NationStates Jolt Archive

WASHINGTON - Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal
immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a
potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen.
Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing
themselves civilian border patrol agents determined to stop the immigration
flow that routinely, and easily, seeps past federal authorities. They plan
to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April
when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.
"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim
Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is
helping recruit Minutemen across the country.
"We've been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into
our own hands," said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, Calif. "That is an
outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law
enforcement."
Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on
the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence show that al-Qaida
terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexico border, James
Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last
week.
"Several al-Qaida leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the
country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous
than legal entry for operational security reasons," Loy said in written
testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7006708/

Sounds like great fun. Get some guns, booze, and a few hundred men to all go out into the desert, get drunk, shoot themselves or each other, and die of exposure.

Vigilante border patrol, protecting your family from Strawberry pickers and future McDonalds employees since 2005.

hail my aryan brothers on the border














y'all know these boys are thinly disgused white supremacists right, possible connected to the national alliance

Who cares? They are keeping out potential carriers of diseases, those that wish for harm on this country, and lawbreakers. As long as they don't hurt anyone, they are simply doing their job.
Next, they should go to Mexico City and force Vincente Fox outta office. He's a great guy, but his government can't keep writing manuels on how to survive illegal border crossings. I'm actually glad that many of these lawbreakers die in the Sonora Desert.

Why doesn't America spend money creating jobs in Mexico, instead of spending money keeping them out. It just increases the resolve of the migrants, in search of a better life.

Why doesn't America spend money creating jobs in Mexico, instead of spending money keeping them out. It just increases the resolve of the migrants, in search of a better life.
We do, but just not the government. They don't need to. However, Mexico comes right after China as the destination of the most US investments. Besides, things have improved dramatically in Mexico since NAFTA and the currency revaluation of 1996.

Who cares? They are keeping out potential carriers of diseases, those that wish for harm on this country, and lawbreakers. As long as they don't hurt anyone, they are simply doing their job.
Next, they should go to Mexico City and force Vincente Fox outta office. He's a great guy, but his government can't keep writing manuels on how to survive illegal border crossings. I'm actually glad that many of these lawbreakers die in the Sonora Desert.
perhaps what we need is a final solution for the mexican immigration problem... oh i don't know... some sort of permanent fix for this nagging social blight... i'm sure the minutemen have such a long term plan, if you really get to know them... lol

So who will monitor and police the actions of these heavily-armed thugs?

That's scary. Fortunately, I 've read that human rights organisations are going to be following these vigilantes' every move to protect people from them.

perhaps what we need is a final solution for the mexican immigration problem... oh i don't know... some sort of permanent fix for this nagging social blight... i'm sure the minutemen have such a long term plan, if you really get to know them... lol
I'm actually not opposed to immigration. In fact, I believe our immigration laws are far too strict. What I am opposed to are these immigrants pouring over the border whereever they damn please. We need to make sure they aren't terrorists or carry diseases, and we need to channel them through a few crossing points. Otherwise, I have no problem with Mexicans, Guatemalans, Poles, Colombians, Chinese, or any other illegals being shot if they dare try getting into this country illegally.

That's scary. Fortunately, I 've read that human rights organisations are going to be following these vigilantes' every move to protect people from them.
I don't know whether there are enough observers though.

It's inevitable that someone is going to shoot a defenseless immigrant here, I think it's just a matter of time.

By the way, I actually live in AZ...scary place to be. But I wrote in to our despicable excuse for a newspaper about the whole deal. Said that the Minutemen should be required to spend time in the poorest part of Mexico before joining the project. Somehow I think that might cut their recruitment down a bit...

I'm actually not opposed to immigration. In fact, I believe our immigration laws are far too strict. What I am opposed to are these immigrants pouring over the border whereever they damn please. We need to make sure they aren't terrorists or carry diseases, and we need to channel them through a few crossing points. Otherwise, I have no problem with Mexicans, Guatemalans, Poles, Colombians, Chinese, or any other illegals being shot if they dare try getting into this country illegally.
like the soviet era east german border guards but in reverse right... oh wait didn't we say shooting people trying to flee eastern europe was a crime against humanity, weren't those border guards and government officials tried for their crimes after the fall of the soviet bloc?

I'm actually not opposed to immigration. In fact, I believe our immigration laws are far too strict. What I am opposed to are these immigrants pouring over the border whereever they damn please. We need to make sure they aren't terrorists or carry diseases, and we need to channel them through a few crossing points. Otherwise, I have no problem with Mexicans, Guatemalans, Poles, Colombians, Chinese, or any other illegals being shot if they dare try getting into this country illegally.
That sounds like a well thought out, reasonable plan...


:rolleyes:

Five-hundred people to guard the Arizona border? This might be a little bit difficult.

I applaud my Mexican comrades in their bravery.

I wasn't aware that Arizona was of any intrinsic value...

Sounds like great fun. Get some guns, booze, and a few hundred men to all go out into the desert, get drunk, shoot themselves or each other, and die of exposure.

Vigilante border patrol, protecting your family from Strawberry pickers and future McDonalds employees since 2005.

Well said.

As a phoenix arizonan I must say that it is my ferverent hope that several of the 'minutemen' shoot one another and that a couple die of heat stroke.


Aside from being morally repugnant, they do measures to give arizona a worse name than it already has.

There's no justice like angry mob justice.

makes me want to form a group to help them get past the border (and the white supremacists). like some sort of railroad. an underground railroad, you might say.

Hey, how about this for a crazy idea.

Divert some of the wasted military money out of the budget and use it to pay for border security!

Or, instead of 'reforming' social security (with its estimated 2 trillion USD changeover cost) protect the border!


oh...wait. That would make sense. Right, my bad.

Hey, how about this for a crazy idea.

Divert some of the wasted military money out of the budget and use it to pay for border security!

Or, instead of 'reforming' social security (with its estimated 2 trillion USD changeover cost) protect the border!


oh...wait. That would make sense. Right, my bad.


Common sense? I think you need to shut the fuck up and go back to france SON. THIS IS AMERICA~!

Common sense? I think you need to shut the fuck up and go back to france SON. THIS IS AMERICA~!
we don't need none o'your . . .sense. . .here.

What are you? A cheese eatin' surrender monkey?


Well boy? Speak up!

It's inevitable that someone is going to shoot a defenseless immigrant here, I think it's just a matter of time.

And considering that the most desparate are often pregnant women, I wouldn't be surprised if that's who they end up shooting.

Seriously though, the entire economy of this country would fall apart if we actually stopped illegal immigration.

We have a right to determine who immigrates to this country in any case.. if a bunch of retirees and bored veterans want to take their RV's down to Cochise County and tag along with la Migra, that's their perogative. I don't see how it's gonna help their cause, but whatever, it's legal.

We have a right to determine who immigrates to this country in any case.. if a bunch of retirees and bored veterans want to take their RV's down to Cochise County and tag along with la Migra, that's their perogative. I don't see how it's gonna help their cause, but whatever, it's legal.
Shooting people isn't, though.

Well, here's hoping the immigrants and gun-mad psychos blow each other away. Overpopulation is an issue.

We have a right to determine who immigrates to this country in any case.. if a bunch of retirees and bored veterans want to take their RV's down to Cochise County and tag along with la Migra, that's their perogative. I don't see how it's gonna help their cause, but whatever, it's legal.

And what about when they don't "tag along" with anybody? What happens when they take the law into their own hands? Who watches the watchers?

We'll watch the watchers. I mean c'mon, this is going to end up either as something like COPS or a new reality show about psychos scoring points for killing people. The Price of Entertainment is Eternal Conflict.

Shooting people isn't, though.

They're not planning on shooting anyone, and they'd have to shoot nonstop for the whole month to equal how many immigrants coyotes (not the animal)have killed. I've never seen a proven case where a vigilante shot an immigrant unprovoked in recent history.

And what about when they don't "tag along" with anybody? What happens when they take the law into their own hands? Who watches the watchers?

It's a 23-mile stretch, and the Border Patrol has air support. The ACLU has promised 2 observers for every 'minuteman,' but it won't matter and they won't make that quota anyway. This is a highly-publicized event.

They're not planning on shooting anyone, and they'd have to shoot nonstop for the whole month to equal how many immigrants coyotes (not the animal)have killed. I've never seen a proven case where a vigilante shot an immigrant unprovoked in recent history.
Maybe because they killed a person in the middle of the desert who has no records in this country and a family at home who is not expecting them to come home anyway?

No one is saying every immigrant out there is nice and friendly, but thats not especially relevant either.

Maybe because they killed a person in the middle of the desert who has no records in this country and a family at home who is not expecting them to come home anyway?

Yeah, maybe. Maybe there's hordes of racist killers hunting illegals in the Sonoran desert on the U.S. side. Evidence would help to prove things like this though.

No one is saying every immigrant out there is nice and friendly, but thats not especially relevant either.

I know it's not relevant. That's why I didn't bring it up. Coyotes aren't immigrants.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe there's hordes of racist killers hunting illegals in the Sonoran desert on the U.S. side. Evidence would help to prove things like this though.



I know it's not relevant. That's why I didn't bring it up. Coyotes aren't immigrants.
I was just making the point that you're claim is tenous at best. I wasn't claiming that was happening.

Also, apparently I don't know what Coyotes are.

I was just making the point that you're claim is tenous at best. I wasn't claiming that was happening.


My claim is only that the "MMP" people, some of whom I've seen post on other message boards, aren't going to kill anyone. They have no power to apprehend immigrants, only to radio in activity to the border patrol. They won't be walking up to them and trying to physically stop them.

I have no clue whether the MMP is a good idea, or if it'll work, or if there absolutely won't be a bad apple that will whig out and take potshots at an immigrant. But the latter part just isn't very likely.

Edit: coyotes are the guys you pay to take you over the border, who, since many immigrants bring everything they own and all their money with them, sometimes put a bullet in their clients, rob them, and leave them dying or dead.

As far as I know, Coyotes are related to dogs and wolves. Perhaps Pepe meant to place quotation marks around the word "Coyotes" in order to indicate this was some unofficial nickname for a particular band of thugs with nothing better to do than to harass migrant workers...and the overpowered SUVs and shotguns to do it with.

As far as I know, Coyotes are related to dogs and wolves. Perhaps Pepe meant to place quotation marks around the word "Coyotes" in order to indicate this was some unofficial nickname for a particular band of thugs with nothing better to do than to harass migrant workers...and the overpowered SUVs and shotguns to do it with.

Coyotes have been a problem for decades, not just some term I invented. Every Mexican immigrant or border resident knows about coyotes, and a large number unfortunately rely on their services. Coyotes are often in league with gangs, but not always.

Coyotes have been a problem for decades, not just some term I invented. Every Mexican immigrant or border resident knows about coyotes, and a large number unfortunately rely on their services. Coyotes are often in league with gangs, but not always.

So I take it you're NOT referring to members of the canine family. So then...unh...ehmmm...

WTF are "Coyotes" already?? Sheesh!

So I take it you're NOT referring to members of the canine family. So then...unh...ehmmm...

WTF are "Coyotes" already?? Sheesh!

Coyote is a slang term for an immigrant smuggler. Usually the worst kind that cares not for the safety of the immigrants, but merely the profit to be made from the smuggling.

It is not a particularly enlightened term.

So I take it you're NOT referring to members of the canine family. So then...unh...ehmmm...

WTF are "Coyotes" already?? Sheesh!

Coyotes are the guys you pay to take you over the border, who, since many immigrants bring everything they own and all their money with them, sometimes put a bullet in their clients, rob them, and leave them dying or dead. They traffick in human cargo, essentially. Some are reliable, and some are just disguised theives and killers.

Thanks for filling me in. Y'know, if I was one of these 'coyotes', I think I'd be joining this 'minuteman' dealie to have access to inside information...

...but I'm not, so I wouldn't, but there it is nonetheless. I can't imagine there's a rigorous screening process involved in membership, is there?

Thanks for filling me in. Y'know, if I was one of these 'coyotes', I think I'd be joining this 'minuteman' dealie to have access to inside information...

...but I'm not, so I wouldn't, but there it is nonetheless. I can't imagine there's a rigorous screening process involved in membership, is there?


Soemthing gives me the vague impression that these are middle-aged white men. I doubt that a coyote would fit that description.

Besides, they're only hanging out in one small area of the border - it would be easier to go somewhere else and cross.

makes me want to form a group to help them get past the border (and the white supremacists). like some sort of railroad. an underground railroad, you might say.

Dude...let's do it. :cool:

(Get your mind out of the gutter, boy!)

three of my very best friends are there right now. there were numbers 19, 20 and 21 to sign up for the minute man project. the organizer is lives a town away and is an upstanding guy. its not what people are stereotyping it as.

Why doesn't America spend money creating jobs in Mexico, instead of spending money keeping them out. It just increases the resolve of the migrants, in search of a better life.
They've already got most of our GM manufacturing plants. It's not like we're not feeling the pinch here at home from losing those jobs.