NationStates Jolt Archive

[Apologies If this topic is already posted somewhere]

As everybody probably noticed there are a lot of Bush threads on this forum. A recurring argument is that Bush invaded Iraq 'illegally' and that many soldiers were killed for nothing. The response then often is that it was worth it, since Saddam was captured and Iraq has had elections. But some contradict this - saying that the current voted-in government is no better- or even worse- than Saddam. They also point out that Iraq is still far from a peaceful nation at the moment.

My question is.. who is right ? Please provide some figures/reports to back up your position if possible - and lets leave the question if the invasion was illegal or not for another thread ;)

Well, no. In fact it is a much worse place than it has ever been. Even before the European colonisation they were kept in check (e.g. no major conflicts) by their way of life and the desert. During colonisation the mighty (and far more brutal) colonial powers did what they do. And Saddam was also pretty good at it too. There were no civil wars, and, and this might surprise you, Iraq wasnt fundamentalistic (at least not to a degree that it is today). Also you couldnt get killed in the street while buying bread. I'm in no way saying that Saddam Hussein was a good thing, just that there is dictatorship and then there's dictatorship.

If nothing else, it probably pleases them that there is more than one name on the ballot. :)

If nothing else, it probably pleases them that there is more than one name on the ballot. :)

Most likely - but is that enough ? When the ballot options given are Hitler, Stalin and Ivan the Terrible I personally would not be very happy.. especially if Hitler has the most supporters and I'm a Jew.

Iraq will eventualy settle down. It'll take awhile and it won't be pretty to get to that point,but it'll happen. This will happen as long as the interim government can't draft a constitution, get it passed and have the next elections go as well as this one just did. The insurgents will be hounded more and more as more Iraqi security forces get trained and are reliable enough to function on their own. This is starting to happen, the security forces are becoming experienced and are already conducting their own patrols and raids with Coalition forces being used as backup. The Iraqi security forces are able to get more info from the civilians than the Coalition.

Most likely - but is that enough ? When the ballot options given are Hitler, Stalin and Ivan the Terrible I personally would not be very happy.. especially if Hitler has the most supporters and I'm a Jew.

Well, they were voting for their whole governmental council. So when you put Hitler, Stalin and Ivan The terrible together in the same room to make political decisions, things will even out. Or they'll tear eachother to ribbons with their fangs. Either way would be great fun to watch.

In fact, fuck C-span. We need to put the Iraqi legislature on Cable TV. That'd be entertaining. :)

Well, I was against the war. And I'm liberal. But in my opinion, in the long run, the country will probably be better off. Improvements are made every day, and with the elections over, hopefully when the new constitution is drafted, and the new government installed, things will get better for the people...and hopefully shiite/sunni tensions will decrease. But who knows? These things take time. In ten years, things will probably be much better off. But the American populace is too impatient and short-sighted to realize this.


The situation isn't as bad as everyone says it is..sure, there are some bad parts, but there are many good things going on; I should know, my dad is in Iraq. Not saying it validates the war, however. But the Democrats (the media as well) need to stop only pointing out the negatives of the situation. That's what I hate about what the Democrats did/are doing--arguing over the "excessive amount of deaths" (when in reality the number is remarkably low) and blasting bush for certain things he doesn't have control over.

Iraq is far better off. Sure, a few people die from terrorist attacks, but that is nothing compared to having several of them be seized every day so Saddam can shove their crotch into a shredder.