NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering what people think of them. The reason I want to know is that Germany is going to introduce tuition fees for the first time. For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester. So far education was free of charge. But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester. It's causing pretty big waves.
So what do you think of tuition fees? Not if they should be introduced in Germany or not. But in general.

I'm against them. It's not up to the students to pay for their goverments' economic misstakes. No problem with fees for long-time students, but not for everyone.

But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester
What? Who?

In the states, tuition has gotten way out of control I pay thousands in loan money to get through college in hopes that I have chosen a lucrative major and can somehow pay all that crap back.

I was wondering what people think of them. The reason I want to know is that Germany is going to introduce tuition fees for the first time. For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester. So far education was free of charge. But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester. It's causing pretty big waves.
So what do you think of tuition fees? Not if they should be introduced in Germany or not. But in general.

For what level of education?

I presume you are referring to university undergraduate courses. If so, then I believe tuition fees to be fair, provided there is a way of deferring their payment until you have finished the course. (Student loan system in the UK)

Will they be means tested?

What about post graduate courses?

there are no tuition fees for students in Ireland, unless you're repeating a year the government pays them for you. but there is a registration fee in the college itself.

I support free education.

My undergraduate university degree will probably cost me around the figure of $10,000 AUD, on a government loan system...not including books, amenities fees, etc. I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where it is no real burden upon me, but many aren't so lucky.

The main deal, however, is that i'm not guaranteed a job after my degree.

Tuiton is terrible in the States. When I go out of state next year for U of Florida, Im going to be paying close to $22,000 in tuition alone. Quite sucky.

500 euros is a fairly modest tuition, 2500 is way too much if the goal is to encourage people to get an education. my son pays $1300/semester but there is financial aid for those who cant afford that much.

i see nothing wrong with making students pay SOMETHING toward their education but it shouldnt be so much that its a burden to those who have to pay it themselves.

do you have to pay books and fees also?

Tuition isn't so bad if you're paying a fixed rate within your income. But when the tuition rises almost $1000 over two years, then is really begins to suck. :headbang:

the government already subsidises education very, very heavily. i seem to remember reading somewhere that they pay out around £8,000 for every uni student, so i think a £1000 contribution towards that is quite fair. i resent and dislike paying it, personally, but at least its still subsidised at all.


student loans is the one that gets me. i would so much prefer student grants, but that's a whole other issue

I'm against them.
What a suprise. :D

What? Who?
Senator Jörg Dräger, Hamburg.
I read it in the Spiegel Special. Page 122.
And there is a thread about it on
http://www.politikforum.de/
In the Bildung, Gesundheit, Sport forum.

For what level of education?

I presume you are referring to university undergraduate courses. If so, then I believe tuition fees to be fair, provided there is a way of deferring their payment until you have finished the course. (Student loan system in the UK)

Higher education in general if I'm not mistaking.



Will they be means tested?
What do you mean?

What about post graduate courses?
As far as I know they will be charged the same amount.

do you have to pay books and fees also?
Uuum in Germany I think you don't have to pay for books. As a result there are often several students who have to share one book. Which is often outdated. Of course you can buy your own set but thats not free.
In the Netherlands you have to pay for your own books.

500 euros is a fairly modest tuition, 2500 is way too much if the goal is to encourage people to get an education.
Actually I think it could be an "encouragement" for students to finish their study in time. Cause Germany always had eternal students. The Netherlands used to have them too. Although 2500 per semester is too much. Somewhere between 1000 and 1500 a year would be fair IMO.
my son pays $1300/semester but there is financial aid for those who cant afford that much.
I assume you mean loans? Thats whats getting many students riled up as well. The idea to make a debt before they even started out in working live.

i see nothing wrong with making students pay SOMETHING toward their education but it shouldnt be so much that its a burden to those who have to pay it themselves.
I agree.

Tuition fees are a terrible idea. Not only to they restrict the financial future of students, both in cases of what courses to chosoe but also in the choices made after graduation. A gu who went to university with a friend of mine wound up owing £24,000 and that doesn't incluse his mortgage.

People end up in a situation where they have no freedom because they need to find a way to pay off this debt. This restricts thier potential to engage in risk taking activities such as new buisnesses and unpaid work that may have benefits in the future. Tuition fees are just bad for everyone.

I'm for them and i don't particularly see what the problem is. Some people tend to spout that they're 'exclusionist' but that's rubbish; at least in England they're means tested meaning that you pay as much as you can afford.
I'm not a massive fan of the idea of student debt but when the average income of a post-graduate is compared to that of someone who leaves at 16/18, i don't think the debt is that severe.
Ultimately i'm a fan of the right to free education, but i dont think it should be a priotiry: my priority is that the education be available for all, which it pretty much is. The money (relatively small amount) made from education can be spent improving the education system, possibly when it's at a sustainable high standard we remove tuition fees.

there is a means-tested grants system in place here, taking into account both income and distance from the institution you are attending. there is one scheme run by the county council for higher degree courses and one run by the vocational education commitee (VEC) for ordinary degrees, diplomas and certs.

there is a means-tested grants system in place here, taking into account both income and distance from the institution you are attending. there is one scheme run by the county council for higher degree courses and one run by the vocational education commitee (VEC) for ordinary degrees, diplomas and certs.
I think we have something like that in the Netherlands. But it is for repayment after your study.

I think we have something like that in the Netherlands. But it is for repayment after your study.
in that case would it be more of a loan?

I support free education.

My undergraduate university degree will probably cost me around the figure of $10,000 AUD, on a government loan system...not including books, amenities fees, etc. I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where it is no real burden upon me, but many aren't so lucky.

The main deal, however, is that i'm not guaranteed a job after my degree.


That's the good thing about free education. Everyone has an equal chance from the start but only those that have better averages or that are more competent manage to succeed.


In the capitalist system, where almost only the rich get the good education (or those few with scolarships), shit is bound to happen.

That's the good thing about free education. Everyone has an equal chance from the start but only those that have better averages or that are more competent manage to succeed.

That's right.

In the capitalist system, where almost only the rich get the good education (or those few with scolarships), shit is bound to happen.

As a matter of fact, over here, if you elect not to take the government loan and pay full-fees (In the tens of thousands of dollars range) the entrance scores required to get into university are drastically reduced for you. Life is easy, if you can bribe.

I would love to see post-secondary education be free, but I don't think that we could realistically switch to a free system from the system we now have in Canada and maintain the quality of the education.

Some of the people who've posted before this have proposed some interesting ideas that I think could lessen the burden on students and help ensure that those deserving of a spot at universities can go. A sliding scale where tuition is based on what you can afford is a great idea -- perhaps grants could be used to make up for the rest. I think replacing much or all of loans with grants is also a great idea. I just finished university, and I'm $50,000 CAD in debt from my education. I worked my way through school as well. If you can find a job, most of them don't pay enough for entry-level positions to make it feasible to pay my loans off quickly. And it really pisses me off that the government is making a ton of money off my debt -- I think the interest rates on student loans should be cut, and perhaps the loan repayments should be deferred until students have hit a certain income level or a few years have passed since graduation, whichever comes first.

in that case would it be more of a loan?
Umm not sure...
In the Netherlands you pay tution fees and for your books. Roughly 2400 a year. (you can take a loan on that) And you get student grants. About 400 a month. Those are free by default. You can take a loan to increase it. As long as you finish your degree in time that is a gift. If you take longer, then the monthly loans have to be repayed. And in that case they look at how much you make. You take a draagkrachtmeting as they call it. If you can't pay they'll postpone. And then the interst rate will increase your debt. I don't even want to know how much I owe by now.

When I was an undergraduate at the City College of New York, tuition was around US$3,400 a year. Right now, it's US$4,000 a year for New York State Residents and roughly double for anyone from outside the state. This is considered low-to-mid range in the United States. Really expensive colleges and universities are around US$40,000 to US$50,000.

My opinion: Improvements are needed in the American educational system on all levels.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

I am $80,000 in debt and I still have a year of school left. My only hope is Bush's reckless fiscal irresponsiblity destroys the economy causing us to undergo a period of hyper inflation rivaling Germany's post World War I situation, where people had to bring wheelbarrows of deutchmarks to the market to buy a slice of bread. What really sucks nuts is that in america student loans cannot be erased by filing for bankruptcy like most debts. Lousy capitalist system!

Umm not sure...
In the Netherlands you pay tution fees and for your books. Roughly 2400 a year. (you can take a loan on that) And you get student grants. About 400 a month. Those are free by default. You can take a loan to increase it. As long as you finish your degree in time that is a gift. If you take longer, then the monthly loans have to be repayed. And in that case they look at how much you make. You take a draagkrachtmeting as they call it. If you can't pay they'll postpone. And then the interst rate will increase your debt. I don't even want to know how much I owe by now.
sounds like a fair way to run grants

First of all, are we talking about uni? Secondary school? That might make a difference in my response.

In the U.S., it has become more and more of an expectation that kids go to university after they graduate from high school (of course, we call it college, but that's neither here nor there). The perception probably around the time I was born was that attending university was a priviledge that some people got and kids who weren't quite "smart enough" worked right after high school and could still get a job that would let them feed a family and put a roof over their heads.

Nowadays, a university education is being seen as essential for a viable working future. If you don't have at least an associate's degree (two year college), you probably won't get very far, and even then an associate's degree can help you in only certain fields. More and more, a bachelor's degree (four year college) is required, and even that is going to be eclipsed by a need to go to graduate school.

Why did I go through all that? Except for private schools at the secondary and pre-secondary levels, education in the U.S. is free right up until a student finishes high school. To get to college, a student either has to pay out of his own pocket (or his parents' bank accounts) or get scholarships or grants (which they don't have to pay back) or loans to pay for uni. It's been an expectation that students have to pay for their tuition here in the states, so the idea of not paying for higher education is foreign to me. I'm sure it's controversial if you never paid for it before, though.

For the record, I think forcing people to pay for their education is a bad idea. Room and board, I can see, but not tuition.

Will they be means tested?

What do you mean?


Well means testing is an evaluation of the ability of the person/family to pay. If the family lives in a wealthy suburb, has three cars, and takes holidays abroad five times a year. Is it not reasonable to ask them to contribute to the education of their children.
However if the family is a single divorcee, who works in manual labour to support four children. Has a bicycle and holidays are a long forgotten dream, then asking them to pay is anther matter entirely.

A means test is an examination of the financial status of the family, and an assessment of their ability to pay.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that education should be free. Of course the basics should be free, such as reading, writing, basic sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) and basic math should all be free and mandatory. But only because having this basic knowledge only helps the society. Why should some kid who wants to "try out" quantum physics, or try to understand L'Etranger (Camus), or give the Theory of Relativity a spin, do so for free? What happens if the kid gets out of school and 2 or 3 years later, finds out, "Einstein was right, no need for me to keep doing this." So the kid goes back to school and sucks up more free money (from your tax money mind you) to learn underwater-basket weaving? You can get through life with a secondary (high school) education. You can own a home, own a couple of cars, raise some kids and even take a vacation every now and then. Your cars may not BMWs or Lexus. You may only have a 3 bedroom home on a 1 acre lot, and you might have to drive to your vacation, but if you want more, put more into it. I don't want to pay for you under-water basket weaving class.

WHAT a shame for germany!!

I have always been advocating FREE post secondary for canadians for a long time.

Education is the great equalizer in our society, it allows the poor to begin to improve themselves, which leads to a better job, more money and a better standard of living....

Free Education?? O_o

Definitely not available for post secondary education here... Although I like the idea, it only brings me to think that if education becomes free, would it not be reasonable to say that the quality of the education is degraded as well? Take for example the mention (by someone on here) that they had to use outdated books.

Personally, if the tuition rates are reasonable per year, then it is fair to ask students to pay for an education of quality. You get what you pay for, so to speak. However, I am thoroughly disgusted with the high tuition rates that are seen commonly all across the United States. I am attending the University of North Florida, and rates here are roughly $1200 USD for tuition, $2240 for housing (the most expensive housing on campus available, which I coincidentially am in now). Compared to other universities across the country, this is very reasonable. Food is available through meal plans that can go as high as $1400 a semester. Personally, I have a job, and get my food that way. I was also smart to choose a job in a restaurant, where I can get free food often :)

For all you Germans freaking out over 400 Euro tuition, you have it made for you. I am curious though, what is the average income of college students over there in a single pay period? Around here, I get roughly $400 a paycheck, working only 35 hours a week.

That whole means testing y'all were talking about earlier looks like a very good idea. There is a sort of system like that here in the States, but with me, they say that my parents can contribute $3000 a year. Considering that my parents rely on my mother's income, a one story house on a 3/4 acre lot in a medium income area. Basically speaking, I'm on my own. My first year was paid off in scholarships, my second year with a loan, and this year, my grandmother was kind enough to support me, as long as I kept my grades up, and had a job to help pay.

Personally, I will be about US$100,000 in debt when I finish my undergraduate degree.

I was wondering what people think of them. The reason I want to know is that Germany is going to introduce tuition fees for the first time. For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester. So far education was free of charge. But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester. It's causing pretty big waves.
So what do you think of tuition fees? Not if they should be introduced in Germany or not. But in general.

Is it all states or just the CDU ones?

Is it all states or just the CDU ones?
So far yes. 11 of them want fees. The 5 that are ruled by the SPD reject them. The SPD on the other hand wants 5 to 10 elite universities. How they want to achieve that with only 1,9 billion in extra funding is a mysterie to me.

Well means testing is an evaluation of the ability of the person/family to pay. If the family lives in a wealthy suburb, has three cars, and takes holidays abroad five times a year. Is it not reasonable to ask them to contribute to the education of their children.
However if the family is a single divorcee, who works in manual labour to support four children. Has a bicycle and holidays are a long forgotten dream, then asking them to pay is anther matter entirely.

A means test is an examination of the financial status of the family, and an assessment of their ability to pay.
Not in Germany so far. But I know they do it here in the Netherlands untill a certain age. Not sure what age.

If not the student, who SHOULD pay for the education?

I suspect most of the posters (and people on this forum) are students.

I paid my way through school at about $5000 CAD/year because I wanted the education.

How much of my income should I contribute to allow a bunch of freeloaders to take their basketweaving diplomas?

<chuckles and tosses the pin after the grenade>

I was wondering what people think of them. The reason I want to know is that Germany is going to introduce tuition fees for the first time. For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester. So far education was free of charge. But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester. It's causing pretty big waves.
So what do you think of tuition fees? Not if they should be introduced in Germany or not. But in general.

Puh. We already have the damn things in the UK. Mine are equivalent to about 1600 Euros per year, and that's after my LEA has paid a portion for me.

Considering we used to get student grants (i.e. until just before I started university), naturally I find it quite frustrating. Especially since those tossers in the labour party who took away student grants got free money to cover their education. Bastards.

So, no, I won't be voting labour. That wasn't the question? Well, er...

If not the student, who SHOULD pay for the education?

I suspect most of the posters (and people on this forum) are students.

I paid my way through school at about $5000 CAD/year because I wanted the education.

How much of my income should I contribute to allow a bunch of freeloaders to take their basketweaving diplomas?

<chuckles and tosses the pin after the grenade>
Without baskets where would you put your groceries in a stylish manner. Think about that.

I dont think school should be free, but I DO think the tuition needs to be reduced. Many mroe students would go to college if the rates were not so high. Education pays, but first you have to go broke before getting it. I was accepted to Asbury College in my home state, and I had to refuse because I could not pay for it. I made the grades, I scored high in the ACT and i was accepted to a first rate school, and yet I was not able to go simply because I did not have the money. Does that sound right? It bothers me that education is so important but comes at such a high price. Im currently at another university, but that is still roughly 6 thousand a year. If college tuition was lower there would be more students recieving a higher education.

I pay about 25.000 ISK per semester but the government pays something on the order of 450.000 ISK per student, in all it costs 475.000 ISK per semester to be in school here.
I am going to school in America next year and will pay about $31.000 for the year.
Tuition is bad but it has it's good points too, it offers better educational options for egsample.

309.158 EUR for a semester. Not bad.

All I want to know now is: Where can I take this course in Underwater Basket Weaving for free? It sounds like fun. :D

For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester.

Bwahahahaha!

Try $25,000 per semester, at the school I went to. Btw, my parents contributed $0 to that.

Did I spend all my time studying instead of goofing off? You bet (when I wasn't working to pay for it). Best decision I ever made, too.

I only went to college for three and a half years. And lets just say I am, um, considerably in debt. A lot.

(RANT: My parents have been saving money for my brother to go to college ever since he was born (btw...he probably isnt even going to go) but they did not save a dime for me. Thanks a lot mom and pop).

Due to high enrollment in our Underwater Basket Weaving class, we have decided not only to provide 2 more sessions, but we will also replace the current instructor with a more experienced professor. This new professor will be able to not only provide you with the skills to create a basket for grocery shopping, but also one that can be used to carry your everyday grains. This is a big improvement to the course as this will provide you with tools that may land you better jobs in the Underwater Basket Weaving Industry. Another improvement on the course is that each student will become a certified diver, so that you can make more basket underwater at a time. To help cover these expenses to improve this class offered to you, we will be required to pay $105 per credit (this is a 3 credit class). Also there are other fees to help pay for the equipment, with all expenses and tuiton for the semester totaling $1950. This price tag is nothing compared to the income that this trade will provide you.

So pass by the student enrollment center and sign up for your Underwater Basket Weaving course.


Next year, we hope to provide a class to all the students who wondered, "Why do I/my girlfriend keep getting pregnant? And what can I do to stop it?" This class will be offered free of charge.

Tuition fees for undergrads suck. I mean, then the longer, higher fee'd courses will only be available to those who can afford it.

Then we end up with only rich doctors, for example, who won't, by and large, work in poor areas. Thus exacerbating the lack of services to some areas...

Here we have a system where an undergrad can defer all payments and pay them back in taxes once your income reaches a certain threshhold. All this means I will have $40 000 + in debt when I finish my degree. Woot. The government and the universities also just agreed to increase fees AND introduce full-fee paying local places, which means that rich kids who didn't make the cut to get into med, law etc can pay their way. Hooray. (And don't get me started on private med schools...)

Tuiton is terrible in the States. When I go out of state next year for U of Florida, Im going to be paying close to $22,000 in tuition alone. Quite sucky.

ONLY $22k for out of state? that's not that bad my friend. U of Wisconsin INSTATE is around 24k. Out of state is around 30-35. You got off pretty light.

Rip off Britain.
Next year I'm going to KCL and I'm so glad I get in before the rules change.
UNDERGRADUATE
Home/EU status
The Government asks that home students contribute up to a maximum of £1,150 (for the academic year 2004-2005) towards their tuition costs, depending on personal circumstances. For more information, contact your local education authority (LEA), or the Department for Education and Employment (DFEE): www.dfee.gov.uk/studentsupport
Overseas students (full-time)
Classroom-based subjects £9,920 (2004), estimated £10,220 for 2005
Laboratory-based subjects £12,405 (2004), estimated £12,775 for 2005
Clinically-based subjects £23,070 (2004), estimated £23,765 for 2005
King’s College London welcomes the recognition by government that a large funding gap exists in British higher education, and accepts that the proposals included in the Higher Education Bill currently offer the best prospect of narrowing that gap. The College notes that, under the provisions of the Bill, no home or EU student will be required to pay a fee in advance, and that the poorest 30% of students will receive much increased support from public funding while they are attending university. However, the College is conscious that the proposals of the Bill will not meet the full cost of the highest quality research-led teaching, and therefore expects to charge the maximum permissible fee of £3000 per annum for all its programmes.
Yea, £3000 year one, £3500 for year two and £4000-£4750 for 3 (and 4 if relevent)
On top of that there's accommodation for one year...self-catering:
Stamford Street Apartments (yr 2003) total fee was: £3,735.16.

This is all up front. That's the only advantage of the new system, it would be paying in arrears.

500 Euros isn't anything to get upset about. Tuition in the U.S. is ridiculous; I'll be US$50,000+ in debt by the end of my undergraduate degree, and I'm entering into a post-graduate program so I can become a teacher - who, by the way, will be paid quite terribly; even worse since I intend to work in areas where poverty/poor education is a problem. By this, one might infer that the way our system is set up, that the brightest minds out of college will be going to more affluent areas that can help them pay off their debt, continuing the brain drain in the areas that it hurts most. Smart. Rich get richer, poor get poorer. And stupider. And sicker.

But nobody in the U.S. would want to pay the taxes neccessary for the government to subsidize tuition like it's done in the U.S.; everybody wants to help the kids, unless it means ACTUALLY HELPING the kids. That is, nobody wants to subsidize education when they can invest in the future. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/17/wrobot17.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/02/17/ixworld.html)

Anyway. I don't think the Germans have anything to complain about right now. Sorry. But 500 Euros doesn't seem like much of a fuss when you could be in the States paying upwards of US$10,000 every semester. And god forbid you have to study one extra semester, or year!

XOXO
Trammwerk
The indebted-one.

:eek: Keep in mind that one Euro (or British Pound) usually ranges in value from $1.5 - $2.25 CAD. Eeek! When I got my degree from the U of Manitoba, books and tuition combined cost around $4500 or so each year. In Manitoba, university tuition is heavily subsidized by the government - that's why my tuition wasn't more like $10K per year. That was for a 3-yr Arts degree, though...the tution for professional degrees (pharmacy and the like) is much, much higher.

The 9-month accounting course I'm taking now is over $10 G's for tuition and books, but that's at a private institution, so it's not subsidized. :rolleyes:

You're right, though, Trammwerk: $500 Eur isn't all that bad. It's kinda sad that Germany is introducing tuition fees, though.

US Dollar dropping.. now AUD to the Ringgit is 3.02 :(

Don't think i'm ever going to study in Australia if it keeps on dropping. Aiseh.. plus I'm an international.. need to pay international full prices.

Thank God for twinning programs. Very popular here in Malaysia. Do 2-3 years here, and the final finish it off in Australia.

Well, I'm for free education always. But the costs of having it is phenomenal unless your willing to pay even more taxes, especially to mantain a high standard of education. The only way of doing this I guess is subsidizing. But nowadays education is becoming crazier.

Don't think i'm ever going to study in Australia if it keeps on dropping. Aiseh.. plus I'm an international.. need to pay international full prices.

Thank God for twinning programs. Very popular here in Malaysia. Do 2-3 years here, and the final finish it off in Australia.

It's bloody expensive huh? There are heaps of Malaysians in my degree. In fact, out 'twinning' students just arrived this semester.

...I know because I work for a large technology-based college. If you want to earn an Associates degree it will cost you $38,000 USD for two years. If you want to earn a Bachelor's degree it will cost you $71,000 USD for four years. These prices include all books, supplies, and fees. They do not include the cost of housing. The federal government will give you a maximum of $4,050 USD from the Pell Grant, but only if your family is at or below the poverty level. The rest will be covered by student loans with a ridiculously high interest rate (14%). This rate continues to increase every quarter with no cap on how high it can go. :rolleyes:

I asked our upper management why our costs were so high compared to other schools. They told me that my job was related to those costs and that if I liked my salary then I wouldn't ask stupid questions again. :eek: Since I really like getting paid; I threw my moral issues out the window and stopped asking questions.

It's bloody expensive huh? There are heaps of Malaysians in my degree. In fact, out 'twinning' students just arrived this semester.

Yup. But the numbers dropping. :p I presume your Monash right?

Actually it's still bloody expensive staying in Australia, compared to our standard of living. So we all save save save our money and splurge it on our last year in Australia to get an Australian degree. It's worth tons back here in Malaysia, a Australian degree holder can earn a 1k more than a local degree.

Not necessarily all twinning students are Malaysians though, lots of them from overseas taking opportunity of our program,like China, arabs, Indians, Pakistani's, Indonesians, Viet's and Thai's. Because the cost of living here is very low and education is rather cheap but not very good compared to yours.

So I guess Melbourne is becoming a 'asian' city. :D

Very clever way of Australia making money though. Can't imagine how much profit they make off students.

I presume your Monash right?
Nah, I'm Melbourne. And yeah, the uni must makes millions from overseas students. Yet they still manage to raise our fees.

We have this same conversation going on in Finland. Only minor differences. They now wonder if unis should charge tuition fees from non-EU students. Free for all EU citizens and extra 250€ per month for every Finnish student for five years (income limits).

We have this same conversation going on in Finland. Only minor differences. They now wonder if unis should charge tuition fees from non-EU students. Free for all EU citizens and extra 250€ per month for every Finnish student for five years (income limits).
Non EU students already have to pay fees in Germany I think.

Nah, I'm Melbourne. And yeah, the uni must makes millions from overseas students. Yet they still manage to raise our fees.

Monash Clayton rioted recently If I'm not mistaken. So did protesters in RMIT.

I wouldn't mind them if they were reasonable. But they go through 6-7% hikes across the board every year. They are far outpacing inflation and are becoming extremely expensive.

I'm currently going to UC Irvine, and all I can say is...sucks for you folks. If we have to deal with it, you should too. :headbang:
I'm pursuing a dual major (B.A. and a B.S.), and tuition shapes the grades you get. There is *NO* time for slackers, because -- unless you have a free ride from scholarships or parents -- you're going to be working for your degree. My most recent tuition was $2400 USD for a QUARTER (the University of California system has three quarters a year + summer...basically a trimester-based system). That does not include room, board, books, parking ($99 / quarter alone for commuters, 150 if you're living on campus), etc. It's about 8 times that for non-residents, and the inflation rate for UC is 15% a year (damn you Gray Davis and Arnold !! ). UC, CalState, and even the community colleges are paying for the screwups of our governors... :sniper:

I'm working myself into the ground academically, and it's still going to take me a total of ~ 5.5 years (I have 2 majors, remember) @ 20-22 units a quarter. That isn't cheap. I could have a 600-series benz, with all the money I'm spending on education. But that's how it works in the states.

And I thougth I had problems. Some of these tuition rates sound like a bad joke more than anything. For me this year I paid 4500ish plus, cost of living(in rez) another 5000. Then of course, the bar and entertainment is like another 1000 bones right there. Of course all of this is being paid by the bank which means when I get out, I should have about 40-50 thousand dollars of debt. that's just my undergraduate degree, should I go for law school, that's a thousand bones a class right there. I guess I'll have to work for a few years before that can happen I guess.

let's see. when i graduate i will owe about 16k in loans. id owe 32k but the US government gives me half of my school for free because im poor. i think universities and colleges should be cheaper because most 18 year old kids cannot afford tuition without their daddy's checkbook unless they take out loans which can quickly become daunting to pay off. i dont mind paying for school but it seems that prices are out of control. i spend about 800 a semester just on ridiculous fees for things i and most other people never use.

College should be paid for by the state at least up to Associate Degree level.

In the US, the richer people pay higher taxes. The educated are more likely to be rich. Thus, people pay back their fees, but only AFTER they have the money.

I'm lucky enough to have parents willing to foot the bill without any cost to me, and who're wealthy enough to do so. But few are that lucky, especially in larger families.

I go to a private svhool, and the tuition is very cheap...

I have to pay for my own college, although we are wealthy. My parents believ in fending for yourself.

Ok, I just submitted and issue about students making a demonstration and asking for free education. The options are the following:

[option]"No more tuitions! We deserve equal opportunities in succeding!" shouts the movement's spokesman @@RANDOMNAME@@ through his megafone, while crowd-surfing over the students. "Our money isn't paying our education, it's paying for the mansions and cars of our apathetic teachers! Free education for all!"


[option]"What a ridiculous idea" argues college professor @@RANDOMNAME@@, while polishing his Ferrari keys. "Having high tuition fees allows our facilities to be top notch and to keep very competent professors in our classes. But this issue can be solved if the government offers students loans - with high interest rates of course - but all for the sake of a bright future for our students."


[option]Someone who you never heard of, @@RANDOMNAME@@, proposes the following: "I believe that there can be public universities, where the costs are supported mostly by the government but in part by reasonable tuition fees. In these public universities, though, only the students that match the minimum entrance average for the course of their choice manage to get in. And if there is need, a scolarship will be handled to the poor. For those that aren't intelligent enough to get a public education in their area of choice, they can use the private system and submit to their fees."


As for effects and stats, those are surprises if the issue is passed.

Option two is mine...

Three sounds reasonable enough to me.

:eek: Keep in mind that one Euro (or British Pound) usually ranges in value from $1.5 - $2.25 CAD. Eeek!
500 Euro is still only 652.937 US. I don't understand what they are complaining about. I could understand it if it wasn't 500 but 2500 like some want.

im just pleased that ive had a bit of luck and im off to uni next year paying the current fees, not the increased ones which come into force next year. i really do feel for my freinds in the lower sixth.

im just pleased that ive had a bit of luck and im off to uni next year paying the current fees, not the increased ones which come into force next year. i really do feel for my freinds in the lower sixth.
Where would that be?

Uk, as I mentioned before.
Record low numbers of gap year students next year :rolleyes:

Ok so students are the lowest tier in the University system. But they don't get their money from educating students but huge great donations by big companies for them to do research. It's the unis with the most research that are putting up the highest fees, and frankly that just does not add up.

I owe a cool $10,000 dollars for this, my first, year at university. :)

Im a freshman at RPI, they gave me $13,000 in scholarships, still had to take out a $30,000 loan to cover first year. Hopefully Ill get a good job when im done and be able to pay it back as soon as possible.

bump

So, who else would like to tell us about the benefits of the capitalist education system as opposed to the equal start for everyone?

Education should funded via taxation and be free at the point of use.
Firstly, the education system should only be discriminatory on ability and not on finance.
Secondly, university education is necessary to the survival and continued prosperity of the nation-state and more broadly the planet. Why limit the growth of this 'industry' by charging fees?

Ah well, I guess we all agree here. The republicans and other right wingers really have no ground to stand on this matter so they don't even try.

I was wondering what people think of them. The reason I want to know is that Germany is going to introduce tuition fees for the first time. For starters it will be 500 euro's per semester. So far education was free of charge. But I also heard that some eventually want to raise those to 2500 euro's per semester. It's causing pretty big waves.
So what do you think of tuition fees? Not if they should be introduced in Germany or not. But in general.All education up to Phd level or master level should be free. It is such a crime that you should be expected to get out a huge loan foruniversity or pay rates like that especially for something as valuable and important as education. Unless you come from a upper-class family who doesnt have any financial problems then there is no justification for you or your parents having to pay for education.

we have tuition fees in the uk, and they've recently been raised. I can't go to university because i can't pay my tuition fees. so i'm missing out on an opportunity and the country/world is missing out on a qualified, dedicated teacher. i can't be the only person in this situation. so i don't see how tuition fees benefit the government. apart from meaning that the government is effectively privatising education.

Although my tuition was covered by scholarship, I had to take out almost $15,000 in loans to cover room and board for my two and a half years as an undergraduate.

I am now in graduate school, sitting by and watching as interest accumulates for the next four or five years, since I cannot afford to pay it off now.

This is bad enough. And most have to pay much MUCH more than I.

we have tuition fees in the uk, and they've recently been raised. I can't go to university because i can't pay my tuition fees. so i'm missing out on an opportunity and the country/world is missing out on a qualified, dedicated teacher. i can't be the only person in this situation. so i don't see how tuition fees benefit the government. apart from meaning that the government is effectively privatising education.
Well, you could always try out the open university.

I pay a bt short of $5000 cdn for an entire year. It sucks ass, but not much I can do about it.

we have tuition fees in the uk, and they've recently been raised. I can't go to university because i can't pay my tuition fees. so i'm missing out on an opportunity and the country/world is missing out on a qualified, dedicated teacher. i can't be the only person in this situation. so i don't see how tuition fees benefit the government. apart from meaning that the government is effectively privatising education.

Not the UK. England (and I think Wales). We're pretty good up here in Scotland (isn't that so often the case? :-) )

Here, at the moment at least, Higher Education is paid for by the SAAS (I'm sure it stands for something, but I don't know what). It acts in a similar way to a loan, but they get there repayments once you pass the course and get a job - from a small percentage of your steady income.

I realise I'm not making much sense here... but my point is that people will not be left drowning in debt from getting educated. They go to Uni, pass, get a job, and then their repayments are taken straight from their pay, like taxes. And the repayments are set so if you aren't earning a whole lot, you don't pay much.

*pants*

Apparently the Dutch secretary of education wants to get rid of fee's for highschool students from the age of 16.

Apparently the Dutch secretary of education wants to get rid of fee's for highschool students from the age of 16.

But the plan is also to allow the universities to severely increase the tuition fee if the student takes over a year longer than the official curriculum to complete his/her study. Most student unions are vehemently against this for obvious reasons - it makes activities besides your studies (like being an active member of a student union) very difficult/expensive - while these things do look good on ones resume...

But the plan is also to allow the universities to severely increase the tuition fee if the student takes over a year longer than the official curriculum to complete his/her study. Most student unions are vehemently against this for obvious reasons - it makes activities besides your studies (like being an active member of a student union) very difficult/expensive - while these things do look good on ones resume...
In the Netherlands? As far as I know they pay tuition fees anyway. Somewhere around 1600/1800 Euros. Books not included. The student grants however are a gift if they finish their official curriculum in time. If not they have to repay those.

In the Netherlands? As far as I know they pay tuition fees anyway. Somewhere around 1600/1800 Euros. Books not included. The student grants however are a gift if they finish their official curriculum in time. If not they have to repay those.

That is the current situation, yes. Rutte wants to change this though - if you take 1 to 1,5 years more than the official curriculum time the fee is upped to 4500 euros. Since by that time you will also no longer receive a grant, you're screwed.
http://www.lsvb.nl/actueel/leesmeer/4500_euro_maar (in Dutch)

That is the current situation, yes. Rutte wants to change this though - if you take 1 to 1,5 years more than the official curriculum time the fee is upped to 4500 euros. Since by that time you will also no longer receive a grant, you're screwed.
http://www.lsvb.nl/actueel/leesmeer/4500_euro_maar (in Dutch)
Hmm..I had no idea. Ah well, that will only help the distance education institutions.

we have tuition fees in the uk, and they've recently been raised. I can't go to university because i can't pay my tuition fees. so i'm missing out on an opportunity and the country/world is missing out on a qualified, dedicated teacher. i can't be the only person in this situation. so i don't see how tuition fees benefit the government. apart from meaning that the government is effectively privatising education.
You can apply for hardship funds, and scholarships...especially if you want to be a teacher. I think it would be ok for you, you'd never have to pay back your debt cos you'll never earn enough....sorry...my dad's Head of Chemistry at a private school and is pissed how he's getting paid less than State for the effort he's putting in...and how he's been passed over for Head of Science,....arg midnight ramblings...

Seems like not everything is better at a private uni afterall.

I pay a bt short of $5000 cdn for an entire year. It sucks ass, but not much I can do about it.
5000 for what?

If the government gave a $5,000 subsidy to anyone who buys an automobile, do you doubt that the price of automobiles would go up -- perhaps by $5,000? Why then does no one see any connection between government subsidies to college students and rising tuition?

-Thomas Sowell

-Thomas Sowell
:confused:

I think education should be free

I'm fine with tution, I pay about $2000 US a quarter (thank god for scholarships)

I think education should be free
Well, of course secondary education is, but, shouldn't we put a lid on how much a person can get without paying?

They're bad. Bad bad, really bad, cha'mone bad bad bad, really really bad, whose bad?!

Well, of course secondary education is, but, shouldn't we put a lid on how much a person can get without paying?
Higher education should be charged. But in moderation.

Well it's seems that we have it pretty good here in sweden, even if we of course want it better. Here university studys is free and even for foreign student. And also your living is financed through a goverment organisation CSN, you get around 40 % as a grant and 60 % as a loan. But I think the danish and norwegian have it better with even more grants.