NationStates Jolt Archive

Due to my own fascination with the subject, as well as that of others, this thread is started to discuss a "What if" of history. If this discussion proves popular, I'll bring in other what ifs, but the question today is:

What if the US lost the War of 1812?

If you have a theory, I would like to hear it.

There's been A LOT of "what if's" in the past. Some have been good, most just brought in complaints of why bother. Kinda like how we're dealing with atheism and Christianity right now.

But if the U.S. lost the War of 1812, then Britain would've had one hell of a fun time trying to restore their British rule on the country all over again. And it won't be as easy as claiming the land as they did when they founded the colonies.

Basically, it'd be like the U.S. taking over Iraq. Isn't easy is it?

What was the War of 1812?

I might know it under a diifferent name.

What if the US lost the War of 1812?

Do you mean instead of a "tie"?

Nothing. Technically the US lost it. Britain wasn't interested in engaging in a long futile war to reestablish dominion, the US had asserted its independence a long time ago, the war of 1812 simply delimited the role each power would play in the continent. The US goal of driving the British out was unfulfilled.

A more interesting question would be what if the US had won the war of 1812? Would there have been a war with Mexico? Would Russia have sold Alaska? Would the UK had given up on the possession of the Sandwich Islands so easily?

What if the Confederacy had won the Civil War?

What if the Confederacy had won the Civil War?
What if time-travelling Confederates had ganged-up against the US in the War of 1812?

When I say lost, I mean a total defeat. Navy in shambles, army demoralized, possibly with the government forced to concede part of the United States to the victorious British. As for the war itself, it was, as the name suggests, fought starting in 1812. The other areas I am interested in concerning the war are what would have happened had both Fort McHenry been taken and General Jackson's mostly volunteer army been crushed at New Orleans.

What if time-travelling Confederates had ganged-up against the US in the War of 1812?
What if those dirty Communists went back in time and won the civil war?

Please, do not go wildly off topic right now. I assume that Roach-Busters is being sarcastic, as the topics "what if the South won the Civil War" and "what if Hitler won WWII" have already been debated ad naseum.

What if George W. Bush was President of the USA during the Cold War?

Every historian worth their weight has claimed the War of 1812 a draw. It showed that the newly founded US could hold out against a power like Britian. Of course the US didn't achieve its goals either. While the US failed to claim any more land, Britian failed to capture any land known as US territory. The US navy proved it could out perform the same sized British vessels and led to a more prominent Naval protocol in the later years.

To claim that either side one this war is an poor attempt to rewrite history.

Ah Americans and the War of 1812.

For you I can see it is quite a big piece of history.

For us British however it was little more than a sideshow while we with the Russians liberated the continent of Europe from the grasp of a power mad dictator.

Pardon me if I am not knowledgeable in this little skirmish you call a war but the battles of Europe where truly great men smashed it out in some of the most vicious and exciting battles ever seen draw my attention.

Please, do not go wildly off topic right now..
Oh, sorry about that.

When I say lost, I mean a total defeat. Navy in shambles, army demoralized, possibly with the government forced to concede part of the United States to the victorious British. As for the war itself, it was, as the name suggests, fought starting in 1812. The other areas I am interested in concerning the war are what would have happened had both Fort McHenry been taken and General Jackson's mostly volunteer army been crushed at New Orleans.
Oh, in that case, and assuming that Britain took the northeast leaving the US without a heavy industry and basically converting it into a farming colony to feed its troops all over the world, then we would have an impoverished US during the 19th C. and possibly a more powerful British army kicking ass all over the world.

I never claimed that the US won the war of 1812. It was pretty much a draw. My question is about what the world today would be like if the US had clearly lost, rather than holding their own.