The Roman Catholic Military
I have noticed that this idea has been tossed around alot...
The question for this thread is...
Should the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church as a whole be in control of it's own military force, for purposes of defending it's followers and missionaries in foriegn countries as well as a peacekeeping and peacemaking force in countries where religion and people are being opressed...?
Should it happen? Or is it a bad idea...?
No, if the Vatican had a military that got involved in another nation without permission then it would be an act of war
The Abomination
15-02-2005, 12:39
Hell, I think it'd be a good idea. Expand the Swiss Guard into a truly neutral independent mercenary force that has no political leanings at all. Sounds a pretty good idea.
Einsteinian Big-Heads
15-02-2005, 12:39
I am Catholic Through and through, and I respond with an emphatic
NO
Look at what we did last time we had a military, we ruled the whole western world, and I think the americans would be mighty peeved if we took their job :D
Schoeningia
15-02-2005, 12:42
Should the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church as a whole be in control of it's own military force, for purposes of defending it's followers and missionaries in foriegn countries as well as a peacekeeping and peacemaking force in countries where religion and people are being opressed...?
I miss the point:
And to opress people and countries who don't agree with the catholic faith.
Tagmatium
15-02-2005, 12:44
Isn't the Swiss Guard the Vatican's military. I'm not Catholic so won't really know.
Mythotic Kelkia
15-02-2005, 12:47
The Swiss Guard is not considered to belong to any larger force, but is instead the army of the sovereign state of the Vatican. The force is specifically limited to a hundred soldiers only and currently consists of 4 officers, 23 NCOs, 70 halberdiers, 2 drummers, and a chaplain, all with an equivalent Italian army rank. Although the guards are fully trained and equipped in modern weaponry and tactics, they also receive instructions in using the sword and halberd.
The guards must be Roman Catholic males of Swiss nationality who have completed basic training with the Swiss military and can obtain certificates of good conduct. Recruits must be between 19 and 30 and at least 174 cm (5ft 9in) tall.
From Wikipedia.
I miss the point:
And to opress people and countries who don't agree with the catholic faith.
sigh...read carefuly lol...
Where RELIGION and PEOPLE are being opressed...
Vangaardia
15-02-2005, 13:09
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. No way no how do you let an organization like that have a military. Another set of crusades is all we need. As long as they stay in their little part of the world and say their prayers and light candles have vigils etc. they are not killing people.
Jeruselem
15-02-2005, 13:13
The Popes didn't really have their own armies as such. They tended to get someone else to do their Crusading for them. I don't regard the Vatican Guard as a military force, more like sentries.
Schoeningia
15-02-2005, 14:08
Where RELIGION and PEOPLE are being opressed...
Aha, so religion and opression exclude each other?
You know, many people are being opressed BY religion.
What would the Vatican army do in that case?
Swimmingpool
15-02-2005, 14:18
A terrible idea. Look what happened the last time the Vatican had its own army. A thousand years of war in Europe.
Tagmatium
15-02-2005, 14:23
Surely the Catholics don't need their own army, as they live in countries which have armies. It would be regarded by non-Catholics as dangerous and be thought as a threat. This would lead to God only knows what, as other religions gather their forces. Look at the Danites (I think) of the Mormons of the 1800's, and how people thought they were a threat to them.
The State of It
15-02-2005, 14:25
The Pope? How many divisions has he got?
- Stalin, upon hearing The Pope had criticised him.
Rheinlandistan
15-02-2005, 14:29
Ooh...cool....templars! :sniper: :sniper:
GOD NO!
Can you imagine anything worse than a load of gullible idiots following blindly the words of their priests and going to war?
Tagmatium
15-02-2005, 15:52
The irony of you saying "God".
GOD NO!
Can you imagine anything worse than a load of gullible idiots following blindly the words of their priests and going to war?
Are you implying that all catholics are 'gullible idiots'?
Or merely that all soldiers are?
And why would it be necessary for this army to go to war? There are plenty of countries in the world that don't feel random aggression a necessary part of foreign policy.
Tagmatium
15-02-2005, 16:09
The point of a military is to fight war, otherwise it is a glorified police force. Again, there is no need for a singlarly Catholic army.
Well waht's wrong with having a glorified police force that's called an army.
And even if it is an army, then it doesn't mean that it'll go looking to start wars.
Super-power
15-02-2005, 20:54
The RCC should NOT have a military - too great a chance of abuse of power . . .
Schrandtopia
15-02-2005, 21:27
The RCC should NOT have a military - too great a chance of abuse of power . . .
well, technicaly it already does
along with the swiss guard the Pope has control over elements of the Italian and Spainish army along with the ability to call Catholic men to war (quite a few would answer)
so the real question isn't whether or not the Vatican should have a military but Whether or not they should use the one the currently have
I think, in a limited sense, they should
if the Pope could stop a genocide when he knows the UN or a western power won't do it first why shouldn't he?