NationStates Jolt Archive

ok after that New Found Glory idiot was rambling on about religious beliefs and all that, i noticed a random statement that the sun cannot thing or possess beliefs of any kind or somesuch, and i want to question how anyone can know (or indeed prove) that the sun doesnt believe in God. No one really knows if it is inanimate, and cannot posess feelings

The Sun is My Enemy.

Ok, but now you need some theory that will hold up that explains how a lump of hydogen and helium can have consciousness, and thus hold belief. I really don't think it's very likely unless most of what we know about biology is wrong.

ok after that New Found Glory idiot was rambling on about religious beliefs and all that, i noticed a random statement that the sun cannot thing or possess beliefs of any kind or somesuch, and i want to question how anyone can know (or indeed prove) that the sun doesnt believe in God. No one really knows if it is inanimate, and cannot posess feelings

Like being an unwashed communist ? (trying to find the reason for your title here) .
EDIT: ah, never mind - you changed it :)

Ok, but now you need some theory that will hold up that explains how a lump of hydogen and helium can have consciousness, and thus hold belief. I really don't think it's very likely unless most of what we know about biology is wrong.

Theoretically life does not have to be carbon based... though hydrogen and helium are indeed not the best compounds. Nevertheless, they can carry an electric current.

If the SUN has a conscience then we can blame her on global warming. Yes it would be a her if it was alive.

Ok, but now you need some theory that will hold up that explains how a lump of hydogen and helium can have consciousness, and thus hold belief. I really don't think it's very likely unless most of what we know about biology is wrong.
what he said.

Theoretically life does not have to be carbon based... though hydrogen and helium are indeed not the best compounds. Nevertheless, they can carry an electric current.

I thought it had to be either carbon or silicon based, or is that wrong?

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where hydrogen is built into helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot, the sun is not
A place where we could live
But here on Earth there'd be no life
Without the light it gives

We need its light
We need its heat
The sunlight that we see
The sunlight comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where hydrogen is built into helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot

It is so hot that everything on it is a gas: iron, copper, aluminum, and many others.

The sun is large

If the sun were hollow, a million Earths could fit inside. And yet, the sun is only a middle-sized star.

The sun is far away

About ninty-three million miles away, and that's why it looks so small

But even when it's out of sight
The sun shines night and day

We need its light
We need its heat
The sunlight that we see
The sunlight comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where hydrogen is built into helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

I think that just aboot clears things up.

Ok, but now you need some theory that will hold up that explains how a lump of hydogen and helium can have consciousness, and thus hold belief. I really don't think it's very likely unless most of what we know about biology is wrong.

Well, if some people consider the Bible a source of "theory," then presumably some random historical ancient egyptian text about a Sun God's mythos should also qualify. :)

I thought it had to be either carbon or silicon based, or is that wrong?
For "life as we know it" you are right - basicly because carbon and silicon have similar electronic structures. Carbon is more abundant and more inclined to make complex chains though.

But as long as you find a way to control electric currents.. you can in theory have conciousness. Or at least something resembling an extremely basic computer. Toying with gravity may do the trick... but I doubt this takes place in our sun though. In fact, I doubt this is even possible without intelligent design. ( Which implies that *if*the sun is sentient, it probably believes ;))

I thought it had to be either carbon or silicon based, or is that wrong?
IIRC, carbon or silicon are needed to allow complexity.

Carbon can combine in many different ways and form chains, and so form the myriad organic compounds needed for life, when combined with oxygen and/or hydrogen. The latter comes from water (natch), so the temperature range at which carbon can do all this is probably important, as it covers the three main states of water. Water itself has some important properties for life as well, to do with its triple point and its molecule chaining.

In principle, silicon/ammonia could take the place of carbon/water in allowing such a degree of complexity. But at much lower temperatures.

Isaac Asimov wrote an essay about all this in the sixties.

space and time is my favorite

The Sun is My Enemy.

Mine are windmills.
They must al die!!!

If the SUN has a conscience then we can blame her on global warming. Yes it would be a her if it was alive.
100% agreement over here! Well, her and those pollution guys.

For "life as we know it" you are right - basicly because carbon and silicon have similar electronic structures. Carbon is more abundant and more inclined to make complex chains though.

But as long as you find a way to control electric currents.. you can in theory have conciousness. Or at least something resembling an extremely basic computer. Toying with gravity may do the trick... but I doubt this takes place in our sun though. In fact, I doubt this is even possible without intelligent design. ( Which implies that *if*the sun is sentient, it probably believes ;))

IIRC, carbon or silicon are needed to allow complexity.

Carbon can combine in many different ways and form chains, and so form the myriad organic compounds needed for life, when combined with oxygen and/or hydrogen. The latter comes from water (natch), so the temperature range at which carbon can do all this is probably important, as it covers the three main states of water. Water itself has some important properties for life as well, to do with its triple point and its molecule chaining.

In principle, silicon/ammonia could take the place of carbon/water in allowing such a degree of complexity. But at much lower temperatures.

Isaac Asimov wrote an essay about all this in the sixties.

Thank you for enlightening me you two.

???

The Sun just...isn't conscious. The sun is just a system of elements, nothing weird...STARS aren't conscious. Plasma and gas aren't conscious. Stars gain and lose energy over time, affecting the amount of heat they give off. They don't do it PURPOSELY, it's simply...standard.

Just found this off of Google: http://www.seasky.org/cosmic/sky7a01.html

ok after that New Found Glory idiot was rambling on about religious beliefs and all that, i noticed a random statement that the sun cannot thing or possess beliefs of any kind or somesuch, and i want to question how anyone can know (or indeed prove) that the sun doesnt believe in God. No one really knows if it is inanimate, and cannot posess feelings

I think you are referring to me. You must have been very sleepy when you wrote this because it makes no sense to me. And where you got the New Found Glory stuff I never know. I am a member of the Baha'i Faith. Google it you might be surprised.

The sun is a burning ball of gas. It's not alive.