NationStates Jolt Archive

We, 1984, and Brave New World are generally considered the "Holy Trinity" of dystopic or anti-utopian fiction. Of these, which is your favorite and why?

I'd have to say that We is my current favorite of the three, being not only an originator of the genre, but by far the most beautiful from a stylistic sense. We's prose easily surpasses that of Brave New World, and is definitely more vivid than Orwell's more journalistic style in 1984

Anywho, share your thoughts.

1984 is the only one I've read.

Having read neither We, nor Brave new world, I can't comment on which I prefer. 1984, however, is the only novel I have ever read that has scared me... and I consider it a particularly well-written story. That's it, really.

Well of the two ive read BNW and 1984 i prefer BNW... though i will make a note to read We

We, pretty much for the same reasons.

Really I should read both We and Brave New World again, been time since I last did and I can barely remember them.

PS: Your name anything to do with Zamyatin?

I've heard of the others, but what is We about, besides dystopia?

...I voted for 1984, but I might be biased because I read "We" in Russian and "Brave New World" for school.

1984 is doubleplusgood.

PS: Your name anything to do with Zamyatin?

Those rumors are utterly unfounded, I wholeheartedly deny those utterly unfounded rumors. Only a John Kerry-lickin' commie liberal would dare to utter such unfounded rumors to me in such a wholehearted manner requiring my denials utterly. But seriously, yeah it does.

I've heard of the others, but what is We about, besides dystopia?

It's similar to 1984 - in that it is a story of Man meets Rebel-Girl, man and rebel-Girl rebel and replace Big Brother with the Great Benefactor, Oceania with OneState, Thinkpol with the Guardians - those elements are pretty much the same (except We was written earlier than 1984, so really it's Orwell ripping off Zamyatin - not that it's bad, just true).

In We, D-503 is the chief builder of the starship INTEGRAL, being constructed by OneState to journey to other planets and bring aliens under the beneficial yoke of reason and mathematically calculated happiness. Then he meets a woman (I-333? I can't remember now), and of course questions his values. There are a lot of references to Christianity in there too, implying that OneState is like God, and the Rebels like Satan - which, being Christian, I'd find offensive if this pole were more firmly inserted.

I like 1984 the best, as it is most effective at communicating the terror of a police state, the grim, grey potential that Blair saw in the world. *shivers*

Needless to say, I enjoyed BNW, but as of yet, have not gotten around to reading more than an excerpt from "We"

Probably 'We' here as well.

Really I should read both We and Brave New World again, been time since I last did and I can barely remember them.

Throw a copy of Ayn Rand's dystopian novel Anthem on to that pile for light relief: it is so hilariously earnest and so hilariously wrong at the same time. Never fails to raise a smile from me for all the wrong reasons...

I've only read 1984 and Brave New World but among those two I prefer 1984. While I feel that Brave New World is a better written novel, it didn't seem as plausible or have as profound an impact on me as 1984.

In We, D-503 is the chief builder of the starship INTEGRAL, being constructed by OneState to journey to other planets and bring aliens under the beneficial yoke of reason and mathematically calculated happiness. Then he meets a woman (I-333? I can't remember now), and of course questions his values. There are a lot of references to Christianity in there too, implying that OneState is like God, and the Rebels like Satan - which, being Christian, I'd find offensive if this pole were more firmly inserted.

Well to help[/try] put this in context.

I was told Zamyatin was stronlgy influenced by the Russian Anarchist, Bakunin. Who interpreted the Christian God as being "the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty." And Satan as being "the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge."

[From God and the State]

Throw a copy of Ayn Rand's dystopian novel Anthem on to that pile for light relief: it is so hilariously earnest and so hilariously wrong at the same time. Never fails to raise a smile from me for all the wrong reasons...

Ooh, never heard of that before. Only read the Fountainhead before, how does it compare to that?

I voted 1984, but put Huxley just a step behind. I preferred The Doors of Perception, how do you really choose among these?

Well of the two ive read BNW and 1984 i prefer BNW... though i will make a note to read We

what he sed.

I think that Brave New World is closer to happening.

While we can't use test tube babies (yet), the media (hymnopaedia) conditions kids to think a certain way. And people are 'belonging to everyone else' a WHOLE lot earlier in life. (Maybe not as early as in BNW, but, soon).

Here's a good short review of We (http://www.greenmanreview.com/book/book_zamyatin_we.html). I've not read it.
I am wondering where the other greats are: Fahrenheit 451, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, The Handmaid's Tale anyone?

Fahrenheit 451 foretold the coming of the iPod (white seashells in people's ears--they don't talk about real things but about 'music').

I think that Brave New World is closer to happening.

While we can't use test tube babies (yet), the media (hymnopaedia) conditions kids to think a certain way. And people are 'belonging to everyone else' a WHOLE lot earlier in life. (Maybe not as early as in BNW, but, soon).

Of the three on the list, yes. But something like The Sheep Look Up, Stand on Zanzibar, Make Room! Make Room!, or Snow Crash are even closer.

brave new world somehow manages to combine aspects of both communism and capitalism in it, creating something of a fused dystopia. 1984 is much more a commie dystopia, and i havent read we, so i dont have a comment on that one.

I've only read 1984 and Brave New World but among those two I prefer 1984. While I feel that Brave New World is a better written novel, it didn't seem as plausible or have as profound an impact on me as 1984.


well keeping in mind the time in which these books were written, the idea is too overexagerate enough so as too serve as a warning against continuing trends of the time. BNW, written at the end of the roaring twenties, with the idea of birth control emmerging, along with the endless displays of the "sinful" world during prohibition and the times after, warns against a world in which there are no more mothers and people are controlled by the very basest of their own desires. 1984, written after the world wars after orwell witnessed the government control of the media (he worked in the press in spain while franco was there i believe), the rise of the soviet union and beginnings of the cold war, warned against communism and totalitarian governments.

Here's a good short review of We (http://www.greenmanreview.com/book/book_zamyatin_we.html). I've not read it.
I am wondering where the other greats are: Fahrenheit 451, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, The Handmaid's Tale anyone?

I wouldn't really call Lord of the Flies a dystopic story (although I admit I have never hought about it that way).

A Clockwork Orange is fantastic. Must read that again too (adds that growing pile of Dystopias-to-read[-again]). Love it, although I must admit I do have a bias towards Burgess.

The other two I have always wanted to read but have never got around to. :(

Of the three on the list, yes. But something like The Sheep Look Up, Stand on Zanzibar, Make Room! Make Room!, or Snow Crash are even closer.loved SnowCrash. America... the land of the pizza deliverymen - the Deliverators

and you never embarrase Uncle Eno.

I wouldn't really call Lord of the Flies a dystopic story (although I admit I have never hought about it that way).

Here's (http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/dystopia_definition.htm) an interesting discussion of dystopias that points out why Lord of the Flies may or may not be one (hinging on whether the island was a society).

A Clockwork Orange is fantastic. Must read that again too (adds that growing pile of Dystopias-to-read[-again]). Love it, although I must admit I do have a bias towards Burgess.

The other two I have always wanted to read but have never got around to. :(

Fahrenheit 451 is awesome.
The Handmaid's Tale is ok.
The Sheep Look Up is great.
Stand on Zanzibar is pretty good.
Make Room! Make Room! looks more and more like Paul Ehrlich, with his failed The Population Bomb.
Snow Crash has a nice sharp edge.
The Shockwave Rider has some relly good p[oints.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep was just simply amazing.
And Jennifer Government Absolutely deserves a mention! ;)

There are lots more good ones out there. Pretty much anything dystopian by Bruce Sterling is good, and quite realisticly up to date.

Here's (http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/dystopia_definition.htm) an interesting discussion of dystopias that points out why Lord of the Flies may or may not be one (hinging on whether the island was a society).

Interesting. Thanks.

Fahrenheit 451 is awesome.
The Handmaid's Tale is ok.
The Sheep Look Up is great.
Stand on Zanzibar is pretty good.
Make Room! Make Room! looks more and more like Paul Ehrlich, with his failed The Population Bomb.
Snow Crash has a nice sharp edge.
The Shockwave Rider has some relly good p[oints.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep was just simply amazing.
And Jennifer Government Absolutely deserves a mention! ;)

There are lots more good ones out there. Pretty much anything dystopian by Bruce Sterling is good, and quite realisticly up to date.

*sigh*

So many books, so little time. Makes me wish I could go on holiday just to read them. The Sheep Look up sounds interesting (never judge by its cover, but judging it by its title is OK )
[Bolding mine]

The ones I've bolded I've read. Out of them Stand On Zanzibar and Do Androids Of Electric Sheep are tied, with Jennifer Government being good but not as good as the other two.

Objectively, I might think that Stand on Zanzibar is better, but I am such a PKD geek I'm not objective.

*sigh*

So many books, so little time.

I actually have a t-shirt with that on the front. (x-mas gift from mom - she has the best taste in t-shirts - this xmas' shirt (http://prodtn.cafepress.com/5/5390575_F_tn.jpg) - even more notable as I'm 1/4 indian.)

Makes me wish I could go on holiday just to read them. The Sheep Look up sounds interesting (never judge by its cover, but judging it by its title is OK )
[Bolding mine]

The ones I've bolded I've read. Out of them Stand On Zanzibar and Do Androids Of Electric Sheep are tied, with Jennifer Government being good but not as good as the other two.

If you really wanted, I could probably give you a list of way too many books to read if you wanted... :D

Objectively, I might think that Stand on Zanzibar is better, but I am such a PKD geek I'm not objective.

I hear you. I'm the same way about Bruce Sterling and John Varley.

I found We to be rather weak, but that may be because it suffered during translation. Brave New World and 1984 both had rather weak stories (particularly BNW, since it only introduces the main character halfway through), despite excellent vision of the future. Lord of the Flies really doesn't count in my opinion. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is funny, and has a strong plot, but lacks a certain gravity to it's distopia. Make Room, Make Room is possibly the most feasible, despite perhaps being the weakest book mentioned here so far. Oh, and Clockwork Orange seems pretty much like most Friday nights in London nowadays.

I should like to mention that the reason I only placed We, 1984 and Brave New World on the poll is because these are generally considered the three main dystopian books by the people who decide on these sorts of things.

::remembers he should read A Clockwork Orange::

I should like to mention that the reason I only placed We, 1984 and Brave New World on the poll is because these are generally considered the three main dystopian books by the people who decide on these sorts of things.

::remembers he should read A Clockwork Orange::

Actually I've always heard it as 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451. Those were the three on the Englis lit. curriculum at my high school and colleges.

Those three are popular in the curriculums I think because they were written in English and are more contemporary, while We is much older and originally Russian. Usually, the people who include We in the Dystopian Trinity are trying to sell it or have read it, I think.

Those three are popular in the curriculums I think because they were written in English and are more contemporary, while We is much older and originally Russian. Usually, the people who include We in the Dystopian Trinity are trying to sell it or have read it, I think.

Or to try and assert some sort of intellectual superiority.

Or to try and assert some sort of intellectual superiority.

Hmmm... yes, I think I might be one of those...

Out of BNW and 1984, I prefer BNW. Even though both of them felt weaker towards the end, the love-story subplot in 1984 annoyed me far more than the ending of BNW.

I don't know, maybe I'm strange, but I was far more interested in the discussion and descriptions of the societies than in the characters.

Maybe I should re-read them both now that I'm older and less sillay.

Haven't read We, loved A Clockwork Orange (although I'm one of very few people who prefered the movie, apparently) and Lord of the Flies.

Cheez, this thread is making me want to start reading books again... Watchmen and Sandman will be most unimpressed (evil comic-book overlords! *stabs*!)