NationStates Jolt Archive

damn communists (http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/02/0dd20aa9-d5be-4b47-944d-c99c3ae5034f.html)

I think we should stop importing things from China, they're taking our jobs, driving up the prices of goods, and spreading communism (http://www.stoptheftaa.org/artman/publish/article_155.shtml)

so? nothings bad about that, communisms a good thing :)

HAVE I TRAVELLED BACK IN TIME?!?!?!!

*checks newspaper*

oh wait, February 20, 2005. *whew*

wow, the consumption of a nation of over 1 billion is bigger then one of 300 million. [/Sacrasm]

wow, the consumtion of a nation of over 1 billion is bigger then one of 300 million. [/Sacrasm]

But at the rate its growing, it will overtake the totally overtake US in a few years on a per capita bases. Car sales have doubled in the last 2 years, and cell phone sales have gone up six-fold in the last 11.

You can hardly call China communist anymore. Perhaps at one point they were, but they've really left the communist idea for a totalitarian capitalism type system.

so? nothings bad about that, communisms a good thing :)

Treating everyone the same, regardless of actual skills and intelligence is a good thing?

You can hardly call China communist anymore. Perhaps at one point they were, but they've really left the communist idea for a totalitarian capitalism type system.

They still have the same leadership as before, personally, I think they are pretending to be capitalist, so they can have a wal mart type strategy, of driving the US' industries out of business, then have a stranglehold on the US economy, and return to a communist system as the sole industrial power of the world. Read that 2nd link about them spreading their influence.

But at the rate its growing, it will overtake the totally overtake US in a few years on a per capita bases. Car sales have doubled in the last 2 years, and cell phone sales have gone up six-fold in the last 11.
So what?

So what?

We should be aiming to make America the sole economic superpower, and do it by being a nation with a trade surplus.

So what?

Come on, you of all people should know! The damn commies can't have cell phones and cars and internet! They should die, die I tell you! Die! :rolleyes:

We should be aiming to make America the sole economic superpower,
No we should not.
and do it by being a nation with a trade surplus.
I like the current trade deficit.

Treating everyone the same, regardless of actual skills and intelligence is a good thing?

From each according to his ability, to each according his need.

Come on, you of all people should know! The damn commies can't have cell phones and cars and internet! They should die, die I tell you! Die! :rolleyes:
Oh yeah. I forgot. Your right of course, KILL THE COMMIES!!! THEY STOLE MY CELL PHONES!!!! All 50 million of them!!! :D

Von Witzleben, please stop spamming.

From each according to his ability, to each according his need.


The capitalist system does pretty much the same thing, but makes people do work to get money. In communism only about 10% of the population works to their greatest ability, because everything is guaranteed.

Look this is what is happening. (Of course my experience with China is this. I travel there to buy goods for my import business. Also speak to many a Chinese people to find more goods.)
China was bound to surpass the US in consumer goods consuption. If you start off an economy with no one having any type of consumer goods. You will get an overly inflated growth rate. It will even out when there homes fill with crap like most in the west are. They wont be buying as much anymore cause 1) They have what they want 2) They cant afford it.
Also another thing high demand is doing is driving prices way up in China. Thus creating a higher price for there "Cheap" imports. I am going to start looking elsewhere soon for cheap goods to import. This will stifle there global economic growth and trade. You may see a huge growth of wealthy and poor in China soon. What I have seen in the past with countries experiencing this is civil war or severe turmoil in the political system. So for the people thinking China is coming of age. They have a mighty huge speed bump to get over first. There inexperience and somewhat one minded thought is going to cause them to stumble. My guess is that they are going to hit an economic impasse and probably do something stupid. Most likey invade Taiwan to draw the attention away from its economic ills. Thus possibly start a very large war.
This is a possible but scary scenerio for the Chinese dragon.

Ya i agree, yet the teh commies should still alll be killed either with american :mp5: or :sniper: or :gundge: the way they treat Taiwan in the international role, come one, buying off allies???? blockading them in any international organization, and having about 760 short ranged ballistics pointed at the small island.. wtf is wrong with them, they deserve to die and nuked or anything. CHINA SUX GO INDEPENDENCE for TAIWAN

Look this is what is happening. (Of course my experience with China is this. I travel there to buy goods for my import business. Also speak to many a Chinese people to find more goods.)
China was bound to surpass the US in consumer goods consuption. If you start off an economy with no one having any type of consumer goods. You will get an overly inflated growth rate. It will even out when there homes fill with crap like most in the west are. They wont be buying as much anymore cause 1) They have what they want 2) They cant afford it.
Also another thing high demand is doing is driving prices way up in China. Thus creating a higher price for there "Cheap" imports. I am going to start looking elsewhere soon for cheap goods to import. This will stifle there global economic growth and trade. You may see a huge growth of wealthy and poor in China soon. What I have seen in the past with countries experiencing this is civil war or severe turmoil in the political system. So for the people thinking China is coming of age. They have a mighty huge speed bump to get over first. There inexperience and somewhat one minded thought is going to cause them to stumble. My guess is that they are going to hit an economic impasse and probably do something stupid. Most likey invade Taiwan to draw the attention away from its economic ills. Thus possibly start a very large war.
This is a possible but scary scenerio for the Chinese dragon.

If China attacks Taiwan, I hope it will lead to people realizing what goes on inside china, there is no freedom of speech, forced abortions, etc.

Very interesting point of view though, if you don't mind me asking, what is your job? Are you an economist?

http://www.stoptheftaa.org/av/vaed.html

good video I'm watching it right now.

If China attacks Taiwan, I hope it will lead to people realizing what goes on inside china, there is no freedom of speech, forced abortions, etc.

Very interesting point of view though, if you don't mind me asking, what is your job? Are you an economist?


I travel to China frequently for my import business. I buy goods there to sell to wholesalers here in the US. I deal alot with Chinese business people. I can say that they are very smart in alot of ways that I admire. But the fact of the matter with a state run media in China. They really dont have a real clue as to the true nature of world affairs. Its really one sided and very funny at times. Although this type of thought is extremely dangerous. Without the the benefit seeing things in reality causes one to make huge mistakes. Its definately in interesting country. I believe they are heading for an institutional melt down. Just not sure when

The capitalist system does pretty much the same thing, but makes people do work to get money. In communism only about 10% of the population works to their greatest ability, because everything is guaranteed.
You don't get communism do you?

(And looking at you Political Compass results your not top far away from them :p)

How does one get a political compass score?!

How does one get a political compass score?!
From this website:
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/

First off, China's economic system is just as capitalist as the US's. They maintain the image of communism to make it look like it is a state of the people, it appeals to the massive lower-working class, and gives them a big political chip.

Look this is what is happening. (Of course my experience with China is this. I travel there to buy goods for my import business. Also speak to many a Chinese people to find more goods.)
China was bound to surpass the US in consumer goods consuption. If you start off an economy with no one having any type of consumer goods. You will get an overly inflated growth rate. It will even out when there homes fill with crap like most in the west are. They wont be buying as much anymore cause 1) They have what they want 2) They cant afford it.

They have managed to slow down their growth, while it is still high, they show signs of being able to keep it stable. As for the second part, consumerism doesn't go away, and consumption will always be high in their economy, and their per capita income has quadrupled in the last 15 years, so they will be able to afford the imports.

Also another thing high demand is doing is driving prices way up in China. Thus creating a higher price for there "Cheap" imports. I am going to start looking elsewhere soon for cheap goods to import. This will stifle there global economic growth and trade. You may see a huge growth of wealthy and poor in China soon. What I have seen in the past with countries experiencing this is civil war or severe turmoil in the political system. So for the people thinking China is coming of age. They have a mighty huge speed bump to get over first. There inexperience and somewhat one minded thought is going to cause them to stumble. My guess is that they are going to hit an economic impasse and probably do something stupid. Most likey invade Taiwan to draw the attention away from its economic ills. Thus possibly start a very large war.
This is a possible but scary scenerio for the Chinese dragon.

I don't think the rising demand in China will hurt their economy any. There is more than enough foreign investment and cheap labor to fuel enough economic growth to support the workforce, and their enormous export market. Eventually their growth will be forced to slow, but not to the extent you are saying. Their most visible problem is China's and especially Korea's hubris in lending. Their banking systems are poor and they won't raise rates due to concerns over government debt.

If it does go down like you said, what makes you think there will be a civil war? What historical data do you have to back that up? They may spark world wide recession, but China is the last nation I would suspect to have a civil war.

America doesn't have few billion people living in it.

If it does go down like you said, what makes you think there will be a civil war? What historical data do you have to back that up? They may spark world wide recession, but China is the last nation I would suspect to have a civil war.


Last historical fact for a civil war is China in latter parts of WWII and a bit after. This of course isnt a direct comparison. But the two situations are both simular in economic crash's. The Communist gained a bunch of strength from the lower classes because of economic conditions.

I don't think the rising demand in China will hurt their economy any. There is more than enough foreign investment and cheap labor to fuel enough economic growth to support the workforce, and their enormous export market. Eventually their growth will be forced to slow, but not to the extent you are saying. Their most visible problem is China's and especially Korea's hubris in lending. Their banking systems are poor and they won't raise rates due to concerns over government debt.

.

There export market dying is a huge impact on there economy. There export market will probably shift to other Asian countries and the middle and south Americas. Another thing, there is only so much foreign investment. It is a limited rescource. If China even looks a bit unstable they wont go in.

There export market dying is a huge impact on there economy. There export market will probably shift to other Asian countries and the middle and south Americas. Another thing, there is only so much foreign investment. It is a limited rescource. If China even looks a bit unstable they wont go in.

The growing wealth of the Chinese people should in large part bouy the economy from any losses on the export market. The key to the economy is the demand for their products, if people will buy them, they will continue to produce them. If their products are staying domestic rather than being exported it is good for their economy. It may be bad for you, however, in your line of work.

And there should be their.

They still have the same leadership as before, personally, I think they are pretending to be capitalist, so they can have a wal mart type strategy, of driving the US' industries out of business, then have a stranglehold on the US economy, and return to a communist system as the sole industrial power of the world. Read that 2nd link about them spreading their influence.


They were never communist.

They already own enough US dollars to cripple the American economy anyway. So if the US stops trading with them the US is fucked.

From each according to his ability, to each according his need.


*Raises fist in agreement*

But at the rate its growing, it will overtake the totally overtake US in a few years on a per capita bases. Car sales have doubled in the last 2 years, and cell phone sales have gone up six-fold in the last 11.
Yes, but if you look at the rate their debt is rising it makes the US's look like chump change.

Yes, but if you look at the rate their debt is rising it makes the US's look like chump change.

No, their consumers don't have any debt.

They were never communist.

They already own enough US dollars to cripple the American economy anyway. So if the US stops trading with them the US is fucked.

Yes they were.

No, if we stop trading with them, they'll stop buying our debt, and the government will have to stop the budget deficit.

Maybe the competition will drive America so develop better products which will get them their market share back.

People in a Capitalist market will buy the best value for money product. Maybe you should look to the problems at home instead of pointing the finger

Maybe the competition will drive America so develop better products which will get them their market share back.

People in a Capitalist market will buy the best value for money product. Maybe you should look to the problems at home instead of pointing the finger


Maybe people in America should get paid a nickel an hour, work 18 hours a day in a sweatshop from 8 years old to 50, when they die of exposure to chemicals due to no regulation.

damn communists (http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/02/0dd20aa9-d5be-4b47-944d-c99c3ae5034f.html)

I think we should stop importing things from China, they're taking our jobs, driving up the prices of goods, and spreading communism (http://www.stoptheftaa.org/artman/publish/article_155.shtml)
1- China is not really communist
2- If they were, this would be a good thing becuase communism is good
3- This is a good thing becuase, by proportion to population, China should be the number 1 consumer of everytihng and if they're not it means their people are below the poverty line.
4- The fact that the US was first for so long means 2 things: We're greedy and wasteful.
5- Though China has surpassed us overall, we are still the largest per capita consumers, which again means we are wasteful.

2- If they were, this would be a good thing becuase communism is good.

So, I suppose you consider Mao's famines, the Cultural Revolution, and "Reeducation through labor" camps to all be good things, as well as systematic repression of ethnic minorities, expansionist conquests, and repression of all religions? Oh wait, let me guess, every communist nation that does those sorts of things (and they all do) didn't count as communist according to you?

I do not know about everyone else here, but I would rather not be stuck in under a government that takes away all my civil rights, has an economic system with a solid history of failure, and will throw me into a labor for 20 years if I complain about this, assuming they do not kill me and my entire extended family instead.

Maybe people in America should get paid a nickel an hour, work 18 hours a day in a sweatshop from 8 years old to 50, when they die of exposure to chemicals due to no regulation.

What? Too much laissez-faire for you? Don't worry, as China's economy develops they'll see the need for more regulation, both to keep their economy from overheating and crashing, and to meet their population demands.

On the other hand, China may just become the largest corporation on the planet.

Well, China are relatively new to capitalism.. So they might not be so experienced. I for one also see a new burst coming soon for China.

Regulations.. Hmm.. that would be kind of hard in my opinion. Maybe after several bad things happen to them first.

The chinese mentality is somewhat different compared to ours. To them money is number one, they'll kill, cheat and steal to benefit themselves above the rest. Why? Because Money is their God. Heheh these Atheists rock, they don't have a concept of 'sin' or doing wrong. Doing wrong is when you get caught and put into jail.

Maybe people in America should get paid a nickel an hour, work 18 hours a day in a sweatshop from 8 years old to 50, when they die of exposure to chemicals due to no regulation.
Maybe they should.... no, no probably not, but what is your point? If America can not make products better then a sleep deprived, hungry, sick 8 year old chinese kid, they need to have a good look at themselves.

Well, China are relatively new to capitalism.. So they might not be so experienced. I for one also see a new burst coming soon for China.

Regulations.. Hmm.. that would be kind of hard in my opinion. Maybe after several bad things happen to them first.

The chinese mentality is somewhat different compared to ours. To them money is number one, they'll kill, cheat and steal to benefit themselves above the rest. Why? Because Money is their God. Heheh these Atheists rock, they don't have a concept of 'sin' or doing wrong. Doing wrong is when you get caught and put into jail.
Heh im Atheist and I have morals, but I learnt mine from my parents and my environment not an ancient mystical father figure

So, I suppose you consider Mao's famines, the Cultural Revolution, and "Reeducation through labor" camps to all be good things, as well as systematic repression of ethnic minorities, expansionist conquests, and repression of all religions? Oh wait, let me guess, every communist nation that does those sorts of things (and they all do) didn't count as communist according to you?

I do not know about everyone else here, but I would rather not be stuck in under a government that takes away all my civil rights, has an economic system with a solid history of failure, and will throw me into a labor for 20 years if I complain about this, assuming they do not kill me and my entire extended family instead.


USA and England claimed to be capitalistic in the 19:th and I think also was then USA robbed the land from the natives, enslaved people and the English oppressed millions and millions of people and also caused famines in for example india that caused millions of people there lives. Or all the nice capitalistic countries during the 20:th century like for example Franco's Spain and Pinochets Chile. But of course almost no one today would ask people that support capatilist to support who's acts, but as a communist you immidietly get connected with people like Stalin and Mao. And even socialist or in some extream cases liberals also is faced to confrot who's guys.

Then it comes to communist I think you have the people who want a revulotion today and in some cases also that want a elite to rule until the equal society has been fullfilled. That can in most cases lead to dictaturship in todays world even if the people behind don't want it. Then you have the people that I want to call to be more socialist, but who still call them self communist, that want to have a more peacfully and democratic transition to the equal society. Self I like to call me socialist meaning I want a peacfull and democratic transition to the socialist society and realise that communist today is to much connected with revolutionism and avantgardist ideas.
This is just my personally thoughs on the matter.

They still have the same leadership as before, personally, I think they are pretending to be capitalist, so they can have a wal mart type strategy, of driving the US' industries out of business, then have a stranglehold on the US economy, and return to a communist system as the sole industrial power of the world. Read that 2nd link about them spreading their influence.

Of course they are. It's classic communist strategy.

2- If they were, this would be a good thing becuase communism is good




Tell that to my relatives and my volk who have been murdered across Europe and southern Africa by communist oppression and tyranny. Wait, you can't tell them, they're dead.

Perhaps you'd be singing a different tune if you had to endure a Siberian gulag under the iron rule of a despot such as Josef Stalin.


Why don't you try living under Mbeki, Mugabe, or Nujoma for a bit and see if it influences your opinion, if you're still alive to have one... (I think it's pretty dang hard to keep alive in southern Africa these days, but I'm assuming you're a white man)

It doesn't matter if you're black or white in southern Africa, if you don't support communism, you're dead. And indeed being white alone, they'll kill you for it, they don't care, they only want their specific tribe to adopt their system. If you're a black from a different tribe, they'll kill you. If you're white, they'll kill you.


Just be glad you live in the USA, but you're preaching using the 1st amendment to advocate destroying the Constitution.

You want to use our very Constitution to tear apart the Constitution.

Maybe they should.... no, no probably not, but what is your point? If America can not make products better then a sleep deprived, hungry, sick 8 year old chinese kid, they need to have a good look at themselves.

So a coat I buy that is made in China, which falls apart after 1 winter, is better than an American coat I have which is 6 years old and going strong?

What? Too much laissez-faire for you? Don't worry, as China's economy develops they'll see the need for more regulation, both to keep their economy from overheating and crashing, and to meet their population demands.

On the other hand, China may just become the largest corporation on the planet.




Laissez-faire capitalism doesn't work, all it does is force the workers to turn socialist. It was happening in the 1890's in the USA before the reforms.

You speak like that of a good thing? China is communist.

Maybe they should.... no, no probably not, but what is your point? If America can not make products better then a sleep deprived, hungry, sick 8 year old chinese kid, they need to have a good look at themselves.


American workers make much better products. Most stuff I bought at wal mart (when I used to go there) that was made in china, broke. When I was little my chinese made toys always broke.

Who is going to be a better worker? An 8 year old that works 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, and gets a bowl of rice a day, or an American worker that makes a good living, works 8 hours a day, gets enough sleep, and enough to eat.

The capitalist system does pretty much the same thing, but makes people do work to get money. In communism only about 10% of the population works to their greatest ability, because everything is guaranteed.

except the rich.which according to capitilist theory should be the ones doing the MOST work.but instead its the other way around.

except the rich.which according to capitilist theory should be the ones doing the MOST work.but instead its the other way around.


The rich do more decision making, and they get paid for making good decisions. Its a different kind of work.

But at the rate its growing, it will overtake the totally overtake US in a few years on a per capita bases. Car sales have doubled in the last 2 years, and cell phone sales have gone up six-fold in the last 11.


If it keeps growing at the current rate, GDP/capita will reach US-levels near the end of the century, if the US stays where it is now.

Car sales might have doubled, but is still less than in the US, China has just 25 million cars. Car production this year will reach 6 million.

When kids have cellphones, it has become a commodity, just like calculators. Soon, every dog has one too and you get one free of charge when you buy a piece of butter.

If you want to beat China you need to provide a better living quality or better environment, better education, better health care - along with enough people employed there. China does not have that and will take another 100 years to get it.

Why don't you try living under Mbeki, Mugabe, or Nujoma for a bit and see if it influences your opinion, if you're still alive to have one...

http://WWW.AfricanCrisis.Org/photos24.asp

:D

The rich do more decision making, and they get paid for making good decisions. Its a different kind of work.


Just another myth. The rich make much less decisions than anybody else.

While the rich can go shopping and just decide buy or not buy, the poor have to compare the prices, the quality, investment price and operating costs.

According to capitalist theory there is only production, if there is a buyer.

If you don't like Chinese goods, you shouldn't buy them, regardless of how many of them are on your supermarket shelves.


It's the customer who decides who wins.

According to capitalist theory there is only production, if there is a buyer.

If you don't like Chinese goods, you shouldn't buy them, regardless of how many of them are on your supermarket shelves.


It's the customer who decides who wins.

I don't buy them whenever possible, if there are 3 goods, and all of them are chinese, I buy the cheapest one, otherwise, I buy American.

American workers make much better products. Most stuff I bought at wal mart (when I used to go there) that was made in china, broke. When I was little my chinese made toys always broke.

Who is going to be a better worker? An 8 year old that works 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, and gets a bowl of rice a day, or an American worker that makes a good living, works 8 hours a day, gets enough sleep, and enough to eat.

The latter.

If it keeps growing at the current rate, GDP/capita will reach US-levels near the end of the century, if the US stays where it is now.

Car sales might have doubled, but is still less than in the US, China has just 25 million cars. Car production this year will reach 6 million.

When kids have cellphones, it has become a commodity, just like calculators. Soon, every dog has one too and you get one free of charge when you buy a piece of butter.

If you want to beat China you need to provide a better living quality or better environment, better education, better health care - along with enough people employed there. China does not have that and will take another 100 years to get it.

China's GDP has doubled in the last few years.

Yeah, but you're not looking at the rate in which its going up. Its not going to stay at a flat 6 million a year, its going to keep going up to 10, 15, and 20 million a year.

You don't know anything about anything. A cellphone is a very different thing that a calcualtor, because a cell phone means you need to pay for it every month, and upfront. A calculator you pay for one time, and keep for 10 years.

Considering most of the rivers in china are undrinkable, bathable, and usable, they have a much lower life expectency because of the pollution. They were a 3rd world farming country 20 years ago, and now they're 2nd world, closing in on 1st world, they will do that in a lot less than 100 years.

Just another myth. The rich make much less decisions than anybody else.

While the rich can go shopping and just decide buy or not buy, the poor have to compare the prices, the quality, investment price and operating costs.


The rich are the people that make decisions at their jobs, that takes a lot more brain power than operating factory machinery.

The rich have to do the same things with their budget. They just buy more expensive things, but they stilll budget their money.