NationStates Jolt Archive

Today's world is becoming more and more busy, and now more than ever, it seems we need both sides of a marriage/union to work in order for them to get anywhere.

So the question is...As the world becomes more hectic, will the role of the woman fall further from the home and more towards the workplace. And if this does happen (which I believe it will) would it not be reasonable that women be paid the same as men for any line of work.

Some may argue...

But what about the family? Who's gonna take care of the house and the kids? What about jobs where a woman wouldn't be able to work.

That is a dillema...As kids DO need someone to care for them.

I will leave the debate in your hands.

Today's world is becoming more and more busy, and now more than ever, it seems we need both sides of a marriage/union to work in order for them to get anywhere.

So the question is...As the world becomes more hectic, will the role of the woman fall further from the home and more towards the workplace. And if this does happen (which I believe it will) would it not be reasonable that women be paid the same as men for any line of work.

Some may argue...

But what about the family? Who's gonna take care of the house and the kids? What about jobs where a woman wouldn't be able to work.

That is a dillema...As kids DO need someone to care for them.

I will leave the debate in your hands.

Women do get payed the same amount for the same job as men do dont they? at least in western countries, i mean, there are laws...

Kids need fathers too.
Give men paternal leave and there will be less descrimination against women because they 'might' want kids.
The thing is guys will go for money and women for flexible hours :(

The true role of women today s to give me pleasure and make my lunch! ;)

What about jobs where a woman wouldn't be able to work.

I will leave the debate in your hands.

what jobs are there that women can't do?

Kids need fathers too.
Give men paternal leave and there will be less descrimination against women because they 'might' want kids.
The thing is guys will go for money and women for flexible hours :(

I agree with you.

Kids need fathers too.
Give men paternal leave and there will be less descrimination against women because they 'might' want kids.
The thing is guys will go for money and women for flexible hours :(

everyone in our office works flexible hours. works well for us. and those of us in the office who have responsibilities other than kids (college courses, elderly/sick relatives, club memberships, sports etc) all get a work life balance too. that's what it's all about.

Women in the west may be less tethered to the home than before, but that is certainly not the case for the majority of women in the world, no is it even the case for EVERY western woman.

The whole issue of family is a sticky one, however, because it involves gender roles that are not easily discarded. Even though women are joining the workforce in droves (again, I'm going to confine my discussion to the West), men are still being pressured to be the 'main' provider...the one with the higher income, usually. This often means longer hours. Men are being told that they should pitch in, help with domestic chores, and be an active parent too...but they also don't want to be seen as 'feminine' or 'weak', and unfortunately, with childraising and domestic work still being seen as a MOSTLY female realm, many men don't feel like they are providing enough for their family by taking on such roles. I think a lot of it has to do with status...despite the fact that raising children and doing domestic work is essential, it is unpaid, and often unrecognised. If we really want couples to be able to contribute more in the home, and BOTH help raise the children, we need to give these jobs more status than they have. Anyone, male or female, who does this work, should be able to feel as though that work is worthy.

As for your other question...who is going to actually raise the kids...well, I for one have no problem with dayhomes or daycares...but parents still need to make sure their working hours are conducive to real time with their kids. All their childhood years, kids will be away from their parents for the majority of the day...as soon as they enter school this begins, and often before if the parent is working...but parents are still an essential, and irreplaceable part of their kid's lives...to what extent depends on the parents. I think both parents can work and still raise adjusted children.

Women in the west may be less tethered to the home than before, but that is certainly not the case for the majority of women in the world, no is it even the case for EVERY western woman.

The whole issue of family is a sticky one, however, because it involves gender roles that are not easily discarded. Even though women are joining the workforce in droves (again, I'm going to confine my discussion to the West), men are still being pressured to be the 'main' provider...the one with the higher income, usually. This often means longer hours. Men are being told that they should pitch in, help with domestic chores, and be an active parent too...but they also don't want to be seen as 'feminine' or 'weak', and unfortunately, with childraising and domestic work still being seen as a MOSTLY female realm, many men don't feel like they are providing enough for their family by taking on such roles. I think a lot of it has to do with status...despite the fact that raising children and doing domestic work is essential, it is unpaid, and often unrecognised. If we really want couples to be able to contribute more in the home, and BOTH help raise the children, we need to give these jobs more status than they have. Anyone, male or female, who does this work, should be able to feel as though that work is worthy.

As for your other question...who is going to actually raise the kids...well, I for one have no problem with dayhomes or daycares...but parents still need to make sure their working hours are conducive to real time with their kids. All their childhood years, kids will be away from their parents for the majority of the day...as soon as they enter school this begins, and often before if the parent is working...but parents are still an essential, and irreplaceable part of their kid's lives...to what extent depends on the parents. I think both parents can work and still raise adjusted children.
while i don't plan on adding my two cents, as others have put it better than i would, such as sinuhue, i'm just posting my happiness taht you chose not to leave us, sin. :D

Why is it that women are always the ones blamed for working instead of staying home with the kids? Dad can do it too...

I personally was raised with both parents working full time. My mother took the first year or so off, then had to go back to work, because yes, in today's society it's hard to get by on a single income. What did she do with me during the day? I went to a daycare center. No, not one of those creepy out of the home ones, but one that is basically a school, but for children who aren't yet of school age. And I turned out completely fine. Ended up going into a private school and getting into American University, which I'm pretty proud of. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that if both parents have to work, it isn't a crime to put your children in some kind of day care, so long as they will get something out of it, and that doing so doesn't damage the kids.

the best role for a woman in a marriage is the same as for the man...

whatever each, the husband or the wife, does best, and the other partner as well. Marriage, and any other domestic relationship is a partnership, and for it to work, both must contribute.

For example, I cook, my wife doesn't (occasionally she does, but not very well, but don't tell her..lol), we both do laundry, she does the bathroom, I do the kitchen. I do dishes and trash, she sweeps and dusts.. etc..

My wife is disabled so she stays home with the kids, but my previous wife worked and so did I. But both marriages were partnerships and they worked well in that respect.

Thats the woman's role, and the mans. To be a good partner.

All of the shit the women did in the past, cook shit, all that other shit is automated.

while i don't plan on adding my two cents, as others have put it better than i would, such as sinuhue, i'm just posting my happiness taht you chose not to leave us, sin. :D
Awwww....*blushes*

the best role for a woman in a marriage is the same as for the man...

whatever each, the husband or the wife, does best, and the other partner as well. Marriage, and any other domestic relationship is a partnership, and for it to work, both must contribute.

For example, I cook, my wife doesn't (occasionally she does, but not very well, but don't tell her..lol), we both do laundry, she does the bathroom, I do the kitchen. I do dishes and trash, she sweeps and dusts.. etc..

My wife is disabled so she stays home with the kids, but my previous wife worked and so did I. But both marriages were partnerships and they worked well in that respect.

Thats the woman's role, and the mans. To be a good partner.

The world needs more men like you. Or at least needs more men to mature to level that you have. Too many still think that what they say should be law. That holding doors and pulling out chairs is enough, and the missus should cook, clean, etc. Note: BROAD GENERALIZATION. Yes, I realize this does not apply to all men. And that women aren't exempt.

Moral of the story: I agree, New Shiron, each person's role in a relationship is no more and no less than to be a good partner.

Some may argue...

But what about the family? Who's gonna take care of the house and the kids?

Ever hear of babysitters? Day care?

This is not a new idea. Throughout most of Western history it was only the poorest people who raised their own children.

Moreover, despite protests from the Right that children "need" their mother, there is no scientific evidence that children suffer in any way from spending part of their day with paid secondary caregivers. In fact, there is some evidence that children who begin day care or preschool at an earlier age are better equipped to meet new people in school, and even later in life.

There is no ‘true role’ for women, and there is no ‘true role’ for men. It comes down to individuals and choice.

Some women prefer to stay home with the kids, others choose to work. Some choose not to have kids nor get married. And yes, daycare is always a good option for families in which both parents choose to work. It's personal choice, period.

Why is it that women are always the ones blamed for working instead of staying home with the kids? Dad can do it too...

I personally was raised with both parents working full time. My mother took the first year or so off, then had to go back to work, because yes, in today's society it's hard to get by on a single income. What did she do with me during the day? I went to a daycare center. No, not one of those creepy out of the home ones, but one that is basically a school, but for children who aren't yet of school age. And I turned out completely fine. Ended up going into a private school and getting into American University, which I'm pretty proud of. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that if both parents have to work, it isn't a crime to put your children in some kind of day care, so long as they will get something out of it, and that doing so doesn't damage the kids.

I didn't go to a daycare center, but I had a nanny that took care of me. Got me to school, prepared meals, and did simple household chores. My brothers and I turned out fine, of course I missed the interaction with my parents, but realize now that it was the way things needed to be.

everyone in our office works flexible hours. works well for us. and those of us in the office who have responsibilities other than kids (college courses, elderly/sick relatives, club memberships, sports etc) all get a work life balance too. that's what it's all about.

Oh Where do you work! ( rather green with envy ) I wish it'd catch on more.

Applauds New Shiron and JRV

Last I checked, on average in the U.S., a woman makes 69 cents to a man's dollar.

But what about the family? Who's gonna take care of the house and the kids? What about jobs where a woman wouldn't be able to work.

That is a dillema...As kids DO need someone to care for them.

I will leave the debate in your hands.
What makes the father incapable of taking care of the kids?

If you have a single income family, the income doesn't have to be from a man. It could just as easily be from a woman's earning power.

Why is it that women are always the ones blamed for working instead of staying home with the kids? Dad can do it too...

I personally was raised with both parents working full time. My mother took the first year or so off, then had to go back to work, because yes, in today's society it's hard to get by on a single income. What did she do with me during the day? I went to a daycare center. No, not one of those creepy out of the home ones, but one that is basically a school, but for children who aren't yet of school age. And I turned out completely fine. Ended up going into a private school and getting into American University, which I'm pretty proud of. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that if both parents have to work, it isn't a crime to put your children in some kind of day care, so long as they will get something out of it, and that doing so doesn't damage the kids.
Dad can do it too, but the sad truth is that it's not as well. Woman just have a gift for it, which leads to a huge dilemma. Women are equal to men when it comes to work, so why should they have to stay home? Yet, women are better than men at child raising, so why should men stay home? ARRG! Damn it! There's no solution! WE NEED ROBOTS, DAMMIT! FORGET CURING CANCER! WE NEED ROBOTS!

Last I checked, on average in the U.S., a woman makes 69 cents to a man's dollar.
That's because women take maternal leave, and thus when they enter back into the workforce, the man is usually one to two years ahead in terms of pay. If you compare men and childless women, the childless women actually earn a bit more.

speaking as a married man
the best role for a woman in a marriage is the same as for the man...

whatever each, the husband or the wife, does best, and the other partner as well. Marriage, and any other domestic relationship is a partnership, and for it to work, both must contribute.

For example, I cook, my wife doesn't (occasionally she does, but not very well, but don't tell her..lol), we both do laundry, she does the bathroom, I do the kitchen. I do dishes and trash, she sweeps and dusts.. etc..

My wife is disabled so she stays home with the kids, but my previous wife worked and so did I. But both marriages were partnerships and they worked well in that respect.

Thats the woman's role, and the mans. To be a good partner.

:) Thats exactly how I see it. These things would be better if we went into them without preordained roles and just did what needs to be done.

There should definitely be more options open than there are. Now it seems to be either that the mum stays home or the kids go to daycare all week. Now those are allwell and good for some people, but what about part-time work, reduced hours, flexitime, subsidised daycare, paternity leave etc.

Hmm... I think I'll have to move to Scandinavia. :p

Ooh, and Sinuhue, great post. :)

Ooh ooh, one more thing, Trammwerk is right, I've also read that a woman makes 2/3 what a man would make in the same job. Niiice. That and women are subject to questions like :Do you plan on having kids?" at job interviews...

Last I checked, on average in the U.S., a woman makes 69 cents to a man's dollar.

if it makes you feel any better it used to be worse...but those industries where women are the primary labor force are also well known for lower pay scales...

except RNs, they make big bucks now because there aren't enough of them.