NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading something the other day and the thought struck me that secularism and liberalism, as espoused by the Democratic party, contradict each other. It starts with the difference between secularism and Christianity and carries through to the liberal philosophy of government. I don't see how you can really be both at the same time.

First, the Judeo-Christian society is based on morality. Right and wrong. Good and evil. There is a clear motive to do good things for other people. That's why we see such Saints as Mother Theresa dedicating their lives to the welfare of others.

On the other hand, secularism is based on logic. The only way a secularist could behave like Mother Theresa is if the underlying premise of all their logical arguments is that "people are basically good". There's no other logical explanation for selfless acts, otherwise.

Now that we've rushed through that whole explanation, I'll try to come up with a bridge that makes my inital statement hold up. Liberals generally, Democrats always, prefer to put power for decisions in the hands of a central government. They also tend towards secular beliefs, i.e. they try to eradicate all traces of religion from government. How can they possibly trust in the basic good of humanity when they are trying to concentrate the power of government in one central body?

Okay, this is a little tongue-in-cheek and not really well presented, but I'm bored and the Scotch is starting to do it's job.

You are making a whole lot of uninformed generalizations, and then making an argument based on them. How about a little fire strawman?

Libertarianism > Liberalism > Secularism

I feel that a balance between the two is a neccessity.

Religion can be a VERY positive force in a persons life, but it needs to be balanced out with some good ol' logic.

EDIT: I generaly consider myself a liberal, but I'm also a Catholic as well as a wanabee-Buddhist. I don't want to see the eradication of any religion. It is a person's right to live their own lives as they see fit.

You're making the assumption that the only possible way for good to come from a person is through religion. Not true at all. It sometimes does, but it can also do the opposite. But I'm not going to convince anyone and I'm not feeling too good right now, so I'm done.

Democrats believe that people are inherently good/worth helping, but they also believe that the average person is too misinformed or uneducated to govern themselves. And while the republican candidate poles best in places that have the worst education standards, they certainly seem to have a leg to stand on.

You're making the assumption that the only possible way for good to come from a person is through religion. Not true at all. It sometimes does, but it can also do the opposite. But I'm not going to convince anyone and I'm not feeling too good right now, so I'm done.
Like I said, this was a Scotch-aided consciousness that started the topic. What I meant was that there is an underlying assumption that all people are good in secularist thinking. This is completely different than the Judeo-Christian religion, which has morality at it very bedrock.

For instance, thou shall not murder is a commandment to the religious. It may be that secularists find murder wrong, as well. The difference is that it's a moral judgement for a secularist and that judgement is based on reason, not obedience. So, what is wrong in a secular world is subject to the prevailing moral attitude, not a eternal commandment. That's where I make the assumption that secularism is based on the premise that humanity is good.

I can't work myself up into a lather about this tonight, either. Maybe this can be one of those low intensity threads with a new idea every day or so. I think there's some interesting contrasts between secularism and Christianity, but I'm too tired of computers to work on it any more. Besides, I hear Johnny calling...

what if someone is a secularist and a Christian? Secularism is a policy direction. Christianity is a religion. They don't contradict each other

what if someone is a secularist and a Christian? Secularism is a policy direction. Christianity is a religion. They don't contradict each other
I guess I don't see the compatibility there, at all. I consider secularism to be rejection of religion and religious activity. It's kind of like saying you're a Christian and a Buddhist because you can believe in God and also liberate yourself from suffering by purification.

Now, you can certainly be a Christian and also have very strong ideas about the way a population should be governed...My original point was that liberalism and secularism were contradictory. I probably should have said statism and secularism contradict.

Well, I'd like to try and blend Buddhism and Catholisism, and am attempting to do so now.

One can follow the Ten Commandments as well as the Eightfold Path.

And before you bring up idol-worship. Buddha said flat out that he was NOT a god, thus I am not breaking the Commandments.

As for re-incarnation? Who is to say that we are not reincarnated in a different plane of existance we know as Heaven?

Liberalism and Religion can either be best friends or worst enemies. I look upon them as allies.