NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is an excellent real-world story that illustrates why high US taxes are bad and how tax cuts can help the US economy, thereby raising tax revenues. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=509&ncid=509&e=3&u=/ap/20050219/ap_on_bi_ge/foreign_profits_taxes)

No. It's not.

Corporate welfare, no controls on how they spend the money.

That trickle you feel coming down is a buch of fatcat CEO's pissing on you.

trickle down economics works so well :rolleyes:


ps: haven't read the article, just my general opinion. sorry.

YAY! Even less services than before! Woo-hoo! Who needs hospitals, fire stations, police, schools, highways, research and development, or any of those other useless, expensive things anyways?

YAY! Even less services than before! Woo-hoo! Who needs hospitals, fire stations, police, schools, highways, research and development, or any of those other useless, expensive things anyways?
You should be rejoycing, that is money that has been sitting overseas not ever being taxes, the revenues brought in are all new BABY!

The company can now inject that capital into our economy through expansion, pay or dividends - all of which result in spending - therefore increasing economic activity, jobs and (your favorite) tax revenues.

(BTW - You should check your facts, Hospitals and schools have a substantial private enterprise, and R+D is almost the sole domain of private enterprise.

trickle down economics works so well :rolleyes:


ps: haven't read the article, just my general opinion. sorry.
Opinions are so much easier to have without information.

For those of you too lazy to click here are a few highlights;



The announcements stem from a law passed in October that allows companies, for one year, to pay a reduced 5.25 percent tax on overseas earnings returned to the United States. The profits otherwise face tax rates as high as 35 percent.

Allen Sinai, president and chief economist at Decision Economics, estimated that companies might be on track to announce a combined $100 billion repatriation during the first quarter of the year.

He estimated the influx of cash could generate 400,000 to 600,000 jobs over the next few years and boost economic growth this year.

Johnson & Johnson, which makes a broad range of health care products, plans to return $11 billion to the country. Dell, the computer manufacturer, has $4 billion to repatriate. Kellogg, known for its cereal and snacks, wants to return $1 billion to domestic operations.

No part of the law requires companies to show they have increased spending in the areas where they devote money brought in under the law. Repatriated money can displace dollars already spent on the approved uses, freeing up those funds for other purposes.


So we have no way of knowing if the compaies aren't lying their butts off.
Great...enron proves that we can trust companies. :P

So after all this time going overseas at expense of America; now they come back and we have no assrance that they will even do what they say.

Opinions are so much easier to have without information.
i've had 5 years of education in Economics. that's my information.

So we have no way of knowing if the compaies aren't lying their butts off.
Great...enron proves that we can trust companies. :P

So after all this time going overseas at expense of America; now they come back and we have no assrance that they will even do what they say.
Who cares what they do with the money? It is theirs, afterall. Nobody asks you to justify your earned income.

Besides, there is nothing they can do which would NOT lead to economic growth - short of export it to another country - which is what this cut is meant to undo.

i've had 5 years of education in Economics. that's my information.
If you can't comprehend something as simple as supply side economics then you really oughta ask for your money back. You'd have been better off with piano lessons.


btw - i was referring to this;

ps: haven't read the article, just my general opinion. sorry.

bbtw - five years?? Which one did you have to repeat?

Who cares what they do with the money? It is theirs, afterall. Nobody asks you to justify your earned income.

Besides, there is nothing they can do which would NOT lead to economic growth - short of export it to another country - which is what this cut is meant to undo.
I think the IRS does actually make you justify your earned income (usually tax breaks and stuff but you must justify that expenditure).

I think the IRS does actually make you justify your earned income (usually tax breaks and stuff but you must justify that expenditure).


Nope - I've never had to justify my spending - only my deductions - what few I am allowed. (grumble)


You do have to claim income - which is very different from justifying it.

Corporations use to make up 55% of the taxes collected in the United states - Today they stand at a low of 22%.

Usually Taxes only really go up for individuals, whiich isn't a very GOOD thing..

Because what you usually find is that government ONLY gets bigger, NEVER smaller.. They CREATE more laws, NEVER reducing laws..

This later leads to a dicatorship, When people are asked or in this case - TOLD to pay more money into the tax system, while at the same time, losing the rights because of new laws while government becomes this bigger and bigger organization controlled mainly by Corporate interest.

The United States is very young, therefore, It is my belief that you can not gain freedom, but only lose freedom, and in fact The United States will lose freedom..

In The past we can look at many countries - Socialism of Russia, nothing started out the way then ended up, The same will be said here in America..

We are already seeing a parting of the waves... sort of speak..

By passing tax burdens on to individuals.. By reducing their power through more laws being passed..

By outsourcing work oversea's while importing people (making an economy that will eventually lead to less and less pay).. This creates NO middle class.. only poor and rich over time (usually about 50 years) ..

The United States will become what they so proudly Say they stand against...

Troy* ;)

If you can't comprehend something as simple as supply side economics then you really oughta ask for your money back. You'd have been better off with piano lessons.


btw - i was referring to this;


bbtw - five years?? Which one did you have to repeat?
i can understand supply side economics just fine, i just don't think trickle-down economics is good policy is all. and i still haven't read the article so i really have no business posting opinion about it, but i was having an opinionated moment at the time :)

the five years were 2 years GCSE economics, 2 years A-level economics, and 1 miserable maths-filled year of degree-level economics. the subject changes so much at degree level :(

(BTW - You should check your facts, Hospitals and schools have a substantial private enterprise, and R+D is almost the sole domain of private enterprise.

Tch, tch. Now that entirely depends on what nation you live in, doesn't it? I'd rather have a good public system that ensured everyone got quality care or education, than one where only the people with money can pay for. (Yes, yes, I know American hospitals can't refuse emergency treatment to the poor. But there are a whole lot of medical needs that don't qualify under that standard, and a lot more insurance companies that limit what conditions insurance covers. As for US schools, it's pretty obvious that a lot of public schools are too cash strapped & have to deal with too many non-educational problems to properly educate children. Or 'No Child Left Behind' wouldn't have been needed. But hey, all I read about is how that program is chronicly underfunded and how 'teaching to the test' doesn't help anyone. That, and I saw the US's PISA results. Not horrible by any standard, reasonably good actually, but certainly not among the best.)

And if you think companies and universities in the United States don't get public money for research and development in the form of grants, you've got your head in the sand.

Wouldn't it be better to close the tax loopholes that allows them to hide thier money overseas?

And yes, this low tax anmesty is a good idea.

In the global market, we have cut taxes on everyone and cut spending....focus on being the country that entices the most companies.

This is hardly a "tax cut". It is an incentive to bring back money currently residing overseas via a loophole that otherwise the government would never see a penny on. By providing a short-term, low-tax exemption the government is actually RAISING taxes to repatriate some money that otherwise would be left offshore.

These companies are just choosing to pay this tax in order to bring money back that they could just as easily leave in tax-exempt status overseas to fund foreign expansion rather than domestic.

This is hardly a "tax cut". It is an incentive to bring back money currently residing overseas via a loophole that otherwise the government would never see a penny on. By providing a short-term, low-tax exemption the government is actually RAISING taxes to repatriate some money that otherwise would be left offshore.

These companies are just choosing to pay this tax in order to bring money back that they could just as easily leave in tax-exempt status overseas to fund foreign expansion rather than domestic.

I was speaking in general...not within this articles context.

Corporations use to make up 55% of the taxes collected in the United states - Today they stand at a low of 22%.

Right, that justifies income tax cuts for the individual taxpayor quite well.

Usually Taxes only really go up for individuals, whiich isn't a very GOOD thing..

Because what you usually find is that government ONLY gets bigger, NEVER smaller.. They CREATE more laws, NEVER reducing laws..


spoken like a true conservative.

This later leads to a dicatorship, When people are asked or in this case - TOLD to pay more money into the tax system, while at the same time, losing the rights because of new laws while government becomes this bigger and bigger organization controlled mainly by Corporate interest.

The United States is very young, therefore, It is my belief that you can not gain freedom, but only lose freedom, and in fact The United States will lose freedom..

In The past we can look at many countries - Socialism of Russia, nothing started out the way then ended up, The same will be said here in America..

We are already seeing a parting of the waves... sort of speak..

By passing tax burdens on to individuals.. By reducing their power through more laws being passed..

By outsourcing work oversea's while importing people (making an economy that will eventually lead to less and less pay).. This creates NO middle class.. only poor and rich over time (usually about 50 years) ..

The United States will become what they so proudly Say they stand against...

Troy* ;)


You kinda ramble there towards the end, not sure exactly what you're trying to communicate. It is worth note that the middle class is the US is head and shoulders and waistline abouve the rest of the world. Even the Poor in America are well-to-do when you remove the subjective scale.

I thought you were cool B0zzy... and then you had to go ruin it by posting some retarded crap like this. ::sob::

Everyone knows trickle-down economies are a load of crap.

Even the Poor in America are well-to-do when you remove the subjective scale.

I live in L.A.

I've seen poor people crap in the street, freezing in the rains (in this current tumultuous weather we're having), starving by restaurants, passed by by everyone. The neon lights on the churches do nothing for them, the fat cats in big cars do nothing for them. They are alone and in pain to the greatest degree, at least the poor in 3rd wolrd countries are banded together and are oblivious to the wealth of those around them.
I've talked to some homeless people. They have no safety or security. They have no decency or assurance. Noone cares about them. They get robbed and attacked by crazies, hounded by police for "soliciting", and only find refuge in regions with atheists, liberal christians, and jews --- you know, the ones who lack morals.
It's sickening and I've suggested that most try and make it to Canada where there are real people to help them, instead of shallow minded dogmatic greedy individuals.

Oh, and once you fall to the bottom, it's damn near impossible to get up.

This is hardly a "tax cut". It is an incentive to bring back money currently residing overseas via a loophole that otherwise the government would never see a penny on. By providing a short-term, low-tax exemption the government is actually RAISING taxes to repatriate some money that otherwise would be left offshore.

These companies are just choosing to pay this tax in order to bring money back that they could just as easily leave in tax-exempt status overseas to fund foreign expansion rather than domestic.
If a taxrate is reduced from 35% to 5% I would suggest that qualifies as a cut, regardless of the motivation.

I thought you were cool B0zzy... and then you had to go ruin it by posting some retarded crap like this. ::sob::

Everyone knows trickle-down economies are a load of crap.


Supply-side economics is the general principal of capitalism - and it has worked better than any other system devised and to the benefit of the vast majority of people. Difficult to qualify that as crap.

Oh, and I AM cool, just ask my mom. :)

I live in L.A.

I've seen poor people crap in the street, freezing in the rains (in this current tumultuous weather we're having), starving by restaurants, passed by by everyone. The neon lights on the churches do nothing for them, the fat cats in big cars do nothing for them. They are alone and in pain to the greatest degree, at least the poor in 3rd wolrd countries are banded together and are oblivious to the wealth of those around them.
I've talked to some homeless people. They have no safety or security. They have no decency or assurance. Noone cares about them. They get robbed and attacked by crazies, hounded by police for "soliciting", and only find refuge in regions with atheists, liberal christians, and jews --- you know, the ones who lack morals.
It's sickening and I've suggested that most try and make it to Canada where there are real people to help them, instead of shallow minded dogmatic greedy individuals.

Oh, and once you fall to the bottom, it's damn near impossible to get up.
Incidental information statistics don't make. Also, I don't think your 'misery loves company' point is fair to the 3rd world poor. When you look at the definition of 'poor' in the US and compare it to any other nation you find a very different definition the vast majority of times.

As far as not getting up from the 'bottom' - not true. Immigrants come to the US and start from 'the bottom' all the time. (or lower if you discount language skills) Most are successful.

Those who have given up trying to contribute to or participate in society should go to Canada. Misery loves company. :)


(my wife is Canadian - you should know the last comment was meant for her)

Forgive me, I misinterpreted the type of tax cuts you were talking about.

Tax cuts for the rich to spur a "trickle-down affect" are a load of crap.
Tax cuts for corporations to encourage American businesses are not.

Forgive me, I misinterpreted the type of tax cuts you were talking about.

Tax cuts for the rich to spur a "trickle-down affect" are a load of crap.
Tax cuts for corporations to encourage American businesses are not.
They are both, in many ways the same thing, often with the same results.

Remember, according to many politicians 'rich' is anyone who makes over $80,000/year. Hell, in some places that is barely enough to cover rent.