NationStates Jolt Archive

I love the new Simpsons episode about gay marriage.

Did you see it? What was your impression of it and what they were trying to say. I think they completely made fools of the slippery slope people about it leading to people going off and marrying animals and inanimate objects.

It was also awesome when marge went off on Reverand Lovejoy asking him to show where in the bible God was against gay marriage and making her case while he drowned out her voice.

And the part about Homer wanting to marry himself! LMFAO!

Simpson's did it, Simpson's did it..

Hehe I find in pretty much all life situations I can find something related that happened in the simpsons, they are just so awesome.

Hehe I find in pretty much all life situations I can find something related that happened in the simpsons, they are just so awesome.
not to go too far off subject, but i personally enjoy family guy better

A terrific episode and I look foward to the day when it can be shown without a warning at the beginning.

My favorite part was at the end when she refused to marry him because he was a man, and everyone started clapping.

A terrific episode and I look foward to the day when it can be shown without a warning at the beginning.
I swear I thought it was a joke. It couldn't possibly be an actual warning is it?

It was also awesome when marge went off on Reverand Lovejoy asking him to show where in the bible God was against gay marriage and making her case while he drowned out her voice.



You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?

Here goes...


Leviticus 18:22-23 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Kings 14:22-24 - And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.


Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Isaiah 3:9 - The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Luke 17:25-32 - But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 - Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

2 Peter 2:6-9 - And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; ) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7-8 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Originally Posted by Keruvalia
A terrific episode and I look foward to the day when it can be shown without a warning at the beginning.
It had better not have a warning when it's screened in Australia. Talk about overreactions...

My favorite part was when this guy posted a long post about what parts of a religous book says its okay to let the government, a government that promotes (but not acts upon) the seperation of church and state, to steal away civil rights from every single American. I got a laugh indeed.

And before you say whatever, I'd like you to know that I'm a hetero and liberal Muslim.

not to go too far off subject, but i personally enjoy family guy better

But but but...

"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!"

"Marge, I'm going to miss you so much. And it's not just the sex! It's also the food preparation."

"It's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of TV a day."

"I think Mr. Smithers picked me for my motivational skills. Everyone always says they have to work twice as hard when I'm around!"

"You couldn't fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine."

"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

"You know boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like women. You just have to read the manual and press the right button."

"I don't have to be careful, I've got a gun!"

"Marge I swear, I never thought that you would find out."

You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?


Mark 12:28-31

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: `Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
31 The second is this: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Jesus pwns Calvinist Dogma.

Man, if only the Bible weren't so full of hate and vitriol, I could dig it. Thank God for Buddha!

Anyhoo. The part with Homer making out with Homer was by far the funniest part of the episode. And I generally find Family Guy funnier than the Simpsons as well; doesn't mean I can't have a good laugh with the Springfieldites, though.

The episode took pot shots at both sides, though more at the anti-Gay Marriage message.

I once had an article written by a well-educated ArchBishop (he'd completed several degrees and post-doctorates in Theology so I considered him something of an expert in the matter) calmly stating that despite many suggesting otherwise, that the Bible never really said anything bad about homosexuality.

Unfortunately I don't have the article any more, which is a terrible shame. However to paraphrase the entire thing he said that basically when the Bible was written, there was no concept of a "homosexual identity". In much the same way as the Bible doesn't address God's stance on automobiles (since they didn't exist), it doesn't really address homosexuality.

Sure, they knew that there were certain men who preferred the company of other men - even to the exclusion of women... but they did not see that as a specific group.

At any rate, my unfortunately vague post will probably be ripped to shreds and/or ignored. I only wish I could find that original document.

Vote Early conviently left out verse 11- "...But you were washed clean, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God." See VoteEarly, being gay is not a one-way ticket to Hell. All sins are equal in God's eyes. This is in the Bible, but I don't remember where. Does anyone with more biblical knowledge than me know where to find this?

You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?

Here goes...


Leviticus 18:22-23 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Kings 14:22-24 - And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.


Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Isaiah 3:9 - The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Luke 17:25-32 - But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 - Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

2 Peter 2:6-9 - And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; ) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7-8 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
So, lesbians are still in the clear?

So, lesbians are still in the clear?

Yup, sounds like it.

I think it's about time there were more open & public displays of lesbian love... particularly say in the swimming pool I can see from my office window.

Yup, sounds like it.

I think it's about time there were more open & public displays of lesbian love... particularly say in the swimming pool I can see from my office window.

There's a separate part saying that that is a sin as well, but once again, its no worse than any other sin.

There's a separate part saying that that is a sin as well, but once again, its no worse than any other sin.
Really? I read all of those.

I must've missed it. Do you mind pointing it out to me?

Somewhere in Romans, I believe, give me a sec.

Romans 1:26-27

Romans 1:26-27
That simply says that lesbianism is unnatural, but does not list it specifically as a sin.

What Moses did to the Red Sea was unnatural, but God didn't have a problem with that aspect of Moses.

True, but it implies it. Look at the second chapter. It has some really good stuff about NOT JUDGING OTHERS! Some would do well to learn this.

I'm not implying that you wer doing this, I was referring to other certain individuals.

What Moses did to the Red Sea was unnatural, but God didn't have a problem with that aspect of Moses.

Ah, but God parted the red sea



ok I will leave because I always get too involved in these things.

True, but it implies it. Look at the second chapter. It has some really good stuff about NOT JUDGING OTHERS! Some would do well to learn this.

I'm not implying that you wer doing this, I was referring to other certain individuals.
Implying and saying are two very different things. What that verse says to me is that God disapproves of lesbians in concept, which makes sense because it's a union that bares no young, but He doesn't think bad enough of it to make it a sin.

Also, Moses parted the Red Sea by proxy, calling upon God to help him. Whatever way you look at it, it wasn't natural.

So, lesbians are still in the clear?

I am not trying to get in this argument, but I did want to say that just because it says man, it doesn't mean only man. If you believe that is the case, then just because the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal", then it means only men, and not women.

I am not trying to get in this argument, but I did want to say that just because it says man, it doesn't mean only man. If you believe that is the case, then just because the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal", then it means only men, and not women.

That's kinda my thinking. Spirit of the Law, not the letter and all that. But I bear homosexuals no ill will. They've chosen a path I believe to be incorrect, but its not my place to judge.

I am not trying to get in this argument, but I did want to say that just because it says man, it doesn't mean only man. If you believe that is the case, then just because the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal", then it means only men, and not women.
Yes, but the bible is not the Declaration of Independance, and it lists "mankind" and "womankind" as two seperate entities.

If you read the quotes, you'd realize this.

Someone must be really worried about their sexuality to have those quotes so readily available... yet another example of someone picking and choosing which verses of the Bible to believe, if nothing else.

Anyhow, it was a great episode of the Simpsons. Marge reminded me of my mom :p

Yes, but the bible is not the Declaration of Independance, and it lists "mankind" and "womankind" as two seperate entities.

If you read the quotes, you'd realize this.

You know, it just seems like it would be a double standard, if lesbianism was not a sin. The Bible repeatedly says God is love, but secondly, God is just. Ergo, I don't think he would make rules like that, but that just my opinion.

Someone must be really worried about their sexuality to have those quotes so readily available... yet another example of someone picking and choosing which verses of the Bible to believe, if nothing else.

Anyhow, it was a great episode of the Simpsons. Marge reminded me of my mom :p

No, actually, I had to look all these up. I've just read the first half of Romans before, so I knew their general vicinity.

A terrific episode and I look foward to the day when it can be shown without a warning at the beginning.

What did it warn against?

It must have been a good episode; I could hear my roomates rofling in the next room.

1. The Cult of Jesus stole quite a lot of philosophy and mythology from Buddha and his followers (as well as Mithra)

2. The Bible is not real, and if it was, you'd have to take all the stonings, sexism, racism, and genocide seriously, along with the homophobia.

3. The greatest "sin" of all is selfishness, something which is inescapable for all humans. Not only is it not bad, but it's necessary for survival. Ergo, Christian "thought" (philosophical-butchery) is antithetical to self-preservation, and a leading cause of mental problems, not including the already evident self-delusions.

4. Stick to the topic (episode)... I didn't see it.

5. VoteEarly is not serious, but a troll. (At least I hope so)

Still waiting for that one here, but today they rescreened the one where the Simpsons befriend a gay kitsch collector and Homer is paranoid that Bart is gay.

I love how Homer's homophobia shows all that is ridiculous in attitudes like that.

1. The Cult of Jesus stole quite a lot of philosophy and mythology from Buddha and his followers (as well as Mithra)

2. The Bible is not real, and if it was, you'd have to take all the stonings, sexism, racism, and genocide seriously, along with the homophobia.

3. The greatest "sin" of all is selfishness, something which is inescapable for all humans. Not only is it not bad, but it's necessary for survival. Ergo, Christian "thought" (philosophical-butchery) is antithetical to self-preservation, and a leading cause of mental problems, not including the already evident self-delusions.

4. Stick to the topic (episode)... I didn't see it.

5. VoteEarly is not serious, but a troll. (At least I hope so)

Dude, most religions have the same philosophies. Have you not noticed this? It just goes to show that its not that hard for people to figure out what is right? They just have difficulty in the execution of said philosophies.

You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?

Here goes...


Leviticus 18:22-23 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Kings 14:22-24 - And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.


Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Isaiah 3:9 - The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Luke 17:25-32 - But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 - Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

2 Peter 2:6-9 - And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; ) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7-8 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Lol good job quoting Leveticus, quite possibly Satan's bible itself.

But to be honest with you though, most of us don't care about bible quotes. Z0mG! HE SPOKE A FEW LINES FROM SOME BOOK, THAT MUST MAKE IT TRUE!

Dude, most religions have the same philosophies. Have you not noticed this? It just goes to show that its not that hard for people to figure out what is right? They just have difficulty in the execution of said philosophies.

Hardly; Buddhism and Judaism are the most introspective of religions.
Christianity and Islam focus more on self discipline and dogma.
Hinduism... well... they have a caste system.

Further, morality is subjective, there is no "right" or "wrong".

Hardly; Buddhism and Judaism are the most introspective of religions.
Christianity and Islam focus more on self discipline and dogma.
Hinduism... well... they have a caste system.

Further, morality is subjective, there is no "right" or "wrong".

I was referring to moral philosophies, but in Christianity, you can sin and still go to heaven. We don't have to pray towards Jerusalem, in fact, most Christians I know pray by themselves. I don't feel like debating it though, so we can just agree to disagree this time, no?

You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?

It is my personal opinion that one must either obey everything in the biblebooks one refers to, or one cannot use it as an argument.
Do you agree with this statement ?
If so - do you obey everything Leviticus for instance says ?

You think we need to drown you out, that we can't cite the bible to make our case?

Here goes...

This shouldn't be too hard to debunk.


Leviticus 18:22-23 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus, as we all know, contains many arcane laws that almost no one follows today, including the banning of eating shellfish and being forbidden to shave ones beard. Also, these laws mainly focused on rules of worship, and since the number one competitor at the time, the pagans, often used sex in their rituals (homosexual as well), this law was put in the Bible. Next!


Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Kings 14:22-24 - And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.


Ah, Sodom. So often quoted as a condemnation to homosexuality. The only problem is that no where in the original text about Sodom (or the Bible at all) does the term homosexual appear. The sins of the people of Sodom were, as Jesus pointed out in Luke 10:10-12, inhospitality. Thus the above verses are irrelevant.


Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


The people to whom Paul refers here are heterosexuals who have decided to forsake God and avoid praising Him. In revenge, God has given up on them; therefore, they become "consumed with passion," that is to say, they act in a lustful way. Both men and women were overtaken by lust, and became preoccupied with obtaining sexual self-gratification with whomever they pleased. Verse 28 in particular makes it exceedingly clear that the sin here is failure to worship God, not any kind of homosexual activity: "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up ..." Homosexual sex (in that it is herein had by people who are heterosexual by nature) was God's punishment for the sin of failing to praise Him, and not the sin itself. In fact, it is clear that God made these people have homosexual sex!

This verse does not condemn homosexual sex or homosexuality at all. It merely says that God made heterosexual people engage in homosexual sex as a means of punishment; it says nothing about people who are homosexual by nature.


Isaiah 3:9 - The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Luke 17:25-32 - But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.


More Sodom. See above.


1 Timothy 1:9-10 - Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


No mention of homosexuals here either, only promiscuity. Next.


2 Peter 2:6-9 - And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; ) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7-8 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Sodom yet again. While sex is mentioned here, there is no reference to homosexual sex, only promiscuity.


1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

There are many many translations of the Bible, and this is the first time I've seen this verse in this form. The one I usually see is

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."

The "sexual perverts" here is often construed as "homosexual" though there is no grounds for this. A correct translation of the original text gives the word "pedophiles" though some translation genius decided sometime in the 50's that "homosexual" would fit better. Here we see yet another dilemma with the Bible: It has been translated so many times that it is nigh impossible to receive the original meaning from the text.

So many fundamentalists can quote the Bible, but often it's out of context and they fail to understand the meanings of it. Try reading the whole thing some day.

(Source: http://www.phatpage.org/outarguefundamentalist.html )

You know what sucks?
That when it does come to australia, the guys at channel 10 (the channel the shows it) will cut like 10 minutes out of it, like they always do.
Like that one where homer thinks bart is gay was on today, AND THEY CUT OUT THE WHOLE STEEL MILL PART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plus they put in adds in the middle of scenes, and cut adds in like 5 seconds before they're ment to be, which usually cuts out the punchline of a joke.
I hate channel 10. i hate it good.

By the way, while im ranting about TV, anyone else sick of all the reality TV shows?

Like that one where homer thinks bart is gay was on today, AND THEY CUT OUT THE WHOLE STEEL MILL PART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Um... I watched that and that scene was definitely in.

But I DO hate when they cut to ads early...

not where i watched it, regional big wigs must be steel mill fans or something.
or i guess they figured itd offend the guys that work at our steel mill maybe?

You know, it just seems like it would be a double standard, if lesbianism was not a sin. The Bible repeatedly says God is love, but secondly, God is just. Ergo, I don't think he would make rules like that, but that just my opinion.
Maybe because women got the short end of the stick in everything else biblical, they're allowed to be lesbians. That seems just to me.

Maybe because women got the short end of the stick in everything else biblical, they're allowed to be lesbians. That seems just to me.
In that case, thankee kindly, God!
:p

Who married who?

Hardly; Buddhism and Judaism are the most introspective of religions.
Christianity and Islam focus more on self discipline and dogma.
Hinduism... well... they have a caste system.

Further, morality is subjective, there is no "right" or "wrong".

Didn't India gain it's caste ssytem after they were colonized by the whiteys?

I thought I heard that somewhere but do not know.

About the episode - it was so funny when Homer said something to the effect of "I'm $200 short of $14,800. I wonder what LEnny and Carl are up to." Talkinf about how he made all that money doing those marriages and then suggesting it's time for Lenny and Carl to figure out that they are gay and need to get married. Then marge tells him to let them figure it out on their own.

I am not trying to get in this argument, but I did want to say that just because it says man, it doesn't mean only man. If you believe that is the case, then just because the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal", then it means only men, and not women.

To paraphrase a Women's sufferage sign "The right to vote is denied to three groups of people children, the mentally ill, and women."

The Declaration of Independance was a clever bit of wordsmithery meant to justify an act of treason. Clearly, if the writers had thought about it they would have stated that all men are created equal and all women are created equal but all women are inferior to all men.

Didn't India gain it's caste ssytem after they were colonized by the whiteys?

I thought I heard that somewhere but do not know.

About the episode - it was so funny when Homer said something to the effect of "I'm $200 short of $14,800. I wonder what LEnny and Carl are up to." Talkinf about how he made all that money doing those marriages and then suggesting it's time for Lenny and Carl to figure out that they are gay and need to get married. Then marge tells him to let them figure it out on their own.

The caste system is one of the foundations of the Hindu religion. It is also why Buddha made such an uproar when he gave up his throne see spiritual enlightenment. The British had nothing to do with it.

The caste system is one of the foundations of the Hindu religion. It is also why Buddha made such an uproar when he gave up his throne see spiritual enlightenment. The British had nothing to do with it.


well after I asked the question I did a little research and found out there there are in fact different theories about the caste systems origins. Nothing absolute. Are you 100% positive of what you know about the caste system in India?

Here is the one I guess I had heard before:

The social historical theory explains the creation of the Varnas, Jats and of the untouchables. According to this theory, the caste system began with the arrival of the Aryans in India. The Aryans arrived in India around 1500 BC. The fair skinned Aryans arrived in India from south Europe and north Asia. Before the Aryans there were other communities in India of other origins. Among them Negrito, Mongoloid, Austroloid and Dravidian. The Negrito have physical features similar to people of Africa. The Mongoloid have Chinese features. The Austroloids have features similar the aboriginals of Australia. The Dravidians originate from the Mediterranean and they were the largest community in India. When the Aryans arrived in India their main contact was with the Dravidians and the Austroloids. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India.

The Aryans organized among themselves in three groups. The first group was of the warriors and they were called Rajayana, later they changed their name Rajayana to Kshatria. The second group was of the priests and they were called Brahmans. These two groups struggled politically for leadership among the Aryans. In this struggle the Brahmans got to be the leaders of the Aryan society. The third group was of the farmers and craftsmen and they were called Vaisia. The Aryans who conquered and took control over parts of north India subdued the locals and made them their servants. In this process the Vaisias who were the farmers and the craftsmen became the landlords and the businessmen of the society and the locals became the peasants and the craftsmen of the society.

In order to secure their status the Aryans resolved some social and religious rules which, allowed only them to be the priests, warriors and the businesmen of the society. For example take Maharashtra. Maharashtra is in west India. This region is known by this name for hundreds of years. Many think that the meaning of the name Maharashtra is in its name, Great Land. But there are some who claim that the name, Maharashtra, is derived from the Jat called Mahar who are considered to be the original people of this region. In the caste hierarchy the dark skinned Mahars were outcasts. The skin color was an important factor in the caste system. The meaning of the word "Varna" is not class or status but skin color.

Between the outcasts and the three Aryan Varnas there is the Sudra Varna who are the simple workers of the society. The Sudras consisted of two communities. One community was of the locals who were subdued by the Aryans and the other were the descendants of Aryans with locals. In Hindu religious stories there are many wars between the good Aryans and the dark skinned demons and devils. The different Gods also have dark skinned slaves. There are stories of demon women trying to seduce good Aryan men in deceptive ways. There were also marriages between Aryan heroes and demon women. Many believe that these incidences really occurred in which, the gods and the positive heroes were people of Aryan origin. And the demons, the devils and the dark skinned slaves were in fact the original residence of India whom the Aryans coined as monsters, devil, demons and slaves.

As in most of the societies of the world, so in India, the son inherited his father's profession. And so in India there developed families, who professed the same family profession for generation in which, the son continued his father's profession. Later on as these families became larger, they were seen as communities or as they are called in Indian languages, Jat. Different families who professed the same profession developed social relations between them and organized as a common community, meaning Jat.

Later on the Aryans who created the caste system, added to their system non-Aryans. Different Jats who professed different professions were integrated in different Varnas according to their profession. Other foreign invaders of ancient India - Greeks, Huns, Scythains and others - who conquered parts of India and created kingdoms were integrated in the Kshatria Varna (warrior castes). But probably the Aryan policy was not to integrate original Indian communities within them and therefore many aristocratic and warrior communities that were in India before the Aryans did not get the Kshatria status.


And I think the Simpsons had a great point about how allowing gay marriage can be a money making industry just like hetero marriage.