NationStates Jolt Archive


What will we do with Fred Phelps?

Bolol
24-02-2005, 04:58
Honestly...This guy is scum.

For those of you who do not know who this man is, he is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church and I'm convinced he has a serious weed up his ass.

What makes this man "special" is his complete and shameless audacity when it comes to his views.

Let me put it this way.

He praised the actions of 9/11 as an act of God. He viewed it as our punishment for our "fag-loving" policies. He then had the balls to send people to protest the recovery and rescue efforts, and assure the firemen, medics, and police that their dead comrades are in hell.

He celebrated the deaths caused by the tsunami and was especially happy when he learned that 20,000 Swedes died as a result. (He seems to have a real problem with Sweden's new policy on homosexuality).

He creates a weekly newsletter and mp3 sermons which he distributes through his site "godhatesfags.com".

What I want to know is...Why is this bastard still living?

He's 75 years old, and has been pissing people off since the 80s. Shouldn't he have been shot dead by now? I'm usually not a "violent" person, but this is one person I could turn a .44 on.

Thankfully he's dying of cancer and hopefully his organization dies with him.

I want to make this perfectly clear...this is NOT a rant against Baptists or Christianity in general. As I said before, fanatisism is not true religion, and it is men like Fred Phelps who give organized religion a bad name and distract people from its positive, unifying force.

Thank you for your time and patience. I look at this man with the utmost contempt, as my father worked as a rescuer during 9/11. (Personally I hope he beat the living shit out of a few of those guys).
Nationalist Valhalla
24-02-2005, 05:02
my father worked as a rescuer during 9/11.

you realize he'll probably go to hell for that, God doesn't like humans trying to mess with his plans, 'specially when he's got his wraith on.
Bolol
24-02-2005, 05:05
you realize he'll probably go to hell for that, God doesn't like humans trying to mess with his plans, 'specially when he's got his wraith on.

I really...really...hope you are being sarcastic.
Bitchkitten
24-02-2005, 05:21
Phelps should have been heavily medicated years ago. He's obviously a loon, and the psychiatric community should have jumped right on it.

BTW, I believe NV was sarcastic. He's way too right-wing for my tastes, but he's not a loon.
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 05:21
Honestly...This guy is scum.

For those of you who do not know who this man is, he is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church and I'm convinced he has a serious weed up his ass.

What makes this man "special" is his complete and shameless audacity when it comes to his views.

Let me put it this way.

He praised the actions of 9/11 as an act of God. He viewed it as our punishment for our "fag-loving" policies. He then had the balls to send people to protest the recovery and rescue efforts, and assure the firemen, medics, and police that their dead comrades are in hell.

He celebrated the deaths caused by the tsunami and was especially happy when he learned that 20,000 Swedes died as a result. (He seems to have a real problem with Sweden's new policy on homosexuality).

He creates a weekly newsletter and mp3 sermons which he distributes through his site "godhatesfags.com".

What I want to know is...Why is this bastard still living?

He's 75 years old, and has been pissing people off since the 80s. Shouldn't he have been shot dead by now? I'm usually not a "violent" person, but this is one person I could turn a .44 on.

Thankfully he's dying of cancer and hopefully his organization dies with him.

I want to make this perfectly clear...this is NOT a rant against Baptists or Christianity in general. As I said before, fanatisism is not true religion, and it is men like Fred Phelps who give organized religion a bad name and distract people from its positive, unifying force.

Thank you for your time and patience. I look at this man with the utmost contempt, as my father worked as a rescuer during 9/11. (Personally I hope he beat the living shit out of a few of those guys).


Wow, that's a threat to a man by name, not really very legal, is it?
DontPissUsOff
24-02-2005, 05:21
Gah. This is the thing that puzzles me so much. As I said to Hallad over MSN just now, how can a nation with an incredibly rich and diverse culture, a history filled with examples of idealistic, progressive men fighting for man's advancement, a phenomenal collection of brilliant minds and immense wealth and opportunity produce such a huge percentage of fat, stupid, insipid, ignorant, worthless pieces of crap?
Emperor Salamander VII
24-02-2005, 05:23
If you really hate the guy, let him die of natural causes.

Putting a bullet into someone like him will likely only turn him into a martyr of sorts.

Personally, I'm hoping there is some sort of afterlife and I'm also hoping that Phelps has it dead wrong. I'd also want an "Afterlife-Cam(tm)" to see the horrible look of dismay on his face when he grasps just how wrong he had it all.
Nationalist Valhalla
24-02-2005, 05:28
I really...really...hope you are being sarcastic.
No, no Rev. Fred is the Right(ie smiting) Hand of God. He knows who's holy and who's hell bound. 9/11 was the Lords righteous wraith come a knocking on Sodom City's door. All those who oposed the will of God and slaves of Satan, and they shall burn forever in the lake o'fire.
Bitchkitten
24-02-2005, 05:31
No, no Rev. Fred is the Right(ie smiting) Hand of God. He knows who's holy and who's hell bound. 9/11 was the Lords righteous wraith come a knocking on Sodom City's door. All those who oposed the will of God and slaves of Satan, and they shall burn forever in the lake o'fire.

I take it back, you are a nut.
Bitchkitten
24-02-2005, 05:32
Wow, that's a threat to a man by name, not really very legal, is it?
Actually he said he could do it, not that he would do it.
Patra Caesar
24-02-2005, 05:32
I think he also runs the website www.godhatesamerica.com (http://www.godhatesamerica.com)
Thelona
24-02-2005, 05:32
Wow, that's a threat to a man by name, not really very legal, is it?

No actual threat - a question and a hypothetical comment, but nothing that implies intent to carry out any actions.
Cannot think of a name
24-02-2005, 05:37
What would be great is if he was totally and completely ignored. Then he'd just be the batshit guy on the corner.
Anarchic Conceptions
24-02-2005, 05:41
I think he also runs the website www.godhatesamerica.com (http://www.godhatesamerica.com)

As well as the brilliant www.GodHatesSweden.com
Nationalist Valhalla
24-02-2005, 05:43
I take it back, you are a nut.
am not you evil godless woman... you should be spanked by the hand of righteous chastizement until you repent.
Pyro Kittens
24-02-2005, 05:53
I think he really is joking.
Bitchkitten
24-02-2005, 06:03
am not you evil godless woman... you should be spanked by the hand of righteous chastizement until you repent.

OOh, kinky. Are you gonna do this yourself? Sounds like it could be fun. :p
Cats Keep
24-02-2005, 06:07
My personal out look on this man and his adherents...

"When you die...don't come back"
Trammwerk
24-02-2005, 06:08
Thankfully he's dying of cancer and hopefully his organization dies with him.

Sounds like God is taking care of his own.
BLARGistania
24-02-2005, 06:10
You know, there is irony in this situation. Throughout his entire life of percieved righteousness in his eyes, he now has cancer. He's going to suffer from a very painful disease for his last few years on earth. I think I can bear his pain with a light heart. Remeber,

God loves the faithful. . . .








. . . yes, that last bit was sarcasm.
Zahumlje
24-02-2005, 06:13
Gah. This is the thing that puzzles me so much. As I said to Hallad over MSN just now, how can a nation with an incredibly rich and diverse culture, a history filled with examples of idealistic, progressive men fighting for man's advancement, a phenomenal collection of brilliant minds and immense wealth and opportunity produce such a huge percentage of fat, stupid, insipid, ignorant, worthless pieces of crap?

OK my take is that this piece of human garbage is in it for the money and perhaps even to get chicks. For all I know he's in it for even more perverted reasons.

Thanks to the person who pointed out that fanaticism isn't true religion no matter what flavor it comes in!


Guys like Phelps or Paisley to give examples are in a truely Christian sense blasphemers. 1. They put Christianity and Christians in disrepute. 2. They claim to be in direct contact with the Lord, and if in fact one is NOT in direct contact with the Lord, it is blasphemy to say one is, it is false prophecy and that dear friends is the only real death penalty offense in Christianity.

If really we had the 'Christian Nation' he and his friends wantesd, if in fact said Christian Nation fully observed Christian law he would be dead already.

Rejoiceing at any deaths whether of Christians or non-Christians is forbidden behavior.
I just had a wierd random though...

What if the Tsunami was the Rapture this wack bunch of heretics keeps talking about? What if all of us in fact were left behind includeing them!?
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 06:19
OK my take is that this piece of human garbage is in it for the money and perhaps even to get chicks. For all I know he's in it for even more perverted reasons.






He refuses to accept donations and never asks for them. If you offer him money, he turns it down. He believes churches are to be simple and not wealthy. Until you know more about him, please don't open your mouth and let ignorance or lies come out. Also, he is not in it for the "chicks" as you say. He has a large family, he is not interested in fornicating or adulterating.
Hammolopolis
24-02-2005, 06:24
He refuses to accept donations and never asks for them. If you offer him money, he turns it down. He believes churches are to be simple and not wealthy. Until you know more about him, please don't open your mouth and let ignorance or lies come out. Also, he is not in it for the "chicks" as you say. He has a large family, he is not interested in fornicating or adulterating.
You forgot to mention a few things about the family. Namely the fact that it is run like some kind of cult. The few kids that managed to escape from him (including some gay sons) have talked about physical and sexual abuse that he uses to keep everyone in line. He's a great guy, really. :rolleyes:
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 06:27
You forgot to mention a few things about the family. Namely the fact that it is run like some kind of cult. The few kids that managed to escape from him (including some gay sons) have talked about physical and sexual abuse that he uses to keep everyone in line. He's a great guy, really. :rolleyes:


Propaganda and lies. They've put 60 year old dads in jail before because a daughter with an axe to grind has memories 30-40 years old "Recovered memories" that they were sexually abused. Most states don't accept "recovered memories" and most often than not, they later admit it was a lie. There was just a big case about this a few months ago, if I find a link, I'll post it.

Anyway, his family is not a cult, just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it a cult.

The man is rather old, how could anybody not "escape" from him if they wanted? Really, they would just leave. But they don't want to.
Gauthier
24-02-2005, 06:28
I mentioned this idea once before in another Phelps related thread:

Instead of trying to lay a hand or a bullet on Preacher Fred, just let him die of cancer or natural causes.

But before he actually keels over, start a petition to the State of Kansas to have his body transferred to San Francisco for a burial there. Oh the irony.
Emperor Salamander VII
24-02-2005, 06:54
I mentioned this idea once before in another Phelps related thread:

Instead of trying to lay a hand or a bullet on Preacher Fred, just let him die of cancer or natural causes.

But before he actually keels over, start a petition to the State of Kansas to have his body transferred to San Francisco for a burial there. Oh the irony.

Get a taxidermist on the case and get his body preserved and then bury him so his scrawny butt in on display. The 'friscans would get such a kick out of it :D
Hammolopolis
24-02-2005, 07:09
Propaganda and lies. They've put 60 year old dads in jail before because a daughter with an axe to grind has memories 30-40 years old "Recovered memories" that they were sexually abused. Most states don't accept "recovered memories" and most often than not, they later admit it was a lie. There was just a big case about this a few months ago, if I find a link, I'll post it.

Anyway, his family is not a cult, just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it a cult.

The man is rather old, how could anybody not "escape" from him if they wanted? Really, they would just leave. But they don't want to.
I'm not sure why the hell you're talking about recovered memories, thats neither here nor there. It isn't a cult because I disagree with it, it is a cult because of how its run. Have you even seen one of their protests? When you've got little kids holding up signs that say "God hates America" and they are yelling about the evil fags that tends to point to a cult mentality. They have trouble escaping from the family, because the family is not one old man.

http://cjonline.com/webindepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps03.shtml

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=184
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=422
With a great deal of detail, they allege that their father engaged in physical and emotional abuse of his children, reflecting a need for control that bordered on brainwashing (see On the Inside). All three claim that at home he referred to black people as "dumb niggers."
Armed Bookworms
24-02-2005, 07:25
No, no Rev. Fred is the Right(ie smiting) Hand of God. He knows who's holy and who's hell bound. 9/11 was the Lords righteous wraith come a knocking on Sodom City's door. All those who oposed the will of God and slaves of Satan, and they shall burn forever in the lake o'fire.
Wouldn't he have hit Las Vegas then?
Armed Bookworms
24-02-2005, 07:27
I'm not sure why the hell you're talking about recovered memories, thats neither here nor there.
Recovered memories or "implanted" memories are memories that are created by the suggestion of the psychiatrist or by the subject's own delusions.
Hammolopolis
24-02-2005, 07:28
Recovered memories or "implanted" memories are memories that are created by the suggestion of the psychiatrist or by the subject's own delusions.
Yeah I know what the are, but I'm not even sure why he brought that up. That whole part had nothing to do with anything.
Nationalist Valhalla
24-02-2005, 07:34
Wouldn't he have hit Las Vegas then?

vagas is the special city of mammonite naughtiness, it has other prophesied roles to play in these last days.
Callisdrun
24-02-2005, 07:59
Get a taxidermist on the case and get his body preserved and then bury him so his scrawny butt in on display. The 'friscans would get such a kick out of it :D

It would be fun for a short time, but after a while, the city would get tired of paying for its maintanence/recovery (as it would be frequently vandalized and/or stolen). I think we'd probably dump it in the bay or even better, the Oakland Sewage Treatment Facility, after that. Maybe leave a nice little plaque.
Gauthier
24-02-2005, 08:08
vagas is the special city of mammonite naughtiness, it has other prophesied roles to play in these last days.

Yes, must not forget how Vegas will be tac-nuked by The Hand of God when all the wicked people are gathered there.
Hammolopolis
24-02-2005, 08:09
Yes, must not forget how Vegas will be tac-nuked by The Hand of God when all the wicked people are gathered there.
Wait, can I bet on that? What are the Vegas odds of an apocalypse?
Gauthier
24-02-2005, 08:12
It would be fun for a short time, but after a while, the city would get tired of paying for its maintanence/recovery (as it would be frequently vandalized and/or stolen). I think we'd probably dump it in the bay or even better, the Oakland Sewage Treatment Facility, after that. Maybe leave a nice little plaque.

"In local news, the Late Reverend Fred Phelps' ass has once more been tapped. Authorities have to figure out who broke into the display case and absconded with the behind, and given the Reverend's homophobic history it will be hard to find a suspect in Frisco, much less an eyewitness."
Ice Hockey Players
24-02-2005, 09:13
Wow. When Jerry Falwell calls you a loon, you really need to rethink your position on just about everything.
Cromotar
24-02-2005, 09:29
The twit could at least get his numbers right. "20,000 Swedes in the tsunami"? I believe the latest number was around 800.
Ravenclaws
24-02-2005, 10:15
It's my hope that, for the likes of Phelps, Hell consists of being sodomised constantly.
New Fuglies
24-02-2005, 10:18
Thankfully he's dying of cancer and hopefully his organization dies with him.



DIE A SLOW LINGERING DEATH FRED!

*does happy dance*

This has made my day. :D
Ravenclaws
24-02-2005, 10:27
As well as the brilliant www.GodHatesSweden.com

Here was me thinking that those two sites had to be a gee-up.
The Alma Mater
24-02-2005, 10:53
The man is rather old, how could anybody not "escape" from him if they wanted? Really, they would just leave. But they don't want to.

VoteEarly, do you understand that most people are *not* you ? That they are not as strong-willed ? It is *easy* to make most people believe no escape is possible.
Greedy Pig
24-02-2005, 11:41
Fred Phelps? Although I hate him as a person for bad-naming Christianity, but as a brother in Christ, I would bring him to my church, and see the power of forgiveness than condemnation.

My church is littered with used-to-be prostitutes, drug addicts and people from all walks of life, rich & poor, the needy and the givers. A Doctor doesn't treat the healthy but the sick. Jesus came to help those who are in need, not condemn them.
Bitchkitten
24-02-2005, 11:52
Fred Phelps? Although I hate him as a person for bad-naming Christianity, but as a brother in Christ, I would bring him to my church, and see the power of forgiveness than condemnation.

My church is littered with used-to-be prostitutes, drug addicts and people from all walks of life, rich & poor, the needy and the givers. A Doctor doesn't treat the healthy but the sick. Jesus came to help those who are in need, not condemn them.

That's what Christianity is supposed to be about. There wouldn't be so many atheists if it always lived up to that.
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 13:10
The twit could at least get his numbers right. "20,000 Swedes in the tsunami"? I believe the latest number was around 800.



However many Swedes were carried away by the wave, it's never enough to satisfy God. For He hates all sodomites and all perverted sinners, and His wrath against them will never cease. God's hatred and anger will burn against them for all eternity. At the very least until the waters, commanded by him, carry all the reprobate from all the nations, away!

I eagerly await the Second Coming of the Son of Man, for the message of Christ, for me, part of the Elect, is very good news. For the reprobate, it is horribly bad news. So I shall say, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!" for I know I shall be spending eternity in heaven, looking down on the reprobate in hell, mocking and laughing at their calamity.



Luke 12:24-29

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Cromotar
24-02-2005, 13:20
[Snipped for the good of the world.

O....kay. Yeah. That's right. God hates everyone. Especially children. Ever think that since your version of God seems to hate everything he would most likely hate you as well?

Just a thought.
Whinging Trancers
24-02-2005, 13:21
I took a look at his Westboro baptist site :eek:

What sort of christian is he preaching hate all the time?

Tried to have a look at his godhatessweden site and it just doesn't work for me, not even following the direct link from the front page of the other site, which is a bit disappointing as I wanted a laugh...

My 2p worth:

The guy's a moron and fit for no more than being laughed at. Nobody needs to do anything about him, seems like the cancer will take care of everything, divine justice maybe? :D
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 13:24
O....kay. Yeah. That's right. God hates everyone. Especially children. Ever think that since your version of God seems to hate everything he would most likely hate you as well?

Just a thought.


When God flooded the world in the days of Noah, He killed the entire population, except for the 8 He did predestinate to save, His Elect. The population of the world at the time of Noah was between 5-20 billion people, and God killed them all, with water, the flood. He killed them all, the day old infants, gone, dead, the weak, the old, the bed-ridden. Dead, gone; they split hell wide open.




2 Peter 3:3-8
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.




Understand you not the implications of this? This world is doomed, for in the eyes of God this world is rife with sin and all manner of evil. I am completely thankful that I am in God's Elect, and thus I am saved.
Preebles
24-02-2005, 13:28
This guy reminds me of Redeemer Baptist Church in Sydney.

They freak me out. They're buying up all these townhouses around where my family lives. Evey family in their "Community" (read- cult) has 5 kids, and some fat inbred parents.

The kids aren't allowed exposure to the outside world at all, no music, restricted tv, books and movies rated no higher than PG. Some who have escaped have mentioned sexual abuse at the hands of the leader, Noel Cannon.

Apparently they also asked an accountant to tweak their books. They own millions of dollars worth of property within the Hills district in Sydney.

Freaks.
Cromotar
24-02-2005, 13:31
When God flooded the world in the days of Noah, He killed the entire population, except for the 8 He did predestinate to save, His Elect. The population of the world at the time of Noah was between 5-20 billion people, and God killed them all, with water, the flood. He killed them all, the day old infants, gone, dead, the weak, the old, the bed-ridden. Dead, gone; they split hell wide open.

[Pointless quotes]

Understand you not the implications of this? This world is doomed, for in the eyes of God this world is rife with sin and all manner of evil. I am completely thankful that I am in God's Elect, and thus I am saved.

I probably shouldn't bother with this, but I guess I'm feeling a bit masochistic today...

Do you realize that if that little story were true, that only 8 people survived and all of humanity thereafter were thus sprung from them, that all humans would have nearly identical genomes?

Second, how do you know you are in God's Elect, if there is such a thing? Did he come down personally and tell you (while slaughtering a few babies for the heck of it since he was here anyway)?

I smell delusions of grandeur, and just a hint [note the sarcasm] of pride and arrogance. Isn't pride one of the deadly sins?
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 13:34
I probably shouldn't bother with this, but I guess I'm feeling a bit masochistic today...

Do you realize that if that little story were true, that only 8 people survived and all of humanity thereafter were thus sprung from them, that all humans would have nearly identical genomes?

Second, how do you know you are in God's Elect, if there is such a thing? Did he come down personally and tell you (while slaughtering a few babies for the heck of it since he was here anyway)?

I smell delusions of grandeur, and just a hint [note the sarcasm] of pride and arrogance. Isn't pride one of the deadly sins?


The Elect shall know who they are, and God knows who they are. If you are truly in God's Elect, then at one point or another, sooner or later in your life, you will be irresistibly drawn to God, you will accept the doctrine of grace (the Five Points of Calvinism), thus can you repent and then you are saved.

But if you are not in God's Elect, you will attack the doctrine of Grace, vigorously attack it, and you will attempt to deceive God's very Elect.
Macracanthus
24-02-2005, 13:34
[QUOTE=VoteEarly]However many Swedes were carried away by the wave, it's never enough to satisfy God. For He hates all sodomites and all perverted sinners, and His wrath against them will never cease. God's hatred and anger will burn against them for all eternity. At the very least until the waters, commanded by him, carry all the reprobate from all the nations, away!

I eagerly await the Second Coming of the Son of Man, for the message of Christ, for me, part of the Elect, is very good news. For the reprobate, it is horribly bad news. So I shall say, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!" for I know I shall be spending eternity in heaven, looking down on the reprobate in hell, mocking and laughing at their calamity.

/QUOTE]



Yes, since all Swedes are sodomites and perverted sinners...and all that died in the tsunami was that.

I have friends who lost their relatives and friends in the tsunami...you are an asshole to say what you say. And if I have read the bible correctly you also have a place in hell for what you say.
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 13:40
Yes, since all Swedes are sodomites and perverted sinners...and all that died in the tsunami was that.

I have friends who lost their relatives and friends in the tsunami...you are an asshole to say what you say. And if I have read the bible correctly you also have a place in hell for what you say.


You read it wrong if you are depressed by God's judgement against sinners. For your heart is hardened to the truth, your eyes are deaf to the word, your eyes are blind to the way. You have eyes but see not, you have ears but hear not, and I should like to add, you have a brain but think not.

From my viewpoint, if I'm wrong and the "God Loves us all" types are right, well then God loves me and I'm in heaven anyway. But I'm not wrong, I am right, God hates most men, and loves only a select (Elect) few, and since I'm part of the select (Elect) few, I'm good to go to heaven, and you and your fellow reprobate are good to go, to hell, yes HELL.


Matthew 12:30-32
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Cromotar
24-02-2005, 13:44
Wow, so God makes a world containing 6 billion humans, but decides that only a few of them get to survive because he's an ass. And since he made up his mind who that would be from the start, everyone else is screwed. Yeah, that makes sense.
Whinging Trancers
24-02-2005, 13:51
The population of the world at the time of Noah was between 5-20 billion people, and God killed them all,

5-20 billion, well that's pretty precise isn't it? Where do you get these figures?

How are you so sure that you are one of his elect? Strikes me as incredibly presumptious?
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 13:54
5-20 billion, well that's pretty precise isn't it? Where do you get these figures?

How are you so sure that you are one of his elect? Strikes me as incredibly presumptious?


Only the Elect can see and accept the message of God, the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


Thus if you are able to see the truth (Calvinism) and you accept it, you have found your Election, you are Elect. But if your name was not written in the book of life, by God, ages ago, then you will never see the truth, you will never accept the truth, indeed you can never see the truth, there is no hope for you.
Whinging Trancers
24-02-2005, 13:56
OK, so you're a Calvinist and therefore you think that you're better than all the other christians, who therefore aren't members of the elect. Calvinists have the only true interpretation of the bible?

Still no answer on your population figures?
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 14:22
OK, so you're a Calvinist and therefore you think that you're better than all the other christians, who therefore aren't members of the elect. Calvinists have the only true interpretation of the bible?

Still no answer on your population figures?


Yes, Calvinists are the only true Christians, you are correct there.

As for the population figures, how can there be any? God destroyed all 5-20 billion of them, save for Noah and 7 others. You must use your bible and ancient texts to get a rough idea of the population at that time.
Whinging Trancers
24-02-2005, 14:32
Yes, Calvinists are the only true Christians, you are correct there.

As for the population figures, how can there be any? God destroyed all 5-20 billion of them, save for Noah and 7 others. You must use your bible and ancient texts to get a rough idea of the population at that time.


Haha, so there were no true christians before 1550 (roughly the time of Calvins thrashing out of his ideas) say, if this is true then what sort of hearsay and false speculation was calvinism based upon? He based his ideas upon other interpretations of books which you reckon were false, therefore his own work must be flawed too.

You say there can't be any population figures, then say interpret the bible for a rough idea... tell me what part of the bible you're getting your ideas from then. Then tell me if you're not yourself making wildly inaccurate interpretations from it, 5-20 billion is a huge variation.
Bolol
24-02-2005, 14:51
Okay. Just what makes a person an "elect"? Is it based entirely on where you were born? How does one know they are an "elect"?

Can a person be an excelent, outstanding person, who does volunteer work and pays to charity, and still go to hell because he was not in the pre-destined "elect"?!

Explain to me how that is God VoteEarly! NOW!

If heaven is only gonna be full of people like Fred Phelps and dare I say you, then maybe Hell doesn't look so bad.
VoteEarly
24-02-2005, 15:12
Okay. Just what makes a person an "elect"? Is it based entirely on where you were born? How does one know they are an "elect"?

Can a person be an excelent, outstanding person, who does volunteer work and pays to charity, and still go to hell because he was not in the pre-destined "elect"?!

Explain to me how that is God VoteEarly! NOW!

If heaven is only gonna be full of people like Fred Phelps and dare I say you, then maybe Hell doesn't look so bad.




Romans 11:1-7
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


You're blind to the truth, and you're headed for hell, and you openly state you wish to go to hell, because you can't stand the thought of being in heaven with a God who hates. Well then, enjoy hell, it'll be split wide open for you and all reprobate.



http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/22-0008.htm
Jeruselem
24-02-2005, 15:23
Romans 11:1-7 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
Copyright © by SOON Educational Publications

Romans 11

1 So I ask, has God left his people? No, he has not! I myself am a Jew. I was born in Abraham's family. I belong to the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not left his people whom he knew from the first. Do you not know what the holy writings say about the prophet Elijah? He talked to God against the people of Israel.
3 He said, `Lord, they have killed your prophets. They have pulled down your holy places. I am the only one that is left, and they are trying to kill me.'
4 But what did God answer him? He said, `I have seven thousand men who have not kneeled down to the idol god Baal.'
5 So now some are left because God was kind to them, and chose them.
6 But if it was a gift because he was kind to them, then it was no longer because of the things they did. Or else a gift would no longer be a gift.
7 So what does that mean? The Jews did not get what they tried to get. Only the people God chose got it. The hearts of the rest of the people became hard.

VoteEarly, I assume you are using some recent Americanised version of the bible (American Standard Version). The New Testament version is rather different?
Bolol
24-02-2005, 15:23
Romans 11:1-7
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


You're blind to the truth, and you're headed for hell, and you openly state you wish to go to hell, because you can't stand the thought of being in heaven with a God who hates. Well then, enjoy hell, it'll be split wide open for you and all reprobate.

Oh yes, quoting from a book made eons ago by angry old men with bad parenting is a real credible source!

(Sarcasm/up the ass)