NationStates Jolt Archive

Seeing as we have a fairly large number of SF fans ansd a large number of military geeks...
What's your favorite military science fiction? What do you think is the best? And What's most realistic?

Space: above and beyond qualifies as being the most realistic I think, especially in a technological sense.

Iain Banks's Use of Weapons might qualify, although it depends on how broad a definition you want to give to "military".

The Forever War - Joe Haldeman.

Even though it spends most of the novel concerned with being at war, it is primarily concerned with coming back from war, I guess.

'The Legend That Was Earth' by James Hogan. Conservative humans and aliens attempt to seize power over billions, with a full-blown Terrestrial war the result.

Or Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5.

Anything by David Weber.

Battletech universe?

I really liked Space: Above and Beyond and was sad when they cancelled it.

Anythng by David Drake.

Or Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5.

Perfect choice.

The Forever War - Joe Haldeman.

Even though it spends most of the novel concerned with being at war, it is primarily concerned with coming back from war, I guess.


Good choice.

Personally I'm going with Starship Troopers, Falkenberg’s Legion, or Ender's Game.

Anything by David Weber.
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: as you can see I agree

Anythng by David Drake.
another :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: for you!

The First season of Farscape. I loved that show

The First season of Farscape. I loved that show

That hasn't shown up here yet. :(

Nobody has mentioned Starship Troopers yet.
I feel sad.

Seeing as we have a fairly large number of SF fans ansd a large number of military geeks...
What's your favorite military science fiction? What do you think is the best? And What's most realistic?

From now until the heat death of the Universe:

Baen books. Jim Baen can pick authors. David Weber, Dave Drake, Eric Flint, John Ringo and Mercedes Lackey are just a few of the authors hanging out in the Baen stable.

For classics, yeah, I'd have to go with Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie or cartoons) and The Forever War .

If you want a really fun read, try Eric Flint's 1632 . Don't want to spend money on an author you've never read? I've got a treat for you:

FREE EBOOKS

http://www.baen.com/library/

You'll find enough free reading there to whet your appetite for my favorite Sci-Fi publisher.

:mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

It may not qualify as military, since the focus is mostly on the training rather than in battles, but it is still my second favorite sci fi series regardless. Ender's Game.

If you want a really fun read, try Eric Flint's 1632 .


Yep, it was a fun read, but military SF?

I like Starship Troopers for how it handles propaganda and war.
I like Space: Above and Beyond for its psychological treatment.
I loooooove the Battletech Universe because it mixes paranoid politics, outsider invasion and gigantic freaking robots.

Nobody has mentioned Starship Troopers yet.
I feel sad.

Ahem. Personally I'm going with Starship Troopers, Falkenberg’s Legion, or [i]Ender's Game[i].

;)

I like Starship Troopers for how it handles propaganda and war.

The terrible movie or the excellent book? (I ask because it sounds like your a fan of the movie. Apologies if you are not.)

I like Space: Above and Beyond for its psychological treatment.
I loooooove the Battletech Universe because it mixes paranoid politics, outsider invasion and gigantic freaking robots.

Fun game, bad books, IMHO. :)

The terrible movie or the excellent book? (I ask because it sounds like your a fan of the movie. Apologies if you are not.)





I'm a fan of both, and no need to apologize. When I go to see a movie, I make a poitn of treating it solely as a movie experience, on its own from any previous incarnation unless it's supposed to be a sequel.

I went looking for cool effects, bugs, and a sweet musical score, and I got them.

Yep, it was a fun read, but military SF?

Yup, you have battles, politics and all the other bells and whistles. 1633 and 1634 take it a bit further, with the former having some nice fights and the latter having lots of political stuff and derring do. Pretty solid series.

It's not precisely military but it will do. :) Especially if it gets people to read more Flint. :)

I'm a fan of both, and no need to apologize. When I go to see a movie, I make a poitn of treating it solely as a movie experience, on its own from any previous incarnation unless it's supposed to be a sequel.

I went looking for cool effects, bugs, and a sweet musical score, and I got them.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I saw it hoping (against hope) for the political philosophy and the oh so cool armor. At least you showed me an insight into the fans of the movie. :D

Yup, you have battles, politics and all the other bells and whistles. 1633 and 1634 take it a bit further, with the former having some nice fights and the latter having lots of political stuff and derring do. Pretty solid series.

It's not precisely military but it will do. :) Especially if it gets people to read more Flint. :)

OK. Just differing ideas on what constitutes military SF.

OK. Just differing ideas on what constitutes military SF.

Actually, for true military Sci-Fi I like things like Falkenburg's Legion or Hammer's Slammers.

Incidentally, I understand Pournelle has at least one more book in the John Christian Falkenburg (aka Spartans or Empire of Man) universe coming some day. Mostly because when I wrote him and asked him to explain the relationship between Falkenburg and Geoff (whom I thought might be his bastard son) his reply was that it was "more complex" than that and would be revealed in a future story.

One can only hope he writes it. :)

And no-ones mentioned:
The Man Kzin Wars
The Matadora
Star Wars

How about the fantasy side anyone?
Glen Cook's Black Company totally rocks anything else on the fantasy side I've ever read. (He does for fantasy warfare what Joe Haldeman and David Drake do for SF - especially in the later books where he brings in his military experiences - including time spent with the 3rd Marine Force Recon Battalion, no less.)

Anything by Jerry Pournelle, especially the books he wrote with Larry Niven:

A Mote in God's Eye
The Gripping Hand

Robert Frezza's
"A Small Colonial War" and
"Fire In A Faraway Place"

Robert Frezza's
"A Small Colonial War" and
"Fire In A Faraway Place"

those were damned good...

I like Pournelle, Niven, Drake, and Weber... but don't forget Gorden Dickson's "Dorsai" series,

also good for laughs is "Phules Company" and the various sequels (Robert Aspirin), lots of fun

Harry Harrison "Bill the Galactic Hero" (several books) and "the Stainless Steel Rat" series (great books all)

"Retief of the CDT" is a good series

Keith Laumer "Bolo" and the various sequels (which is where the idea of self aware tanks comes from)

"Beserker" and the various sequels by Saberhagan (intelligent robots who have the mission to destroy all life... the survivors of an ancient war somebody fought and lost... I always wondered if this series was the inspiration for BattleStar Galactica and one notable Star Trek episode from the original series)

on television.. "Space Above and Beyond" was ok, but why the Marine Corps would ever send very expensively trained pilots into ground ops always got on my nerves. "Battlestar Galactica" the new version is really damned good, on a lot of levels... love it.

for laughs there are the movie versions of "Starship Troopers", loosely (REALLY loosely) based on the Heinlein story

Star Trek has had several good episodes (on Star Trek, Next Generation, Deep Space 9 and Voyager) with heavily military elements (Cardissian War, Borg attacks, the episode "balance of terror" from the first Star Trek which is practically identical to the movie and novel "Enemy Below")

For movies, what about Aliens?

And has any one read any of Rick Shelly's or William C. Dietz's stuff?

Or how about William H Keith's Warstrider series?

From now until the heat death of the Universe:

Baen books. Jim Baen can pick authors. David Weber, Dave Drake, Eric Flint, John Ringo and Mercedes Lackey are just a few of the authors hanging out in the Baen stable.

You'll find enough free reading there to whet your appetite for my favorite Sci-Fi publisher.

:mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

Peh. Just because you beat me to it doesn't mean you don't get a :fluffle:

You're probably a Barfly too.

I've been a Webscription subscriber for almost as long as it has existed. I have the entire Free Library (and the Honor Harrington CD, etc etc) in .LIT format on my Dell Axim.

All the rest of 'yall....

GO GET YOUR FREE BOOKS! THAT'S AN ORDER! (http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm)

Seeing as we have a fairly large number of SF fans ansd a large number of military geeks...
What's your favorite military science fiction? What do you think is the best? And What's most realistic?
My favorite is "StarshipTroopers," the book, not the movie. The most realistic? Hmmm. Can't think of one. :(

Any other Mobile Suit Gundam fans here?

Space: above and beyond qualifies as being the most realistic I think, especially in a technological sense.


I back Space: Above and Beyond to the core. I really really miss that show.
Starship Troopers has a close second for me, the book that is. Man that was amazing.
And since I can, Gundam Wing will hold third place, specificly the series and not Endless Waltz. That series is very good with the relationships between the characters and the intracate and subtle happenings.

*Goes into a corner and cries for the loss of Space: Above and Beyond*

EDIT; and the Halo and Doom books are up there as well, tied in a 3-way for third place. The games are amazing too.

No one's mentioned Babylon 5?!?
Especially the "In the Beginning" special?

Drake, Ringo, and Laumer (Big Tanks=good)

Weber is ok (ducks)

SM frikking Stirling. The Draka books specifically. Sure, they get weird and nasty, but how can you not love books about insane south africans taking over the world? You like WWII? It's got WWII. You like murder and espianoge? Got that. And also nuclear war. Spaceships. (Like DA except more successful, and in future?)

And since I can, Gundam Wing will hold third place, specificly the series and not Endless Waltz. That series is very good with the relationships between the characters and the intracate and subtle happenings.
Yeah, all of Gundam has excellent character relationships - it's way too hard to decide which Gundam series is best for me, they're all so good! :D

Well different medium, different results.

If you're talking Anime; the list is too long. There are some really good ones out there; Gundum being one of them...but I really only think Gundum MS 08th team was a good "Military" Sci Fi show. The rest were something else entirely. So many Sci Fi shows have "military" aspects, but they aren't really part of the genre.

The Battletech universe is awash with fits and starts, a difficult to understand balance of brilliance and steaming loads of "me too" crap.

The early battletech was 1980's "Post apocalyptic/tech savlaging" military sci fi: Not bad but a touch predictable and low-production value. It was okay; but not one of the greatest you've ever seen.

Mid-battletech stories (where it started to get good) was 1990's style "technolgical renessaince" that was MOSTLY very well written, good authors and contributers with sound military concepts behind the creativity. It was a joy to read what they did with the series back then.

Late-battletech stuff is mostly finding diamonds within the rough. Somewhere along the way they decided it would be "cool" to turn their well-crafted political drama into a comic book. Heroes became unfailable demi-gods, and their military adventures became more and more mythical and silly.

Every now and then you'd get a glimpse of greatness, and that kept me reading for a year or two further. Still, in its heyday; Battletech was amazing.

Phule's comany was decent, as were a number of other books mentioned. Good stuff.

Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers.

Drake, Ringo, and Laumer (Big Tanks=good)

Weber is ok (ducks)

SM frikking Stirling. The Draka books specifically. Sure, they get weird and nasty, but how can you not love books about insane south africans taking over the world? You like WWII? It's got WWII. You like murder and espianoge? Got that. And also nuclear war. Spaceships. (Like DA except more successful, and in future?)

Good lord, someone eles read them!!
I stopped at the 3rd book. Marching Through Georgia was pretty good. Under the Yoke *sucked* for the first half. Stone Dogs got strange. I don't know if there are more. The sex and the violence was understandable, but I still don't think that they could ever hold so much territory with so many Jannisaries and so few actual citizens...

Ah, poor Karl. (I'm amazed I can remember all this, I haven't read them since about 1993...)

I think the idea was that by then they had beaten the Janissarries into submission... Rome used a lot of slave troops, but then again Rome allowed more positions for slaves.

Yeah, there's one after Stone Dogs, Drakon I think. Yet to get my hands on it. Drakons supposed to be about them getting a scout force into our timeline, I think.

Yahooo! Two more who read S.M. Stirling!!! I think the Drakka are kick ass! But then again in that universe I would have been one, given, family history and heritage.

What about Elizabeth Moon - ex Marine Lt and an excellent writer

as others have mentioned - Drake, Weber, Ringo, Laumer, and there are so many more...

I think the idea was that by then they had beaten the Janissarries into submission... Rome used a lot of slave troops, but then again Rome allowed more positions for slaves.

Yeah, there's one after Stone Dogs, Drakon I think. Yet to get my hands on it. Drakons supposed to be about them getting a scout force into our timeline, I think.

Ah, but in Rome a slave could win freedom.
I'm not sure that was true in the Drakan world. (?)

those were damned good...

I like Pournelle, Niven, Drake, and Weber... but don't forget Gorden Dickson's "Dorsai" series,

also good for laughs is "Phules Company" and the various sequels (Robert Aspirin), lots of fun

Harry Harrison "Bill the Galactic Hero" (several books) and "the Stainless Steel Rat" series (great books all)

"Retief of the CDT" is a good series

Keith Laumer "Bolo" and the various sequels (which is where the idea of self aware tanks comes from)

"Beserker" and the various sequels by Saberhagan (intelligent robots who have the mission to destroy all life... the survivors of an ancient war somebody fought and lost... I always wondered if this series was the inspiration for BattleStar Galactica and one notable Star Trek episode from the original series)

on television.. "Space Above and Beyond" was ok, but why the Marine Corps would ever send very expensively trained pilots into ground ops always got on my nerves. "Battlestar Galactica" the new version is really damned good, on a lot of levels... love it.

for laughs there are the movie versions of "Starship Troopers", loosely (REALLY loosely) based on the Heinlein story

Star Trek has had several good episodes (on Star Trek, Next Generation, Deep Space 9 and Voyager) with heavily military elements (Cardissian War, Borg attacks, the episode "balance of terror" from the first Star Trek which is practically identical to the movie and novel "Enemy Below")


Couldn't have said it better myself. I also couldn't believe it took someone this long to mention the Dorsai series. The Berseker stories also kick-ass. And "Balance of Terror" is one of the best of the ST Original Series episodes even with it being pretty much a remake of "Enemy Bellow" (One of my fav WWII movies).

Kudos NS

Star wars, i like that. Also i like alien 1 and 2

I like some S.M. Stirling and almost all of Elizabeth Moon's stuff, but those have both already been mentioned. I also like Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series and Karen Wehrstein's Lion's Heart and Lion's Soul dualology.

What about Elizabeth Moon - ex Marine Lt and an excellent writer



Oooohhh - what was that fantasy series she did - Pakksannarion or something like that. First book was good, if a bit derived (too much papa T.) but she did manage a bit of gritty realism.

* The Raj Whitehall series (The Forge/Hammer/Anvil/Steel/Sword, also as two combined books, The Warlord and The Conqueror) by S.M. Stirling and David Drake http://www.baen.com/series_list.asp#RW
combat is roughly at late British Empire (1875) tech levels, but there is a very significant sci-fi element (which I won't spoil for you). tremendously detailed and realistic.

* The Prince (aka Falkenberg's Legion) by Jerry Pournelle and S.M. Stirling
combat is at slightly better-than-modern levels
this deals with insurgency and counterinsurgency in a really detailed way, you can tell that both authors have "been there" and seen the pachyderm.

* Honor Harrington series by David Weber http://www.baen.com/series_list.asp#HH
pure space opera, but amongst the best of the genre. consistent space combat and tech at far-future levels, plenty of character development. based on the classic Horatio Hornblower series by C.S. Forrester.

* Hammer's Slammers series by David Drake, esp. "Rolling Hot"
the author was a tanker in vietnam, you get a real appreciation for why tankers call everyone else "crunchies"

* Miles Vorkosigan series by Louis McMaster Bujold http://www.baen.com/series_list.asp#VS
a very curious beast, military-sf space opera in which there is (almost) no combat and (almost) no actions in space. the closest I can describe it, this consists primarily of what the other space-opera books omit, done with tremendous poise and style.

you can buy all of these as e-books here http://www.webscription.net/baen/order_singles.asp and some are available free here (mostly the early Honor Harrington)
http://www.baen.com/library/

P.S. Baen rocks.

p.s. I should say that there are tons of military-sf that is tremendously entertaining, but I wouldn't call it *good* - mostly because it is not realistic, not very detailed, and/or you never find out what the characters are thinking - hence the selection.

I'll have to check out a few of those I haven't read. Thanks.

And just to note, Heinlein was ex-navy, which accounts for part of his goodness. And Glen Cook (whom I noted above for his fantasy series) is also ex-navy and served with USMC Force Recon - IIRC in Vietnam. It adds a lot. :)

And just to note, Heinlein was ex-navy, which accounts for part of his goodness. And Glen Cook (whom I noted above for his fantasy series) is also ex-navy and served with USMC Force Recon - IIRC in Vietnam. It adds a lot. :)

I'll have to check out Cook, never read him.

There is a hilarious short story dealing with Heinlein... time travellers from the future want to prevent the Space Age from happening, and they determine that the key event was Heinlein catching pneumonia which led to a medical discharge from the Navy and to his career as a writer. One of them travels back and cures him. When he returns to his time, things are a lot further along than they used to be, and, well let's just say the five-mile-long flagship of the US Space Navy is the "Admiral Heinlein".

Was it Heinlein who wrote "The Door into Summer"?
I loved it, it reminded me of my cat.

I'll have to check out Cook, never read him.

There is a hilarious short story dealing with Heinlein... time travellers from the future want to prevent the Space Age from happening, and they determine that the key event was Heinlein catching pneumonia which led to a medical discharge from the Navy and to his career as a writer. One of them travels back and cures him. When he returns to his time, things are a lot further along than they used to be, and, well let's just say the five-mile-long flagship of the US Space Navy is the "Admiral Heinlein".

That sounds hilarious!

The main Cook series I'm talking about is the Black Company (he's got several). It revolves around a mercenary company that has a similance to la Légion Étrangère. The story is related by the annalist. The whole series is very amoral, and full of nasty trickery, backstabbing, and really gritty warfare.

The first set of books, the Books of the North, involves a sort of three way war between a dark lordesque character, his evil (?) wife, and the rebels. The lines between good and evil are nicely vague and realistic. Also, at one point, he seems to draw on Chu Chi.

The Second set, the Books of the South, involve an "Anabasis" type quest that turns into a religious war. It's notable for it's strong Asian flavor. There are shades of the British Raj and, again, Vietnam (a wholle people are based very obviously on the Vietnamese.)

Schlock Mercenary (www.schlockmercenary.com)

It's funny, also.

I'll have to check out Cook, never read him.

There is a hilarious short story dealing with Heinlein... time travellers from the future want to prevent the Space Age from happening, and they determine that the key event was Heinlein catching pneumonia which led to a medical discharge from the Navy and to his career as a writer. One of them travels back and cures him. When he returns to his time, things are a lot further along than they used to be, and, well let's just say the five-mile-long flagship of the US Space Navy is the "Admiral Heinlein".

"The Revenge of William Proxmire" I think is the name of that story.. one of my all time favorites.

the hope series by david fientuch