NationStates Jolt Archive

My grandfather was the greatest man I have ever known. He was a preacher, sat on the chair of school board. He raised five children that all became successful, good human beings. My mother and I spent three years living with him after my father left. Most of my good personality characteristics come from him.

He was also the strongest man I have ever known, until he got Parkinsons. He spent the last two years of his life bedridden, veering inbetween near lucidity and absolute confusion. I cannot even fathom what he went through, but I do know his illness nearly destroyed my grandmother, hurt everyone who knew him very badly, and made it near impossible for me to in the same room with the man who was the closest thing I had to a father. He died a year ago and even now I have to collect myself to keep from crying.

Now, I was an atheist long before all of this transpired, and this did little to affect my beliefs, but I want to know how Christians cope with this sort of thing, and how it would affect your beliefs.

First of all, don't be scared to cry. It takes a real man to cry in these situations. If I was in your situation, I'd look to God for guidance, and I'd know that it was him time to, and God needed him in heaven. Sure, I'd definetely grieve for quite a while, you lost someone really close to you. Eventually, I'd accept that it was his time, and that I'd again meet him some day in heaven.

I was there when my Grandmother died from Alzheimers and liver cancer. I and my cousin helped to administer her morphine for the pain in the last few days. It hasn't affected my atheism.

Your post is touching and I give my sympathies to you and your family. It must be terrible to see such an idol of strength and stability decline into incoherence, pain and insaity.

However I think the title of the post could have been put better.

suffering is entirely in our heads. there are better reasons to disbelieve the typical version of "God" you people don't like. if the only way of understanding god was the one most atheists are familiar with, I'd be an atheist too. suffering is our problem, not God's. the only way to get rid of it is to stop wanting what you can't have...which is pretty much anything but pure existance. pure existance is God. fall madly in love with reality itself and suffering ceases to exist. if it's any consolation, he still exists, but I doubt you'd believe that anyway.

Your post is touching and I give my sympathies to you and your family. It must be terrible to see such an idol of strength and stability decline into incoherence, pain and insaity.

However I think the title of the post could have been put better.

No, that is how he died, I was completely honest about his life, I was completely honest about his death. But thank you for your sympathies.

And to Haloman, his death was hard for a period, but I have yet to get over the way he died. So I can't take much solace in it being "his time."

My opinion is: They believe that their loved ones go on to better things after death. because it makes them feel better knowing that their loved one that died isnt just dead. It also gives them hope that they might see that person again.

My opinion is: They believe that their loved ones go on to better things after death. because it makes them feel better knowing that their loved one that died isnt just dead. It also gives them hope that they might see that person again.

have you ever looked into spirituality? you might be suprised.

suffering is entirely in our heads. there are better reasons to disbelieve the typical version of "God" you people don't like. if the only way of understanding god was the one most atheists are familiar with, I'd be an atheist too. suffering is our problem, not God's. the only way to get rid of it is to stop wanting what you can't have...which is pretty much anything but pure existance. pure existance is God. fall madly in love with reality itself and suffering ceases to exist. if it's any consolation, he still exists, but I doubt you'd believe that anyway.

So my grandparent's suffering was all in their head? My grandpa didn't recognize his wife most of the time, he was constantly confused dealing with recycled memories from 30 years ago. My grandmother rarely left the house for over two years and spent every waking hour and many a night caring for my grandfather. When you can just brush off that suffering, come back and talk about it all being in your head.

And like I said, I was an atheist before this, for logical reasons, not emotional reasons.

I could do the "he lives on through your good characteristics" routine but I'd probably just annoy you, so I'll just say this. People die sometimes, and it's shit. It might seem like you'll feel like this forever, but you won't. It'll get better. You just need to sit it out. Be strong.

while I don't want this to turn into an atheist v. christian (or any other religion) discussion, it makes me sad that people lose faith (or never had any to begin with).
But onto the topic: my grandfather has had parkinsons basically since i can remember (i'm 18 now, so at least 10-12 yrs). Sometimes i think of how i will react when he really starts to go. He is still in basically full mental functioning, but obviously his physical status is not good. Hopefully he will not be a "babbling idiot", as you put it in your description, but it will still be hard. I guess I dont know what my true reaction will be until it happens, so I guess I'll have to get back to you on it, but as far as the religious aspect is concerned, it will probably be similar to what C-anadia said. I dont think that will be the only thing driving my response though, so hopefully I will be able to deal with it like I normally do with emotional things like that.

I am not Christian, but I thought I would share this with you. I only hope it gives you some solace.

In the time of sleep this body is as though dead; it does not see nor hear, it does not feel, it has no consciousness, no perception: that is to say, the powers of man have become inactive, but the spirit lives and subsists. Nay, its penetration is increased, its flight is higher, and its intelligence is greater. To consider that after the death of the body the spirit perishes, is like imagining that a bird in a cage will be destroyed if the cage is broken, though the bird has nothing to fear from the destruction of the cage. Our body is like the cage, and the spirit is like the bird. We see that without the cage this bird flies in the world of sleep; therefore if the cage becomes broken, the bird will continue and exist: its feelings will be even more powerful, its perceptions greater, and its happiness increased. In truth, from hell it reaches a paradise of delights, because for the thankful birds there is no paradise greater than freedom from the cage. That is why with utmost joy and happiness the martyrs hasten to the plain of sacrifice.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 326)

So my grandparent's suffering was all in their head?

um, yes. life is transitory and temporary - wanting it to be anything else garentees suffering. do you cry when leaves fall? We're only more complicated versions of that same life - we think its passing is beautiful, though. We have all the value of dust...and even dust is made of a swirling intricately complex dance of energy that has surpassing beauty. Nothing has changed.

Now, I was an atheist long before all of this transpired, and this did little to affect my beliefs, but I want to know how Christians cope with this sort of thing, and how it would affect your beliefs.
My own grandfather died a long, mentally-debilitating death. He was a physically strong and religiously devout man.

Your post, as quoted above, seems to be asking "How do you reconcile your notion of God with the reality of suffering?" Please correct me if I have misunderstood this.

If I understood you, then my answer is: I'm reminded of one of the sermons of my pastor (and since I'm recalling this from memory, I'm probably going to butcher his words very badly): "When people suffer tragedies, they sometimes ask 'Why me, Lord? I've been a good Christian! I've been a good Catholic! Why is this happening to me?' Well, suffering is a part of life; we're no fools, we all know that. We face the harsh realities of life every time we step outside those doors [gestures to church doors]. Life can be hard at times, even for good Christians. Look at Our Lord, [gestures to picture of Christ upon the cross] He was the perfect man... and look at what happened to him. Being a good Christian doesn't mean that we're spared from suffering, or that life is all rosy and nice, because it's not. What it does mean is that we are all called upon by Almighty God to keep trying, despite the difficulties, despite the hardships, to go on as best we can."

...

I don't know if I'm anywhere close to answering your question, Vittos.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

My grandfather was a plasterer. For those who don't know, plaster dust is carcinogenic, and he died of lung cancer in both lungs. I was with him when a month from his death he was babbling incoherently. At one point he apologized to me, but that was unnecessary. In his final days he refused pain medications and ultimately died at his house, his body swollen from metastasizing tumors.

My grandmother now has alzheimers, and does not remember who I am. Her insanity mysteriously began the instant her husband died, and my entire family knows it will not be long now.

It seems as though none of my grandparents will have died as the people they were during their long and illustrious lives, but that is of no consequence, for every person alive on this earth is not the same person they were yesterday, or last year, or ten years ago.

That is the nature of corporeal existence. We begin as one thing and end as something else, changing continuously throughout. Where we end up in no way diminishes who we were at ages 20, 40, 60, etc.


The image you have of your grandfather on his death bed is just that: an image. It is not who he was five or ten years before his death. Whatever image(s) you choose to associate with him is up to you, but one snapshot in time is an infinitely insufficient description of him, as it is of anyone.

Being a good Christian doesn't mean that we're spared from suffering, or that life is all rosy and nice, because it's not. What it does mean is that we are all called upon by Almighty God to keep trying, despite the difficulties, despite the hardships, to go on as best we can."

...

I don't know if I'm anywhere close to answering your question, Vittos.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation


true, but I think the larger question isn't "will god stop it?" but "why doesn't he?" very difficult to answer for those with anthropomorphic gods.

Stay strong and stick with your athiest beliefs: just remember that everything has a real-world cause (like whatever causes Parkinson's) and that it wasn't some whim of God that swept him away from this Earth.

um, yes. life is transitory and temporary - wanting it to be anything else garentees suffering. do you cry when leaves fall? We're only more complicated versions of that same life - we think its passing is beautiful, though. We have all the value of dust...and even dust is made of a swirling intricately complex dance of energy that has surpassing beauty. Nothing has changed.

Many responses to make.

Very interesting outlook on life and suffering, but comparing the falling of the leaves to the slow painful withering of a strong man is two completely different things.

I agree that suffering is necessary to live life, but my grandfather's suffering was quite excessive.

I am not Christian, but I thought I would share this with you. I only hope it gives you some solace.

In the time of sleep this body is as though dead; it does not see nor hear, it does not feel, it has no consciousness, no perception: that is to say, the powers of man have become inactive, but the spirit lives and subsists. Nay, its penetration is increased, its flight is higher, and its intelligence is greater. To consider that after the death of the body the spirit perishes, is like imagining that a bird in a cage will be destroyed if the cage is broken, though the bird has nothing to fear from the destruction of the cage. Our body is like the cage, and the spirit is like the bird. We see that without the cage this bird flies in the world of sleep; therefore if the cage becomes broken, the bird will continue and exist: its feelings will be even more powerful, its perceptions greater, and its happiness increased. In truth, from hell it reaches a paradise of delights, because for the thankful birds there is no paradise greater than freedom from the cage. That is why with utmost joy and happiness the martyrs hasten to the plain of sacrifice.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 326)

Why must the bird burn while the cage is broken?

My own grandfather died a long, mentally-debilitating death. He was a physically strong and religiously devout man.

Your post, as quoted above, seems to be asking "How do you reconcile your notion of God with the reality of suffering?" Please correct me if I have misunderstood this.

If I understood you, then my answer is: I'm reminded of one of the sermons of my pastor (and since I'm recalling this from memory, I'm probably going to butcher his words very badly): "When people suffer tragedies, they sometimes ask 'Why me, Lord? I've been a good Christian! I've been a good Catholic! Why is this happening to me?' Well, suffering is a part of life; we're no fools, we all know that. We face the harsh realities of life every time we step outside those doors [gestures to church doors]. Life can be hard at times, even for good Christians. Look at Our Lord, [gestures to picture of Christ upon the cross] He was the perfect man... and look at what happened to him. Being a good Christian doesn't mean that we're spared from suffering, or that life is all rosy and nice, because it's not. What it does mean is that we are all called upon by Almighty God to keep trying, despite the difficulties, despite the hardships, to go on as best we can."

...

I don't know if I'm anywhere close to answering your question, Vittos.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

You pinpointed my question quite accurately. However, the answer, even though it is quite similar to what I have heard previously, is lacking.

The question is, why is the suffering there? I know that suffering is a part of life, but why is it there in the first place. No man I have ever known has been more deserved of a peaceful death than this man, and he never received it. If there is a heaven, I have no doubt he is there, no matter what God is in control, but he was punishment was excessive.

You pinpointed my question quite accurately. However, the answer, even though it is quite similar to what I have heard previously, is lacking.

The question is, why is the suffering there? I know that suffering is a part of life, but why is it there in the first place. No man I have ever known has been more deserved of a peaceful death than this man, and he never received it. If there is a heaven, I have no doubt he is there, no matter what God is in control, but he was punishment was excessive.



You know, I always wondered why it was that babies cried after they had been born. One possibility that occurred to me was that perhaps the newborn child knows on some fundamental level that, as a newly formed sentient being, it has been detached from heaven, cast into a chaotic and unforgiving world that will try its soul at every turn. Only after a life of continuous trial will peace be found as this small peace of heaven is returned to the fold.

The suffering that is life is everywhere. It is indeed a miracle that humanity can stay afloat amidst it. Those of us who enjoy relative luxury may lose track of this one inescapable constant, but it remains here nevertheless.

For one's body to succumb to a painful death is not punishment. It happens to some and not to others. And I cannot see it as God's will either, as I do not believe in a cruel God.

It is the chaos that is life, the trial we must all edure. As such they do not deserve you and I's ponderous attention, for pain and anguish are as much a part of life as the earth beneath our feet.

If your father was a good man, then he was a good man. How he died cannot take that away. Nothing can.

You pinpointed my question quite accurately. However, the answer, even though it is quite similar to what I have heard previously, is lacking.

The question is, why is the suffering there? I know that suffering is a part of life, but why is it there in the first place. No man I have ever known has been more deserved of a peaceful death than this man, and he never received it. If there is a heaven, I have no doubt he is there, no matter what God is in control, but he was punishment was excessive.


First of all, I'm so sorry your Grandfather suffered so terribly. I am not an Atheist, but I have some of the same conflicts with suffering as you do. Its like the thread I made one time about a horrible child abuse story I read. When someone suffers undeservedly, like your Grandfather or a small child who is a victim of rape, the first thing that pops into my mind is "WHY????" Why on earth did someone so innocent have to suffer? Its like I want to sit down with God and ask him why he didnt intervine. What purpose does it serve? Some argued with me saying that when innocent children or people in general suffer, it is to teach a lesson to others. I dont buy that. I cant see what lesson can be learned by the suffering of a child. I may never get my answers. I may never understand why certain kinds of suffering exist.
The only comfort you can take now, is that his suffering has ended. That doesnt seem like enough I know. One thing that helps me with my anti child abuse crusade is that I try to help children. I have done a lot of volunteer work with orphanages. Going to read strories, raising money for school supplies and school clothes for them. It is a feeling that gives me back more than I could ever give to them.
Children have nothing to do with the loss of your Grandfather, or the disease that he suffered from, but maybe a way you can help yourself deal with it is to get involved with an elder care facility and do some volunteering for the elderly who may be suffering from this disease. So many elderly people are put in nursing homes and forgotten about. Volunteers go and visit those who have no family, read the newspaper to them, even just take them for a spin around the facility in their wheelchair so they can get outside or get some new scenery. I know that it has helped me.....especially when the answers I seek remain unanswered.

You pinpointed my question quite accurately. However, the answer, even though it is quite similar to what I have heard previously, is lacking.

The question is, why is the suffering there? I know that suffering is a part of life, but why is it there in the first place. No man I have ever known has been more deserved of a peaceful death than this man, and he never received it. If there is a heaven, I have no doubt he is there, no matter what God is in control, but he was punishment was excessive.
Right off the top of my head, I'd say it's because God granted us free will, the ability to make our own decisions. Unfortunately, the free will of each person has to contend with the free will of other people as well as the chaotic, and sometimes random, nature of the existence God created.

Why does God not intervene to prevent suffering? I don't know. It's possible that God intervenes in a subtle manner that isn't obvious, but then the logical question comes up: Why does God not intervene in a more overt manner? This also, I cannot answer.

Those who are parents try to raise their children as best they can, to teach them what is right and wrong, good and bad. Eventually, though, a child grows up and a parent must let go, so that the child-become-adult can live their life on their own. To err is human, so to live ones own life must necessarily entail making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. An adult may still keep in contact with his/her parents for the sake of their counsel, but an adult must still live their own life. A child who has their parents do everything for him/her will not grow up.

I sometimes wonder if God operates on a similar principle, but on a much grander scale. Has God backed off and left us to learn on our own? To grow up and be responsible for our own actions? Does God intervene subtly when we pray for His guidance, like a parent who gives counsel to their grown children? All the lessons of history that we have learned, all the advances that we have made, have been accomplished by learning from the tragedies we have suffered, the challenges we have overcome, and the mistakes that we have made. We still remember the lessons taught to us by God through Christ: To love God with all our hearts, all our minds, and all our souls, and to love one another as we love ourselves. Did God teach us these lessons as a starting point, and then leave us with the freedom to learn all other lessons on our own?

These are only vague ramblings on my part. I have not though them through thoroughly.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

If I understood you, then my answer is: I'm reminded of one of the sermons of my pastor (and since I'm recalling this from memory, I'm probably going to butcher his words very badly): "When people suffer tragedies, they sometimes ask 'Why me, Lord? I've been a good Christian! I've been a good Catholic! Why is this happening to me?' Well, suffering is a part of life; we're no fools, we all know that. We face the harsh realities of life every time we step outside those doors [gestures to church doors]. Life can be hard at times, even for good Christians. Look at Our Lord, [gestures to picture of Christ upon the cross] He was the perfect man... and look at what happened to him. Being a good Christian doesn't mean that we're spared from suffering, or that life is all rosy and nice, because it's not. What it does mean is that we are all called upon by Almighty God to keep trying, despite the difficulties, despite the hardships, to go on as best we can."


So true, Jesus was pure but died upon a Cross in tremendous pain. What kept him going? Knowing that his mission was not yet over, that he had a few last things to say before he joined God at his side.

Wow, that sucks.

Why must the bird burn while the cage is broken?

The spirit (bird) does not burn. The cage is left behind in this world. I know you don't believe in the spiritual nature of humans, but your grandfather did. I offer the following not to convert but to share.


God, in His Bounty, has given us a foretaste here, has given us certain proofs of the difference that exists between body, soul and spirit.

We see that cold, heat, suffering, etc, only concern the body, they do not touch the spirit.

How often do we see a man, poor, sick, miserably clad, and with no means of support, yet spiritually strong. Whatever his body has to suffer, his spirit is free and well! Again, how often do we see a rich man, physically strong and healthy, but with a soul sick unto death.

It is quite apparent to the seeing mind that a man's spirit is something very different from his physical body.

The spirit is changeless, indestructible. The progress and development of the soul, the joy and sorrow of the soul, are independent of the physical body.

If we are caused joy or pain by a friend, if a love prove true or false, it is the soul that is affected. If our dear ones are far from us -- it is the soul that grieves, and the grief or trouble of the soul may react on the body.

Thus, when the spirit is fed with holy virtues, then is the body joyous; if the soul falls into sin, the body is in torment!

When we find truth, constancy, fidelity, and love, we are happy; but if we meet with lying, faithlessness, and deceit, we are miserable.

These are all things pertaining to the soul, and are not bodily ills. Thus, it is apparent that the soul, even as the body, has its own individuality. But if the body *66* undergoes a change, the spirit need not be touched. When you break a glass on which the sun shines, the glass is broken, but the sun still shines! If a cage containing a bird is destroyed, the bird is unharmed! If a lamp is broken, the flame can still burn bright!

The same thing applies to the spirit of man. Though death destroy his body, it has no power over his spirit -- this is eternal, everlasting, both birthless and deathless.

As to the soul of man after death, it remains in the degree of purity to which it has evolved during life in the physical body, and after it is freed from the body it remains plunged in the ocean of God's Mercy.

From the moment the soul leaves the body and arrives in the Heavenly World, its evolution is spiritual, and that evolution is: The approaching unto God.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 64)

My grandfather was the greatest man I have ever known. He was a preacher, sat on the chair of school board. He raised five children that all became successful, good human beings. My mother and I spent three years living with him after my father left. Most of my good personality characteristics come from him.

He was also the strongest man I have ever known, until he got Parkinsons. He spent the last two years of his life bedridden, veering inbetween near lucidity and absolute confusion. I cannot even fathom what he went through, but I do know his illness nearly destroyed my grandmother, hurt everyone who knew him very badly, and made it near impossible for me to in the same room with the man who was the closest thing I had to a father. He died a year ago and even now I have to collect myself to keep from crying.

Now, I was an atheist long before all of this transpired, and this did little to affect my beliefs, but I want to know how Christians cope with this sort of thing, and how it would affect your beliefs.
It's a sad way to go, but all of us must kick the bucket one way or another. As I Christian, I would cope with this like any other person, except with the addition of prayer. Anger, grief, denial, etc. Being religious does not change your fundamental, raw emotion. When something that devastating hits, all words and beliefs tend to vanish, and pure pain bubbles to the surface. Only after the initial shock can peace come, and I've found God helps with that. One of the reasons I do believe in him is because...it seems like I can feel Him, y'know? I know that sounds stupid, but when I find myself in the deepest hole, it seems like His powerful arm is on my shoulder, helping me struggle to climb out of the abyss. I'm sorry about your grandfather; all you say about him shows him to be a good man. I can only hope he happily resides with the Lord now, watching over you and your family.

Vittos, I feel for you. In my previous job as a home support worker, I helped a lot of families deal with parents and grandparents living and dying in a fog of confusion, frustration, and often, fear.

I know there is no solace in agreeing that this kind of suffering is a terrible thing. Frankly, I don't understand why we force people to live this way - to drag everyone through pain and loss to its last bitter dregs.

I only know I will not allow myself to die that way. To lose all that I am, to force my family and loved ones to watch as the person I was fades away, leaving only a confused and fearful stranger. I only hope that I do wait too long and lose the ability to choose when to end my life - to choose to die with dignity. And if I do, I hope that someone who loves me will honor my Living Will, and help me to my end.

Vittos, I feel for you. In my previous job as a home support worker, I helped a lot of families deal with parents and grandparents living and dying in a fog of confusion, frustration, and often, fear.

I know there is no solace in agreeing that this kind of suffering is a terrible thing. Frankly, I don't understand why we force people to live this way - to drag everyone through pain and loss to its last bitter dregs.

I only know I will not allow myself to die that way. To lose all that I am, to force my family and loved ones to watch as the person I was fades away, leaving only a confused and fearful stranger. I only hope that I do wait too long and lose the ability to choose when to end my life - to choose to die with dignity. And if I do, I hope that someone who loves me will honor my Living Will, and help me to my end.
I would disagree, Equus. Life is such a precious thing. I'll be dragged into death kicking and screaming, no matter how much pain I'm in. After all, feeling pain is still feeling. Enjoying the glorious maelstrom that is life,

I would disagree, Equus. Life is such a precious thing. I'll be dragged into death kicking and screaming, no matter how much pain I'm in. After all, feeling pain is still feeling. Enjoying the glorious maelstrom that is life,
It is terribly ironic that you don't enjoy sex.

I would disagree, Equus. Life is such a precious thing. I'll be dragged into death kicking and screaming, no matter how much pain I'm in. After all, feeling pain is still feeling. Enjoying the glorious maelstrom that is life,
Isn't that a bit of an assumption? I mean I'm sure that you haven't felt the limits our pain receptors can handle, total sensory deprivation or complete paralysis so until then isn't it a bit too early to say that?

"Men die. Cattle die. One day you too will die.
But I know a thing that never dies.
And that is word fame, well won."

From what you have told me of your grandfather, he was a great guy. If the above is any solace, then you are welcome to it.

As for the various senility conditions (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's etc.) I don't know how xtians cope with the vicious neutrality of the universe. Probably just wrap themselves up in warm, pink, fuzzy spiritual supermen.

If I were diagnosed with a terminal and degenerative disease, with no reasonable hope of recovery, I would most likely kill myself.

I once read something on a similar subject by Edward Abbey, and I'm sorry I don't have an exact quote. He was talking to a cattle rancher who's worst fear was that he would have a heart attack and die alone out in the field. Abbey responded that that didn't sound like a particularly bad way to die. The alternative is to die senile, in a hospital bed, with tubes sticking out of your various bodily orifices.

To say that there is one sole way in which all Christians deal with death is like trying to figure out universal truth; it just doesn't happen.

Personally, I believe in God. As a matter of fact, I love God. But God is imperfect relative to our belief in what is perfect. In a perfect world our loved ones would never die, we'd never experience pain, and we'd never cry. It would always be happy times and sunshine.

But you see, God works on a whole new plane of existence. God is himself perfect. Therefore, His idea of perfection must say that people must die, and there must be some sad times. So you see, to judge God based on what we believe is right is, in itself, wrong.

But that didn't answer your question. Just justifying what I'm about to say.

We never know, and are incapable of understanding, what God wants (and makes happen). As such, we must accept on faith that He is doing what is perfect. It doesn't make logical sense, but that is the reason why we are asked to keep faith.

If I were you, I'd look back and remember my grandfather. Be glad and give praise to God for giving you the gift of such a wonderful and loving man. And understand that through you and your actions your grandfather will live on. The memory of him will be with you forever, and that is perhaps the best thing we as humans can ever expect to have. One of these days you will pass on too, and you will once again be with him, only this time it will be forever.

There is no logical justification for the suffering. But understand that God loved your grandfather as he does all of his creatures, and he will take good care of him forever.

I know it sounds kinda preachy. I also know that it sounds like I'm trying to convert you, which was not my intention. But in order to understand the reactions seen by Christians you must put yourself in their shoes.

Your grandfather was a preacher. Consider what he'd say to somebody else that was suffering. Consider what he might say to you about his own suffering, should he had been able.

Ultimately it is up to you how to deal with it.

To everybody, thank you, you have all been very respectful and have made excellent posts.

To the Christians, I have a deep respect for your faith and your strength and resolution in holding to your beliefs in hard times. Unfortunately, saying "just trust in God" doesn't quite work for me.

To Cogitation, I found your questions on the nature of God, and the possible tests he puts us through as a learning process very interesting. It is a plausible theory.

To those speaking of euthanasia, I would say that the thought of euthanasia takes on a whole new meaning when faced with a legitimate case. Even when the outlook is the bleakest, there is that little part of you that clings to what you used to know, and makes it so hard to even consider that course of action. But with 20/20 hindsight, it would have easily been the wisest course of action for all involved.

Now, I was an atheist long before all of this transpired, and this did little to affect my beliefs, but I want to know how Christians cope with this sort of thing, and how it would affect your beliefs.

Are you asking Christians to rationalise God and suffering? If you are you would seem to be doing it in very strange way(that of course only applies to if you are asking Christians to rationalise God and suffering)

Are you asking Christians to rationalise God and suffering? If you are you would seem to be doing it in very strange way(that of course only applies to if you are asking Christians to rationalise God and suffering)

I only asked what effects it had on one's belief. It is an indirect way of asking how one rationalizes God and suffering, but it is more of a question of what passes through your mind when something like this happens.

I want to know how Christians cope with this sort of thing, and how it would affect your beliefs.

My condolences;

Mature Christians understand that the world is full of evil and not perfect. Being Christian does not give them a 'free pass'. They also understand that in the scope of eternity the present is only a flicker of time. Finally they know their God has promised never to allow them to be challenged with something which they cannot deal with and to stand by them while they are dealing with it.

Satan attempts to push people to that limit and test their resolve and faith. Some people fail to live up to their potential.

Your grandfather must have been an impressive man of faith to have been dealt such a hand and played it with such strength.

Funny part is, I am not really so sure of my own faith - more agnostic than anything else these days. I personally think there is a God, but that much has been lost in translation over the millenia. I think that only the most important truths have been held intact, including what I have shared so far.