NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/10943781.htm?1c

Patrick McMullen's wife and six children said he held them hostage for years in a converted nightclub behind an eight-foot double fence.

With dark cloth covering the windows, he raped his daughters, beat his wife and kept his family so isolated they didn't know how to turn on a shower before they finally fled in May 2001, family members said.

At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.

Just hope he's got butterfingers and drops the soap....several times a day.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/10943781.htm?1c



At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.

Nah, there are worse things we can do to this assfuck than the death penalty. For people like him, cruel and unusual punishment should be allowed.

Someone remind me why we don't just take animals like this out back and kill 'em?
Because we are not animals

Because we are not animals
We shoot rabid dogs don't we?

Rabid dogs deserve better treatment than that scumbag.

We shoot rabid dogs don't we?

But that's out of necessity - both for their comfort and for others' safety. Killing this person would achieve neither.

Assuming he really is as unredeemable as you're suggesting (I can't access the article), he shouldn't be allowed out of jail though.

Capital punishment is barbaric because of its very nature and is unrelated to the question of whether or not it is justified. Even if you disagree with this, another argument against it is not for protection of people like this, but for protection of other people who, for whatever reason, unjustly fall within whatever arbitrary line is set.

http://news.google.com/news?q=Patrick%20McMullen&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn
If you use firefox access the articles form google

Maybe he raped his daughters in self defense.

Keep, in mind, we are still talking about a human, albeit, one whose conduct is very much less than exemplary. Don't let yourself lose your humanity over people like this though. They are not worth it.

PS: Death Penalty is fine. Pulling hard labor in Siberian salt mine for life, much, much better.

PPS: I just don't see how someone could do crap like this though. Does make you thunk that they would have to be less than human to even entertain the notion.

http://news.google.com/news?q=Patrick%20McMullen&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn
If you use firefox access the articles form google

Yeesh. I'll accept that it looks like he should never be let loose on society again. However, I still don't think that capital punishment solves anything. Just lock him away for good.

Force him to be the next goatse man. That'll teach him.

I don't agree with the death penalty, but they should have given him more time. A couple of centuries at least. With only forty years he could be out in less than ten in some states.

thats why we lock up animals like that with other animals so they can torture each other :mp5:

The death penalty is a bit wasteful. Testing medical products and stuff on him will be far more economical and will be a sop to those whinging ARAs. Of course, if he can survive forty years of it then he can be considered rehabilitated.... but I doubt it.

Makes me think we should apply Bob Barker's advice, though instead of pets insert 'sicko criminal assholes'.

So remember, have your sicko criminal assholes spayed or neutered.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Why waste a bullet/syringe on this scumbag? Lock him up and never let him out.

Why waste a bullet/syringe on this scumbag? Lock him up and never let him out.
Because a .22 hollowpoint through the eye is cheaper than caring for his ass till he dies of natural causes.

Well, even though everyone else seems commited to waving around their brutality dicks; I'll content myself with saying simply this: Justice should be done. The man described seems utterly beyond rehibilitation, the state should place the maximum sentance possilbe against him.

You don't need to be cruel to stop this kind of violence. You need to be just strong enough to stop this evil, and compassionate enough to help the victims. The most amazing people in the world are those who turn away cruelty and hatred without losing themselves to weakness.

Well, even though everyone else seems commited to waving around their brutality dicks; I'll content myself with saying simply this: Justice should be done. The man described seems utterly beyond rehibilitation, the state should place the maximum sentance possilbe against him.

You don't need to be cruel to stop this kind of violence. You need to be just strong enough to stop this evil, and compassionate enough to help the victims. The most amazing people in the world are those who turn away cruelty and hatred without losing themselves to weakness.

How do you propose 'stopping the evil' before it's too late and someone gets hurt?

That's the part of me that needs to verbally (typed above, in my previous post) vent at this kind of stuff. It isn't about 'waving around brutality dicks'. It can be a good thing to vent anger. The other part agrees with your last statement. Although, part of me wonders if cruelty is the only language that "people" like that understand.

It doesn't really matter if a person like that understands his behaviour is wrong, at least if you aren't going to let him out in society anymore. The most you can do to "stop the evil" is remove them from anywhere that they can harm innocents.

Cruel punishments, or even the death penalty, are not going to deter others from committing similar crimes if they are going to do so otherwise. There is no way this guy was thinking "well, no matter what I'll be out in 40 years' time".

I don't like having people killed in my name even when I feel they're scum. Though someone like this' chance of being rehabilitated is almost nil, I don't find state sponsored murder anymore palatable. Most of the scariest offenders (serial killers, serial rapists, child molesters) are motivated by urges they find impossible to control. Some have even tried to get help by asking for mental health assistance or requesting they not be released from prison. They know they'll repeat the offense. There seems to be some serious difference in the way their brains work. If it's some sort of brain disorder or defect, they are mentally ill. But if someone is mentally ill in a manner where they will always be a threat to others, they should be kept away from the rest of us for good. But not by being as sick as they are and murdering them.

H^2s and MJs don't appear in a vacuum. The psychological influences of society play a rôle, or do you seriously propose killing (or executing to use the PC term) anyone in Japan who likes lolicon hentai?

Because a .22 hollowpoint through the eye is cheaper than caring for his ass till he dies of natural causes.
Actually life imprisonment is cheaper than death penalty.

Actually life imprisonment is cheaper than death penalty.
Only when the trials drag on for years. I seriously doubt if he made an appeal that it wouldn't take 14 seconds to decide.

Just hope he's got butterfingers and drops the soap....several times a day.

ROFLMAO!!!!! :D

But that's out of necessity - both for their comfort and for others' safety. Killing this person would achieve neither.
I don't want my tax dollars keeping this scumbag alive. Send him to the chair.

There is no reason to let him live.

Actually life imprisonment is cheaper than death penalty.
Bullshit.

How much does it cost to shoot somebody in the head?

How much does it cost to feed and house somebody for a lifetime?

How do you propose 'stopping the evil' before it's too late and someone gets hurt?

That's the part of me that needs to verbally (typed above, in my previous post) vent at this kind of stuff. It isn't about 'waving around brutality dicks'. It can be a good thing to vent anger. The other part agrees with your last statement. Although, part of me wonders if cruelty is the only language that "people" like that understand.

How would killing this man now stop the violence before someone innocent got hurt? I wasn't proposing we eliminate violence for all time through some miraculous method; I was saying that brutality against this man is wanton. Locking him up and throwing away the key is just as permenant as killing him outright.

There is no languange that this man can understand that will make him not commit this crime again. If you brutalized him, would you then let him out again into society? Would brutality make him repent his sins and "go striaght" ? If not, why do it?

It sickens the psyche to be brutal to someone; Post Traumatic Stress Disorder effects those who do the hurting, as well as those who get hurt, no? By preventing others from burtalizing him, one can stop the cycle of violence with him and begin anew. Sure, there are plenty more horrible people out there, but every little bit helps.

I know that my comment "Waving around brutality dicks" was very offensive. But the point was to insult that very manhood of those using such language so they would be shocked into rational thought. I used such violent language because if I was mewling about peace and goodwill I would be dismissed out of hand as a pansy.

The more impressive looking and aggressive sounding one is, the more the message of peace resonates. Power used wisely ganers great respect.

Bullshit.

How much does it cost to shoot somebody in the head?


Millions if they want to be sure that they're shooting the right person; The credibility of the entire government if they don't.

The real problem with the death penality is that you can't resurrect someone if out later discover that he is innocent.
At least, you can't without fairly wasteful superscience or dangerous balck magic.
A startling number of people are proven to be innocent after spending years in jail. Not got off on a technicality but Honest-to-God beyond any doubt innocent. If those people were just executed right on the spot there would be no justification for any government. You might as well just hand out guns and tell everyone to shoot whoever they want.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/10943781.htm?1c



At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.


I never understood the obcession with the death penalty. Solitary confinement for the rest of is life is probably worse than death o.O (plus, has the advantage of being overturned if the guy is innocent, and is actually cheaper!)

We shoot rabid dogs don't we?
A dog is not equal to a human

A dog is not equal to a humanIn some cases, the dog far exceeds the 'human' in value.

The straight dope is that pædophilia (the desire, not the choice to rape) is the result of society. While I don't deny individual responsibility by any means (I am an existentialist, afterall), the simple fact is that this and so much more could have been prevented if people would let go of the inane notion that hierarchy and authority are not only necessary but good for us and should be used whenever possible.

The appeals system that goes along with capital punishment costs millions of dollars, much more than it does to feed and house a person for the rest of their life.

I would rather see 1000 guilty men not get the death penalty than one innocent man get killed because of it.

If we were 100% positive(impossible), I'd be all for capital punishment. However, the prospect of an innocent man losing his life to me is not worth the risk. At least if you put him(or her, can't be sexist) in prison for life, if an error is discovered you can at least give them SOME OF THEIR LIFE BACK.

So many people jsut get unlucky and are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Would you be in favor of capital punishment if you were wrongly accused and put to death. I don't think so.

I know we need to have faith in our judicial system, but one failure in this situation is simply too much for me to handle.

The appeals system that goes along with capital punishment costs millions of dollars, much more than it does to feed and house a person for the rest of their life.I find the willingness of people to abandon persons to a life (and usually a life without parole) in prison with limited access to an appellate process based on pure economics disturbing.

If we were 100% positive(impossible), I'd be all for capital punishment.It's not impossible at all. Dahmer, Gacey, Berkowitz all come to mind. I agree that the proof required for the imposition of a capital sentence should be higher than it is now. And I applaud Illinois for it's current hiatus in sentence imposition. But capital punishment is viable with improvement.


So many people jsut get unlucky and are in the wrong place at the wrong time.Like this guy? There are also bona fide pieces of shit out there that deserve to die for their crimes.

Nah, there are worse things we can do to this assfuck than the death penalty. For people like him, cruel and unusual punishment should be allowed.

i agree totally! bring back public torture and hangings!

Why didnt they flee earlier? Or kill him in his sleep. Something is very strange about this story. And where did they get their food? This story is bullshit. Someone obviously made it up.

I think he, as well as any other criminals, should be on their feet doing supervised community service for their misdeeds for however long their sentence is. That way, while we could keep them fed, and in shape, yet they wouldn't be a burden on our society, and a waste of our tax dollars. ^^

-Asylum Nova

I think he, as well as any other criminals, should be on their feet doing supervised community service for their misdeeds for however long their sentence is. That way, while we could keep them fed, and in shape, yet they wouldn't be a burden on our society, and a waste of our tax dollars. ^^

-Asylum NovaAs in a chain gang? That'd work. If you're talking about the fluffy version of community service, said prisoners come into contact with too many people for anyone of this guy's caliber.

Lived in a city that farmed their municipal prisoners out to the library for their community service work--without considering that minor girls tended to work there after school and on Saturday. Yep, that's just what Joe Parent wants to hear... their darling 14-yr-old is spending the afternoon with someone working off their public drunk sentence.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/10943781.htm?1c



At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.

The state must give its citizens the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. NONE of those, I believe, can be taken away without due process.

Yeesh. I'll accept that it looks like he should never be let loose on society again. However, I still don't think that capital punishment solves anything. Just lock him away for good.
You want to pay for him with your tax money? These actions have consequences, you know.

The state must give its citizens the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. NONE of those, I believe, can be taken away without due process.
....which he underwent. If a trial by jury isn't due process, then what, good sir, is?

He'll get whats coming to him in prison, as even convicts have a code of ethics, and what he did is well outside their range of tolerable. Convicts can stand murderers and robbers, but shitheads like this fellow, well, he'll get what he's got coming to him.

As in a chain gang? That'd work. If you're talking about the fluffy version of community service, said prisoners come into contact with too many people for anyone of this guy's caliber.

Lived in a city that farmed their municipal prisoners out to the library for their community service work--without considering that minor girls tended to work there after school and on Saturday. Yep, that's just what Joe Parent wants to hear... their darling 14-yr-old is spending the afternoon with someone working off their public drunk sentence.

That's why I said supervised community service. If there are people to keep an eye on these louts, I think it would be a teriffic idea. Much better than letting them lie around all day in a prison eating our tax dollars, and sentencing them to death. And the more severe the crime, the tougher the work can be. XP

-Asylum Nova

The state must give its citizens the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. NONE of those, I believe, can be taken away without due process.

And you call us anarchists naïve.

Why didnt they flee earlier? Or kill him in his sleep. Something is very strange about this story. And where did they get their food? This story is bullshit. Someone obviously made it up.

There have certainly been odder cases. You sound like the judge who wouldn't believe a woman was raped because she said it happened in a standing position. He didn't believe intercourse could take place while standong, therefore she must be lying.

Wait till ya here the story about the parents who adopted 8 children and abused them:
-using pliers to rip out their toenails
-several beatings
-locked in a closet for hours

You want to pay for him with your tax money? These actions have consequences, you know.

Prisoners can be productive as well. Just think of all those prisoners in New Hampshire stamping out licence plates that read "Live Free or Die!" (apologies to George Carlin). Surely the economics of it are not insoluble, and even if it were, I would prefer that society pay for the few people than demean itself by killing them.

It's actually substantially cheaper to leave someone in prison for life than it is to go through the lengthy process of getting approval for execution.

At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.
You didn't read it very well. At least he will get 40 years. That's when he first comes up for parole.

Furthermore, I hear that guys in prison don't respond well to peopel who rape children, I'm sure he'll have a shity life and sufficient punishment.

You want to pay for him with your tax money? These actions have consequences, you know.
Would you rather have to pay mroe to have him executed?

And he will be facing the consequences in prison where he will probably be treated worse than anyone here can imagine by the inmates. Considering the severity of his crimes, I would be suprised if he didn't get killed within a couple months by the inmates.

Lol, when I first read the title of this thread I was ready to come in here and go off at the thread starter for animal abuse, tee hee :)

Would you rather have to pay mroe to have him executed?

And he will be facing the consequences in prison where he will probably be treated worse than anyone here can imagine by the inmates. Considering the severity of his crimes, I would be suprised if he didn't get killed within a couple months by the inmates.

Inmates don't kill people.....SHIVS kill people :)

Because we are not animals
Oddly enough, we do share a lot of common traits with animals, such as the same biological family, order, phylum...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/10943781.htm?1c



At most this sad sack of shit will only get 40 years. This is why the death penalty is a good thing.

Exactly why the US has the death penalty. Its reserved for demons like this. Although if he were in Europe he would probably be rehabilited or something stupid like that.

I find the willingness of people to abandon persons to a life (and usually a life without parole) in prison with limited access to an appellate process based on pure economics disturbing.
As opposed to death, wherein there is no possibility whatsoever of access to the process and if wrongly convicted there is no possibility of getting back what is lost? I find that a tad more disturbing. Economics is a small part in the debate.

It's not impossible at all. Dahmer, Gacey, Berkowitz all come to mind. I agree that the proof required for the imposition of a capital sentence should be higher than it is now. And I applaud Illinois for it's current hiatus in sentence imposition. But capital punishment is viable with improvement.
Makes sense.

Like this guy? There are also bona fide pieces of shit out there that deserve to die for their crimes.
Of course there are, but by making it available you are making it far too easy for the innocent to get wrongly convicted. There is rarely a 100% chance of someone admitting to such a henious crime (especially when they know they're going to die), and there are usually very variable elements. It's just too big of a risk to let it happen.

Besides, watching someone living the rest of their lives in a jail usually brings more of a retribution upon them than killing them (40 years is definitely a lax sentence in this case). If they're dead they're dead, they don't feel any pain, they don't understand their crimes. I know there are some that never would, but it's not always easy to determine who can and who can't.

Again, he doesn't come up for parole until 40 years. He could be in jail much, much longer. At minimum, it's a 40 year sentece (unless he gets killed while in prison) and since he raped children, the inmates probably won't be too kind. It's probably a fate worse than death.

Inmates don't kill people.....SHIVS kill people :)
Oh there's lots more ways to kill someone in prison than shanking them.

Do a little search and see how Jeffery Dalhmer met his end.



Lets just say it involved a broomstick.

Again, he doesn't come up for parole until 40 years. He could be in jail much, much longer. At minimum, it's a 40 year sentece (unless he gets killed while in prison) and since he raped children, the inmates probably won't be too kind. It's probably a fate worse than death.
So I guess the people who want to shoot him are really being humanitarian :). I know what you mean, I'm just saying that all the people who are incited to anger against this guy are looking down the wrong road. There is no retribution in death, you're just giving him an easy send off (this of course ignoring religious ideals of what happens after you die, but I don't want to turn it into that kind of debate). I'm not necessarily saying that he shouldn't die, just that the eventual consequences that will probably result (it's hard to allow it to happen only in only this case) outweight the benefits.

Oh there's lots more ways to kill someone in prison than shanking them.

Do a little search and see how Jeffery Dalhmer met his end.



Lets just say it involved a broomstick.

That's just lovely. I just think Shivs are neat.