NationStates Jolt Archive

[COLOR=Green][SIZE=7][SIZE=2]what do tou think of the british (or any other countries) armed forces

from my understanding, the US has the largest armed forces in the world. the british pride themselves on a small but very highly trained force. thats all i know...

from my understanding, the US has the largest armed forces in the world. the british pride themselves on a small but very highly trained force. thats all i know...

welll i guess thats o.k
do you think this thread is to open ? i guess i should have been more specific?

and yes our special forces are highly trained yet small

from my understanding, the US has the largest armed forces in the world. the british pride themselves on a small but very highly trained force. thats all i know...
No, the US has the most technologically advanced and perhaps best trained armed forces. The British are up there too. As are the Israelis.

as we know the british armed forces are highly trained, able to operate under any conditions. in 5 years our troops get the JAVELIN anti tank missile launcher wareas america are sticking with LAWS until 2010

Yes, the British army is quite patently the best in the world. it has to work under hoon, and it hasn't fallen apart yet. And he is harder to defend against than an enemy assault. for some reason he's under the delusion that less troops = better army, and keeps on cutting them. And despite the fact we have a comparatively tiny army, we can't even keep them well supplied. Nothing like having the high-ups trying their damndest to destroy the army, eh? Not to mention the state of most of the equipment, and the persisting jamming problem in the SA-80 which is even worse in desert conditions.

Besides, no-one can stand up to the SAS.

No, the US has the most technologically advanced and perhaps best trained armed forces. The British are up there too. As are the Israelis.

better equiped but not better trained
u.s training nearly equal standards with british

as we know the british armed forces are highly trained, able to operate under any conditions. in 5 years our troops get the JAVELIN anti tank missile launcher wareas america are sticking with LAWS until 2010
Javelin is already in use by US forces. www.raytheon.com/products/static/node4741.html

No, the US has the most technologically advanced and perhaps best trained armed forces. The British are up there too. As are the Israelis.

There is no way the US is as well trained as the UK, otherwise we wouldn't be so bloody paranoid about going into firefights with you. You seem to have this habit of shooting allied soldiers. Something that never seems to happen with British troops, or at least happens on a far smaller scale. I feel that US troops may develop an over-reliance on technology as well, something that British troops will never develop because our technology always breaks. :P

Yes, the British army is quite patently the best in the world. it has to work under hoon, and it hasn't fallen apart yet. And he is harder to defend against than an enemy assault. for some reason he's under the delusion that less troops = better army, and keeps on cutting them. And despite the fact we have a comparatively tiny army, we can't even keep them well supplied. Nothing like having the high-ups trying their damndest to destroy the army, eh? Not to mention the state of most of the equipment, and the persisting jamming problem in the SA-80 which is even worse in desert conditions.

Besides, no-one can stand up to the SAS.

i am under no dilusion
guatamalia has a small army comprising of donkys and cheese graters but its no better small army does not = better

better equiped but not better trained
u.s training nearly equal standards with british
US training isn't the same accross the board. Some troops get more training than others. An infantryman in 10th mountain division is going to get more and better training than a national guardsman for instance.

Javelin is already in use by US forces. www.raytheon.com/products/static/node4741.html

really? shit il go check hang on

looks that way doesnt it.
and why do you guys shoot at us not iraqis. is it a personal thing or just a mistake LOL

Question...Is the "British" military divided into Scottish, N-Irish, Welsh and English or is it all one military in the sence that there are no Welsh, N-Irish, Scottish and English divisions?

There is no way the US is as well trained as the UK, otherwise we wouldn't be so bloody paranoid about going into firefights with you. You seem to have this habit of shooting allied soldiers. Something that never seems to happen with British troops, or at least happens on a far smaller scale. I feel that US troops may develop an over-reliance on technology as well, something that British troops will never develop because our technology always breaks. :P
It's funny that when you want to chase down Afgans in the mountains, who do you call in to do it? The British. When you want any kind of precise hit, who do you call? When you want to teach people how to police a war torn city who does the teaching? You guessed it.. the British.
I'm not saying the US are no good, just not as good. It comes down to attitude.. the British get the job done, they don't have to try and enjoy it, they just do it. That is what a profesional army does.

Question...Is the "British" military divided into Scottish, N-Irish, Welsh and English or is it all one military in the sence that there are no Welsh, N-Irish, Scottish and English divisions?

each region has a regiment wich forms part of differnt divisions for example the sotts guards are in the guards div as are the welsh guards

each region has a regiment wich forms part of differnt divisions for example the sotts guards are in the guards div as are the welsh guards
Okay, thanks.

In fact the biggest special forces is not the Americans......But in fact the North Koreans...Which number anything from 50-120 thousand men...

Crazy eh... :p

Quote: It's funny that when you want to chase down Afgans in the mountains, who do you call in to do it? The British. When you want any kind of precise hit, who do you call? When you want to teach people how to police a war torn city who does the teaching? You guessed it.. the British.
I'm not saying the US are no good, just not as good. It comes down to attitude.. the British get the job done, they don't have to try and enjoy it, they just do it. That is what a profesional army does.

i agree

Okay, thanks.

its not much but i hope it was of little if any use

In fact the biggest special forces is not the Americans......But in fact the North Koreans...Which number anything from 50-120 thousand men...

Crazy eh... :p

indeed korea has a huge special forces organisation
wich is probably bigger than the u.s
i dont know about korea il go check

indeed korea has a huge special forces organisation
wich is probably bigger than the u.s
i dont know about korea il go check

It's on most search engines....And there not half bad if you look them up in detail...

E.G "When two korean agents evaded an army for almost a month I believe. "

i realy hope this thread takes off

I am British and I want to be in our Army as a Infantry officer, if not in the RAF.
I think Britain has the best Armed forces, even though where small we can effectavly kick ass.
We have a great Air force and a good Navy..The Americans have equally good Infantry to us and also a good Air force and Navy.
I would say Britain and America are the best Milltaries...I personally beleive that with both of us together no-one can stand up to us.
I do want to be in the RMC...Sniper...probally wont get in there like the elite.
:sniper:

It's on most search engines....And there not half bad if you look them up in detail...

E.G "When two korean agents evaded an army for almost a month I believe. "

yea i was just on alltheweb.com and theyr pretty good. do you know what the korean basic infantry weapon is?

I am British and I want to be in our Army as a Infantry officer, if not in the RAF.
I think Britain has the best Armed forces, even though where small we can effectavly kick ass.
We have a great Air force and a good Navy..The Americans have equally good Infantry to us and also a good Air force and Navy.
I would say Britain and America are the best Milltaries...I personally beleive that with both of us together no-one can stand up to us.
I do want to be in the RMC...Sniper...probally wont get in there like the elite.
:sniper:
University if you want to be an officer.
Sniper, not an officer. Do your basic, perform well and you might get there, few do. Try the marines.

I am British and I want to be in our Army as a Infantry officer, if not in the RAF.
I think Britain has the best Armed forces, even though where small we can effectavly kick ass.
We have a great Air force and a good Navy..The Americans have equally good Infantry to us and also a good Air force and Navy.
I would say Britain and America are the best Milltaries...I personally beleive that with both of us together no-one can stand up to us.
I do want to be in the RMC...Sniper...probally wont get in there like the elite.
:sniper:

either redus capi (M.P) or logistics or (mainly) a lawyer in the army

but dont think il get in as i am unfit, un healthyu and weak , il never pass the physical. sandhurst is my aim though

so you want to be in the P.B.I eh. given the choice i would be a pen pusher or in an armoured regement but the parras sound good

its not much but i hope it was of little if any use


Oh yeah, sure. Thanks

Oh yeah, sure. Thanks

its a pleasure, remember to vote in the poll at the top of the page please

:rolleyes: Well I used to know...but I can't be assed to think....

Although there latest tanks are quite good....M-2002

Which are pretty much the improved version of a russian T-90

o.k lets kick it off

iranian embersy seige

did you know that some of the terrorists disguised themselves as hostages so the s.a.s wouldnt shoot them.

I voted SAS just out of patriotism (for those who know me read :eek: ), but after reading the account of the Delta operation in Mogadishu (sp?) (Black Hawk Down etc etc) they are also supremely highly trained and in the case of the two soldiers who died defending one of the helos, willing to give the ultimate sacrafice too.

:rolleyes: Well I used to know...but I can't be assed to think....

Although there latest tanks are quite good....M-2002

Which are pretty much the improved version of a russian T-90

t-90
yanks use abrams and bradleys dont they
we use challenger 2s of course
what dom the french use?

I voted SAS just out of patriotism (for those who know me read :eek: ), but after reading the account of the Delta operation in Mogadishu (sp?) (Black Hawk Down etc etc) they are also supremely highly trained and in the case of the two soldiers who died defending one of the helos, willing to give the ultimate sacrafice too.

yep those delta force guys are tough

but why does america have so many spec forces

Britain have the most highly trained army in the world. Nobody can doubt this, because its a fact. The SAS are looked up to by every other special forces regiment in the world, and are recognised as the best by everyone.

Britain have the most highly trained army in the world. Nobody can doubt this, because its a fact. The SAS are looked up to by every other special forces regiment in the world, and are recognised as the best by everyone.

hmm we do train most developing countries

the s.a.s trained the u.s navy seals for a bit but that was some time ago

as we know the british armed forces are highly trained, able to operate under any conditions. in 5 years our troops get the JAVELIN anti tank missile launcher wareas america are sticking with LAWS until 2010

The US Armed forces have standardized on the AT-4 Anti-tank weapon. True there are some LAW's out there, but it's not the front-line weapon.

Germans are the panzer II i think....

And the S.A.S did really kick ass in the first gulf war
But 2 koreans fought of a army for nearly a month
Whereas the deltas did indeed perform amazing actions
And need we say more on the Israelis

I said British, for a few reasons. First the SAS is legendary, nobody else knows special forces like them. Secondly, they are almost unique in the fact that they have access to the highest reaches of government, unlike Delta, the SEAL's, etc. True, those guys are very good, but looking at Eagle Claw, Grenada, and of course Somalia, doesnt bode well. Israeil are very good as well, but Im British, so I am biased :)

yep those delta force guys are tough

but why does america have so many spec forces

Simple my friend. During JFK, they expanded loads, and this didnt help at all. Then, Delta was created by Charlie Beckwith, and it became basically a clone of the SAS. The of course stuff like the SEAL's came about etc. etc. The list just goes on and on

There is no way the US is as well trained as the UK, otherwise we wouldn't be so bloody paranoid about going into firefights with you. You seem to have this habit of shooting allied soldiers. Something that never seems to happen with British troops, or at least happens on a far smaller scale. I feel that US troops may develop an over-reliance on technology as well, something that British troops will never develop because our technology always breaks. :P
This topic is referring to the special forces don't get the U.S Navy Seals, Army Rangers mixed up with the common soldier. Each of the elite forces mentioned are the best trained, best equiped that each of the respective nations can offer. I think the difference would be which group would have the best intelligence, and familiarity with the region where they are deployed.

the SAS was the worlds first covert anti terror force, before the irainian siege all the rest of the world had done was sit there with tanks then blow the place up. the sas inserted listening devices and camera through chimenys and then took the building using tactics and co-operation.

naturally the Spetznatz come second. with OMON third

i agree with jordaxia aswell, i dont like anything, especially armies that rely upon technology too much, i heard a program where a pilot was saying that if the computer in an F-15 broke the plane would immiedeatly crash. then i thought, we rely on computers too much.

Germans are the panzer II i think....

And the S.A.S did really kick ass in the first gulf war
But 2 koreans fought of a army for nearly a month
Whereas the deltas did indeed perform amazing actions
And need we say more on the Israelis

the panzer two was gone with the churchill
germany uses leapord 2s now i think

the SAS was the worlds first covert anti terror force, before the irainian siege all the rest of the world had done was sit there with tanks then blow the place up. the sas inserted listening devices and camera through chimenys and then took the building using tactics and co-operation.

naturally the Spetznatz come second. with OMON third

wich country has
OMON

what do you guys think of the thread so far?

the panzer two was gone with the churchill
germany uses leapord 2s now i think

Yeah thats the one my mistake..... :p

Its been a while you see since I knew all this stuff...I'm quite rusty and a bit cranky.....

What about the Libyan special forces, are they any good?

This topic is referring to the special forces don't get the U.S Navy Seals, Army Rangers mixed up with the common soldier. Each of the elite forces mentioned are the best trained, best equiped that each of the respective nations can offer. I think the difference would be which group would have the best intelligence, and familiarity with the region where they are deployed.


D'oh, I knew that... but seemedto ignore it for the duration of the post.

Even so, I know that the SAS outperform the Delta force. It's a simple matter of experience. British SAS troops have the benefit of the experience of the first British commandos to help them, decades of dealing with urban combat (Ireland) and all that goes with it. The Americans don't have this, and so don't have the people to teach them it from amongst their own.

On the subject of the standard troops again though, their rules of engagement really work against them for insurgent combat.

[COLOR=Green][SIZE=7][SIZE=2]what do tou think of the british (or any other countries) armed forces

I think they

have lots of esprit de corps
are resourceful and reliable
include the Gurkhas, the best troops in the world
are led by donkeys and always have been ( exceptions of course, but precious few )
are ceremonially impressive - Red arrows, Guards, etc.


Many other armys have some of the good qualities and more, but in a tight spot I would want the Australians with us every time.

what do you guys think of the thread so far?
I like it, but I screwed up in one post. I didn't realize we were talking strictly special forces, and I mentioned the 10th Mountain div. They are not special forces. Just damn good infantry.

Yeah thats the one my mistake..... :p

Its been a while you see since I knew all this stuff...I'm quite rusty and a bit cranky.....

What about the Libyan special forces, are they any good?

yep, well i hope so, you see my dad served in libya and trained the army
2 guys (fellow oficers) he worked with went on to be in th sas in gw1
i think there both retired now. he said they were useless when he knew them LOL

I like it, but I screwed up in one post. I didn't realize we were talking strictly special forces, and I mentioned the 10th Mountain div. They are not special forces. Just damn good infantry.

no not just spec forces. any regiment, any div please anything from weapons to tanks

russia :p :p have OMON

[QUOTE=The grand britania]yep, well i hope so, you see my dad served in libya and trained the army
2 guys (fellow oficers) he worked with went on to be in th sas in gw1
i think there both retired now. he said they were useless when he knew them LOL[/QUOTE

Oh i see....From what I know they were trained by the S.A.S or were they not

And I forgot about the Russians....

They were damn good...

russia :p :p have OMON

and spetznas( or is that germany? no its russia, god i hope i am right)

[QUOTE=The grand britania]yep, well i hope so, you see my dad served in libya and trained the army
2 guys (fellow oficers) he worked with went on to be in th sas in gw1
i think there both retired now. he said they were useless when he knew them LOL[/QUOTE

Oh i see....From what I know they were trained by the S.A.S or were they not

And I forgot about the Russians....

They were damn good...

i dont know about there SPECIAL forces (sorry if it is not clear) but my dad and his lot trained their army and armoured car regiments this was through the 60s and 70s (hes retired now in the early 90s late 80s time )

Javelin is already in use by US forces. www.raytheon.com/products/static/node4741.html

And the standard unguided anti-tank rocket in the US military has been the AT-4 for over 15 years.

The Marines also use the SMAW (another unguided rocket launcher).

The LAW has been brought back with some modifications for the exact reason that it is small and light - characteristics that make it good for use against PEOPLE in urban combat.

Sort of a lighter, smaller, handier RPG-7, which is used mostly at people these days. The AT-4, at about 15 pounds, isn't exactly handy (although I bet it would be a sight to see someone hit by one).

and spetznas( or is that germany? no its russia, god i hope i am right)

You are, the Speztnaz are Russian

I see grand britannia....And yes the Spetnaz are the Russian or former soviets special forces....Don't you remember the film Rambo?....

I see grand britannia....And yes the Spetnaz are the Russian or former soviets special forces....Don't you remember the film Rambo?....

Spetnaz are still around! But they are no longer feared

I see grand britannia....And yes the Spetnaz are the Russian or former soviets special forces....Don't you remember the film Rambo?....

i have not seen many rambo fiilms i prefer rocky and demolition man that was good

There was a programme on the Spetznaz a few years ago (on the BBC at the height of the on going Chechnia conflict), there was a quality sergeant talking to his troops but playing for the camera as well an he said something along the lines of:

"Remember, we can't afford to shoot like the americans! We have no money so save your bullets and hit the man first time, don't walk your fire up to and over him! If your stuck in a fire fight with only 3 round left, you need to make use of them!" etc etc etc

The first sentance (which is what he was said to be saying) had me laughing so much...its like they have seen nothing but movies...

What about the Libyan special forces, are they any good?


Ever heard of the Green Nuns of the Revolution?

Gadaffi's own elite special forces guard squad, their sole duty to protect him and look foxy whilst they were at it too. :lol:

They were all female... :eek:

Spetnaz are still around! But they are no longer feared

True after the fall of the soviet there funding greatly diminished....Although I am pretty sure that they will rise again with Putin in charge....

Although he going a bit dictatorish on us he still has done quite a good job with economy since the fall of U.S.S.R...They have like the 5th highest gnp growth or something like that.

There was a programme on the Spetznaz a few years ago (on the BBC at the height of the on going Chechnia conflict), there was a quality sergeant talking to his troops but playing for the camera as well an he said something along the lines of:

"Remember, we can't afford to shoot like the americans! We have no money so save your bullets and hit the man first time, don't walk your fire up to and over him! If your stuck in a fire fight with only 3 round left, you need to make use of them!" etc etc etc

The first sentance (which is what he was said to be saying) had me laughing so much...its like they have seen nothing but movies...

well i have to agree with thart guy the u.s are abit of a water pump army (push a button and watch the bullets come out,hitting the enemy and aboutn50% of the scenery to.

Ever heard of the Green Nuns of the Revolution?

Gadaffi's own elite special forces guard squad, their sole duty to protect him and look foxy whilst they were at it too. :lol:

They were all female... :eek:

good old gadaffi. :( i wonder...............

well i have to agree with thart guy the u.s are abit of a water pump army (push a button and watch the bullets come out,hitting the enemy and aboutn50% of the scenery to.

Only 50%??!? The 'Daisy Cutter' bomb (largest single piece of non-nuclear ordanance i believe) was built to annihilate the other 50% too! Imagine dropping that on Falluja... :eek:

There was a programme on the Spetznaz a few years ago (on the BBC at the height of the on going Chechnia conflict), there was a quality sergeant talking to his troops but playing for the camera as well an he said something along the lines of:

"Remember, we can't afford to shoot like the americans! We have no money so save your bullets and hit the man first time, don't walk your fire up to and over him! If your stuck in a fire fight with only 3 round left, you need to make use of them!" etc etc etc

The first sentance (which is what he was said to be saying) had me laughing so much...its like they have seen nothing but movies...

Thing is, this is the same reason why most other professional armies take the piss out of the American forces. They do have a tendency to lay down huge volumes of suppressing fire which never hit anything, other than stuff they're not meant to hit (civilians/friendly forces etc). Other armies teach soldiers to fire in short controlled bursts, americans on the other hand only seem to feel safe if they're on full automatic, firing round a corner with their eyes closed.

Only 50%??!? The 'Daisy Cutter' bomb (largest single piece of non-nuclear ordanance i believe) was built to annihilate the other 50% too! Imagine dropping that on Falluja... :eek:


I think the MOAB (depending on how you want to call it, either the Mother Of All Bombs or the Multiple Ordinance Airburst Bomb) is larger. it requires a herc to drop, anyway.

did it even see deployment, or was it a propaganda bomb? (look how much boom we can drop!)

Only 50%??!? The 'Daisy Cutter' bomb (largest single piece of non-nuclear ordanance i believe) was built to annihilate the other 50% too! Imagine dropping that on Falluja... :eek:

i wish they would it wiould save a bit of tme

well i have to agree with thart guy the u.s are abit of a water pump army (push a button and watch the bullets come out,hitting the enemy and aboutn50% of the scenery to.

I would disagree. US Marines are considered to be the world's finest riflemen, having won that distinction from the British in competition (as well as the nature of their training). The "average" Marine currently qualifies with the standard rifle out to 800 yards - a distance that is matched by no other armed force in the world, including the US Army (which takes you out to 300 yards with the standard service rifle).

The Marines, in basic training, are using a rifle without an optical scope, out to 800 yards. On single shot. For their basic qualification.

It is a tradition that dates back to Belleau Wood (in WW I), where the Marines, upon moving near the front lines, saw Germans looking at them from a wooded copse at about 800 yards. The British had not shot at the Germans, considering it to be too far away.

The Marines laid down, adjusted their sights, and went to work, killing Germans. The Germans later were astonished that anyone could hit them so far away.

Speaking as an Army Infantryman, I am still not up on the idea of a bullet hose. Yet it is a known fact that fire is not always used to hit targets - sometimes it is used to suppress the enemy so you can close with them (I've seen British manuals that describe that process in detail).

Having shot with a few members of a British mechanized company (when they were on Operation Granby, for which they gave me a plaque), I can say that the typical British infantryman isn't any better or worse than the typical US Army infantryman - roughly the same tactics and marksmanship. Their NCOs are better - but that's my opinion.

US Marines, OTOH, are something else.

I think the MOAB (depending on how you want to call it, either the Mother Of All Bombs or the Multiple Ordinance Airburst Bomb) is larger. it requires a herc to drop, anyway.

did it even see deployment, or was it a propaganda bomb? (look how much boom we can drop!)

I think they discount MOAB as it is lots of smaller bombs together, where as the daisy cutter is just one big mutha of explosives...

hmmmmmm, i wonder is they could get a 'SPECTRE' to drop a 'MOAB'. that would be some seriously heavy fire power to clean up any remenants afterwards!

Thing is, this is the same reason why most other professional armies take the piss out of the American forces. They do have a tendency to lay down huge volumes of suppressing fire which never hit anything, other than stuff they're not meant to hit (civilians/friendly forces etc). Other armies teach soldiers to fire in short controlled bursts, americans on the other hand only seem to feel safe if they're on full automatic, firing round a corner with their eyes closed.

your right my dad complained like hell when they replaced the no 4 for the SLR

Thing is, this is the same reason why most other professional armies take the piss out of the American forces. They do have a tendency to lay down huge volumes of suppressing fire which never hit anything, other than stuff they're not meant to hit (civilians/friendly forces etc). Other armies teach soldiers to fire in short controlled bursts, americans on the other hand only seem to feel safe if they're on full automatic, firing round a corner with their eyes closed.
And you know this how? U.S troops very rarely go full automatic. For the most part they would be semi-auto which is a three round burst. Firing with eyes closed? That is the dumbest thing I've heard.

Spetnaz are still around! But they are no longer feared

Aside from the ex-spetznaz now working all over the place as bodyguards and gangsters. They still tend to be feared, especially if you're doing business in russia.

The m.o.a.b. (mass ordinance air blast) is our largest non-nuclear weapon now, although I believe it is for troops, and not structures.

Thing is, this is the same reason why most other professional armies take the piss out of the American forces. They do have a tendency to lay down huge volumes of suppressing fire which never hit anything, other than stuff they're not meant to hit (civilians/friendly forces etc). Other armies teach soldiers to fire in short controlled bursts, americans on the other hand only seem to feel safe if they're on full automatic, firing round a corner with their eyes closed.

You can't fire full automatic with the M16A2, and it's been the issue weapon since 1987.

So, how are the US soldiers firing full automatic? Hm?

There are three selector positions - Safe, Semi, and Burst.

As in 3-round burst.

You obviously have never seen Americans in combat. Or you watch too many movies.

I would disagree. US Marines are considered to be the world's finest riflemen, having won that distinction from the British in competition (as well as the nature of their training). The "average" Marine currently qualifies with the standard rifle out to 800 yards - a distance that is matched by no other armed force in the world, including the US Army (which takes you out to 300 yards with the standard service rifle).

The Marines, in basic training, are using a rifle without an optical scope, out to 800 yards. On single shot. For their basic qualification.

It is a tradition that dates back to Belleau Wood (in WW I), where the Marines, upon moving near the front lines, saw Germans looking at them from a wooded copse at about 800 yards. The British had not shot at the Germans, considering it to be too far away.

The Marines laid down, adjusted their sights, and went to work, killing Germans. The Germans later were astonished that anyone could hit them so far away.

Speaking as an Army Infantryman, I am still not up on the idea of a bullet hose. Yet it is a known fact that fire is not always used to hit targets - sometimes it is used to suppress the enemy so you can close with them (I've seen British manuals that describe that process in detail).

Having shot with a few members of a British mechanized company (when they were on Operation Granby, for which they gave me a plaque), I can say that the typical British infantryman isn't any better or worse than the typical US Army infantryman - roughly the same tactics and marksmanship. Their NCOs are better - but that's my opinion.

US Marines, OTOH, are something else.

I heard the USMC have the best riflemen on the planet...

I agree with you on supressing fire, its of tactical use (and waste of ammo when used in the wrong place) but it does serve a function, especially against untrained troops who will more likely flee when fired upon (like local militias etc who have had no combat experience...).

Germans are the panzer II i think....


Leopard II, no?

what dom the french use?
Aren't the LeClerc's their MBTs?

I would disagree. US Marines are considered to be the world's finest riflemen, having won that distinction from the British in competition (as well as the nature of their training). The "average" Marine currently qualifies with the standard rifle out to 800 yards - a distance that is matched by no other armed force in the world, including the US Army (which takes you out to 300 yards with the standard service rifle).

The Marines, in basic training, are using a rifle without an optical scope, out to 800 yards. On single shot. For their basic qualification.

It is a tradition that dates back to Belleau Wood (in WW I), where the Marines, upon moving near the front lines, saw Germans looking at them from a wooded copse at about 800 yards. The British had not shot at the Germans, considering it to be too far away.

The Marines laid down, adjusted their sights, and went to work, killing Germans. The Germans later were astonished that anyone could hit them so far away.

Speaking as an Army Infantryman, I am still not up on the idea of a bullet hose. Yet it is a known fact that fire is not always used to hit targets - sometimes it is used to suppress the enemy so you can close with them (I've seen British manuals that describe that process in detail).

Having shot with a few members of a British mechanized company (when they were on Operation Granby, for which they gave me a plaque), I can say that the typical British infantryman isn't any better or worse than the typical US Army infantryman - roughly the same tactics and marksmanship. Their NCOs are better - but that's my opinion.

US Marines, OTOH, are something else.

not wanting to disagree with a combatsman here. yes fire is used for cover.

I heard the USMC have the best riflemen on the planet...

I agree with you on supressing fire, its of tactical use (and waste of ammo when used in the wrong place) but it does serve a function, especially against untrained troops who will more likely flee when fired upon (like local militias etc who have had no combat experience...).

like the terrorists

Leopard II, no?


Aren't the LeClerc's their MBTs?

leclercs. yes i think so
leapord 2s thasts what i heard (sorry if its rong)

You can't fire full automatic with the M16A2, and it's been the issue weapon since 1987.

So, how are the US soldiers firing full automatic? Hm?

There are three selector positions - Safe, Semi, and Burst.

As in 3-round burst.

You obviously have never seen Americans in combat. Or you watch too many movies.


Because heavier ordinance exists that can fire in full automatic mode, and it is in their rules of engagement to deploy a machinegun like that as soon as they come under fire if they're in a position where it'd help.

However, it is in the British rules of engagement that
1: they can only fire back. Not fire first, unless the situation is obviously hostile.

2: they MUST be able to see the target they are firing at, and must manoeuvre into position to incapacitate the target before firing back.

3: collatoral damage that could be avoided in virtually any way is unnacceptable.

The US rules of engagement are far more aggressive, and do go as far to declare collatoral damage part of the war, and make no provisions to reduce it. It also advocates use of suppressive fire.

And you know this how? U.S troops very rarely go full automatic. For the most part they would be semi-auto which is a three round burst. Firing with eyes closed? That is the dumbest thing I've heard.

re: Full automatic seen it with my own eyes in joint execises in Germany/canada and video footage my brother has brought back from Kosovo, Iraq etc. Then there is the regular news footage of Iraq, pay attention to some of those battle scenes. Most of the stuff I've seen has not been controlled three round bursts at all.

My personal fave was a squad of american soldiers sheltering behind a wall thrusting their guns around and over it and firing away without bothering to look at all where they were firing.

I know that most of them aren't really firing with their eyes closed, but we do see it sometimes and it sticks in the memory, said it for joke reasons in that post. ;)

like the terrorists

Well, more like those who are defending their homes against the U.S. for some reasons, propaganda fed to them, personal grudge etc etc...

Those who a truly terrorists, will most likely have recieved some training to a degree, admittedly not much, but as long as they have some decent leadership, they will still put up a fight...

Its a matter of getting organised and building a system for defense based on your local surroundings. Look at the example of the Chechens, the Russians at Stalingrad etc etc, adapt to your surroundings, dig in and get organised. It takes a while to learn, but if you do it right you'll make the attackers suffer to some extent.

what is the main U.S infantry weapon ? the m16

Well, more like those who are defending their homes against the U.S. for some reasons, propaganda fed to them, personal grudge etc etc...

Those who a truly terrorists, will most likely have recieved some training to a degree, admittedly not much, but as long as they have some decent leadership, they will still put up a fight...

Its a matter of getting organised and building a system for defense based on your local surroundings. Look at the example of the Chechens, the Russians at Stalingrad etc etc, adapt to your surroundings, dig in and get organised. It takes a while to learn, but if you do it right you'll make the attackers suffer to some extent.

some of the vietnemese were trained by the green berets( im going on my spec forces dvd here i could be rong) befor nam

how many actual soldiers and officersare there here? on this thread

how many actual soldiers and officersare there here? on this thread

2/502nd Infantry 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division 1987-1991.

who uses the famas auto rifle?

2/502nd Infantry 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division 1987-1991.

the screaming eagles wow
did you serve in gw 1

who uses the famas auto rifle?

Genome soldiers in Metal Gear Solid, of course!

Sorry, I couldn't resist it...

I think the MOAB (depending on how you want to call it, either the Mother Of All Bombs or the Multiple Ordinance Airburst Bomb) is larger. it requires a herc to drop, anyway.

did it even see deployment, or was it a propaganda bomb? (look how much boom we can drop!)

The Fuel Air Bomb is more powerful.

Genome soldiers in Metal Gear Solid, of course!

Sorry, I couldn't resist it...

nope snake had the famas
the genome soldiers used different weapons

The Fuel Air Bomb is more powerful.

isnt that a bit outdated

nope snake had the famas
the genome soldiers used different weapons

Dude... they had them too. Trust me. Unless I consumed massive amounts of alcohol while playing the game (which I did though).

isnt that a bit outdated
Yeah. I really think MOAB's bigger.

The moab is a fuel air bomb.

the screaming eagles wow
did you serve in gw 1

Yes. Or as some British put it, Operation Granby.

BTW, the FAMAS is a French POS.

isnt that a bit outdated


outdated, but not outdone, methinks.
The csar bomba is old, but there's never been a bigger nuke. The AK-47 is ancient, but it's still good. (you can assemble it incorrectly and it still works!) Even most AA missiles have a shorter range than the older models.

has anyone seen anything of the new U.S smartruck 2 ?

Dude... they had them too. Trust me. Unless I consumed massive amounts of alcohol while playing the game (which I did though).

have you got the 3rd one yet?

outdated, but not outdone, methinks.
The csar bomba is old, but there's never been a bigger nuke. The AK-47 is ancient, but it's still good. (you can assemble it incorrectly and it still works!) Even most AA missiles have a shorter range than the older models.

hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Legs
You can't fire full automatic with the M16A2, and it's been the issue weapon since 1987.

So, how are the US soldiers firing full automatic? Hm?

There are three selector positions - Safe, Semi, and Burst.

As in 3-round burst.

You obviously have never seen Americans in combat. Or you watch too many movies.
Because heavier ordinance exists that can fire in full automatic mode, and it is in their rules of engagement to deploy a machinegun like that as soon as they come under fire if they're in a position where it'd help.

However, it is in the British rules of engagement that
1: they can only fire back. Not fire first, unless the situation is obviously hostile.

2: they MUST be able to see the target they are firing at, and must manoeuvre into position to incapacitate the target before firing back.

3: collatoral damage that could be avoided in virtually any way is unnacceptable.

The US rules of engagement are far more aggressive, and do go as far to declare collatoral damage part of the war, and make no provisions to reduce it. It also advocates use of suppressive fire.

Thanks Jordaxia :)

@Whispering Legs,

Out of interest, with the SLR we used to be able to defeat the usual limited firing options with the judicious use of a matchstick inserted into the mechanism, everybody knew of it (and that we weren't meant to do it) but...

Any similar tricks your lads are using?

The moab is a fuel air bomb.
Actually it's not. www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030329-moab01.html
It uses tritonal explosive. 18,000 pounds of it. It gives a better effect than just fuel/air. Both are considered thermobaric though.

smartruck ? anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Legs
You can't fire full automatic with the M16A2, and it's been the issue weapon since 1987.

So, how are the US soldiers firing full automatic? Hm?

There are three selector positions - Safe, Semi, and Burst.

As in 3-round burst.

You obviously have never seen Americans in combat. Or you watch too many movies.


Thanks Jordaxia :)

@Whispering Legs,

Out of interest, with the SLR we used to be able to defeat the usual limited firing options with the judicious use of a matchstick inserted into the mechanism, everybody knew of it (and that we weren't meant to do it) but...

Any similar tricks your lads are using?



aparantly the sten used to get jammed easily and boot polish could be used on it, i forget why and for what purpose ! but there yougo

have you got the 3rd one yet?


Nah, i don't, It's not even out yet! In Sweden it isn't anyways.

But, to get back on topic. I have a relative who used to serve in the Bosnian Serb Special Forces during the war in former Yugoslavia. He was trained by Russian Spetsnaz (Cossack) soldiers. I wouldn't know if those ruskies were retired or not but they fought alongside serb Chetnik (serb nationalists) units.

I think that his units was just an elite infantry unit that was given the title special forces because they were exceptionally good in the war though, so I don't think it was a real SF unit.

His job was, however, to locate enemy armour and point out their strong position during the night and report back so attacks could be conducted thoroughly with as little casualties as possible. And his unit was very succesiful, throughout the entire war he was not wounded once and only 2 (if I remember correctly) of them were killed. He, personally, destroyed a shitload of armour and ammo dumps. I havn't dared to ask how many he killed though since he is a changed man since that war.

2/502nd Infantry 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division 1987-1991.

Wow, I served in the 2/320th FA as a FO for the 502 in that Time frame.

Nah, i don't, It's not even out yet! In Sweden it isn't anyways.

But, to get back on topic. I have a relative who used to serve in the Bosnian Serb Special Forces during the war in former Yugoslavia. He was trained by Russian Spetsnaz (Cossack) soldiers. I wouldn't know if those ruskies were retired or not but they fought alongside serb Chetnik (serb nationalists) units.

I think that his units was just an elite infantry unit that was given the title special forces because they were exceptionally good in the war though, so I don't think it was a real SF unit.

His job was, however, to locate enemy armour and point out their strong position during the night and report back so attacks could be conducted thoroughly with as little casualties as possible. And his unit was very succesiful, throughout the entire war he was not wounded once and only 2 (if I remember correctly) of them were killed. He, personally, destroyed a shitload of armour and ammo dumps. I havn't dared to ask how many he killed though since he is a changed man since that war.


i thought you were american and it was out over there.

armour and ammo dumps, cool

my dad never killed anyone, the british army doesnt go in for that sort of thing.LOL

he trained libyan troops and was involved with maping and scout cars

does anyone know anything on the smartruck??

http://www.smartruck3.com/

anyone?

thsnks

lets get the ball rolling people

i thought you were american and it was out over there.

armour and ammo dumps, cool

my dad never killed anyone, the british army doesnt go in for that sort of thing.LOL

he trained libyan troops and was involved with maping and scout cars


Well, the war in Bosnia was a messy one. Trust me on that one. It was either "Kill or get killed". There was no compromising of any sorts.

He even has loads of his war stuff left, grenades hidden among his onion reserve... his AK scattered all over the farm (only he knows where each adne very part is), some anti-tank stuff (mines, rockets, 'nades) hidden in the forest where he and parts of my mothers family live high in the "Wolf Mountains (Kozara)" in Republika Srpska (he is a Bosnian Serb, orthodox, not muslim). All that should had been returned since like... forever, but he is not one to easily give away his only life insurance when he has seen what has been done in that war.

And I don't blame him. I have many relatives who were in that war but he is the closest to SF that it gets, so I won't bother mentioning the other ones.

the U.S. is to busy shooting sacks on the side of the road
the British are...well, just...I don't know
& the Russians are too busy dealing with a bunch of overgrown neandrothals who wanna go back to the 7th century
...so...
I'd go with the Israelis back when they were dealing with the 1973 people (we havn't a clue in the world what their doing now, exept maby gettin ready to take out the Iranian nuc. program)

p.s.
the neandrothal thing sounds a bit raccist, I just mean it as an insult

wow thqats amazing i bet hes more than satisfied with that horde hes got.
you must have had an intresting childhood among all that lot
you lucky
my das got his slr, a mouser he got in libya, a shotgun and a vast number of bayonets for some reason, but the best thing hes got is a 1980s isue night vision thingy. apart from that its mostly manuals, webbing and other asorted intresting little peices

the U.S. is to busy shooting sacks on the side of the road
the British are...well, just...I don't know
& the Russians are too busy dealing with a bunch of overgrown neandrothals who wanna go back to the 7th century
...so...
I'd go with the Israelis back when they were dealing with the 1973 people (we havn't a clue in the world what their doing now, exept maby gettin ready to take out the Iranian nuc. program)

p.s.
the neandrothal thing sounds a bit raccist, I just mean it as an insult

it does abit but. your right they do want to take it back to th 7th century

and what do you mean the British are...well, just...I don't know

i am back on later bye every one
remember to have deep and thriving intelectual discussions. a

wow thqats amazing i bet hes more than satisfied with that horde hes got.
you must have had an intresting childhood among all that lot
you lucky
my das got his slr, a mouser he got in libya, a shotgun and a vast number of bayonets for some reason, but the best thing hes got is a 1980s isue night vision thingy. apart from that its mostly manuals, webbing and other asorted intresting little peices

Well, I was born and bred in Sweden. I've only ever been down there on vacation, nothing else. Although I did get to clean and assemble the AK (and fire a few rounds, yay me).

And oh, he's got one of them PPSh too, the russian sub machine gun from WWII. Not sure if it works, it did look operational though.

Well, I was born and bred in Sweden. I've only ever been down there on vacation, nothing else. Although I did get to clean and assemble the AK (and fire a few rounds, yay me).

And oh, he's got one of them PPSh too, the russian sub machine gun from WWII. Not sure if it works, it did look operational though.

must be worth a small fortune

i am trying to find an authentic luger
il be on tommorow i gotta go now
it was good talking to you i hope tour on the forum again soon

god evenig and matbe goodnight

The Belgian LRRP (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol)!!!

Wow, I served in the 2/320th FA as a FO for the 502 in that Time frame.
Ever hang out with B Company or HHC?

now someone told me that the turkish special forces were the best in the world. that they had to cross a ditch filled with spikes if they fell they died. or something. dunno the guy who said it was turkish.

Im no army expert but arent the SBS meant to be better than the SAS?
:confused:

I have noticed many people saying that the US forces are the most advanced with technology. Well what about the Israelis? they are extremely advanced for there special forces.


My vote would go:
1. British- SAS
2. US or Israeli
3. German- GSG-9

Im no army expert but arent the SBS meant to be better than the SAS?
:confused:

I think it is the SBS that prepare most of the sites that the SAS will be assaulting.

The SAS however are the ones that get their hands dirty with the killing. So it is the SAS (Special Air Service) that are for lack of a better word, better than the SBS (Special Boat Service)

now someone told me that the turkish special forces were the best in the world. that they had to cross a ditch filled with spikes if they fell they died. or something. dunno the guy who said it was turkish.

My friend that does not make them the best, it makes their OC's extremely stupid. No man should put his men through that in training, i assume it is lie. As in most Special Services they are careful about how they fire with live rounds. If they are that high strung on firing safety i highly doubt they will parade their men to certain death across a ditch of pungee sticks.

It may be true, but I just can't see it happening.

and spetznas( or is that germany? no its russia, god i hope i am right)
Yes. Germany has the Kampfschwimmer, Navy and Das Kommando Spezialkräfte(KSK), Army.

take a look at these (http://www.redsoldier.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=39) spetznatz training pics
the spring over a barbed wire fence whilst throwing an axe at a target is my personal fav :D

has any one heard of the T.N.A they are supposed to be better than the SBS but not as good as the SAS have a look at my page and look at the logo BUT bare in mind you are talking mostly to T.N.A members!? :mp5:

What site?

kazakistany :mp5:

Joint Task Force 2, baby. Canada's assassins.

Seriously. They're so secret, only something like 10% of the population knows they exist... and that's all they know.

have you heard if the T.N.A :mp5:

mmm i love TnA

the T.N.A is part of the T.N.E if you know what thse mean you must be incinerated :sniper:

mmm i love TnA

you seem to think t.n.a is something we do not know of?
to what do you imply it is.

have you heard if the T.N.A :mp5:

R.S.M stop drawing attention to the TNA. We do not exist. There are papers at area 51 to prove this.

you seem to think t.n.a is something we do not know of?
to what do you imply it is.

TnA is precious and a most desired commodity

TnA is precious and a most desired commodity

If you know what we are, please state what the letters TNA stand for.

Víkingasveitin - Icelandic Special Forces Unit.

Víkingasveitin - Icelandic Special Forces Unit.

i have heard that the s.a.s recrute members from the icelandic spec forces and that it is the icelandic spec forces who train the s.a.s in cold climes

TnA is precious and a most desired commodity

What ddo you know of T.N.A ?
what do those letters mean to you?
to you what is T.N.A? :headbang:

I think it is the SBS that prepare most of the sites that the SAS will be assaulting.

The SAS however are the ones that get their hands dirty with the killing. So it is the SAS (Special Air Service) that are for lack of a better word, better than the SBS (Special Boat Service)

The Special Boat Service is the elite wing of the Royal Marines and operate seperately from the SAS - they are a totally different, distinct unit and, to the best of my knowledge, the two have never worked together.

For what it's worth, Marines who wish to apply for service with the SBS must first pass the SAS selection procedure before then going on to also attempt to get through the SBS's own selection course; i.e. entry to the SBS takes longer and is much harder to accomplish.

To my mind, the SBS are a far superior bunch; they just aren't as well known as the SAS, probably to their advantage.

:mp5: The Special Boat Service is the elite wing of the Royal Marines and operate seperately from the SAS - they are a totally different, distinct unit and, to the best of my knowledge, the two have never worked together.

For what it's worth, Marines who wish to apply for service with the SBS must first pass the SAS selection procedure before then going on to also attempt to get through the SBS's own selection course; i.e. entry to the SBS takes longer and is much harder to accomplish.

To my mind, the SBS are a far superior bunch; they just aren't as well known as the SAS, probably to their advantage.

i must apologise on behalf of the major (chikotopia) , he should know well the importance of the S.B.S

VAE VICTUS

No need for an apology - the SBS don't exactly go out and publicise themselves, nor is there a great deal of literature about them published.

Cheers,


P.

i have heard that the s.a.s recrute members from the icelandic spec forces and that it is the icelandic spec forces who train the s.a.s in cold climes

Yes, Víkingasveitin is an elite unit and is well trained. Just like S.A.S., Delta etc.
Most people think that we have no armes or even an armed elite unit but we do.

Yeah, the SBS are a more elite unit than the SAS, and more akin to the Navy SEALs in their m.o. Personally, I voted British, because, all bias aside, I honestly believe that the SAS is a more professional and dedicated fighting force than the US forces. Since its formation, there have been no SAS men killed in combat. Ever.

Then there's the Gurkhas. Better make sure you've got your boots tied up properly boys ;).

When it comes to the highest echelon of SOFs, there's really no difference - no "best". And I take that from extensive research, including personal interviews.

Comparing the SAS, Dev Grp, SEALs, SOFD-D, GSG-9, KSK, GIGN, and other top of the line SOF units really is useless to the layman (all posters here including myself).
Each particular unit you choose excells at it's given mission. But they are all damned good. SEAL's BUDs, SAS selection, and SOFD-D selection, for exapmle are all hard ass all hell, and a bit more. I know the NATO SOF units have had shoot offs that have been won or lost by one single shot being 1mm closer to the center bull.

Even at the (and I almost hesitate to call it this) second echelon, comparison is hard.
Elite units such as the Royal Marines, 75th Ranger Regiment, 2er REP, etc. are all pretty equally kick ass. Each unit may excell at a given skill, but the overall skill levels are comperable.

well Daistallia 2104 you put us in our place ( again :( )
but let us not biker whos nation has the best spec forces(that is not what this thread is meant to be about, the poll i threw in to see how it works etc)
but instead just chat amoungst ourselves on the armys and/or spec forces of the world. :D

maybe those of you reading this will know what the letters T.N.A or T.N.E mean, perhaps you could tell me, some say (and i doubt) that they are a spec forces unit, others say its something to do with soft drinks and others porno. pleas please tell me i can not fathom it out. :confused: :D

The Special Boat Service is the elite wing of the Royal Marines and operate seperately from the SAS - they are a totally different, distinct unit and, to the best of my knowledge, the two have never worked together.

For what it's worth, Marines who wish to apply for service with the SBS must first pass the SAS selection procedure before then going on to also attempt to get through the SBS's own selection course; i.e. entry to the SBS takes longer and is much harder to accomplish.

To my mind, the SBS are a far superior bunch; they just aren't as well known as the SAS, probably to their advantage.

The SBS are not trained to the same exacting standards as the SAS. The SAS are trained in all aspects of covert warfare. SBS specialise in one aspect. So the SBS are not a better regiment than the SAS although the SBS had to pass SAS selection. As do the Paras when they join the SAS and any other British regiment you care to name. So in your theory all regiments are 'better' than the SAS.

When it comes to the highest echelon of SOFs, there's really no difference - no "best". And I take that from extensive research, including personal interviews.

Comparing the SAS, Dev Grp, SEALs, SOFD-D, GSG-9, KSK, GIGN, and other top of the line SOF units really is useless to the layman (all posters here including myself).
Each particular unit you choose excells at it's given mission. But they are all damned good. SEAL's BUDs, SAS selection, and SOFD-D selection, for exapmle are all hard ass all hell, and a bit more. I know the NATO SOF units have had shoot offs that have been won or lost by one single shot being 1mm closer to the center bull.

Even at the (and I almost hesitate to call it this) second echelon, comparison is hard.
Elite units such as the Royal Marines, 75th Ranger Regiment, 2er REP, etc. are all pretty equally kick ass. Each unit may excell at a given skill, but the overall skill levels are comperable.

But the SAS have been named possibly the best Special Forces in the world.

most of the ones you named all have certain areas...etc i think GSG-9 are mountain rangers.

SAS are trained in all aspects of covert warfare.

JTF2 (Canada) are the BEST!!! (well, I dont know anything about them but they are Canadians, like me, so...)

maybe those of you reading this will know what the letters T.N.A or T.N.E mean, perhaps you could tell me, some say (and i doubt) that they are a spec forces unit, others say its something to do with soft drinks and others porno. pleas please tell me i can not fathom it out. :confused: :D


Fear not Col. The T.N.A and T.N.E will remain a secret and one day die a secret.

JTF2 (Canada) are the BEST!!! (well, I dont know anything about them but they are Canadians, like me, so...)

I must admit, I have not heard of this JTF2. So I shall not comment on them either. But I will take your word that they are good, as Canadians have respect.

FACT: most of the SAS are actually leaving and becoming security guards in iraq all because it has better pay. :sniper: :mp5:

It si not just for the pay. There was a need for security guards due toi the election and the liberation of Iraq.

true true :sniper:

Hmmm, British Soldiers were called 'The Scroungers' during the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts.

Our Armed Forces are renowned for sending our soldiers in with the bare minimum and expecting to get on with it.

A while back some soldiers were trapped in a building surrounded by militia, they were all killed, the enquiry found that if the troops had of been better equipped they could of held out until reinforcements had a chance to arrive.

:)

British operatives have had bad luck in Iraq for some time. During the 80's when Bravo Two Zero were sent into Iraq to destroy a Oil line (i think) they had bad radios ( which made them unable to call for help. which was why Vince Philips died of exposure) they had bad Intel. some of the buildings shown on their map weren't there, or some that weren't shown were there.

It is just not a nice spot for the British to operate in.

supply is always the problem isnt it? :sniper:

not always. again, in Bravo Two Zero's mission they were addiquetly stocked. But the bad intel made it impossible for them to do their job and get out in the designated time. Thus 3 died (Vince Phillips, Bob Consiglio, Steve 'Legs' Lane) Three were captured (Andy Mcnab, 'Dinger' and Mark somebody) only one escaped, Chris Ryan. Which led to his book, 'The One That Got Away'
Andy Mcnabs capture led to his book 'Bravo Two Zero'

true .. d u want to go round james's on sunday again :sniper:

a new nation is in our little empire gents

R.S.M
Do not discuss private buisness on forums

true .. d u want to go round james's on sunday again :sniper:

Busy over the weekend. Plus you should not ask me before asking James. It is kinda rude.

And Col. You could have came up with a better name for the new nation.

:gundge: col: leave it its cool
R.S.M :sniper:

Yeah, the SBS are a more elite unit than the SAS, and more akin to the Navy SEALs in their m.o. Personally, I voted British, because, all bias aside, I honestly believe that the SAS is a more professional and dedicated fighting force than the US forces. Since its formation, there have been no SAS men killed in combat. Ever.




SAS and SBS = uber elite --> true

Never an SAS man killed in combat = absolute rubbish

:headbang: there have been members of the SAS that have been wounded but never any shot as far as i know :sniper:

the SAS was formes during WW2 to go in behind enemy lines and blow up enemy aircraft; all the equipment they had was as follows:
a jeep
4men with rifles
and a load of plastic explosives. :mp5:

Since its formation, there have been no SAS men killed in combat. Ever.

Then there's the Gurkhas. Better make sure you've got your boots tied up properly boys ;).


That's bullshit, and if you remember from the news a while back when that stupid army major got his troops taken hostage by the West Side Boys in Africa somewhere, the SAS went in a had a man killed. Also, there were the numerous guys killed in G.W 1 (See Bravo Two Zero). No unit can have 0% K.I.A rating as, unfortunately, that's the nature of war, people get killed indiscrimanently.

I agree about the Gurkhas though, those guys really kick ass.

An mate of mine who was in the falklands told me that argentinian conscripts were "motivated" by thier officers by being told that if captured by the ghurkas, they would be eaten!

But the SAS have been named possibly the best Special Forces in the world.

most of the ones you named all have certain areas...etc i think GSG-9 are mountain rangers.

SAS are trained in all aspects of covert warfare.
The GSG-9 is the German anti-terror unit of the Bundesgrenzschutz. Like an über SWAT unit. They are the uniformed police of the federal government.

Yeah, the SBS are a more elite unit than the SAS, and more akin to the Navy SEALs in their m.o. Personally, I voted British, because, all bias aside, I honestly believe that the SAS is a more professional and dedicated fighting force than the US forces. Since its formation, there have been no SAS men killed in combat. Ever.



Oh?
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/memorial.html

As I recall wasn't the first SAS mission a total balls up with half the parachutes failing to open...

R.SM I can't belive you said that the SAS had been wounded but not shot. How did they get wounded then? did some pillock throw a rock at them?

I mentioned a couple of pages back the deaths of 3 men in team Bravo 2 Zero.

Vince Phillips (died of exposure to extreme cold conditions)
Bob Consiglio (Shot through the top of the head, the bullet exited from the back of the torso)
Legs Lane ( Hypothermia)

And if no SAS man has died explain why there is a SAS regimental cemetary in Hereford. :headbang:

well Daistallia 2104 you put us in our place ( again :( )
but let us not biker whos nation has the best spec forces(that is not what this thread is meant to be about, the poll i threw in to see how it works etc)
but instead just chat amoungst ourselves on the armys and/or spec forces of the world. :D

Grow up and quit whining already. :rolleyes:


As a for the Ghurkas, I reacall a story from WWII (apocraphal but funny):
It seems British high command needed some special missiopn taken care of.
the only available unit in theater was a Ghurka regiment. An office gave a breifing that covered the basics: "You'll be dropped over objective X at 500 feet, blah, blah, blah, we're looking for volunteers." About half the Ghurkas at the breifing voluntereed. The briefing office commented that he had expected more volunteers from such a storied unit. The Brit Ghurka officer replied "Well you might want to let them know they'll have parachutes...."

:D

My favorite SF unit! (http://www.blindspider.com/livejournal/A-Team.jpg)

Not only have they never been defeated in battle, but they have done a load of public good.

BTW I always had a soft spot for a little good old fashioned T n A.

My favorite SF unit! (http://www.blindspider.com/livejournal/A-Team.jpg)

Not only have they never been defeated in battle, but they have done a load of public good.

BTW I always had a soft spot for a little good old fashioned T n A.

Enough of this about the TNA. Who brought it up anyway?

the first or was it second? operation of the s.a.s resulted in the loss of nearly 80 german troops
this is due to 12 s.a.s chaps in a landy 4fokers were destroyed along with fuel for 18 panzers :D

Grow up and quit whining already. :rolleyes:


As a for the Ghurkas, I reacall a story from WWII (apocraphal but funny):
It seems British high command needed some special missiopn taken care of.
the only available unit in theater was a Ghurka regiment. An office gave a breifing that covered the basics: "You'll be dropped over objective X at 500 feet, blah, blah, blah, we're looking for volunteers." About half the Ghurkas at the breifing voluntereed. The briefing office commented that he had expected more volunteers from such a storied unit. The Brit Ghurka officer replied "Well you might want to let them know they'll have parachutes...."

:D

when you stop picking on me i will. he he he. was it you who put the bomb in my sadwich?

when you stop picking on me i will. he he he. was it you who put the bomb in my sadwich?

Not him, it was the R.S.M!

Not him, it was the R.S.M!

remind me to have him shot

as we know the british armed forces are highly trained, able to operate under any conditions. in 5 years our troops get the JAVELIN anti tank missile launcher wareas america are sticking with LAWS until 2010
Actually, the US Armed Forces have been using the Javelin for several years now. It replaced the Dragon, which has been in use since 1970 -- and the Dragon had replaced the LAW.

Without question the world's most capable military is that of the United States. Pound-for-pound, though, based on spending and size, it is the IDF. They've never lost a war.

Actually, the US Armed Forces have been using the Javelin for several years now. It replaced the Dragon, which has been in use since 1970 -- and the Dragon had replaced the LAW.

MBT LAW LIGHT ANTI-TANK WEAPON, UNITED KINGDOM
The Main Battle Tank and Light Armour Weapon, MBT LAW, developed by Saab Bofors Dynamics, was selected in May 2002 for the UK Army Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon (NLAW). The portable, short range, fire-and-forget system will enter service in 2006 to replace the British Army's existing Insys LAW-80 system that is reaching the end of its operational life.

The Development is a joint venture between Sweden and the UK, and the UK MOD Defence Procurement Agency will procure the systems for Sweden. It has been estimated that the UK requirement may be for up to 20,000 systems for the UK Army, Royal Marines and Royal Air Force Regiment.

TEAM MBT LAW
Both launcher and missile development are carried out at Saab Bofors Dynamics facilities at Eskilstuna and Karlskoga in Sweden using the expertise gained on anti-armour systems such as the Carl-Gustaf system, the AT4 CS confined spaces weapon and the Bill anti-tank missile.

Thales Air Defence is the major UK partner, leading Team MBT LAW which includes 14 UK subcontractors for the manufacture of the weapon system. Final assembly and test is carried out at the Thales Air Defence facilities in Belfast.

The missile's inertial measurement unit is manufactured by BAE Systems at Plymouth. BAE Systems has constructed a new semiconductor facility at Plymouth to manufacture the silicon rate sensors within the IMU. The new facility duplicates the production line at BAE Systems' joint venture company, Silicon Sensing Systems, in Japan where the sensors are in mass production.

FR-HiTEMP, Titchfield, is responsible for the manufacture of the control fins and actuators. Raytheon Systems Limited, Glenrothes, and Thales Missile Electronics, Basingstoke, manufacture electronics assemblies and the proximity fuse. National Plastics Aerospace, Coventry, is responsible for the plastic and composite mouldings. Skeldings, Smethwick, manufacture the system's special purpose springs. Express Engineering of Gateshead, Portsmouth Aviation, EPS Logistics Technology, Leafield Engineering of Bristol and Metalweb in Birmingham are also major partners in the MBT LAW consortium.

WEAPON INFORMATION
The soldier can bring the missile system from the carry position to the firing position and make it ready to fire in less than 5 seconds. The soldier discards the launcher after firing and can retain the night sight if needed.

The 115/150mm calibre launcher is of composite material construction. The launcher is fitted with the gunner's optical sight, a foldaway launch device, handles and firing mechanism, battery package, carrying straps and a firing support. A mounting rail attached to the launcher is for attaching any night sight.

OPERATION
The gunner can break off and start up a combat sequence any number of times. The missile can be deployed at targets at ranges down to 20m and to over 600m. The missile can also be launched immediately without tracking when an unexpected target appears.

The MBT LAW has a soft launch and can be fired from confined spaces such as from inside buildings and vehicle hatches, and from all positions and angles up to ±45°. The flight time to a 400m range is less than 2 seconds. The initial muzzle velocity is 40m/s. The maximum missile velocity is below the speed of sound.

GUIDANCE SYSTEM
In the Predicted Line of Sight (PLOS) mode, the gunner tracks the target for 3 seconds and the missile's guidance electronics makes a record of the gunner's movement as he aims and computes the flight path to the predicted position of the target. It is unnecessary for the gunner to consider the range or angular speed of the target. After launch the missile flies autonomously to the target. The missile's position in its trajectory always coincides with the target irrespective of range.

MODES OF OPERATION
The soldier selects top attack mode to engage tanks and armoured vehicles in order to strike the least armoured area on the vehicle's roof. In the overfly top attack (OTA) mode, the missile flies at about 1m above the line of sight. The missile's sensor initiates the warhead above the roof of the target.

The soldier can select the direct attack (DA) mode to engage light vehicles, buildings and bunkers. In the direct attack (DA) mode the missile flies directly along the line of sight towards the target. The missile fuze system is disconnected and the warhead detonates upon impact, after a short delay.

WARHEAD CHARACTERISTICS
The missile has an active magnetic and optical sensor activated proximity fuse. The sensor data is analysed to match the known relevant target criteria before warhead initiation. The missile warhead is activated even against aluminium targets and partially concealed targets.

In conventional overflight missiles a keyhole effect resulting in reduced penetration into the target is caused by a shaped charge jet which develops during the missile flight. The MBT LAW warhead, similar to the BILL 2 missile warhead, incorporates a dynamically compensated shaped and copper lined charge to retain the penetration characteristics. The charge is 102mm in diameter.

TRAINING PACKAGE
The training package for the UK MoD includes drill rounds, an indoor trainer, a laser-based Short Range and Field Trainer, a Weapons Effect Simulator, dummy rounds and an Ammunition Technical Officer's (ATO) training package.

An indoor trainer (IDT) is for use in a Dismounted Close Combat Trainer (DCCT), both systems being supplied and manufactured by FATS Ltd Lincoln, UK and Atlanta, USA. The laser based Short Range and Field Trainer (SR&FT) supplied by Thales Air Defence Systems includes the common weapon replica fitted with NOPTEL laser technology.

The Weapon Effect Simulator (WES) which also uses the common weapon replica, is based on the technology of Saab Training Systems' BT 46 laser simulator used to simulate the weapon characteristics of a number of weapon systems. It is used for force-on-force training in the British Army's Tactical Effect Simulator Exercises (TESEX) for example on the UK MOD training grounds at Salisbury plain.

im shure that that above is true but realisticly i could not b arsed to read it lol

Are the Gurkhas considered British? If they are, I vote Britain.

Stuff about the LAW.
That's really fantastic, but what does that have to do with what I said?

Are the Gurkhas considered British? If they are, I vote Britain.

yes the gurkhas are considerd british

That's really fantastic, but what does that have to do with what I said?

well your faced with a problem then arnt you.
either read it and maybe iv wasted a few minutes of your time
or dont.

im jokin lol COL

anyway moving swiftly on, anyone know about smartrucks

im jokin lol COL

so was i. but please dont say lol it anoys me

i think there kool how about u???

R.S.M i suggest you pop along to the t.n.e club bar thread.

i think there kool how about u???

looks like usual cheap yank tat, which will probably turn out to be good now i have said that