NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering. It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with preserving ones heritage and cultural pride, as long as its not done at the expense of others. I don't think that 'white pride' or 'black power,' necessarily need to be bad things, it just f-cksticks like David Duke, et al that give these terms a bad connotation. I think it would be great if people could learn how to uplift their culture and race without having to put down others. Sound off, Am I full of shit or what?

One should always have pride in oneself, but it should be matched by respect for others.

Does racial pride have to mean racial hatred?
Only if your a pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin colour.

Am I full of shit or what?

Theoretically, no. However, people don't seem to be secure enough in their beliefs and heritage to be able to be proud of it without putting others down. It seems like the more insecure one is, the more they knock down people who are different in order to boost their self-image.

As a result, people or groups who have those sorts of beliefs are saying more about themselves than they would probably like.

Being proud to be white or black or whatever is like claiming to be a feminist - you don't directly state that you hate those outside your group, but you sure as hell give off the impression. Not all people who are proud to be white hate blacks and Jews and whoever else, just as not all feminists hate men; however, enough of both groups are guilty of said infractions that all members of those groups are saddled with that accusation. Stereotyping is hardly all-inclusive, but stereotypes exist because there are people who fit them.

I just think its a shame that things are this way in general. Of course, the French have Academie Francais, and I don't think there very racist, so I believe it is possible, if people want to make it work.

Of course, where does it say that racial pride has to be for your own race?
I'm quite proud in my girlfreind's race.
Don't particularali care for the part that racially makes up 80% of me though.

Racial pride is a silly idea anyway. It's not like being a member of any particular race is some kind of achievement on your behalf.

I'm not talking about being proud of being white/ black/ koolaid/ etc. I'm talking about being proud of your culture, warts and all.

Being proud to be white or black or whatever is like claiming to be a feminist - you don't directly state that you hate those outside your group, but you sure as hell give off the impression.
Fallacy. My stating I like icecream does not give off the impression that I dislike any other particular food. If someone chooses to believe that the fact that I like ice cream means I dont like potatoes, that isnt an impression they derived either from me or my statement. Rather the impression is one that originated with themselves.
Not all people who are proud to be white hate blacks and Jews and whoever else, just as not all feminists hate men; however, enough of both groups are guilty of said infractions that all members of those groups are saddled with that accusation. Stereotyping is hardly all-inclusive, but stereotypes exist because there are people who fit them.
Actually stereotypes primarily exist due to issues related to 'ingroup-outgroup' dynamics, and lazy thinking.

racial pride inherently advocates pride of one's one ethnic background over that of others. If you are proud to be white, you would tend to look at blacks as differnt, even to the point of inferiority. Simply seeing people as different creates a mindset of either supremcey if you pride your self or inferiority if you think of yourself in a negative fashion.

example: a kid who recently left my school (he claimed it was racism but it was really just him failing every class, I know, I had several with him) was very. very proud to be black. As a repercussion of this, he constantly felt persecuted by white people just because of their existance. He was proved to be a fool many times because of his comments and both white and black people attacked as being a racist. He just wrapped himself up in the mantle of 'black pride' and told us all we were just being racist towards him.

Not necessarily, I'm talking more of the culture, not the people.

I don't have a problem with being proud of your culture and history, although I'm not sure if that's racial pride, since 'race' is usually construed to be a much broader term. FFS, according to race theory I'm a Caucasian because I'm of North Indian background.

However, problems come in when you consider your race/ethnic group/whatever somehow superior to others.

Perhaps, I have misclassified this but I don't think so. It seems to me that just cause someone's white, they don't view themselves as the same as another white person. I'm pretty sure that plenty of people in Ireland would resent being lumped in the same group as the British. Which is racism in and of itself, but does show that color is not the main classification, though it is the one that is most readily accessible.

How about we don't care? Does it really matter what our background is?

Yes racial pride= racial hate. Now for all you people full of "pride" go shove all that racist bullshit up your ass.

Thinking that your race is superior is not cool.

Nor is it cool to hate those of another race based on your stereotyping them -- IE, this thought process leads to someone viewing someone of another race whom he's just met as a racist.... by way of jumping to conclusions.

Just because I'm white does not mean that I hate blacks, latinos, etc.

And if a black person is racist, we should call it out and not just sit idly by and nod as a bunch of brain-washed zombies. Racism is terrible no matter who exhibits the symptoms.

Perhaps, I have misclassified this but I don't think so. It seems to me that just cause someone's white, they don't view themselves as the same as another white person. I'm pretty sure that plenty of people in Ireland would resent being lumped in the same group as the British. Which is racism in and of itself, but does show that color is not the main classification, though it is the one that is most readily accessible.
Well that's just semantics. What's more important is that people are accepting (I hate the word tolerance) and respectful of others even in their um... pride.

I sound like some silly idealist. :p


Wait, I AM some silly idealist!

Its a shame that your so close minded to what I think could end a lot of racism. I think probably that you can only respect others' culture when you respect your own, just like its kind of hard to respect others when you don't give a flying fuck about yourself.

Perhaps, I have misclassified this but I don't think so. It seems to me that just cause someone's white, they don't view themselves as the same as another white person. I'm pretty sure that plenty of people in Ireland would resent being lumped in the same group as the British. Which is racism in and of itself, but does show that color is not the main classification, though it is the one that is most readily accessible.
which is why true RACIAL pride is weird. doesnt everyone think their culture is the best? there is nothing wrong wtih being proud to be irish. there is nothing wrong with being proud to be french. but its ODD to have your primary pride being proud to be WHITE. to me, that is such a vague classification that its on a par with being proud to be HUMAN. (no im not saying that only white people are human, im saying the classification of "white" is too meaningless)

so to make yourself proud to be WHITE you have to make all kinds of assumptions about other races. you have to lump together filipinos and pakistanis as "asians" and attribute to them the same "inferior" characteristics. you have to suggest that denzel washington (famous american black actor) and some guy living in the jungles of the congo share the same characteristics because their skin is a similar hue.

yes i do think that having a "racial pride", meaning that my main source of personal pride comes from my skin color, leads to racial hatred.

It's like being a nationalist. Irrational.

If you're part of a culture, and you like that culture, it makes sense to be proud of PARTICIPATING in those ASPECTS of the culture that you like.

But racial pride makes about as much sense as racial shame. You had nothing to do with anyone else's actions. Why should you take the credit or blame for it? It's like jailing a child because it was the result of rape.

It all goes back to those idiotic ideas of original sin and such. They're absolutely idiotic notions.

I'm proud of MY actions. I can be proud of others for what they do. But what do I care what someone's ancestors did?

Now, mind you, I think the cultures I come from are extremely interesting. I enjoy most of the genetic traits they gave me. But I can't be proud of being a Viking or a Native American or a Frank or an Irishman or a caveman, because I'm not THEM.

I'm just me.

Besides that, every 'race', worthless as the term is, has done some effing evil things. Why would you want to identify with that? I mean hell, can they even identify a racial group that doesn't have an ancestor with any connection with enslaving others? We probably did that back before homo sapien. If our background means anything, then we should all be equally proud and ashamed of how spiffy and evil our background is. Because, except for the latest stuff, its the same background.

Yeah. Whee. Racial pride. I have pride that my shrew-like ancestor ate that dinosaur egg. WHOO. YEAH. Google-Great Grandpa went and killed him a trilobite, Ye-AH! I'm so proud! I'm so accomplished because a relative of mine was the first fish sperm!

Meh.

By what right do you have to any pride that you, yourself did not help create? If your black, should you feel proud when someone mention Martin Luther King's name. What did you do for him? If your American, do you take pride in being a diverse nation? how come? what actions did you make to help that occur. If your grandfather invented the combusion engine, how can you be proud of that, you weren't even thought of when he did it?

Pride doesn't necessarily have to link directly with the I. I guess I should have put cultural pride in the post. I just tend to view each culture as a different race, I don't see in terms of black or white.

Only if your a pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin colour.

Each pigment has a purpose and caucasians aren't devils. Black people and Asians are equally as racist.

racial pride inherently advocates pride of one's one ethnic background over that of others.
No it doesnt.
If you are proud to be white, you would tend to look at blacks as differnt, even to the point of inferiority.
I dont see why this is necessarily so.

Simply seeing people as different creates a mindset of either supremcey if you pride your self or inferiority if you think of yourself in a negative fashion.
I believe otherwise.

example: a kid who recently left my school (he claimed it was racism but it was really just him failing every class, I know, I had several with him) was very. very proud to be black. As a repercussion of this, he constantly felt persecuted by white people just because of their existance.
How exactly do you know that ethnic pride was a cause of his persecution complex, and even if it were, does that prove anything about anyone other than the person to whom you refer?

He was proved to be a fool many times because of his comments and both white and black people attacked as being a racist. He just wrapped himself up in the mantle of 'black pride' and told us all we were just being racist towards him.
I dont see this that this example proves or indicates anything particularly relevent to the discussion.

Thinking that your race is superior is not cool.

Nor is it cool to hate those of another race based on your stereotyping them -- IE, this thought process leads to someone viewing someone of another race whom he's just met as a racist.... by way of jumping to conclusions.

Just because I'm white does not mean that I hate blacks, latinos, etc.

And if a black person is racist, we should call it out and not just sit idly by and nod as a bunch of brain-washed zombies. Racism is terrible no matter who exhibits the symptoms.

How about ethnocentric? You honestly dont think that some 3rd world nations are as good as 1st world. 2nd world shouldnt exist since a 3rd world nation is a 2nd if they're communist or if you deserve to be a 1st but communist

Pride doesn't -require- hatred of other groups, but you start off doing something silly, and it's not that hard to keep on finding new bad ideas to follow.

By what right do you have to any pride that you, yourself did not help create? If your black, should you feel proud when someone mention Martin Luther King's name. What did you do for him? If your American, do you take pride in being a diverse nation? how come? what actions did you make to help that occur. If your grandfather invented the combusion engine, how can you be proud of that, you weren't even thought of when he did it?

Pride is also one of the 7 deadly sins.

Let's not drag religion in to this.

How about we don't care? Does it really matter what our background is?

Yes racial pride= racial hate. Now for all you people full of "pride" go shove all that racist bullshit up your ass.

Pride has nothing to do with hate.

Who here (besides the ethnocentric person writing this) is ethnocentric

No, racial pride does not inherently mean racial hatred. As someone has said, it's only Nazis, KKK members and such that give the concept such a bad name.

WOOT I am starting the brown hair pride club. I must take pride in that which I cannot control............. oh wait they have hair dye :p

Let's Flip the queston? if your proud that your Irish and what Irish people have accomplished. Do you feel shame for the actions that the very same people done. If you have pride in your "fill-in-the-blank" group you associate yourself with. Do you feel shame when these people act out in a less than desirable behavior?

WOOT I am starting the brown hair pride club. I must take pride in that which I cannot control............. oh wait they have hair dye :p

You can also bleach your skin, tan it and i guess darken it

I don't think I've ever felt proud of being white. I felt proud to be a Texan. But at least I participated in that. I was born there by accident, but I participated in the culture, and what makes Texas different.(I know, it's a perverse and contrary state) The same applies to being American. There is no white culture, except the force of being the majority. It just seems silly to be proud of something you did nothing to be part of.

I'm rambling. :rolleyes:

Let's Flip the queston? if your proud that your Irish and what Irish people have accomplished. Do you feel shame for the actions that the very same people done. If you have pride in your "fill-in-the-blank" group you associate yourself with. Do you feel shame when these people act out in a less than desirable behavior?

Of course. I'm Irish and think that the British (.1% british somehow) owe Ireland an apology for the act of union 1802 (free the rest of it) and the famine. I am also German. I believe the Germans are one of the most powerful group on earth but i dont like the genocides of the "subhumans" which was started by Hitler and Henriech although most of the germans didnt know about it since it was the elite SS group who killed the prisoners called the Deaths Head. No one really liked them besides Henrich and Hitler.

You can also bleach your skin, tan it and i guess darken it

So who does Micheal Jackson get to be proud of being? :D

Let's Flip the queston? if your proud that your Irish and what Irish people have accomplished. Do you feel shame for the actions that the very same people done. If you have pride in your "fill-in-the-blank" group you associate yourself with. Do you feel shame when these people act out in a less than desirable behavior?

I'm not sure shame is the right word. Eternal frustration, yes. It irritates and frustrates me when Texas is backwards and reactionary. :headbang: It embarasses and makes me want to pull my hair out when the US does the unilateral warmongering. :headbang: But it just makes me want to work harder to prevent the people who ruin my country from screwing it up any further.

So who does Micheal Jackson get to be proud of being? :D

He is proud of being a capitalistic *offensive word* with a nose job that likes walking around nude near little kids *Ah my eyes, they burn with the fury of a thousand quasars* and likes to have a lot of locks on his bedroom door including an alarm activated when the child leaves. Is anyone else sickened?

Each pigment has a purpose and caucasians aren't devils. Black people and Asians are equally as racist.
No they are not!!! They were kings and queens of Egypt before the pigmentally challenged devils of lighter skin colours enslaved them to shine their shoes. Your just to racist to admit it!!!

Yeah, but he had to work to get those things added to his pride list. We're talking free pride here.

"Race" isn't a meaningful concept - it doesn't exist - and racial pride is silly.

And I think being proud of your "culture," is silly, too. At what point do cultures begin and end? Aren't Africans a part of European culture and vice versa? And why should we associate culture with what is basically a folk theory of race?

While all cultures might have some racist element, the consequences of African or Asian racism are drastically different than the consequences of European racism (not that they can be so discretely divided, but for the sake of discussion...). For example, Africa never enslaved and colonized Europe. Whenever someone points out that a few African Americans or what have you are racist, they're missing the point. European Americans weren't fighting for civil rights in the late 60s and no European countries struggled for independence from Africa in the early 60s.

I'm an anarchist, so I really don't identify with any race or nation. The closest thing I have to a culture is socialism/anarchism.

Honestly, Africa needs to focus on dealing with tribalism, not racism. While racism is still an issue for -every culture-, in every direction, there's at least some decent places to go where the racism isn't going to lead to you being treated like an animal.

They were enslaved by rival tribes initially, after all, and still are on occassion. The people who don't like their 'race' (and yeah, absolutely meaningless term) being mistreated need to focus on the worst of it, rather than the fringes, which is back in Africa itself.

No they are not!!! They were kings and queens of Egypt before the pigmentally challenged devils of lighter skin colours enslaved them to shine their shoes. Your just to racist to admit it!!!

I think you are rascist, so far the only rascist ones referring to all whites as devils and non whites as superior

There are hundreds of cultures in this world. I for one, never have, nor never will, dislike anyone for their skin tone...although I may think someones culture is stupid %ss f&ck and their behavior displays it. One can't call me a racist (because skin doesn't directly apply to action), but they can call me a culturist.

Honestly, Africa needs to focus on dealing with tribalism, not racism. While racism is still an issue for -every culture-, in every direction, there's at least some decent places to go where the racism isn't going to lead to you being treated like an animal.

They were enslaved by rival tribes initially, after all, and still are on occassion. The people who don't like their 'race' (and yeah, absolutely meaningless term) being mistreated need to focus on the worst of it, rather than the fringes, which is back in Africa itself.

Even if tribalism is a problem now, up until quite recently Africa was still split between France, Belgium, etc - not rival tribes. And, as thinkers like Frantz Fanon argue, their independence only meant a shift from overt colonial oppression to more subtle postcolonial oppression.

I respect some cultures more than others, but I take people on the basis that they are independent of them. Sadly that's not always true.

There are hundreds of cultures in this world. I for one, never have, nor never will, dislike anyone for their skin tone...although I may think someones culture is stupid %ss f&ck and their behavior displays it. One can't call me a racist (because skin doesn't directly apply to action), but they call me a culturist.

How do you determine that?

Agreed.

Of course, ultimately, I judge on the individual. Culture and the like just lets you know what to NOT say, so that you can talk to someone long enough to learn who they are.

I don't think anyone exists outside of culture &, as such, I don't think there's any way to objectively evaluate a culture...

Even if tribalism is a problem now, up until quite recently Africa was still split between France, Belgium, etc - not rival tribes. And, as thinkers like Frantz Fanon argue, their independence only meant a shift from overt colonial oppression to more subtle postcolonial oppression.

That's not racism, that's culturalism.

I agree that the Europeans need to get the heck out of the country, but that's politics, not a social matter. The Europeans do that to -eachother-, too.

However, if you actually get the tribes to stop doing negative things to each other (Appearantly the Masai warriors, now that they're outlawed, like to live in secret groups, kidnapping kids to keep their numbers up... not sure how old the book is, but that kind of thing has to STOP).

An interesting perspective I've seen is that the fact that the tribes are encouraged to remain as similar to their original ways as possible, it makes it harder for them to shoo away the invaders squatting on their land.

Of course, I can understand them not wanting to get involved in "Modern Civilization" styles, considering they keep getting missionaries thrown at them...

Let's Flip the queston? if your proud that your Irish and what Irish people have accomplished. Do you feel shame for the actions that the very same people done. If you have pride in your "fill-in-the-blank" group you associate yourself with. Do you feel shame when these people act out in a less than desirable behavior?

If I was Irish, yes I would.

How do you determine that?

I don't understand the question completely...let me give you an example.

All asian people aren't the same. But, you'll find sub-cultures within them. Some asians might be highly out going and very active, while others might be very homy and isolative.

I live in the bay area, and I've lived among asian people my whole life. I've had very close friends that were asian, and some just in a friendly manner. The sub-culture that has evolved in my area is specific to a trend. Similiar to you seeing all children dressing the same.

Specific things which breed from eachother, and influence others to become similiar, is indeed a culture in birth. For some of the asian people I've met,...particularly Chinese people...I've found that many of them can be described as: very homy, stubborn, race-exclusive, and inclined to study.

It's a trend, that I don't find all together appealing. I don't dislike all of those things, but I find it a bit unnerving that it actually exists as a trend, and as a sub-culture. In other words,...once a person absorbs the persona of the collective (which all of us do to some point), then they can be described with a certain culture, and be judged by it. A race tells you nothing, but behaviors tell you quite a bit.

Cultures aren't permanent within anyone of us, and can be changed. I hope that answers your question.

I think you are rascist, so far the only rascist ones referring to all whites as devils and non whites as superior
Oh!!! Now you want to say that the pigmentally challenged devils of lighter skin colour are not all that bad afterall eh?? Your a bigot!!! Your probably one of them!!! Bend on keeping the true rulers of this world down to pick your cotton for you!!!

Specific things which breed from eachother, and influence others to become similiar, is indeed a culture in birth. For some of the asian people I've met,...particularly Chinese people...I've found that many of them can be described as: very homy, stubborn, race-exclusive, and inclined to study.

It's a trend, that I don't find all together appealing. I don't dislike all of those things, but I find it a bit unnerving that it actually exists as a trend, and as a sub-culture. In other words,...once a person absorbs the persona of the collective (which all of us do to some point), then they can be described with a certain culture, and be judged by it. A race tells you nothing, but behaviors tell you quite a bit.


I'm part Chinese and currently live in mainland China, so I thought I might say something about the pressure to conform in Chinese society.

What you are seeing in Chinese culture is arguably more than a "trend," but a cultural mandate. China has has for about a thousand high-pressured academic exams that mean life or death to a student -- if you fail said exam, you can find yourself a farmer versus a diplomat. The pressure to do well in one's education is so intense that people are forced to conform to its standard, and even parents who immigrate to other countries are indoctrinated with the pressure to study even in societies where those high-pressure exams don't exist.

In China, academic excellence means a less-than-menial job, though by no means are well-educated guaranteed to get high-paying jobs. You excel to survive in China, not to excel. Most Chinese choose security over wealth (though that is changing in China's fast-paced environment) because great success usually involves great risk.
In a society like America where some of the highest-quality educational institutions in the world exist, the pressure to do well academically has a noticeable result if all goes as planned. There is no need for Chinese familes to change their long-held traditions of excessive study -- in fact they expect even BETTER results if they continue to pressure their children. Chinese parents expect their children to do well so that they guarantee their OWN security by having wealthy kids who will take care of them. This is a NECESSITY in China, where no social services exist for the elderly and where children must care for their parents. Again, why stop the trend if it works...? BTW, I don't agree with this, I simply recognize that it exists.

As for the insular nature of Chinese culture...well, mainland China is the motherland of isolationism and cultural insularity. It was a political policy in China many times over, even recently (note the Cultural Revolution) and the results of it are still felt despite China's "opening up." Again, it does not surprise me that many Chinese still hold on to that insularity when they come to other countries. It's how they get taught.

I also think that many mainland Chinese are inherently insecure about their culture because of their economic status as compared to other "big" Asian countries like Japan and South Korea, as well as their satelites Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong (no, I am NOT getting into a Taiwan discussion here!). Many react with nationalistic sentiment, which I believe is a distraction from dealing with China's very serious inherent problems. China is a very interesting country with many great things in it as any country has, but it's not the superpower is wants to be, nor is it "developing" in the ways it wants to -- i.e. having political respect, and that is serving as a blow to Chinese pride, which runs deep. I think that pride is misplaced in many instances, and the effects are being seen even in old diasporal communities.

There seems to be very little compromise for most Chinese diasporal peoples about how to be Chinese -- either you are part of this more isolated culture, or you assimilate and marry someone of the dominant group, as over HALF of Chinese-Americans do (I actually think it's approaching 70% now.) I think total assimilation is wrong too, but I'm looking at a culture that deals in extremes. People who toe the grey areas seem to be few, and if they do, they are regarded with suspicion on both sides.

It's sad.

Ge-Ren, Hapa Observer

"Race" isn't a meaningful concept - it doesn't exist - and racial pride is silly.
I think it's more accurate to say that the race is a concept that has meaning, but that the meaning is contrary to biological facts. Unless there is some reason to do otherwise, for the purposes of furthering a discussion, I translate race to ethnicity. There are occassions where the distinction is materially relevent, but in this particular context, I think reading 'racial pride' as meaning 'ethnic pride' allows the discussion that I believe the original poster intended to initiate, to proceed without being bogged down in arguments about the soundness of the concept 'race'.

And I think being proud of your "culture," is silly, too.
I dont.

At what point do cultures begin and end?
They dont, that is why being proud of 'my' culture is not logically consistent with not being proud of all human culture.

Aren't Africans a part of European culture and vice versa? And why should we associate culture with what is basically a folk theory of race?
Race has always been associated with culture, in fact race was originally posited as a means of explaining certain things that we now understand as being better explained by culture.

While all cultures might have some racist element, the consequences of African or Asian racism are drastically different than the consequences of European racism (not that they can be so discretely divided, but for the sake of discussion...).
I'm not convinced that this is the point. 'Racism' can be hurtful, unless there is some benefit at least equal to the harm, it's not a good thing, in fact it's a bad thing.

For example, Africa never enslaved and colonized Europe.
I dont see this as relevent.

Whenever someone points out that a few African Americans or what have you are racist, they're missing the point.
Are they?

European Americans weren't fighting for civil rights in the late 60s and no European countries struggled for independence from Africa in the early 60s.
I think this misses the point entirely.

Even if tribalism is a problem now, up until quite recently Africa was still split between France, Belgium, etc - not rival tribes. And, as thinkers like Frantz Fanon argue, their independence only meant a shift from overt colonial oppression to more subtle postcolonial oppression.
Then what about Ethiopia? Never a colony. Heck, they kicked out the coloniers almost on their own. First the Portugese and later the Italians. And still it's just as shitty a place as the rest of the continent.

Then what about Ethiopia? Never a colony. Heck, they kicked out the coloniers almost on their own. First the Portugese and later the Italians. And still it's just as shitty a place as the rest of the continent.

Ethiopia has a history of internal ethnic conflict, and the monarchy tried to solve it in the 19th century by putting ALL of its resources into Addis Ababa, the capitol. Addis Ababa in and of itself is not so bad, but the rest of the country is crap because the top-down attitude the capitol has. It's pretty damn clear how Ethiopia shot itself in the foot. Eritrea seceeded in part because of this policy -- but it's doing the same thing in Asmara that Ethiopia does in Addis Ababa. Extreme centralization is a killer.

Ge-Ren

For example, Africa never enslaved and colonized Europe.
As a whole. No of course not. Neither did Europe as a whole colonize Africa. But the Muslims that invaded Spain did come from Morocco. Which happens to be in Africa.

I'm part Chinese and currently live in mainland China, so I thought I might say something about the pressure to conform in Chinese society.

What you are seeing in Chinese culture is arguably more than a "trend," but a cultural mandate. China has has for about a thousand high-pressured academic exams that mean life or death to a student -- if you fail said exam, you can find yourself a farmer versus a diplomat. The pressure to do well in one's education is so intense that people are forced to conform to its standard, and even parents who immigrate to other countries are indoctrinated with the pressure to study even in societies where those high-pressure exams don't exist.

In China, academic excellence means a less-than-menial job, though by no means are well-educated guaranteed to get high-paying jobs. You excel to survive in China, not to excel. Most Chinese choose security over wealth (though that is changing in China's fast-paced environment) because great success usually involves great risk.
In a society like America where some of the highest-quality educational institutions in the world exist, the pressure to do well academically has a noticeable result if all goes as planned. There is no need for Chinese familes to change their long-held traditions of excessive study -- in fact they expect even BETTER results if they continue to pressure their children. Chinese parents expect their children to do well so that they guarantee their OWN security by having wealthy kids who will take care of them. This is a NECESSITY in China, where no social services exist for the elderly and where children must care for their parents. Again, why stop the trend if it works...? BTW, I don't agree with this, I simply recognize that it exists.

As for the insular nature of Chinese culture...well, mainland China is the motherland of isolationism and cultural insularity. It was a political policy in China many times over, even recently (note the Cultural Revolution) and the results of it are still felt despite China's "opening up." Again, it does not surprise me that many Chinese still hold on to that insularity when they come to other countries. It's how they get taught.

I also think that many mainland Chinese are inherently insecure about their culture because of their economic status as compared to other "big" Asian countries like Japan and South Korea, as well as their satelites Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong (no, I am NOT getting into a Taiwan discussion here!). Many react with nationalistic sentiment, which I believe is a distraction from dealing with China's very serious inherent problems. China is a very interesting country with many great things in it as any country has, but it's not the superpower is wants to be, nor is it "developing" in the ways it wants to -- i.e. having political respect, and that is serving as a blow to Chinese pride, which runs deep. I think that pride is misplaced in many instances, and the effects are being seen even in old diasporal communities.

There seems to be very little compromise for most Chinese diasporal peoples about how to be Chinese -- either you are part of this more isolated culture, or you assimilate and marry someone of the dominant group, as over HALF of Chinese-Americans do (I actually think it's approaching 70% now.) I think total assimilation is wrong too, but I'm looking at a culture that deals in extremes. People who toe the grey areas seem to be few, and if they do, they are regarded with suspicion on both sides.

It's sad.

Ge-Ren, Hapa Observer


Thanks for your more objective view on this...greatly appreciated. Honestly, that's why I like America so much, because I can find so many different people do deal with, and I don't have to completely conform to any set of standards. But as you say...I don't think things should be taken to the extreme. There's a great value in other cultures, and I would be too one-sided to say there isn't.

I think it's great to have pride in your heritage, just remember that you're heritage isn't necessarily better than the next person's. There is no better or worse, just different, and I think we should be proud of what makes us unique.