As for the original question....does twins share the same soul? If I would belive in that souls exist I would say "no"...hence clones will not have the same soul.

The "soul" does not exist. The clone would become a sentient being. Personality happens in the brain only.

Ein Deutscher']The "soul" does not exist. The clone would become a sentient being. Personality happens in the brain only.
the soul does too exist because thats who we are

Keep the Soul alive!

the soul does too exist because thats who we are
Prove it. Otherwise, I call BS.

Ein Deutscher']Prove it. Otherwise, I call BS.
I just did prove it--you posted something didnt you? theres your proof. You couldnt have posted without your soul

Mind, consciousness, both are unchanged in you, and the clone would get a fresh set.

Assuming there's any sort of immortal-ish soul involved in all this, there'd be a new that too.

As for philosophy on the soul, again assuming that there are such things, I'm thinking reincarnation. Whether that leaves room for persistence of memory between lifespans, or merely that of perception, is anyone's guess. If there's more sentient life than there are souls without bodies? Instance some new ones. And if the balance is reversed, i.e. more souls than bodies? Some bog on some backwater somewhere's getting hit with life and/or sentience right about now.

Think of the universe as a massive spatial database, with infinite expandability and presently a finite dataset size. (Obviously it would be hard for the number of souls to go over however many atoms there are at present.)

Ask James Brown.

I just did prove it--you posted something didnt you? theres your proof. You couldnt have posted without your soul

So I ask this guy, while showing him a refillable spray bottle of, I dunno, like Windex or something, "You want some elephant repellant?"

He, of course, says "Why would I need that? There aren't any elephants around here."

I ponder and reply, "Hmm... so it works."

Compare to what you just said. You're taking the existence of a soul as a postulate, without any empirical basis. Kinda like me and the efficacy of the blue liquid titled elephant repellant in that parable.

Be careful with that.

it makes me wonder if the future we can transfere our consiousssess into computers or robots, would we still be human inside? would we have a consious? would we have a soul? :) i love asimovs' stuff

As science advances, and more and more scientists with a lack of moral fiber gain access to cloning technology, an interesting question popped into my head.

If a person is cloned, what happens to their soul?

Does the soul get halved and then rejoined in death? Then if one soul is evil and the other good, where does the recombined soul go?

Is it like Black Jack where the soul is split but both halves are of equal value to the original soul and therefore played out as totally separate hands?

Or don’t we worry about it because there is no such thing as a soul? (Bit sad but who you going to complain to?)

The floor is open…
For this to have any meaning, you first have to prove that there's such a thing as the soul. Then, if you want to know what happens to it, then you need to know what it's made of, where it presides, what it's properties are, etc. Answer those questions and your original question will have some meaning.