NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18597

That was so patheticly true of the current conservatives. I've known a few who don't bullshit like this, but the overwhelming majority.... yeah. Rock on!

And your opinion of this is?

Is it a fair representation of conservatism?
Is it an unjustified slander by the liberals, pitting their own tactics in the moths of the conservatives?
Is it just a cartoon not to be taken seriously?
Is it a waste of internet bandwidth?

Please don't just post a link with no comment. Even the thread title is just a straight copy.

Me, I think all politicians use all of these tactics whenever appropriate. It is not restricted to any particular political viewpoint. (Have you ever tried arguing rationally with a rabid socialist?)

You know, that sounds about right. It's the Conservative approach in the UK anyway - find one subject people are worried about (immigration) and cling on like hell - oh, and don't forget to make the problem sound worse than it is!

Is it a fair representation of conservatism?

No, not at all. It's got 0% to do with conservatism, and everything to do with the way a few Republicans in the US tend to argue.

Is it an unjustified slander by the liberals, pitting their own tactics in the moths of the conservatives?

Not really, made by a liberal is not made by "the liberals." Even if we assume liberal policies of the maker.

Is it just a cartoon not to be taken seriously?

Life is not to be taken seriously...

Is it a waste of internet bandwidth?

No way, the band is so wide people looking at it could go, "damn, that's a fat band, it's nearly infinite in it's fatness."

Amended initial post rescinded. Minimalism resumed.

Thank you, drive through.

Bump!

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18597

Yes, I posted the thread without offering comment. Yes, the title of the thread is taken directly from the comic strip.

I honestly can't think of anything more to add to the sentiment expressed in the comic strip. Having seen these same debating 'skills' used on these forums by the afore-mentioned conservatives, I thought it apt.

Waste of bandwidth? I hardly think so. I'd surmise only a conservative would so opine in this matter. Maybe you should go complain to the mods and have it thrown into 'Spam'.

Wouldn't be the first time... :rolleyes:


lol, it almost sounds like Tom Tomorrow is a NS General poster

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18597

Yes, I posted the thread without offering comment. Yes, the title of the thread is taken directly from the comic strip.

I honestly can't think of anything more to add to the sentiment expressed in the comic strip. Having seen these same debating 'skills' used on these forums by the afore-mentioned conservatives, I thought it apt.

Waste of bandwidth? I hardly think so. I'd surmise only a conservative would so opine in this matter. Maybe you should go complain to the mods and have it thrown into 'Spam'.

Wouldn't be the first time... :rolleyes:

Well actually it would. I have once, and once only referred something to the moderators, and that was trolling, not spam. So, get your facts straight OK.

I am not a conservative. I am a philosophy student. This means that I have some idea of what arguments are, and how to go about them.

If you could not think of anything to say, then it was not worth a thread, was it? "Oh I know, I dont have anything to say about this matter, I'll start a thread on it." does not exactly show you in the most intelligent of lights.

My opinion was clearly stated at the bottom of my post, but you could not even be bothered to comment on that, sinking to the level of a unjustified ad hominem argument.

Oh, and I have my political compass results in my sig. Yes I am fractionally right of centre, but I am not conservative. Learn to read and to think about what you read, rather than just live by gut reactions. It may make you a better person in the long run.

On conservatives in the deepest and truest sense Nietzsche I think sums it up well.

Whoever has overthrown an existing law of custom has always first been accounted a bad man: but when, as did happen, the law could not afterwards be reinstated and this fact was accepted, the predicate gradually changed; - history treats almost exclusively of these bad men who subsequently became good men!

from Nietzsche's Daybreak,s. 20, R.J. Hollingdale transl.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is new, however, is always evil, being that which wants to conquer and overthrow the old boundary markers and the old pieties; and only what is old is good. The good men are in all ages those who dig the old thoughts, digging deep and getting them to bear fruit - the farmers of the spirit. But eventually all land is depleted, and the ploughshare of evil must come again and again.

from Nietzsche's The Gay Science, s. 4, Walter Kaufmann transl

The conservative mind is a mind that is trapped within it's own restrictions they are not ubermensch.

That comic can easily be twisted to fit a Liberal as well...

Don't act like Conservatives are Idiotic, Nazilike people... Just shows that writer was just as stupid as the person whom he portrayed as a typical "Conservative"

Well actually it would. I have once, and once only referred something to the moderators, and that was trolling, not spam. So, get your facts straight OK.

I am not a conservative. I am a philosophy student. This means that I have some idea of what arguments are, and how to go about them.

If you could not think of anything to say, then it was not worth a thread, was it? "Oh I know, I dont have anything to say about this matter, I'll start a thread on it." does not exactly show you in the most intelligent of lights.

My opinion was clearly stated at the bottom of my post, but you could not even be bothered to comment on that, sinking to the level of a unjustified ad hominem argument.

Oh, and I have my political compass results in my sig. Yes I am fractionally right of centre, but I am not conservative. Learn to read and to think about what you read, rather than just live by gut reactions. It may make you a better person in the long run.

I didn't say that I could not think of anything to say, I said that I couldn't think of anything to add to the sentiment expressed in the comic strip. The comic strip, in my opinion, says it all.

Perhaps you'd be a better person in the long run (and no doubt a better philosopher, too) if you'd take the time to 'learn to read and to think about what you read rather than than just liv(ing) by gut reactions' yourself.

Troubling, yes...dealing with the unwashed masses. They are just so terribly...unrefined, yes? If you are a philosopher, then you're showing yourself to be somewhat of an elitist, from my point of view.

Have you ever tried arguing rationally with a rabid socialist?

I'm a rabid communist! :D

I'm a rabid communist! :D

That is as maybe, but at least you justify your points. How goes the taxonomy?

Bobs Own Pipe, do you honestly believe that all conservatives argue like that?

Bobs Own Pipe, do you honestly believe that all conservatives argue like that?

No, you're right - a great many conservatives are far more willfully naive than the conservative mouthpiece depicted in the strip. Gullible, even.

I'm a rabid communist! :D

I'm just rabid! :D

The grandstanding and changing subjects was too true if the rest of it was bullshit even

And your opinion of this is?

Is it a fair representation of conservatism?

Sometimes, I concede that is exactly what I hear from them. Not allcomservatives, but most of them. And no there are few true conservatives left so it doesn't matter.

Is it an unjustified slander by the liberals, pitting their own tactics in the moths of the conservatives?

No, I think it is unjustified slander by Libertarians pitting their own tactics in the "mo" of the Conservatives.

Is it just a cartoon not to be taken seriously?

Well, it does explain things...

Me, I think all politicians use all of these tactics whenever appropriate. It is not restricted to any particular political viewpoint. (Have you ever tried arguing rationally with a rabid socialist?)

No, and I have found few Consevatives that argue rationally without terms like "Left", "Liberal", "Fascist"(directed toward the Liberals and not Fascist), and other terms like that.

This Modern World is one of my favorite strips. It's featured in the weekly that oddly enough led me to this site.

Your post was fine Bob before the edit, you shouldn't have let these whiners influence your style.

Sometimes a minamalist approach, offering something up for comment without editorializing, is the best way to gather raw feedback.

Unfortunately the feedback you got this time was just a bunch of whining.

i think the mods give you guff if you start threasds and post links or articles without comment

I'm following your advice and returning the thread to it's original state. There.

I've heard people say that's so, others who disagree, Sumamba.

Liberals do the same thing.

Instead just call the conservative:

A redneck
A flag-draped patriotic religious zealot
A capitalist pig who likes to hit poor people with beanbags
A homophobe
A racist
A war-mongerer
Intolerant
Close-minded
Blind and/or deaf to the "truth"
Neo-con (usually when you try refute such statements as "America supports fascism" or "Americans love to bathe in the blood of Iraqi children" as exaggerated)

All of these conjectures can be easily made without any facts to support them. All that is needed is questioning to a liberal stance.

Another similarity using different words: simply accuse the conservative of beign anti-American. Claim yourself to be a true American for reason x or reason y (usually dealing with gays or religion).

Other than that, they're pretty much similar.

And does this mean all liberals do this or most do? No. People can fluctuate. They may decide to use this tactic rarely, always, or sometimes. It all depends.

Of course, now I'll be accused of being a neo-con.. which Im not. But give it your best shot.

Conservatives as close-minded, intolerant, racist war-mongering, homophobic redneck religious zealots (I might have missed one or two there)? I've heard each and every one of those sentiments expressed by conservatives in these forums. I've witnessed conservatives 'debating' using some of the very methods as illustrated so well by Tom Tomorrow. I think you nailed it pretty well with your description of the stereotypical conservative.

But maybe you've got ask yourself why do people commonly perceive conservatives this way? It doesn't come out of a vacuum. There's a reason why stereotypes exist. They may not be good stereotypes, but the stereotypes themselves are revealing and instructive, provided ytou're looking with the right kind of eyes.

No doubt there is such a thing as a socially-progressive/fiscally conservative 'conservative'...but those moderate people ought to realize, they've thrown in politically with people who do refelect this narrowminded, parochial stereotype - the brownshirt wannabes. You know what I'm talking about.

I found one of my favorite one: http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2003/01/13/tomo/index.html

Damn, this thread went up in flames awful fast.

Maybe becuase it started off as partisan hackery, and ended up right where it started. :rolleyes:

That comic can easily be twisted to fit a Liberal as well...

Don't act like Conservatives are Idiotic, Nazilike people... Just shows that writer was just as stupid as the person whom he portrayed as a typical "Conservative"

I agree. However, I think this kind of takes a few shots at the Fox News network. The nature of programming on that network - which you must be able to admit is skewed towards the conservative point of view - tends to encourage misinformation and a lack of true discussion. Hannity & Colmes, Brit Hume, O'Reilly.. they're just talking heads who start up big arguments to get big ratings. Problem is that the truth gets obscured, hidden in the arguments. And since the conservative bias - however small - is already there, what comes out tends to be truth colored conservative.

This "comic" is simply pointing out the tactics some of the conservative talking heads use to argue. I'd say this kind of thing is more endemic, though; it's not a quality of conservatives, just of poor thinkers. Unfortunately, poor thinkers seem to get ratings.

Bumped...