NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is a question for both the religious and non religious folks (though non I estimate will see a smaller reaction/affection)

How would your outlook on religion (in general or specifics) be effected by the existence of extra-solar life?
(now some specifics)
1) if it was non sentient life but older then us by far
2) non sentient life but older
3) (might be a big one) if they were sentient
4) They were sentient and older then us

Now if they are sentient and happened to be far more advanced then us? Or more organized … or maybe more loving to their own kind if not us (I know some don’t believe in salvation by acts but it is still supposed to be proof of gods love)

I not sure how to word all what I am thinking but I am sure it will develop at some point… all I want to know is how will it effect your religion (for example finding out not only that life originated before the bible says it should be but before we existed)
So on and so forth

Just curious (this was brought up in a book called space and one called time by Stephan Baxter)

I'd still be an atheist. Plus I'd get a kick out of all the fundamentalists of any religion who think that they are the 'chosen' ones when they see how backward they really are compared to the little green men.

I'd still be an atheist. Plus I'd get a kick out of all the fundamentalists of any religion who think that they are the 'chosen' ones when they see how backward they really are compared to the little green men.
Was thinking along the same lines myself (replace atheist with agnostic lol)

Buddhism leaves room for the existence of life outside this planet, so not much would change! :)

I'd still be an atheist. Plus I'd get a kick out of all the fundamentalists of any religion who think that they are the 'chosen' ones when they see how backward they really are compared to the little green men.
yep :cool:

Buddhism leaves room for the existence of life outside this planet, so not much would change! :)

Though you might have to change the name. Especially if it turned out that Buddha was tught by one of these theoretical aliens. :p

I'll shut up now.

I'd still be an atheist. Plus I'd get a kick out of all the fundamentalists of any religion who think that they are the 'chosen' ones when they see how backward they really are compared to the little green men.
Same here. I'd like to see them impose religion on them, the beings would probably laugh.

I can almost guarentee that we are not the only ones in the universe...I and it doesn't affect my religious views. I believe God created them as well. ;)

Same here. I'd like to see them impose religion on them, the beings would probably laugh.
Or worse...they'd impose their own 'one true religion' on us! ARGHH!! YOU SHALL WORSHIP BELLY LINT, BECAUSE WE SAY SO!!!

Though you might have to change the name. Especially if it turned out that Buddha was tught by one of these theoretical aliens. :p

I'll shut up now.

Thanks, I got a good chuckle out of that. :p

Ya know, there are theories Jesus was an alien and that passages in the Bible prove this theory. Interesting stuff. (Then again, there are theories the three wise men were Buddhists and during the missing years of Jesus's life in the Bible they came back for him and took him to study Buddhism in India.)

"It's a small world after all...." ;)

Or worse...they'd impose their own 'one true religion' on us! ARGHH!! YOU SHALL WORSHIP BELLY LINT, BECAUSE WE SAY SO!!!
I would hope they would be smart enough to know better, but if not I'd still be an atheist.

Here is a question for both the religious and non religious folks (though non I estimate will see a smaller reaction/affection)

How would your outlook on religion (in general or specifics) be effected by the existence of extra-solar life?
(now some specifics)
1) if it was non sentient life but older then us by far
2) non sentient life but older
3) (might be a big one) if they were sentient
4) They were sentient and older then us

Now if they are sentient and happened to be far more advanced then us? Or more organized … or maybe more loving to their own kind if not us (I know some don’t believe in salvation by acts but it is still supposed to be proof of gods love)

I not sure how to word all what I am thinking but I am sure it will develop at some point… all I want to know is how will it effect your religion (for example finding out not only that life originated before the bible says it should be but before we existed)
So on and so forth

Just curious (this was brought up in a book called space and one called time by Stephan Baxter)

All aliens are sinners and must be smited with the edge of the sword at all costs!

Just kidding.

As an atheist, I wouldn't give a damn. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there was life on other planets, even life which was way more powerful than us.

If they came to Earth peacefully, I'd happily trade with them, talk to them and the like. If they came on an ethnic cleansing mission, or just for some good old fashioned warfare, I'd defend my property and person to the best of my ability. Or surrender, if it was bog-standard warfare and not "kill all humans".

No change, stil an atheist. Actually, I doubt we're alone but, I also won't be surprised if we never find any others simply due to the vastness of the universe.

No change, stil an atheist. Actually, I doubt we're alone but, I also won't be surprised if we never find any others simply due to the vastness of the universe.
what he said :)


well, i'm agnostic, but if anything the existance of extra-terrestrial lifeforms would only convince me more of the non-existance of deities

Same here. I'd like to see them impose religion on them, the beings would probably laugh.


Wasn't this a south park episode?

it wouldnt really change my beliefs,

im catholic, but i believe in a theistic evolution, not any of the bs about god making the earth in 6 days and the solar system only bein 10,000 years old

its incredibly likely that there is other life out there someplace, based on the enormous number of stars, so it would not surprise me or change any of my convictions.

obviously the specifics of the ets would change my reaction. I would be surprised to find sentient beings, because that is way less likely. The only way that is reasonable is if they are waaay more advanced than us

As a believer of religion x now that we have discovered intelegent lifeforms outside our solar-system I still believe in religion x. If there is no aparent religion x among said aliens it is only because the will of God is different for them than it is for us and some religion, say religion y, is God's true will for them.
Anarchists of the world unite!

I just felt a need to give a shoutout to my atheist brothers and sisters. Atheism is really misunderstood by the general public, at least in my experience. Atheism can actually be positive and fulfilling - Because my reason for living and doing good comes from within, it feels more personal and legitimate. Plus, when I do something good, I know I've done it for the sake of being good itself, not because I expect to be rewarded (or expect to avoid punishment). Plus, if I'm wrong and there is a God, I doubt he'll care that I didn't believe in him as long as I've led a good life and helped others, right?

Religious people seem to think that atheism is like a personal attack on their beliefs. I believe that truth is subjective though, so me choosing to believe that there is no god is actually just as arbitrary as them choosing to believe there IS a god. Thus, I don't take a moral high ground and brush off religious people as all being stupid and illogical. Most everyone I know is religious, and we're still friends. I get over it, they get over it, we move on.

If a religious person is doing good because of their religion, I'm not going to be upset because they have the wrong motives for doing good. I'll just be pleased they're doing good. It's only when people start to take the Bible too literally that I begin to have a problem. Even then, I don't hate them - hate hasn't really gotten us too far. I just think they were raised that way and haven't had an opportunity to escape their somewhat narrow-minded world view.

I am tolerant of religion, and all I really ask is that people be tolerant of my lack of religion in return. If you are religious, I don't have a problem with that, honestly. Just don't take it too far. And please don't assume that any atheist you meet has no morals or that (as has been said to me many times) their atheism is just a phase, or a fad, that will soon pass. Atheism is part of larger world view I have, and I've thought it through over and over. This philosophy is completely personal and flexible, but it gets me through the day.

It seems that people perceive atheists as a group to be gruff, unhappy people who lack meaning in their lives. This is simply not true. We are not waiting for you to shower us with the love of God. I am actually extremely happy and content with the direction of my life. I love my family, I love my friends, I love myself. Just don't try to make me love God - it won't work.

If you are religious, it is likely that your God is a loving one, and he probably has no problem with atheists doing good in the world.

so Actually, where are u going when u die?

They think there might be a chance at microscopic life on Europa under all that ice, but I read that a long time ago.

I think et-life would reinforce my athiesm.

I agree about people assuming stuff about athiests, too. They think that just because you don't believe in god/gods, you haven't really thought about your lack of belief and made a concious decision not to do it.

so Actually, where are u going when u die?

As a theist I can't say that I know. Besides that I have to trust God will take care of me, whatever happens. I'll worry about it when I'm dead.

Also as a theist, I think that the mere existence of extrasolar life wouldn't really affect my beliefs. Now, if the extrasolar life was sentient, any religious beliefs they had, or their opinion of my religious beliefs, WOULD certainly affect things. Especially if they were older.

So if these beings have some sort of a belief in a transcendent being or reality that is the origin and essence of the universe, my beliefs are greatly strengthened. If they think my beliefs are silly, the opposite happens.

I noticed a little flaw in my logic. I was assuming that older = more evolved = smarter. None of those equal signs are necessarily true.

so Actually, where are u going when u die?

Nowhere. I'm going to decompose.

What are the implications of no afterlife? It means that the only thing I will leave behind when I die is my legacy, which can best be defined as the sum of all my social interactions. My time here will be best spent making other people have better lives, not improving my own. Then I will be remembered as good, charitable person. The only part of me that will live on will be my legacy in the minds of the living.

I'll see you when we're both decomposing. Maybe someday, carbon molecules that were once part of our bodies will whiz by each other. But we won't know about it.

Since it appears that primarily atheists and agnostics have answered this so far... what about a 5th option?

We are visited by little green men that are a far more advanced & older race than we... and they say (without being specific as to which religion) "God exists, we know this because we've met God!"?

For those that are curious (and don't know already) I'm something of a Deist.

Since it appears that primarily atheists and agnostics have answered this so far... what about a 5th option?

We are visited by little green men that are a far more advanced & older race than we... and they say (without being specific as to which religion) "God exists, we know this because we've met God!"?

For those that are curious (and don't know already) I'm something of a Deist.
Fair enough ... how would this option effect thoes with faith? being that god has choose to present himselfs to others first (would reduce the "electness" of humanity)

We are visited by little green men that are a far more advanced & older race than we... and they say (without being specific as to which religion) "God exists, we know this because we've met God!"?

How would they know? Just because they're more advanced than us doesn't mean:

(a) They could reliably recognise a god if they met one.
(b) They would tell us the truth.

How would they know? Just because they're more advanced than us doesn't mean:

(a) They could reliably recognise a god if they met one.
(b) They would tell us the truth.

Because, for the sake of the hypothetical argument, we'll assume that they can offer verifiable proof.

Now I'm not suggesting that it has to be a Christian god they show us to be real but one (or several) of any number of deities.

well, i'm agnostic, but if anything the existance of extra-terrestrial lifeforms would only convince me more of the non-existance of deities
I don't necessarily see how the existence of aliens excludes the existence of God.

Church officials in the past have always been rather short-sighted about certain things. "The Earth is the center of the universe" comes to mind.

Almighty God need NOT limit His creation to the scope of what we can understand. Time and again, scientific study has found Gods creation to be far greater, far deeper, far more complicated than we previously believed. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one world. Gos does not have to limit Himself to creating one Sun. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one sentient species.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

I don't necessarily see how the existence of aliens excludes the existence of God.

Church officials in the past have always been rather short-sighted about certain things. "The Earth is the center of the universe" comes to mind.

Almighty God need NOT limit His creation to the scope of what we can understand. Time and again, scientific study has found Gods creation to be far greater, far deeper, far more complicated than we previously believed. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one world. Gos does not have to limit Himself to creating one Sun. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one sentient species.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

What gets me is that were the little green men to come to Earth in massive numbers and have their spaceship hovering around every settlement on the planet, there would still be people claiming it to be a Government conspiracy or that they're not really aliens but "agents of the Devil sent to test our faith".

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...

I really look forward to finding other sentient life in the universe. It'd give humanity a much needed boost of "humility".

Personally, I'd love to see the fundies try and

1. Half-ass their way out of alien life.
2. Condemn the aliens as "Satan's Children".
3. Atempt to convert them to their said religion.

I would line up, buy tickets, and bring cola and popcorn for anyone who'd like to join me in witnessing this great sight! :D

I don't necessarily see how the existence of aliens excludes the existence of God.

Church officials in the past have always been rather short-sighted about certain things. "The Earth is the center of the universe" comes to mind.

Almighty God need NOT limit His creation to the scope of what we can understand. Time and again, scientific study has found Gods creation to be far greater, far deeper, far more complicated than we previously believed. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one world. Gos does not have to limit Himself to creating one Sun. God does not have to limit Himself to creating one sentient species.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
I can deffinatly understand where you are comin from this

I was thinking in terms of traditional christian/catholic dogma or belief that puts them or humans in the center of everything

[QUOTE=Cogitation]

Church officials in the past have always been rather short-sighted about certain things. "The Earth is the center of the universe" comes to mind.

QUOTE]

That's certainly true. God is too huge and too and too complex for the church and church officials to be able to put Him in their own little box. God certainly had the capability to create sentient life. I personally won't believe it till I see it, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.

I really look forward to finding other sentient life in the universe. It'd give humanity a much needed boost of "humility".

Personally, I'd love to see the fundies try and

1. Half-ass their way out of alien life.
2. Condemn the aliens as "Satan's Children".
3. Atempt to convert them to their said religion.

I would line up, buy tickets, and bring cola and popcorn for anyone who'd like to join me in witnessing this great sight! :D

Somehow I'd be thinking I'd rather be anywhere but witnessing that. I only have a small tolerance for human stupidity.

I think it'd be all too easy for some people to convince themselves and others of any dumb idea. You know there are people who still claim the earth is flat, right?

[QUOTE=Cogitation]

Church officials in the past have always been rather short-sighted about certain things. "The Earth is the center of the universe" comes to mind.

QUOTE]

That's certainly true. God is too huge and too and too complex for the church and church officials to be able to put Him in their own little box. God certainly had the capability to create sentient life. I personally won't believe it till I see it, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.
The funny thing is it is organized believers that seem to put the most limits on what he can/will do even as they proclaim them omnipotent

Seems to me the Bible deals primarily with humanity and the events on Earth. How are events in the physical realm beyond Earth relevant to the Christian universe?

I am convinced there is life on other planets. What kind of life I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are other sentient life forms elsewhere in the universe. I also would expect them to be somewhat humanoid, not like the cape-wearing, spaceship-building, immortal, TV-watching aliens from Futurama...though Futurama is pretty much my ideal future world. It's unattainable, since people go to the edge of the universe and back in a week's time, they make war heroes out of pompous jackholes whose sole duty it is to pick fights with defenseless peoples, and everyone speaks perfect English. Also, Bigfoot exists.

That said, to say that any one group within Earth is "God's chosen people" is entirely possible, but the odds of it are pretty slim. Maybe God likes fire ants better than people. Maybe a hill of fire ants on Omicron Persei 8 is God's chosen, and the rest of us are second-best. The point is, it's almos a random crapshoot as to who God's chosen people are, or if there are any. Maybe we are all chosen; I don't know.

Because, for the sake of the hypothetical argument, we'll assume that they can offer verifiable proof.

How can you possibly have proof of a god? If they're more advanced than us, they should be able to easily enough create "proof" that we cannot find holes in. If I were an alien race that wanted to control Earth, that's pretty much what I would do.

I suggest that there is no way at all to prove existence of a god.

Personally, I wouldn't really care.




I'd still be an atheist. Plus I'd get a kick out of all the fundamentalists of any religion who think that they are the 'chosen' ones when they see how backward they really are compared to the little green men.

Would you still be an atheist is the aliens came with scientific proof that God exists? Would you still get you a kick out of the fundamentalists saying they’re the Chosen of God, and the aliens agree, and offered to protect them from their enemies?

My views are identical to Actually's. I can't think of anything to say that he/she didn't already cover so I'll leave it at this.

Three other comments:

- I like popcorn and have a large tolerance for witnessing human stupidity. Count me in.

- If you've ever been attacked by fire ants, you may well believe that they're at least the incarnation of a god's vengeance even if they're not the chosen creatures of one.

More seriously, I suspect many christian religions wouldn't see a major conflict with aliens. As long as you don't view humans as the centre of the universe, the bible could just be seen to address events on earth, rather than all of existence. Kind of like what Cogitation says.

Personally, I wouldn't really care.

Would you still be an atheist is the aliens came with scientific proof that God exists? Would you still get you a kick out of the fundamentalists saying they’re the Chosen of God, and the aliens agree, and offered to protect them from their enemies?

Anyone can be an atheist, even if God was to appear before them. As I myself have been lectured elsewhere in this forum, being an atheist does not always mean you deny the existence of God.

How can you possibly have proof of a god? If they're more advanced than us, they should be able to easily enough create "proof" that we cannot find holes in. If I were an alien race that wanted to control Earth, that's pretty much what I would do.

I suggest that there is no way at all to prove existence of a god.

Because I was putting forth a hypothetical situation. A make-believe instance on which to build some ideas for the sole enjoyment of seeing where they lead.

If you asked me "So, hypothetically speaking, if the universe was going to end in 5 minutes what would you do?" my reply wouldn't be an argument that there is no possible way that everything in the universe would cease to exist within 5 minutes :p

It wouldn't affect my beliefs (or lack there of) at all. I would have a hell of a wonderful time learning about them though.

Because I was putting forth a hypothetical situation. A make-believe instance on which to build some ideas for the sole enjoyment of seeing where they lead.

If you asked me "So, hypothetically speaking, if the universe was going to end in 5 minutes what would you do?" my reply wouldn't be an argument that there is no possible way that everything in the universe would cease to exist within 5 minutes :p

But a hypothetical example posits the occurence of something that is possible but does not reflect current reality. Your second paragraph describes such a situation. My argument is that the one in question can simply not happen at all, which makes supposition based on it nonsensical.

To answer your original question, I wouldn't believe them. Your second question is unanswerable because its premise is (IMO) fundamentally flawed.

But a hypothetical example posits the occurence of something that is possible but does not reflect current reality. Your second paragraph describes such a situation. My argument is that the one in question can simply not happen at all, which makes supposition based on it nonsensical.

To answer your original question, I wouldn't believe them. Your second question is unanswerable because its premise is (IMO) fundamentally flawed.

Ummm... which is my second question that is fundamentally flawed?

Ummm... which is my second question that is fundamentally flawed?

"What if they offer verifiable proof?" (it turns out it wasn't actually a separate question - sorry about that)

Since I disagree with the premise that such a thing is possible, I can't answer the question even in a hypothetical sense.

"How would your outlook on religion (in general or specifics) be effected by the existence of extra-solar life?"
"(now some specifics)"

Religion: Satanism
1) if it was non sentient life but older then us by far: No effect
2) non sentient life but older: No effect
3) (might be a big one) if they were sentient: No effect
4) They were sentient and older then us: No effect

Aliens would have no effect on Satanism. The only way aliens would affect Satanism, would be by attacking the human race. Then we would have to destroy them. Yes, I do believe in Aliens, you would have to be a fool not to. It's going to be Hella funny when religionist idoits try to covert them.

Posted by the Satanic Priest, Lord Medivh

"What if they offer verifiable proof?" (it turns out it wasn't actually a separate question - sorry about that)

Since I disagree with the premise that such a thing is possible, I can't answer the question even in a hypothetical sense.

Ahhh... I thought that you may have been talking about that, but the reference to "question" threw me since in theory the question you actually answered was my "2nd question" in this thread :D (yes I went back and counted, sad huh?).

But to have a go at my own question, if they offered me proof of God I'd be really happy.

Either because God would fit into the idea that I have in my head (which is really quite nice) or God is nothing like it at all in which case I'm going to burn in Hell. However, the nice thing about that is at least I'd be in there with all the other cool people. There are some people in this forum that are rather... staunch... in their belief that they are righteous and if those are the sorts of people going off to enjoy "heaven" then I would not want to be there.

My views are identical to Actually's. I can't think of anything to say that he/she didn't already cover so I'll leave it at this.

Sweet. Thanks for the support. I got your back.

And it's "he," for future reference.

But to have a go at my own question, if they offered me proof of God I'd be really happy.

[...]

But what if the god they prove has nothing to do with heaven or hell? Say, for example, the hindus & buddhists have it right, with their idea of reincarnation? Or if the supreme being's favourite race is these aliens and we're now supposed to subject ourselves to their whims? The possibilities are myriad and extremely varied. We might even be living in heaven (or hell, for that matter) at this moment.

How would your outlook on religion (in general or specifics) be effected by the existence of extra-solar life?
(now some specifics)
1) if it was non sentient life but older then us by far
2) non sentient life but older
3) (might be a big one) if they were sentient
4) They were sentient and older then us

Well, to be specific, the Bible's story of creation seems to apply only to this solar system, so my faith wouldn't be shaken by finding life older than our own. But if it were sentient that I think that we probably find that there would be something very similar to Christianity there. God's compassion extends across the universe, so I don't see why Christ (or whatever local name He's given) had already been there.

As an Agnostic, since I have no preconcieved notions on the pattern or plan for the cosmos, my belief system would be uneffected in any case.

But I probably would feel slightly vindicated somehow.