NationStates Jolt Archive

Just curious how people in European Union states view this political and economic union. Is it a bad idea or a good one. What have you personally gained from it. What have you lost to it?

I have nothing against the EU itself, but I have my concerns about any group of nations giving up a portion of their sovereignty to be part of some greater political body

Just curious how people in European Union states view this political and economic union. Is it a bad idea or a good one. What have you personally gained from it. What have you lost to it?

We are not in the EU nor do we want to be but we have an EEA agreement with them.
You loose so much if you are in the EU for eg. you loose your fishingzone's.

We are not in the EU nor do we want to be but we have an EEA agreement with them.
You loose so much if you are in the EU for eg. you loose your fishingzone's.

You could always negotiate that one specific detail. I think every country that entered afrter the start negotiated some exception or other.

I think the EU is a great idea, and it is doing much better than I had expected in the 1980s. I still argue, for my own crazy reasons, that Brazil should join. Stop excluding potential valuable partners on the basis that they are in the wrong continent. This is purely a geographical accident.

Personally, I think the economic union is wonderful. I hope they can continue this. As for the political union, I think states do not want to give up more sovereignty now, but in the future, the trend might be more toward doing so. In which case, the people might be more desensitised to it, and thus more accepting.

I think the EU should have attempted to make itself more economicaly prosperous as a unit before it jumped to 25 countries. Also the idea of brining in 10 countries at once was very bad.

You could always negotiate that one specific detail. I think every country that entered afrter the start negotiated some exception or other.

You must first apply to join and then negotiate. Stupid really.

I think the EU should have attempted to make itself more economicaly prosperous as a unit before it jumped to 25 countries. Also the idea of brining in 10 countries at once was very bad.
Yeah. I agree. And it won't get any better when they bring in even more countries in 2007.

You could always negotiate that one specific detail. I think every country that entered afrter the start negotiated some exception or other.

I think the EU is a great idea, and it is doing much better than I had expected in the 1980s. I still argue, for my own crazy reasons, that Brazil should join. Stop excluding potential valuable partners on the basis that they are in the wrong continent. This is purely a geographical accident.
Puh. You have your own version of the EU in South America.

Puh. You have your own version of the EU in South America.

Yes we do, and why should they be separate. We have here a lot of what Europe needs. Raw materials, cheap labour, space etc. Europe has a lot of what we need. Technological know-how, financial expertise, capital for investment.

Surely, a partnership between the EU and Mercosur (Mercosul) would benefit both blocks.

I had not realised that membership of another mutual support group at the national level would preclude membership of the EU. If this is the case then the UK should have to decide between the EU and the Commonwealth, for example.

I like the idea of the economic union but not the political union. However the leaders are too pro-corporate.

IMHO the EU is the best thing since sliced bread.

IMHO the EU is the best thing since sliced bread.

That is slander against the greatness of sliced bread.

It hails the coming of the Anti-Christ!!!

...

Yeah... anyway. It seems great to me. Europe used to be simply a series of wars and revolutions - and now they've advanced to the point where they might all unify peacefully under the same flag, and in the far-flung future, perhaps become one [mighty] nation. Seems like a win-win situation.

European Union is a good thing. It improves the economy, it has the potential of Europe strong again (not a good thing for everybody ;) ), ready to spred freedom and democracy without using non-democratic ways (hehe :D ), basicaly things are going more fluent now.
And because of the EU we can no longer buy lollies with makes you tongue color, that's a good thing, because it was poisonous.

That is slander against the greatness of sliced bread.
No its not "since sliced bread" meaning sliced bread is better. :D

The economic situation now is great, in my eyes: we beat the dollar (not so great for our economies, I know), I really like the Euro and borders between EU countries are as good as lifted, which benefit transport possibilities. Our agrarian industry here in Belgium will probably have to take some blows from cheaper products in Eastern Europe but I see this as a process not necessarily as a bad thing.

However political is a different thing: the EU is about being united so Europe can compete with the US, China, Russia and upcoming nations. Yet the great countries in the EU like France, Germany and the GB don't see eye-to-eye on certain issues, which makes the EU on political level hollow. Look at the GB having a complete different point of view on the entire Iraq buisness then the rest of Europe. In my eyes we first have to make a European foreign policy before we call ourselves a political union. It restarts with the debate about the entire European constitution, some countries like it, others don't. This won't do: we have to be united internly first.

Yes we do, and why should they be separate. We have here a lot of what Europe needs. Raw materials, cheap labour, space etc. Europe has a lot of what we need. Technological know-how, financial expertise, capital for investment.

Surely, a partnership between the EU and Mercosur (Mercosul) would benefit both blocks.
Theres nothing to say against a partnership. Just against a full membership like Spain or Germany, France or any other European country.

The EU is a great thing, America is petrified of it though.

.

. Look at the GB having a complete different point of view on the entire Iraq buisness then the rest of Europe. .

Actually we don't agree with the war in Iraq. I have yet to meet anyone who is for the Iraqi war and most people don't like the close ties with Bush that it gives us. We, unfortunately, have a political system where it's possible to get 48% of the vote but no representation at all. It means we're stuck with the best govt. we can get not necessarily the best avaialable.


In my eyes we first have to make a European foreign policy before we call ourselves a political union. It restarts with the debate about the entire European constitution, some countries like it, others don't. This won't do: we have to be united internly first.

I agree but a lot of my friends feel it's a sneaky way for Europe to get power over us. Foolish but it's that Island race thing. We tend to think them and us rather than just one big us. Perhaps we'll grow up when the euro is shown to be a major success.

I think it is great, and I think a lot of people in it seems to think so, this was shown today by Spain saying "yes" to the EU charter.
It makes it easier to travel and seems to strenghten through trade etc the countries involved.
I think it is good that the new countries joined. I wasn't that sure about it untill I went to Prague about a mounth before the Czech Republic joined, it really changed my oppinion. I stayed with my friend and it was amazing how enthusiastic everyone I spoke to was, they were so proud etc that it made the new countries joining so worth while.

Theres nothing to say against a partnership. Just against a full membership like Spain or Germany, France or any other European country.

Just curious as to what reason there is for Brazil not being allowed to become a member of the EU. It has an economy that meets the requirements, it is essentially western european in culture. It is a representative democracy with separation between the three branches of government, it is a secular state.
It meets all of the requirements except being physically part of Europe.

If Turkey is admitted, then there will be a precedent for a non European country being a member of the European Union. Would this thenm provide Brazil, or New Zealand say, with a valid case for membership.

Just curious as to what reason there is for Brazil not being allowed to become a member of the EU. It has an economy that meets the requirements, it is essentially western european in culture. It is a representative democracy with separation between the three branches of government, it is a secular state.
It meets all of the requirements except being physically part of Europe.

If Turkey is admitted, then there will be a precedent for a non European country being a member of the European Union. Would this thenm provide Brazil, or New Zealand say, with a valid case for membership.
I'm not in favour of Turkey either. I'm strongly opposed to their admittance.

The EU is a great thing, America is petrified of it though.
Petrified? No. My dad's pissed off that the pipe cutting machines he reps for Georg Fisher are getting even more expensive however.

I'm not in favour of Turkey either. I'm strongly opposed to their admittance.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/News/Trifkovic04/NewsST102804.html

Petrified? No. My dad's pissed off that the pipe cutting machines he reps for Georg Fisher are getting even more expensive however.

Nope, Americans despise Europe because of a hidden fear of Europe. Honestly, most Americans actually believe Europe is Communist or something like that, they are such ignorant people.

think it's a great thing. got its share of problems, but is intrinsically beneficial to all member states. would explain more (will do tomorrow) but no time now...

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/News/Trifkovic04/NewsST102804.html
On the same day Germany's foreign minister Joschka Fischer went a step further and declared that Turkish entry to the EU would be as important for Europe as the D-Day invasion 60 years ago - a key way to liberate Europe from the threat of insecurity from the Middle East and "terrorist ideas."
I realy hate Joschka Fischer. Thanks to him somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million Ukrainians, and most likely other nationalities too, got a "tourist" visa for Germany. Only problem is that now nobody knows what became of those tourists. Also the Ukrainian mob is known to have used Fischers loop whole for their trade in women. :mad: Where is a lethal heart attack when you need it?

Nope, Americans despise Europe because of a hidden fear of Europe. Honestly, most Americans actually believe Europe is Communist or something like that, they are such ignorant people.

and what information is that based on?

we do not think that europe is communist, and saying america is ignorant is a biast statement, like saying french are pussies and germans are nazis

On the same day Germany's foreign minister Joschka Fischer went a step further and declared that Turkish entry to the EU would be as important for Europe as the D-Day invasion 60 years ago - a key way to liberate Europe from the threat of insecurity from the Middle East and "terrorist ideas."
I realy hate Joschka Fischer. Thanks to him somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million Ukrainians, and most likely other nationalities too, got a "tourist" visa for Germany. Only problem is that now nobody knows what became of those tourists. Also the Ukrainian mob is known to have used Fischers loop whole for their trade in women. :mad: Where is a lethal heart attack when you need it?

Hehehehe, The Turks are trying to the get Germany to remove mentions of the Armenian Genocide from their school textbooks:

Turkey Wins Removal Of Armenian Genocide From German Schools

(dpa) - Pressure from Turkey has resulted in the removal of a reference to the Armenian genocide from a German school curriculum, reports said Wednesday.

The eastern German state of Brandenburg has eliminated half a sentence on the Armenians included in ninth and tenth grade history classes after a Turkish diplomat complained to state Prime Minister Matthias Platzeck, the newspaper Die Welt reported.

In a chapter entitled "War, Technology and Civilian Populations" the school book text said "for example, the genocide of the Armenians population of Anatolia." That passage has now been removed from school textbooks, the newspaper said.

Platzeck met regularly with Turkish diplomats and was "steeled" against their influence, the newspaper quoted him as saying. The prime minister added that genocide was too important an issue to be dealt with in just half a sentence. "Brandenburg's curriculum was the only one in Germany which up until now included a reference to the murder of the Armenians," said Die Welt.

Most historians say that between 600,000 and 1.5 million Armenians were killed in 1915 and 1916 under the Ottoman Turks during World War I. The Turkish government, which denies that a genocide took place, speaks of 200,000 dead.

A Turkish embassy spokesman in Berlin declined to comment directly on the report, but noted the initiative had come from the Turkish consulate responsible for Berlin and Brandenburg - not from the embassy itself.

Prime Minister Platzeck is a member of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats (SPD). Schroeder is a strong supporter of Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union. Germany has almost two million resident Turks - the biggest Turkish minority in the EU.

The Christian Democratic Union (CDU), which serves as junior coalition partner in Brandenburg's government, is infuriated over the change to the state's schoolbooks. "The impression created is fatal," said Sven Patke, the state CDU secretary general.

The head of the Central Committee of Armenians in Germany, Schavarsh Ovassapian told Die Welt the move was "a scandal." "It is depressing, if what's in schoolbooks in Brandenburg can be dictated from Ankara," he said.

Just because Washington want them in as a trojan horse we have to accept!

Exactly.
Not to mention that the majority of asylum seekers in Germany still come from Turkey.

OOps. I did not mean to stir up a whole hornets nest of argument about Turkey. :eek:
I was just wondering whether, IF Turkey is admitted, regardless of whether this is justified or not, this would set a precedent for other geographically non european countries to apply for admission.

OOps. I did not mean to stir up a whole hornets nest of argument about Turkey. :eek:
I was just wondering whether, IF Turkey is admitted, regardless of whether this is justified or not, this would set a precedent for other geographically non european countries to apply for admission.
And that alone is more then enough reason to say no to Turkey.

OOps. I did not mean to stir up a whole hornets nest of argument about Turkey. :eek:
I was just wondering whether, IF Turkey is admitted, regardless of whether this is justified or not, this would set a precedent for other geographically non european countries to apply for admission.

Well, yes many believe it would set the precedent that Israel would be next. That REALLY isn't good. We don't want ANOTHER war criminal nation and puppet of America besides Britain and Turkey in The EU.

Well, yes many believe it would set the precedent that Israel would be next. That REALLY isn't good. We don't want ANOTHER war criminal nation and puppet of America besides Britain and Turkey in The EU.
We don't want Turkey.

We don't want Turkey.

I agree. Keep it as it is, propose further E. European expansion in a decade and then leave it.

Well, yes many believe it would set the precedent that Israel would be next. That REALLY isn't good. We don't want ANOTHER war criminal nation and puppet of America besides Britain and Turkey in The EU.
Somehow I seriously doubt Israel would at all want to become part of the EU.

All this stuff about non European nations aside, I believe that the EU is a good model for how to handle regional politics. Yes, there is a whole load of bickering between the member nations, Yes there is disagreement about a unified defence policy etc. But there has been no international war in Europe for 60 years. (The Balkans I count as an ethnic/internal war, resulting from the collapse of Yugoslavia. If you don't then this is the exception) This may be the longest period without war that Europe has ever had. (I am not a historian, I have no doubt that if it is not, someone will correct me.)
The sovereignty issues seem to be a hang over from the days of empire and jingoism, and irrelevant to a multinational and multicultural world.

*ducks as the flames blast around him*

I now live outside of the EU, but I am a British citizen and I even voted in the referenda concerning membership. The one doubt I have is obver the centralised monetary control, as the economies are not synchronised enough for this to be very effective. Growth here, while recession there, Inflationary pressure in one country and the need to stimulate the economy in another create difficulties in deciding a unified fiscal policy. This will be overcome with time as the European economy becomes a reality.

Nope, Americans despise Europe because of a hidden fear of Europe. Honestly, most Americans actually believe Europe is Communist or something like that, they are such ignorant people.

Well gee! If that was not intentional irony, then I can see that you will suffer brash disillusionment at some point in the future.

I have my own reasons to despise Europe but that has to do with my experiences IN Europe. Most Americans either do not care or do not bother when it comes to the EU. And "Generation-E" is hardly representative of you guys either.

Socialized liberal democracies can disagree on things and I must say that an American that believes that Europe is any more "communist" than America does have some limited views on what the term means. But you presume too much about a nation which has historically been difficult to understand without extended stays within it.

Europe and America have drifted apart culturally and ideologically, that much is true. America has become far more cosmopolitian after the events of the late cold war, and simultaneously experienced less immigration from Europe and more from Asia. This does not mean that there should be fear or animosity, with the one exception being the strong economic ties that remain intact. People naturally bicker about the flow of wealth, especially when Europe has been belligerent in regards to preserving trade agreements such as weapon sanctions against China.

"Most Americans" realize this and I am sure "most Europeans" do too. Apathy leads to ignorance sometimes but finding ignorance to make generalizations over ignorance is ignorant in itself. Remember, the internet is filled with idiots spreading misinformation and propaganda. Americans preaching about Communist Europe are no exception, and you certainly struck me as akin to them.

/end Rant.

OOps. I did not mean to stir up a whole hornets nest of argument about Turkey. :eek:
I was just wondering whether, IF Turkey is admitted, regardless of whether this is justified or not, this would set a precedent for other geographically non european countries to apply for admission.

To be fair, a little bit of Turkey is actually in Europe.