NationStates Jolt Archive


An Interesting Question About God

Bolol
20-02-2005, 04:55
Okay, if we're going literally, God has been around forever...and forever has been roughly 5 billion years.

That's a REALLY long time!

The question I need to ask is, does God really need worship? Dude's been around all this time, I bet he's tired of all the praise, and doesn't need to be constantly reminded of the fact that he's omnipotent.

"Monty Python and the Holy Grail" comes time mind don't it?

Another question. Do you really think that God is so possessed by his power that he will condemn anyone and everyone that doesn't follow His path in its entirety? If anything, I think that the man upstairs has developed a sense of humor, and wont banish me to Hell for all eternity just because I called St. Peter a prick (chauvanistic bastard...).

My idea of God at this point is a bored old guy upstairs, constantly shaking His head at all the troubles of the world, disapointed. He knows that he cannot intervene on behalf of his children, because he knows it will only cause strife.

Oh well, when I die, I'll sign a couple of petitions, try to get things straighted out. :D
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:00
I think God is more concerned with being believed in than anything else. I hope so, cos I spend alot of time being angry with God!!!
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:01
wait.... why does god have a gender again?
Intellipeace
20-02-2005, 05:01
which is why belief in god contradict itself. how can he can be so forgiving and wonderful if hes always smiting and is obvously so self centered.
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:04
wait.... why does god have a gender again?

cos it's easier to conceptualise god as a man or a woman. It's probable that God is neither, and not very human like, although christians may disagree with me!!!
Fass
20-02-2005, 05:05
Okay, if we're going literally, God has been around forever...and forever has been roughly 5 billion years.

More like 15.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:07
Well God is the creator, the giver of all life in the universe. What's another being that gives life in the universe? A female...

That would make God's most suitable form that of a...Hmm...Interesting...I guess the Bible may have been a little off!
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:08
my whole take on god is something like this; i don't really buy into religion, at least the whole standing and chanting en masse part. religions teach good morals, which i do believe in, and i think that as long as you stick to the morals dictated by your religion or (if those don't always ring true) your heart, you're A ok. but the whole 'everything good comes from god and you're all sinners and bad people' deal just seems like a load of bullshit to me. i've stopped beating my head against a wall (like this guy :headbang: ) over why such a 'benevolent creator' could allow such bad things happen to his creation.
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:08
Well God is the creator, the giver of all life in the universe. What's another being that gives life in the universe? A female...

That would make God's most suitable form that of a...Hmm...Interesting...I guess the Bible may have been a little off!

OK GOD"S A SHE> WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK AND A HALF.
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:09
cos it's easier to conceptualise god as a man or a woman. It's probable that God is neither, and not very human like, although christians may disagree with me!!!

i think that if there is a a higher intelligence that created us all it would serve us better not to give it a human face. It's too easy to fall prey to the thought that it would act like a human. I understand that people want to relate to and understand God but by pretending that they understand what god is and why god may have done stuff, they actually limit themselves from gaining any real understanding of this supposed gods nature by making most probably false presuppositions.
MuhOre
20-02-2005, 05:09
1. G-d doesn't care that we pray (sorta).... we pray to show our devotion to him.

2. G-d is everything...G-d is a hybrid Male, Female, Boy, Girl, Man Alien, Robot Trannie Fatty Acid with a hint of Sugar on top of a giant smiley face of doom. And he's the only lactose intolerant person in the world that drink milk and not die or pass fas. :eek:

G-d is omnipotent after all ;)
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:11
i think that if there is a a higher intelligence that created us all it would serve us better not to give it a human face. It's too easy to fall prey to the thought that it would act like a human. I understand that people want to relate to and understand God but by pretending that they understand what god is and why god may have done stuff, they actually limit themselves from gaining any real understanding of this supposed gods nature by making most probably false presuppositions.

I guess you are not a christian then?
MuhOre
20-02-2005, 05:11
More like 15.


oooh so we believe in a 15 billion year old Sky Wizard! Ya sure it's not more? Hard to tell when time in theory started...
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:11
its funny the extent to which people elevate matter over spirit
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:12
oooh so we believe in a 15 billion year old Sky Wizard! Ya sure it's not more?
LOL :p
Intellipeace
20-02-2005, 05:13
i think that if there is a a higher intelligence that created us all it would serve us better not to give it a human face. It's too easy to fall prey to the thought that it would act like a human. I understand that people want to relate to and understand God but by pretending that they understand what god is and why god may have done stuff, they actually limit themselves from gaining any real understanding of this supposed gods nature by making most probably false presuppositions.
this is the jewish view.
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:13
its funny the extent to which people elevate matter over spirit

and the extent to which people agree with others without realising it!!!
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:14
I guess you are not a christian then?

nope i dont believe religion is for me. i follow the path of my heart. i certainly believe in a higher intelligence but dont rpetend to even guess what it might be like. i have had many spiritual experiences where spirit has shown itself to me. life is so magical.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:14
OK GOD"S A SHE> WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK AND A HALF.

Dude...calm down...relax. Can't a man make a joke anymore?
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:15
Okay, if we're going literally, God has been around forever...and forever has been roughly 5 billion years.

That's a REALLY long time!

The question I need to ask is, does God really need worship? Dude's been around all this time, I bet he's tired of all the praise, and doesn't need to be constantly reminded of the fact that he's omnipotent.

"Monty Python and the Holy Grail" comes time mind don't it?

Another question. Do you really think that God is so possessed by his power that he will condemn anyone and everyone that doesn't follow His path in its entirety? If anything, I think that the man upstairs has developed a sense of humor, and wont banish me to Hell for all eternity just because I called St. Peter a prick (chauvanistic bastard...).

My idea of God at this point is a bored old guy upstairs, constantly shaking His head at all the troubles of the world, disapointed. He knows that he cannot intervene on behalf of his children, because he knows it will only cause strife.

Oh well, when I die, I'll sign a couple of petitions, try to get things straighted out. :D


1. God's been around forever. None of us know how long that's been really. 5 billion, 5 trillion, 5 zillion years maybe. Who knows.

2. God doesn't need our worship. We need it. In order to live happy and healthy lives, we all need something purely good to anchor ourselves to. We call this faith.

3. No, he won't condemn anyone to damnation just because we missed a few things. Truth is, none of us have it all right yet, but we try. We only have faith.

4. God has an excellent sense of humor. He invented the joke I believe. And he never called St. Peter a prick. He's like a son to him.

5. THE BOTTOM LINE: Without God, there would be no us. The big bang theory is all well and good, but where did the original hydrogen cell come from?

Matthew
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:16
this is the jewish view.


interesting... I did not know that. It is a shamanic view as well.
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:16
and the extent to which people agree with others without realising it!!!

and the extent to where people have no idea what other people even mean! lol
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:18
Dude...calm down...relax. Can't a man make a joke anymore?

you're saying this was joking?

Well God is the creator, the giver of all life in the universe. What's another being that gives life in the universe? A female...

That would make God's most suitable form that of a...Hmm...Interesting...I guess the Bible may have been a little off!

sure doesn't sound like it. it would be extremely annoying if you managed to drag feminazi bullshit into this.
Fass
20-02-2005, 05:18
oooh so we believe in a 15 billion year old Sky Wizard! Ya sure it's not more? Hard to tell when time in theory started...

There was no time before there was space-time. And current data indicates that space-time came into being 15 billion years ago.

Oh, and you're free to believe in the wizard all you want. I don't.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:19
4. God has an excellent sense of humor. He invented the joke I believe. And he never called St. Peter a prick. He's like a son to him.

No, I called St. Peter a prick.

But that's really not true, I'm just raggin' on him. You can't exactly become a beloved Saint by being an asshole.

So if you hear me up there Pete, I'm just pullin' yer chain!
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:19
nope i dont believe religion is for me. i follow the path of my heart. i certainly believe in a higher intelligence but dont rpetend to even guess what it might be like. i have had many spiritual experiences where spirit has shown itself to me. life is so magical.

Cool!!!
I'm not really into religion either, but I believe in some sort of spirituality, and a God of some form (not sure what though)

Not really had any experiences of spirits showing themselves to me though (at least none that weren't drug induced!)
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:19
1. God's been around forever. None of us know how long that's been really. 5 billion, 5 trillion, 5 zillion years maybe. Who knows.

2. God doesn't need our worship. We need it. In order to live happy and healthy lives, we all need something purely good to anchor ourselves to. We call this faith.

3. No, he won't condemn anyone to damnation just because we missed a few things. Truth is, none of us have it all right yet, but we try. We only have faith.

4. God has an excellent sense of humor. He invented the joke I believe. And he never called St. Peter a prick. He's like a son to him.

5. THE BOTTOM LINE: Without God, there would be no us. The big bang theory is all well and good, but where did the original hydrogen cell come from?

Matthew


But WHY must "God" have a gender?
Fass
20-02-2005, 05:19
sure doesn't sound like it. it would be extremely annoying if you managed to drag feminazi bullshit into this.

It is the person who uses terms like "feminazi" that is dealing in bullshit.
CelebrityFrogs
20-02-2005, 05:21
and the extent to where people have no idea what other people even mean! lol

and the extent to which people get the wrong end of the stick and post something which causes yet more confusion!

(as a confusion limitation measure I should like to point out that this post is mostly directed at me!)
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:21
It is the person who uses terms like "feminazi" that is dealing in bullshit.

i honestly hoped i'd never have to talk to you again after your little fiasco with the mods on deleting the word 'gay' from a poll totally unrelated to gays.
please leave me alone.
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:21
which is why belief in god contradict itself. how can he can be so forgiving and wonderful if hes always smiting and is obvously so self centered.


He's not always smiting, and maybe he is a bit self centered. But he's God. Who does he have to look up to? lol. If God was always smiting, then none of us would have any free will right? God is so forgiving and wonderful because he has to be. None of us are perfect, so he has to give us time and slack to get our shit together.

Matthew
Justifidians
20-02-2005, 05:22
But WHY must "God" have a gender?

The hebrew word for God is masculine, so I guess thats why God is refered to as a He.
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:22
Cool!!!
I'm not really into religion either, but I believe in some sort of spirituality, and a God of some form (not sure what though)

Not really had any experiences of spirits showing themselves to me though (at least none that weren't drug induced!)


when I said spirit I didnt mean "spirits" as in ghosts if thats what you meant. Although I have had my run in with those too. can't say I know anythign about them otehr than they were intelligent and otherworldly as well as unseen.

I meant the one spirit. The one that resides in all of us and can be felt in our hearts.
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:23
But WHY must "God" have a gender?

god doesn't have to, but the bible says man was created in the likeness of god.
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:23
No, I called St. Peter a prick.

But that's really not true, I'm just raggin' on him. You can't exactly become a beloved Saint by being an asshole.

So if you hear me up there Pete, I'm just pullin' yer chain!


I see. Take it easy on old St. Pete. He just reads names from a book. lol
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:24
Okay, Salutus, I was just trying to bring in a little bit of humor, okay. I am NOT a "feminazi", I'm not even a woman. Okay.

So let's everyone just sit back, relax, and tip back a cold one, a'right?

Friends?
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 05:24
The Judaeo/Christian God is:
Omnipotence - God can do anything.
Omniscience - God Knows everything
Omnibenevolence - God is all good
Omnipresence - God is everywhere
Incorporeality - God isn't physical unless he makes himself so (See omnipotence)
Aseity - God is not dependent on anything else
Eternity - God isn't bound by time constraints
Ineffability - God's nature can never be fully put into words
Perfection - God just so happens to be perfect

I could rant about how this definition poses a problem between God's existence and the existence of morally-unjustified evil (evil, that does not, at some point, become work for a greater good), but I'm not going to.
Pnlrogue1
20-02-2005, 05:24
I think, when all's said and done, that it's up to you to decide what you believe and what you do - that's why we were given free will

God is traditionally a male in most religions (certainly the most [I'm gonna annoy people by saying this, sorry] 'popular' religion(s)) though it is more accurate to assume that God would be non-gendered or, indeed, female

I don't believe that God cares too much if you pray every day and night and go to church etc, or even that you believe, only that you follow your morals - a good man who doesn't believe but does help people and feel bad whenever he does something wrong is more likely to go to Heaven, in my mind, than someone who is Roman Catholic but disowns his gay son/daughter, treats his wife like property and demolishes all opposition to his multi-million pound/dollar/euro (etc) business

pnlrogue1
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:25
Okay, Salutus, I was just trying to bring in a little bit of humor, okay. I am NOT a "feminazi", I'm not even a woman. Okay.

So let's everyone just sit back, relax, and tip back a cold one, a'right?

Friends?

deal. :)
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:25
But WHY must "God" have a gender?


I don't quite know. Maybe because it SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE. Read Genesis before you make a reply. Jeesh.

Matthew
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:25
and the extent to which people get the wrong end of the stick and post something which causes yet more confusion!

(as a confusion limitation measure I should like to point out that this post is mostly directed at me!)

and the extent to which people are so funny and make me laff. man im confused!
Fass
20-02-2005, 05:25
i honestly hoped i'd never have to talk to you again after your little fiasco with the mods on deleting the word 'gay' from a poll totally unrelated to gays.
please leave me alone.

I resent that. It was not a fiasco at all, since I got the derogatory remark removed.

And if you want to be left alone, what are you doing interacting (poorly, I might add) with people?
EmoBuddy
20-02-2005, 05:26
wait.... why does god have a gender again?
Ok, from now on every time you reference Him/Her you must make sure that He/She does not have a gender because He/She was never assigned a gender in the Bible and writing He/She and Him/Her is so much easier than writing He and Him.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:27
Oh jeez...What devastation have I wrought?!
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:28
I resent that. It was not a fiasco at all, since I got the derogatory remark removed.

And if you want to be left alone, what are you doing interacting (poorly, I might add) with people?

i only want to be left alone by you.
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:29
The Judaeo/Christian God is:
Omnipotence - God can do anything.
Omniscience - God Knows everything
Omnibenevolence - God is all good
Omnipresence - God is everywhere
Incorporeality - God isn't physical unless he makes himself so (See omnipotence)
Aseity - God is not dependent on anything else
Eternity - God isn't bound by time constraints
Ineffability - God's nature can never be fully put into words
Perfection - God just so happens to be perfect

I could rant about how this definition poses a problem between God's existence and the existence of morally-unjustified evil (evil, that does not, at some point, become work for a greater good), but I'm not going to.


I believe it's because God gave Lucifer too much power and free will. Then in turn, ole Satan began Hell Inc. The Eternal Lake Of Fire if you will. Which bears another question. Why do bad souls go to Hell? Because they earned it. Plain and simple.

Matthew
Sumamba Buwhan
20-02-2005, 05:29
god doesn't have to, but the bible says man was created in the likeness of god.


but there are plenty of different viersions of this universe creator. not all male. why must we pick the one from the bible? cant we pick none of them and talk in terms of something completely unknown?

it would be interesting to me if we spoke of god thru our persoal experience with spirit. truely we cannot expect our personal relationship with spirit to be held as ultimate truth for all others? everyone is on their individual journey and that is about the only thing we all really have in common beyond our made up social roles here in teh physical.
Pnlrogue1
20-02-2005, 05:29
Oh jeez...What devastation have I wrought?!

Lots, it would seem
Fass
20-02-2005, 05:29
i only want to be left alone by you.

No such luck. This is a public forum and I respond to whatever I wish to respond to.
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:29
Oh jeez...What devastation have I wrought?!

no worries bolol, it's not your fault. this sort of thing is bound to happen anytime a thread related to god is going on. especially with people like fass out there.
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 05:31
Gender people, read my post about the ineffability thing.

We don't know if god has a gender, so we can't put god's gender specifics into words.

God is an it for all I care.
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:32
No such luck. This is a public forum and I respond to whatever I wish to respond to.

damn! i'll just go cry myself to sleep.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:33
no worries bolol, it's not your fault. this sort of thing is bound to happen anytime a thread related to god is going on. especially with people like fass out there.

Yes, my plan is going perfectly...

Muhahaha!


Wait...Damn...
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 05:33
Oh jeez...What devastation have I wrought?!


I hear you. So many of us have different views on God, but most of us agree on one thing, and that is that God does exist. And to me, that's the main thing that counts. :) G2G people. I have to go to church in the morning. I hope you will too. The church can give you much better answers than I can.

Matthew
Pnlrogue1
20-02-2005, 05:35
I hear you. So many of us have different views on God, but most of us agree on one thing, and that is that God does exist. And to me, that's the main thing that counts. :) G2G people. I have to go to church in the morning. I hope you will too. The church can give you much better answers than I can.

Matthew

Well put.

Being 4.36AM, i should probably go to bed too - i have a mountain of work to do for monday morning :-( The joys of University...
Salutus
20-02-2005, 05:35
Yes, my plan is going perfectly...

Muhahaha!


Wait...Damn...

that was one dastardly plan. :)
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 05:42
I believe it's because God gave Lucifer too much power and free will. Then in turn, ole Satan began Hell Inc. The Eternal Lake Of Fire if you will. Which bears another question. Why do bad souls go to Hell? Because they earned it. Plain and simple.

Matthew


It depends on how you address the idea of a good being. In most philosophical and theological writings I've read, a good being is a being that will do anything within its power to prevent morally unjustified evil from occuring.

If we stick with that definition and say that god is omnipotent (which the bible does say, so in referencing to the Judaeo/Christian god it is true), god will intervene and prevent any morally unjustified evil from occuring because he is a good being and he has the power to do so.

This leads us to a dillema in human understanding. Hitler's persecution of homosexuals, blacks and slavs are all morally unjustified in the modern human world view (the persecution of the Jews does not count as morally unjustified because the Bible makes mention that Jews all over the world shall be endlessly persecuted because of their faith). The Columbine incident, or the Scott Peterson case could also be considered morally unjustified evil in the m.h.w.v. (modern human world view). The USSR's gulags and the bombings throughout Iraq today that killed more than 35 humans all fit under the same catagory.

If god were true to his biblical definition, all of these events would have been prevented, OR all of these events fall into the catagory of "god's great plan" thus placing us in another paradox. If all events fit into "god's great plan" and god is "omniscient", then man's free will is merely an illusion and all acts, and thoughts on actions are already known and recorded in god's mind. Thus, the bible's definition of humanity is incorrect, and the Bible is invalidated. On the flipside, if man does truly have free will then god cannot know what we do until we do it.

Since both of these paradoxes exist, and both of them end similarly, we can prove that god does not exist by the Judaeo/Christian definition. This does not say that a god type figure does not exist, merely that the Judaeo/Christian definiton cannot be supported.

Even teleological proof can't deny the contradiction in terms of the Judaeo/Christan definition of God and the paradoxes presented by it.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:47
It depends on how you address the idea of a good being. In most philosophical and theological writings I've read, a good being is a being that will do anything within its power to prevent morally unjustified evil from occuring.

If we stick with that definition and say that god is omnipotent (which the bible does say, so in referencing to the Judaeo/Christian god it is true), god will intervene and prevent any morally unjustified evil from occuring because he is a good being and he has the power to do so.

This leads us to a dillema in human understanding. Hitler's persecution of homosexuals, blacks and slavs are all morally unjustified in the modern human world view (the persecution of the Jews does not count as morally unjustified because the Bible makes mention that Jews all over the world shall be endlessly persecuted because of their faith). The Columbine incident, or the Scott Peterson case could also be considered morally unjustified evil in the m.h.w.v. (modern human world view). The USSR's gulags and the bombings throughout Iraq today that killed more than 35 humans all fit under the same catagory.

If god were true to his biblical definition, all of these events would have been prevented, OR all of these events fall into the catagory of "god's great plan" thus placing us in another paradox. If all events fit into "god's great plan" and god is "omniscient", then man's free will is merely an illusion and all acts, and thoughts on actions are already known and recorded in god's mind. Thus, the bible's definition of humanity is incorrect, and the Bible is invalidated. On the flipside, if man does truly have free will then god cannot know what we do until we do it.

Since both of these paradoxes exist, and both of them end similarly, we can prove that god does not exist by the Judaeo/Christian definition. This does not say that a god type figure does not exist, merely that the Judaeo/Christian definiton cannot be supported.

Even teleological proof can't deny the contradiction in terms of the Judaeo/Christan definition of God and the paradoxes presented by it.

Okay, I can't beat that...Ever. Because it actually made beautiful sense.

And with that revealation, it is 11:51 on the East Coast, and I am one tired unit. Goodbye.
Knight2142
20-02-2005, 05:47
hi everyone. i can tell all of you worry about hopw to reference me. well, thank you. but i ask, aren't there more pressing matters in your world? such as, lets say, avoiding a flood you so richly deserve, i mean come on, look at the idiots some of you have put into power. and what is all this killing of others in my name. what is that?? didn't i say thou shalt NOT kill, not don't kill unless the person is in your way. now, judism vs christianity vs islam...get along. no reason why not. any arguments, they aren't religion, you all pray to me. at least be honest as to why you are killing each other (and keep me out of it). oh there is so much more to rant on, but i'm missing my shows. go deal with your own shit. i'm out.




p.s. all reference to me = god was for pure literary sence. thank you.
Bolol
20-02-2005, 05:52
hi everyone. i can tell all of you worry about hopw to reference me. well, thank you. but i ask, aren't there more pressing matters in your world? such as, lets say, avoiding a flood you so richly deserve, i mean come on, look at the idiots some of you have put into power. and what is all this killing of others in my name. what is that?? didn't i say thou shalt NOT kill, not don't kill unless the person is in your way. now, judism vs christianity vs islam...get along. no reason why not. any arguments, they aren't religion, you all pray to me. at least be honest as to why you are killing each other (and keep me out of it). oh there is so much more to rant on, but i'm missing my shows. go deal with your own shit. i'm out.




p.s. all reference to me = god was for pure literary sence. thank you.

Okay...Who the hell are you?

This thread was on the verge of being CIVIL! You do not wish to positively debate, then kindly leave thank you.
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 05:54
Knight, ESAD kthxbye.

Bolol, I've been up since 5:30 AM EST. Don't give the forum any of that crap about being tired!
Knight2142
20-02-2005, 06:56
"This thread was on the verge of being CIVIL! You do not wish to positively debate, then kindly leave thank you."

sorry, didn't mean to sound like i was trying to cause civil unrest, just tryin to add some points in a humoristic matter. i will rtry to keep my sence of humor in check.
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 06:58
Go back to elementary school so you can learn to spell correctly, then start making jokes about god.
Knight2142
20-02-2005, 19:04
it has to be that i can't spell?? it can't just be a typo? well, thanks for the flame anyway.
Dragonmoth
20-02-2005, 19:20
It depends on how you address the idea of a good being. In most philosophical and theological writings I've read, a good being is a being that will do anything within its power to prevent morally unjustified evil from occuring.

If we stick with that definition and say that god is omnipotent (which the bible does say, so in referencing to the Judaeo/Christian god it is true), god will intervene and prevent any morally unjustified evil from occuring because he is a good being and he has the power to do so.

This leads us to a dillema in human understanding. Hitler's persecution of homosexuals, blacks and slavs are all morally unjustified in the modern human world view (the persecution of the Jews does not count as morally unjustified because the Bible makes mention that Jews all over the world shall be endlessly persecuted because of their faith). The Columbine incident, or the Scott Peterson case could also be considered morally unjustified evil in the m.h.w.v. (modern human world view). The USSR's gulags and the bombings throughout Iraq today that killed more than 35 humans all fit under the same catagory.

If god were true to his biblical definition, all of these events would have been prevented, OR all of these events fall into the catagory of "god's great plan" thus placing us in another paradox. If all events fit into "god's great plan" and god is "omniscient", then man's free will is merely an illusion and all acts, and thoughts on actions are already known and recorded in god's mind. Thus, the bible's definition of humanity is incorrect, and the Bible is invalidated. On the flipside, if man does truly have free will then god cannot know what we do until we do it.

Since both of these paradoxes exist, and both of them end similarly, we can prove that god does not exist by the Judaeo/Christian definition. This does not say that a god type figure does not exist, merely that the Judaeo/Christian definiton cannot be supported.

Even teleological proof can't deny the contradiction in terms of the Judaeo/Christan definition of God and the paradoxes presented by it.


Good point, but I think you're still a little off. All mankind has the free will to do whatever they wish. Good or evil, it is our choice. God knows how we will choose. This is omniscience. God fixes the wrongs in the world by making them work for the greater good. This is omnipotence. People everywhere commit either acts of goodness or acts of evil. Our own judgment leads us to this. This is human free will. The holocaust, the nuclear bombings in Japan, the AIDS epidemic, the events of September 11th in New York City, the tsunami disaster, and every other atrocity mankind has witnessed, HAS A PURPOSE. Remember this important reality. The best things to come from all these disasters and atrocities is that they brought mankind together to help their fellow human beings. Don't you see this? God is always watching us and guiding us. This is omnipresence. God may not exist in the sense of a man in the clouds with a white beard and a broad smile, placed firmly on a throne of gold, but God does exist in Heaven, and more importantly, in our hearts, and our minds. Every one of us carries God with us. Man or woman, tall or short, fat or thin, gay or straight, black, white, or otherwise. We all do. No matter our race, our creed, or our own personal shortcomings.

The deal with Satan is that he isn't human. God cannot guide or reason with him as he can with us. And when you think about it, without evil, goodness wouldn't be so great now would it?

Matthew
Sukcses
20-02-2005, 19:27
Why MUST God exist?? I for one believe in A GOD (I'm not sure what I believe about him/her, though) but now I'm thinking...is it possible that "God" and "time" are simply creations of human intellect??
Vaelon
20-02-2005, 21:52
<snip>

The deal with Satan is that he isn't human. God cannot guide or reason with him as he can with us. And when you think about it, without evil, goodness wouldn't be so great now would it?

I know what you are trying to get at, but it still doesn't break through this one paradox.

Man has the free will to do what God already knows he is going to do. We can't surprise God no matter how hard we try because he already knows what we are going to do. So our free will really isn't free at all, it is a path with the illusion of free choice. God's omniscience is what allows Calvinists to be valid faithfuls, those predestined into heaven are those who will enter the kingdom of god. The Calvinist view of predestination then, because of god's omniscience is probably the most correct of all views regarding salvation according to the Bible.

Now, the deal with Satan is more that Satan fits into God's plan as a way of showing man the wrongs in his life so that man may come to know Jesus and find the better, eternal goodness of God and the coming New Jerusalem.
Texan Hotrodders
20-02-2005, 22:01
It is the person who uses terms like "feminazi" that is dealing in bullshit.

Why so? There are some radical feminist groups that hold strongly authoritarian views similar to Nazi views. They're hardly mainstream, and it's really not appropopriate to call conceptualizing God as female "feminazi", but feminazi is a viable term.