NationStates Jolt Archive

Free public transportation? Just understand first of all nothing is free, it means all of the Spanish people must pay taxes, while this is good for the city dwellers of Spain, what about small farmers and other Spainyards who will never use public transportation in their life? Are these socialist policies really the right answer or will it turn out bad for them?

This will benefit everyone because it means that with more public transport less cars and so easier to get around. And not just in the cities.

Well, over here, our public transport is privatised, but still relies heavily on public funding anyway.

If it were free, I doubt the extra tax burden would really be noticable, and it would cut down on traffic as more people take to the system, possibly making road maintenance cheaper (though requiring increased services).

Considering that catching public transport to work every day is going to cost you at least $600 a year anyway.

If nothing else, it helps the environment :)

This will benefit everyone because it means that with more public transport less cars and so easier to get around. And not just in the cities.

You may have a point there. I mean, the people wont have to pay too much extra money, and that will help reduce traffic in cities and save people a lot of money. On the other hand. It will still cost a fair amount of money. Beaurocratic govt. is bad, and not everyone uses public transportation. So it will end up hurting rural people who have little money.

Just understand first of all nothing is free

how much do you pay for your air right now? and what's the admission fee to the ocean where you are?

Free public transportation? Just understand first of all nothing is free, it means all of the Spanish people must pay taxes, while this is good for the city dwellers of Spain, what about small farmers and other Spainyards who will never use public transportation in their life? Are these socialist policies really the right answer or will it turn out bad for them?
Are you serious? Have you been to Spain? It's a pretty small country...do you really think the rural people never go to the cities, they just stay out on their quaint farms all their lives?

Yes, I think it's a great idea. Pollution is centered in urban areas because of poor city planning (built for cars, not people, though being old cities, Spanish urban centres are not as bad for that) and concentration of automobiles. Public transportation will cut down on that pollution and consequently the health problems associated with it, (asthma, CPD etc), which should lower the burden on the health system.

Well, over here, our public transport is privatised, but still relies heavily on public funding anyway.

If it were free, I doubt the extra tax burden would really be noticable, and it would cut down on traffic as more people take to the system, possibly making road maintenance cheaper (though requiring increased services).

Considering that catching public transport to work every day is going to cost you at least $600 a year anyway.

Well if it costs that much for one person than the tax burden will definetely be noticable, otherwise the companys wouldnt charge that much money.

how much do you pay for your air right now? and what's the admission fee to the ocean where you are?

A day pass to the Jersey shore is around 5-6$. As for air, Ive never been Scuba Diving, but those oxygen tanks arent cheap. Just understand Everything has its price!! HAHAHAHAHA! Welcome to Dick Cheneys America!

No but seriously, air is the only thing that is free.

Well if it costs that much for one person than the tax burden will definetely be noticable, otherwise the companys wouldnt charge that much money.

No, 'cause it's a profit making enterprise sanctioned by the government. Anything they gain out of ticket sales is pure profit, the government already pays for all of the track maintenance costs and new trains. All the company has to pay for is wages (subsidised) and administration overhead. The company charges that much because they can.

Of course, many people choose to risk fines and freeload off the system without buying a ticket anyway.

Are you serious? Have you been to Spain? It's a pretty small country...do you really think the rural people never go to the cities, they just stay out on their quaint farms all their lives?

Yes, I think it's a great idea. Pollution is centered in urban areas because of poor city planning (built for cars, not people, though being old cities, Spanish urban centres are not as bad for that) and concentration of automobiles. Public transportation will cut down on that pollution and consequently the health problems associated with it, (asthma, CPD etc), which should lower the burden on the health system.

I personally have NOT been to Spain, its on my to-do list, but my friend who now lives in America was born there and goes back every year. And he tells me many of his friends have never been to a major city. BTW, he lives in Arajon or something like that.

No, 'cause it's a profit making enterprise sanctioned by the government. Anything they gain out of ticket sales is pure profit, the government already pays for all of the track maintenance costs and new trains. All the company has to pay for is wages (subsidised) and administration overhead. The company charges that much because they can.

Of course, many people choose to risk fines and freeload off the system without buying a ticket anyway.

Yeah in Italy (which I have been to) noone pays to use the subways, I mean they sell tickets, and at first I bought one, than someone told me in this country noone checks for tickets and he has never paid and he takes the subway everyday, and this was in Rome!

I personally have NOT been to Spain, its on my to-do list, but my friend who now lives in America was born there and goes back every year. And he tells me many of his friends have never been to a major city. BTW, he lives in Arajon or something like that.
Aragon. And I doubt that is true of anything other than a VERY small percentage of rural people.

In any case, the people that will be shouldering the main burden of the taxes to pay for these public transport systems will be the city dwellers themselves, not the rural people. Spanish municipalities will collect the taxes to pay for them. Unless the Spanish government comes up with some sort of transfer payments from rural taxes to the cities, this is a non-issue.

Yeah in Italy (which I have been to) noone pays to use the subways, I mean they sell tickets, and at first I bought one, than someone told me in this country noone checks for tickets and he has never paid and he takes the subway everyday, and this was in Rome!
In Edmonton, Alberta, you face a pretty hefty fine if you don't pay for public transport, and transport cops are EVERYWHERE! (By hefty, I mean way more than the original ticket would have cost, and our public transport is pretty lame, really). Then again, will you make it a non-for-profit transport system to encourage use and make up revenues in higher automobile and gas taxes, or will you make it for-profit, heavily policed, and probably less used?

Yeah in Italy (which I have been to) noone pays to use the subways, I mean they sell tickets, and at first I bought one, than someone told me in this country noone checks for tickets and he has never paid and he takes the subway everyday, and this was in Rome!

Oh, they check here. They have big fat guys who take your name and address if you dont have a valid ticket and send you a fine. And if you refuse to give them, they haul you off the train to do God-knows-what (i'll have to find someone who has survived that, heh).

Yes, I always buy a ticket. :p

They check in the US too, but the funny thing is, on the Venician boat bus' (god I cant believe I forgot what they were called!) if you dont pay you are screwed! Saw some guy argueing and he was written a ticket, when he ripped it up, the cops escorted him away at the next stop. Polizia, what a great word.

Fun fact: One time my dad witnessed an old woman dying, she was on a tour and sitting next to a Spanish man who commented that she was sick. A few moments later she passed out and died, a young American couple tried to give her mouth to mouth (ewwww!) and a water ambulance came to take her away. But she was dead, wasnt saved.

Fun fact: One time my dad witnessed an old woman dying, she was on a tour and sitting next to a Spanish man who commented that she was sick. A few moments later she passed out and died, a young American couple tried to give her mouth to mouth (ewwww!) and a water ambulance came to take her away. But she was dead, wasnt saved.
Um...fun fact? And your point?

its only spain.
i am not going to offend any spanyards who are here but personaly i despise the spanish( i am not predjudice i hate most people equally)

its only spain.
i am not going to offend any spanyards who are here but personaly i despise the spanish( i am not predjudice i hate most people equally)

Lol.

They check in the US too, but the funny thing is, on the Venician boat bus' (god I cant believe I forgot what they were called!) if you dont pay you are screwed! Saw some guy argueing and he was written a ticket, when he ripped it up, the cops escorted him away at the next stop. Polizia, what a great word.

Fun fact: One time my dad witnessed an old woman dying, she was on a tour and sitting next to a Spanish man who commented that she was sick. A few moments later she passed out and died, a young American couple tried to give her mouth to mouth (ewwww!) and a water ambulance came to take her away. But she was dead, wasnt saved.

i think its gondolia or somthing like that sound like goneria but isnt (gonerea being a desease and all)

Um...fun fact? And your point?

My point? No point.

i think its gondolia or somthing like that sound like goneria but isnt (gonerea being a desease and all)

a Gondola is a very expensive personal conoe type of thing.

I always just buy my ticket when the ticket guy comes around on the train. Its like a quid more and over half the time they dont even check.

Well lets apreciate Spain for siestas, their laziness is inspirational! Seriously, waking up late, going to work/school, coming home at 1:00 staying there for 2 hours, going back to work or school, coming home staying up late. Those guys know how to work.

So if everything has a price, what is the price for the administration of the tickets/prices etc, controlling people and the machines that check your ticket and keeps you out if you haven't paid?

In many towns you have "special offers" for the locals that know it is for free and only "commuter tourists" pay. I guess the politicians plan it that way.

A really cool thing were used in stockholm where you could buy a monthly insurance from an NGO. It insured you from getting fined if you got caugth. People rarely got caugth but sometimes so you bought the insurance for 10euros and the price for a regular monthly pass was 50 euros. It was a win-win-win situation. commuters won, the NGO won, and Connex (the private metro-company) also won. They just won a little less, not profiting so awfully much on the commuters ;)

Well lets apreciate Spain for siestas, their laziness is inspirational! Seriously, waking up late, going to work/school, coming home at 1:00 staying there for 2 hours, going back to work or school, coming home staying up late. Those guys know how to work.

Have you ever been there? Its pretty fucking hot 24/7 over there, but between midday and 3 its just insane. Even going outside is a struggle

Have you ever been there? Its pretty fucking hot 24/7 over there, but between midday and 3 its just insane. Even going outside is a struggle

Then in scandinavia where we don't have any sun for half the year we still spend the few sunny hours inside the offices! I would vote for working 6 hours from 15-21 and change the whole society dring the months of dec,jan,feb.

Then in scandinavia where we don't have any sun for half the year we still spend the few sunny hours inside the offices! I would vote for working 6 hours from 15-21 and change the whole society dring the months of dec,jan,feb.

Hey, why not

Because conservatives!

So if everything has a price, what is the price for the administration of the tickets/prices etc, controlling people and the machines that check your ticket and keeps you out if you haven't paid?

In many towns you have "special offers" for the locals that know it is for free and only "commuter tourists" pay. I guess the politicians plan it that way.

A really cool thing were used in stockholm where you could buy a monthly insurance from an NGO. It insured you from getting fined if you got caugth. People rarely got caugth but sometimes so you bought the insurance for 10euros and the price for a regular monthly pass was 50 euros. It was a win-win-win situation. commuters won, the NGO won, and Connex (the private metro-company) also won. They just won a little less, not profiting so awfully much on the commuters...

This is good, worth a bump dont you think so?

btw, it's not only Spain which has free public transportation, in Belgium it's free if you're older than 65, and in some cities it's even free for everyone


republicofgaea.tripod.com (http://republicofgaea.tripod.com)

As a Spaniard I can tell you that this is probably a good thing. Urban and traffic polution is pretty bad. Another thing you don't here about is noise pollution. In some urbanized parts of Spain (due to motorcycles, massive construction projects etc.) have a very high level of noise pollution. And if more people are taking public transportation, then less cars and motorcycles will be out on the road at any given time.