NationStates Jolt Archive

NOt really welfare here in canada, but EI.

Basically, the government is considering lower the requirements to get EI.

Right now its at about 750 hours of work. They want to lower it to 700. This would be about 6 months of work. COMPLETE BS!!!

This is bullshit, something like EI should be for people who actually have worked for some time, not seasonal workers who want to get on the lam after doing 5 ~ 6 months of work. You should have to work about 2 years to qualify.

I dont think this shoudl apply to people who support kids though....

So instead of dishing out this extra money to fucking bums who dont want to get another job in the "off season" why not lower taxes or spend the money on something usefull like education or health care?

Fucking idoit liberals trying to buy votes in the welfare provinces of quebec + all the east coast. :rolleyes:

NOt really welfare here in canada, but EI.

Basically, the government is considering lower the requirements to get EI.

Right now its at about 750 hours of work. They want to lower it to 700. This would be about 6 months of work. COMPLETE BS!!!

This is bullshit, something like EI should be for people who actually have worked for some time, not seasonal workers who want to get on the lam after doing 5 ~ 6 months of work. You should have to work about 2 years to qualify.

I dont think this shoudl apply to people who support kids though....

So instead of dishing out this extra money to fucking bums who dont want to get another job in the "off season" why not lower taxes or spend the money on something usefull like education or health care?

Fucking idoit liberals trying to buy votes in the welfare provinces of quebec + all the east coast. :rolleyes:
More like four months. Figure on 2000 hours for a year of work. Is this like unemployment insurance?

More like four months. Figure on 2000 hours for a year of work. Is this like unemployment insurance?

ya same thing, you get 45% of your wage i believe, they are also considering raising the 45% to 50 or something like that.

total bs

More like four months. Figure on 2000 hours for a year of work. Is this like unemployment insurance?
1500's a bit more reasonable.

anyone actually been on EI or employment insurance?

There are a few questions I have.
1. Are jobs readily available in Canada?
2. Is the governenment workign at a deficite liek the United States?

1500's a bit more reasonable.
I don't know. 40 hours/week * 50 weeks/year = 2000 hours/year in my math.

Seems like we're pretty generous with unemployment, too. I can't remember the details any more. When I was in college, I think you only had to work 20 - 26 weeks to qualify, so my summer contruction work was never enough.

Fifty percent after 18 weeks work. Pretty good deal. Eventually, all of us welfare states are going to suffer some serious economic problems. I think it was New Zealand that finally woke up to the fact that it was going bankrupt and made a dramatic shift in it's government spending policies.

There are a few questions I have.
1. Are jobs readily available in Canada?
2. Is the governenment workign at a deficite liek the United States?

1.The number one job is a truck driver. Basically they're bring America there sh*t.

2.I don't know what there deficit is...their debt is 802 billion, which is 25,000 debt per person. America is a little bit higher per person.

ya same thing, you get 45% of your wage i believe, they are also considering raising the 45% to 50 or something like that.

total bs
Way to represent the average, redneck Albertan!:)

Wow! 45% of your wage! That's like...$2.92 cents for someone on minimum wage! Assuming you were full time (in order to qualify, you generally have to be) that works out to $117 a week, or roughly $468 a month! YEHAW, Hey, the good life, I'm on my way!

Edit: the rate is actually 55% (now that I've checked).

Let's not forget, that even if you make more than minimum wage, the maximum you can get is $1440 dollars a month...and the bare minimum you'd have to make originally to qualify for that max out is $13.05 an hour.

Also, in order to REMAIN eligible, you have to submit a weekly description of everything you have done in order to find employment. No, that doesn't mean employment in your field. So what if you are a teacher...you have to work anywhere, so apply to Wendy's and get a job! Also, you can only remain on EI for a specific period of time...when your benefits run out. You can not just be an EI bum, which is a common misconception.

Not only that, but don't forget YOU ARE TAXED ON ALL YOUR EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS. That's right. They give you money, then take it away:)

Here...do some reading. http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=en/ei/types/regular.shtml&hs=tyt

Some salient points:

Only the last 52 weeks from loss of employment can be counted to determine your eligibility. You can't be fired, or quit...you have to lose your job through no fault of your own (let go because they can't afford to keep you). The number of hours you need to qualify depending on the rate of unemployment in your area. It is as low as 420 hours in some places, the maximum being 700. You have a 2 week unpaid waiting period before you receive benefits (and let me tell you from experience they ALWAYS screw it up and pay you late:))

The amount of time you can collect benefits depends again on the unemployment rate in your area, as well as the hours you have worked. The minimum is 14 weeks, THE MAXIMUM IS 45 WEEKS. By the way, the actual rate you get is 55%, not 45% (I wasn't sure either), to a maxium of $413 a week.

It's not the free ride you're making it out to be.

I see, Jaystan, that you are offline. I hope you read this...I'm interested in your perspective on EI with this information.

There are a few questions I have.
1. Are jobs readily available in Canada?
2. Is the governenment workign at a deficite liek the United States?

1. Yes but it depends in which sector. Most of the jobs you see in the papers are low pay, though.

2. The government is working with a balanced budget and has been for some time. (5 years, IIRC)

Edit: the rate is actually 55% (now that I've checked).


More than half a slave...

More than half a slave...
I'd grin at you...but I'm not entirely certain what you are suggesting...

I hate it when people start threads, make inflammatory statements, and then leave before you can show them your rational argument:( *wanders off to cry alone in a corner*

I'd grin at you...but I'm not entirely certain what you are suggesting...

I'm hoping your not like your country...100% income tax.

I'm refering to that 55% owned government piece. 45% freedom. Essentially I'm saying one would have to be a 1/2 slave to work there, while in the states....it's a 1/3 to almost a 1/2, sadly.

I'm hoping your not like your country...100% income tax. No honey, I don't charge any income tax:) Seriously though, I can't control the income tax level all that much in the Dominion of Sinuhue.

I'm refering to that 55% owned government piece. 45% freedom. Essentially I'm saying one would have to be a 1/2 slave to work there, while in the states....it's a 1/3 to almost a 1/2, sadly.
Oh...I think you are saying that the income tax is 55%? No, that's not what I meant...although it is pretty high...no, the percentage you can receive in employment benefits works out to be 55% of your gross income.

[QUOTE]No honey, I don't charge any income tax:) Seriously though, I can't control the income tax level all that much in the Dominion of Sinuhue.

Honey...lol ; )


Oh...I think you are saying that the income tax is 55%? No, that's not what I meant...although it is pretty high...no, the percentage you can receive in employment benefits works out to be 55% of your gross income.

Thanks for the clarification.

Honey...lol ; )
Should I call you peanut-butter instead?

Thanks for the clarification.
No prob:)

Should I call you peanut-butter instead?



w/ jelly. ; )

NOt really welfare here in canada, but EI.

Basically, the government is considering lower the requirements to get EI.

Right now its at about 750 hours of work. They want to lower it to 700. This would be about 6 months of work. COMPLETE BS!!!

This is bullshit, something like EI should be for people who actually have worked for some time, not seasonal workers who want to get on the lam after doing 5 ~ 6 months of work. You should have to work about 2 years to qualify.

I dont think this shoudl apply to people who support kids though....

So instead of dishing out this extra money to fucking bums who dont want to get another job in the "off season" why not lower taxes or spend the money on something usefull like education or health care?

Fucking idoit liberals trying to buy votes in the welfare provinces of quebec + all the east coast. :rolleyes:

The problem is that more and more companies are using seasonal work as a way to keep from compensating their employees fully. I don't know about Canada but in America there are tax penalties for only hiring people for a small part of the year and then sending them home.

This is supposed to encourage them to find different jobs for people throughout the year if they are genuinly seasonal jobs and make them full timers if it's not.

Farmhands at a vinyard for example. In the spring they'd plant the seeds, in the summer they'd tend the grapes, in the autumn they'd harvest them and in the winter they'd make the wine. Without the incentive above they need only bring in some migrant farm workers to take care of the grapes for $2.00 an hour and then one or two experts to take care of the wine over the winter (they do that anyway because the penalties above don't take into account "non-employee compensation").

Employers are also called upon to contribute to unemployment insurance to further discourage frivolous seasonal hirings. That works a bit better so most employers except for the government tend to only hire seasonal workers when there's a pressing reason for doing so.

Hey Jaystan...I see you're here finally...

Seriously, no one has an opinion about welfare? Or employment insurance? I find that hard to believe...

Way to represent the average, redneck Albertan!:)

Wow! 45% of your wage! That's like...$2.92 cents for someone on minimum wage! Assuming you were full time (in order to qualify, you generally have to be) that works out to $117 a week, or roughly $468 a month! YEHAW, Hey, the good life, I'm on my way!

Edit: the rate is actually 55% (now that I've checked).


No the rate will be increased to 55% after the change, trust me i know i was on EI.

You also get a minimum benfit rate.

I was just saying one hsould have to work about 2 years or so in order to qualifiy.

No the rate will be increased to 55% after the change, trust me i know i was on EI.

You also get a minimum benfit rate.

I was just saying one hsould have to work about 2 years or so in order to qualifiy.
The change has been made already. It's 55%.

In any case, that is not all you were saying...you were implying that people somehow get a free ride on EI. You called them bums, and seasonal workers, and said that it was all a political ploy.

No, there is no minimum benefit rate. There is a maximum. You can't make below a certain amount because of minimum wage laws. We all pay into EI...and yet I as a teacher can not claim EI even though I am not paid for 6 weeks out of the year. I don't complain, because EI is a temporary measure to help people who are temporarily unemployed.

Now, explain why you think someone should only be eligible to collect EI after 2 years of full time work?

The problem is that more and more companies are using seasonal work as a way to keep from compensating their employees fully. I don't know about Canada but in America there are tax penalties for only hiring people for a small part of the year and then sending them home.

This is supposed to encourage them to find different jobs for people throughout the year if they are genuinly seasonal jobs and make them full timers if it's not.

Farmhands at a vinyard for example. In the spring they'd plant the seeds, in the summer they'd tend the grapes, in the autumn they'd harvest them and in the winter they'd make the wine. Without the incentive above they need only bring in some migrant farm workers to take care of the grapes for $2.00 an hour and then one or two experts to take care of the wine over the winter (they do that anyway because the penalties above don't take into account "non-employee compensation").

Employers are also called upon to contribute to unemployment insurance to further discourage frivolous seasonal hirings. That works a bit better so most employers except for the government tend to only hire seasonal workers when there's a pressing reason for doing so.

Really really oddly enough I know someone who owns a vineyard in BC. They actually pay $10 a hour and its all kids who do it, sometime they pay more as they have a hard time getting labour for 2 weeks of work.

Of course it would be different when you have mexico right below you. :D

The change has been made already. It's 55%.

In any case, that is not all you were saying...you were implying that people somehow get a free ride on EI. You called them bums, and seasonal workers, and said that it was all a political ploy.

No, there is no minimum benefit rate. There is a maximum. You can't make below a certain amount because of minimum wage laws.

Now, explain why you think someone should only be eligible to collect EI after 2 years of full time work?


Actually yes we do have a min rate. Look at the EI website, and I dont think the rate change has occured yet, but i could be wrong on that point.

Of course most people who get paid $6 a hour never work in one place long enough to qualify for EI and I would support including someone who has worked part time for 2 or 3 years straight getting EI.

But really get another job if you get canned after a few months, not tough to understand...

Actually yes we do have a min rate. Look at the EI website, and I dont think the rate change has occured yet, but i could be wrong on that point.
I did actually look before posting that, and couldn't find one...if it's there, could you please maybe quote it for me, because all I'm finding is the maximum.

Of course most people who get paid $6 a hour never work in one place long enough to qualify for EI and I would support including someone who has worked part time for 2 or 3 years straight getting EI.
You don't have to work in one place to qualify. You could work seventeen different jobs in a year, and still get the hours to qualify. Unfortunately, the way the rules are, those hours have to be gained within a 52 week period.

But really get another job if you get canned after a few months, not tough to understand...Most people do. These EI bums you speak of are a rare bird...for reasons I stated on the first page. You are capped off after a certain number of months, regardless, and the money isn't going to get you very far...that and the fact you have to explain every week why you aren't working yet, and prove that you HAVE been looking encourages most people to get out and find something, anything. I'm not sure why you are so set against it, and I can only come up with the idea that you might be thinking that a lot of people abuse the system. It doesn't happen very often.

Seriously, no one has an opinion about welfare? Or employment insurance? I find that hard to believe...

Ummm...

I'm quite content with both systems. They are not perfect, but our EI has about 25 Billion dollars saved up now so the new procedures are being brought in to keep the money from going up higher.

They are lower the hours from 910 to 840. A drop of 70 hours.

I see the EI system as a benifit, an since I am from Atlantic Canada, I understand that without it, at least 25% of seasonal jobs and people would be dead or moved away from here. Considering the sheer amount of farming and fishing here, it would be murder on Atlantic Canada.

Welfare on the other hand is pathetic. Its about 264 a month for a man and about 310 for a woman, but it's basically free money, and without children in the mix, thats still small, but you CAN survive on it.

Oh and on the "paperwork", its online, and its about 5 questions. Answer them NO NO No YES NO and you win! Unlike the US, its illegal to ask anymore questions about a persons personal life than those, I guess.

There. My opinion...

No the rate will be increased to 55% after the change, trust me i know i was on EI.

You also get a minimum benfit rate.

I was just saying one hsould have to work about 2 years or so in order to qualifiy.


Sorry, in Canada, its 55% now. I have first hand information. (The benefit card is in front of me beside my paperwork)

There. My opinion...
Thanks!

As to the paperwork thing being online...that works great if you have access to a computer or can afford an internet connection. Otherwise you have to phone it in or drop of your cards. Also, an agent can contact you and demand proof that you are looking for a job. So keep records of every resume you fax, hand out etc...and every place you stop by to ask if a position is available...

I don't know. 40 hours/week * 50 weeks/year = 2000 hours/year in my math.

Seems like we're pretty generous with unemployment, too. I can't remember the details any more. When I was in college, I think you only had to work 20 - 26 weeks to qualify, so my summer contruction work was never enough.

Fifty percent after 18 weeks work. Pretty good deal. Eventually, all of us welfare states are going to suffer some serious economic problems. I think it was New Zealand that finally woke up to the fact that it was going bankrupt and made a dramatic shift in it's government spending policies.

That was the national government in the early 90s, the current labour government is trying to make families welfare dependant rather than give out tax cuts. And we have a $7 billion surplus.
To disguise the rocketing levels of sickness beneficaries, we are going to go to a single benefit for all types and then top-ups for special circumstances.
ACT, the party I belong to has proven NZ can go to a 20% flat tax and keep funding at the same level as before the surplus was wasted on pointless feel good projects. NZ would even gain 1% growth per year.

I did actually look before posting that, and couldn't find one...if it's there, could you please maybe quote it for me, because all I'm finding is the maximum.


You don't have to work in one place to qualify. You could work seventeen different jobs in a year, and still get the hours to qualify. Unfortunately, the way the rules are, those hours have to be gained within a 52 week period.

Most people do. These EI bums you speak of are a rare bird...for reasons I stated on the first page. You are capped off after a certain number of months, regardless, and the money isn't going to get you very far...that and the fact you have to explain every week why you aren't working yet, and prove that you HAVE been looking encourages most people to get out and find something, anything. I'm not sure why you are so set against it, and I can only come up with the idea that you might be thinking that a lot of people abuse the system. It doesn't happen very often.


The system is abused though, we should be cutting the charges we get on our paychecks.

By moving around i just meant people have part time jobs that dont give them enough hours to get EI. sorry bout that. We should have part time EI.

But dont you think we would have a better system if one would have to work about 3000 hours and perhaps get higher rates at say 75% than working only 700 hours?

I cant support my theory that a large portion of EI claims are by seasonal working but neither can you disclaim the idea that seasonal workers could be abusing the system.

If you work a seasonal job weather you are a fisherman or even someone working on a oil rig, you should only get benefits if you have worked a couple of years....

Sorry, in Canada, its 55% now. I have first hand information. (The benefit card is in front of me beside my paperwork)


wells its changed i guess, last year it was 45% for me. I got 29 weeks of gravy :)

I also worked about 3 years though... ;)

1.The number one job is a truck driver. Basically they're bring America there sh*t.
.

Then wouldn't the #1 job be the creation of Canadian 'shit'?

idoit liberals
Idoit whats with that mistake? I've seen it by 2 people just today and google gives 18,500 results! It doesn't even make sence if you say it outloud!

I think one reason that the gov is raising the amount you get on EI, and lessening the number of hours you need to receive it is because of complains from our Auditor General. You know, the lady that exposed the Sponsership Scandal?

She says that the government is raking in cash through employee and employer contributions and that there is a big ol'bank account that the gov't doesn't pay back to people who become unemployed through no fault of the ir own. (ie: not fired).

In fact, in the past, the gov't has used this as an open fund to pay for things other than EI. Not just the Liberals - this has been going on basically since EI/UI got started.

Anyway Sheila Fraser (I think that's her name) has reminded the current gov't that they're running budget surpluses, have enormous amounts of cash in the EI account, but are still running by the new rules installed in the 90's that further limited eligibility and the amount of cash a recipient was permitted. (Remember when UI changed to EI?) Well, tightening the belts of the unemployed may have made sense while we were running budget deficits everywhere, but now she's reminding the gov't that folks are paying into that fund and they have the right to make use of that fund when they need it.

As for seasonal workers, well, Canada has a huge primary resource base and a big tourism industry, and a lot of that is pretty much always going to seasonal, no matter how you cut it. They are a huge part of our economy, and we need people to fill those jobs. Punishing them for filling them by not permitting them to take EI when the season ends is pretty stupid - that's a really good way of encouraging people to just go on welfare, because at least then you get a (crappy) check year round.

By the way, have any of you read:

The Efficient Society: Why Canada is as Close to Utopia as It Gets by economist and philospher Joseph Heath?

(Yes, the title is supposed to be provoking. In the book he certainly doesn't consider Canada perfect.)

Anyway, he does an excellent job explaining why social safety nets such as old age security, universal healthcare, EI, and welfare are necessary (among other things). I don't agree with all his arguements but it is an excellent read. It's even got funny bits! I highly recommend it.

In fact, I've got an extra copy that I'm willing to send to the first person willing to share their real name and address with me.

(I bought 3 copies just to hand out for people, I enjoyed the book so much. The caveat to receiving it is that you have to pass it on to someone else when you're done. You could call it a literary meme. I still have one copy left.)

NOt really welfare here in canada, but EI.

Basically, the government is considering lower the requirements to get EI.

Right now its at about 750 hours of work. They want to lower it to 700. This would be about 6 months of work. COMPLETE BS!!!

This is bullshit, something like EI should be for people who actually have worked for some time, not seasonal workers who want to get on the lam after doing 5 ~ 6 months of work. You should have to work about 2 years to qualify.

I dont think this shoudl apply to people who support kids though....

So instead of dishing out this extra money to fucking bums who dont want to get another job in the "off season" why not lower taxes or spend the money on something usefull like education or health care?

Fucking idoit liberals trying to buy votes in the welfare provinces of quebec + all the east coast. :rolleyes:

Sounds sort of like how American liberals buy votes in urban centers across America.

Wow. Offer a free book and you kill the conversation. Who knew?