NationStates Jolt Archive

Poll'll be up in a minute.

Johannes Gutenberg. And Hitler.

Jesus, George Washington, Otto von Bismark.

I obviously missed some important people. Anyone significant that should have been in the poll?

I'm going to have to also say Gutenburg.

I obviously missed some important people. Anyone significant that should have been in the poll?
Johannes Gutenberg. He only invented the printing press.

Johannes Gutenberg. He only invented the printing press.

:headbang:

I'm going to have to also say Gutenburg.
Why? The Chinese invented a pinting press at least 1000 years before Gutenburg.

A few of those people didn't influence that much. For example Marting Luther King Jr. He only influenced America really, and then not really to the extent that he is credited for.

I'd probably have to say............er............bugger, my minds gone blank.

I'd probably go with Gutenberg.

Or else one of those 16th/17th century guys like Newton and Copernious.

A few of those people didn't influence that much. For example Marting Luther King Jr.
Well. Luther did have a tremendouse impact on history. Not the King jr one though.

its hard to argue with the three religious figures and their impact. Buddha, Christ and Mohammed and their writings (or the writings of them) have influenced entire civilizations for millenia. No matter your opinion of them, its hard to underestimate their impact on history.

Marx and Adam Smith probably rank right behind the religious figures, especially since political philosophy is a form of religion itself (faith in a believe system that is in part emotionally based). Communism and Market Capitalism (Wealth of Nations has been around for a long time, although capitalism goes back to before the Greeks or even earlier perhaps) are ideas that transcind the time that they originated from.

Although they don't provide the comfort religion does, which is why the religious types have more impact.

The conquerors and the inventors, the fathers of nations, all are important, but not to the extent of the religious figures.

by the way, on the Chinese invention of the printing press. They also invented gunpowder, ships with watertight doors and bulkheads and lots of other things. But they didn't make widespread use of them in their civilization and the impact was lost. The ideas later reached the West, which immediately adapted those ideas and made widespread use of them.

China may have even reached the Western Hemisphere. But they didn't do anything with that discovery either.

Some reason Gavrillo Princip isnt there?

Others would be Amerigo Vespucci (imagine a world without the word "america").

Some reason Gavrillo Princip isnt there?

Yes, there is. I always forget his name. :(

Jesus, probably.

Although I don't particularily like the religion which resulted from his teachings, or the book in which the tenets of that religion are written, he's had an unparalleled amount of influence on the world. For both good and bad.

Some reason Gavrillo Princip isnt there?

Others would be Amerigo Vespucci (imagine a world without the word "america").
America was just named after him. The German cartagropher(sp) Martin Waldseemüller called it America for the first time.

Well. Luther did have a tremendouse impact on history. Not the King jr one though.

Yeah. Splitting religions up is impressive. I personally like the man.

I'd either say Ogg, the guy who invents fire and the wheel in movies, or Moses, who tricked the Jews into thinking they were still a living religion.

Whoever first produced a surplus crop, thereby allowing religion to start.

Whoever first produced a surplus crop, thereby allowing religion to start.

What about the first bloke to produce a crop at all, therefore allowing life to stop moving and settle down.

Whoever first produced a surplus crop, thereby allowing religion to start.

Thus, Ogg. Get him on the poll why don't you?

The Buddha has way more followers than Jesus. Gotta go with him. That, and the I Ching has influenced more cultures and more peoples than the Bible. Not to mention the fact that Jesus, himself, was influenced by Buddhism during his time in India. (The Brahmans called him Issa)

I'd either say Ogg, the guy who invents fire and the wheel in movies

Nah ... the wheel is a bronze age invention, probably Asian. Chances are his name would have been more suited to that. Fire isn't an invention as it occurs naturally.

Instead of Jesus, I'd say the person who invented him. And probably the guy who invented the bible and distributed it.

Nah ... the wheel is a bronze age invention, probably Asian. Chances are his name would have been more suited to that. Fire isn't an invention as it occurs naturally.

Like Oao?.

Instead of Jesus, I'd say the person who invented him. And probably the guy who invented the bible and distributed it.

Paul McCartney?.

I voted Adam Smith even though I am Communist, I believe he has had the greatest impact.

Jesus Christ:

By accidently founding a death cult by being executed, he inadvertantly destroyed all that was good in European culture and has thereby reduced the entire world to a snivelling mess.

:mp5:
:sniper:

"Which person had the greatest impact in history?"

The nameless Homo Sapeins who first worked up enough courage to pick up a burning stick and discover that he or she could make the fire ignite another stick.

Like Oao?.

Probably ... lemme get my phone book out .... :D

However, it does seem like the wheel first appeared in Asia around 8,000 BCE, the wheel was also independently invented by the ancient Iraqis around 3,500 BCE and also independently by the Europeans around 1,400 BCE, and completely unheard of in the Americas until the Europeans started showing up.

I guess there would be no singular inventor.

Probably ... lemme get my phone book out .... :D

However, it does seem like the wheel first appeared in Asia around 8,000 BCE, the wheel was also independently invented by the ancient Iraqis around 3,500 BCE and also independently by the Europeans around 1,400 BCE, and completely unheard of in the Americas until the Europeans started showing up.

I guess there would be no singular inventor.

Didn't the Mayans have wheels?. But kinda didn't use them to move stuff. What with mountains and jungles and stuff.

The very first being(s) to be a true Homo Sapien. Without them, no human race!

Aside from them...
Jesus(followers are still screwing others out of civil rights, trying to force their religion upon the entire world, and not practicing what they preach centuries later)
Ogess, the cavewoman who invented agriculture.(who says it had to be a man?)
Buddha(with the impact being far more positive)
Shangao, inventor of fireworks/gunpowder(probably not their real name, but it sounds Chinese)
Whoever was the first person to think "Hey! We should be PRESERVING the environment, not destroying it!"

Didn't the Mayans have wheels?. But kinda didn't use them to move stuff. What with mountains and jungles and stuff.

They may have had them as mill-stones, but I don't remember. Looking into it.

The very first being(s) to be a true Homo Sapien. Without them, no human race!



I wouldn't call Homo Sapiens truly human. So I pick Homo Sapiens Sapiens. But I already picked. Whatever.

Nikola Tesla, invented AC electricity when DC was thought to be the only type possible. Gave us the electric motor and generator that make modern life possible.

Whoever first produced a surplus crop, thereby allowing religion to start.

there was religion before agriculture

Christ stole most of his ideas from Buddha, so, you know...

Fire isn't an invention as it occurs naturally.

no, but the homo erectus or ergaster that figured out that fire wasn't just punishment from the angry sky spirits, but could be controlled (and then the one that later figured out it could be created) did us all a great big favor.

Ogess, the cavewoman who invented agriculture.(who says it had to be a man?)

agriculture wasn't exactly invented. and certainly not by people who lived in caves. more of a long drawn out accident repeated in several places.

The Serbian who killed Franz Ferdinand the third.

Causing world war I, The Russian revolution, and the rise of Fascism(which led to world war II, the Isareali-Palistian conflict, the cold war, and shaped our modern world.

Leave it to two stupid polacks to fuck up the world.

The Serbian who killed Franz Ferdinand the third.

Causing world war I, The Russian revolution, and the rise of Fascism(which led to world war II, the Isareali-Palistian conflict, the cold war, and shaped our modern world.

Leave it to two stupid polacks to fuck up the world.
"So if you're lonely,
You know i'm here waiting for you,
I'm just a crosshair,
I'm just a shot away from you
And if you leave here
You leave me broken shattered alive
I'm just a crosshair
I'm just a shot..then we can die

I know I wont be leaving here with you

I say don't you know
You say you don't know
I say... take me out
I say you don't show
Don't move time is slow
I say... take me out"

Oh wait, wrong Franz Ferdinand.
Or is it?

Probably ... lemme get my phone book out .... :D

However, it does seem like the wheel first appeared in Asia around 8,000 BCE, the wheel was also independently invented by the ancient Iraqis around 3,500 BCE and also independently by the Europeans around 1,400 BCE, and completely unheard of in the Americas until the Europeans started showing up.

I guess there would be no singular inventor.

(Yes, I've done it before. Yes, I'll do it again):

/rant on
THERE IS NO BLOODY THING AS BCE!! YOU'RE STILL MEASURING FROM THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, JUST SAY AD!!

/rant off

Leonardo Da Vinci

Julius Caesar

Winston Churchill

i chose Mohamad mainly cause im muslim, but still, it seems that most of our future and present day is going to be based on his teachings of Islam. I mean, in a bad sense, if Islam never existed, this whole muslim terrorist and oil fight thing wouldnt be the same, so it did kind of effect us, no?

oh but a reading the pole question i realise its whos the most influential hmmmm... i guess i would have chosen Jesus, we also respect him and believe in him in our religion, and Abraham too, actaully, practically everything in christianity, sad to think that they are so far from us and detached even though are religions are so close, and vice versa too :(

"So if you're lonely,
You know i'm here waiting for you,
I'm just a crosshair,
I'm just a shot away from you
And if you leave here
You leave me broken shattered alive
I'm just a crosshair
I'm just a shot..then we can die

I know I wont be leaving here with you

I say don't you know
You say you don't know
I say... take me out
I say you don't show
Don't move time is slow
I say... take me out"

Oh wait, wrong Franz Ferdinand.
Or is it?

IT is sooooooooo true. Best post of the year, if there was such a vote.

I would say Julius Caesar, or perhaps Emperor Qin. They both brought in conditions that allowed Rome and China to prosper, allowing many of the discoveries made in both countries to happen.

Tupac. "The rose that grew from concrete". Fo sho'.

I would have to say. . .me

Well, not yet, of course.

Was Adam on the list? He and Eve made quite a mess for us. Rrrrgh! :headbang:

there was religion before agriculture

There was faith and belief before agriculture, but no organised religion. To have religion you have to have enough of a surplus food supply to support the preisthood. This production of a surplus only came about with agriculture.
I am not talking about shmen or witch doctors or other tribal belief structures I am referring to churches and priests and tithes and taxes etc.

I never said the influence was good, did I.

The Serbian who killed Franz Ferdinand the third.

Causing world war I, The Russian revolution, and the rise of Fascism(which led to world war II, the Isareali-Palistian conflict, the cold war, and shaped our modern world.

Leave it to two stupid polacks to fuck up the world.


Gavrilo Princip, as I said earlier.

And he wasnt a polack you geographic idiot. He was a dirty slav.

Absolutely Aristotle... (other)

No doubt about it.

It has to be Jesus Christ. I don't know how anyone could vote otherwise. Even if you don't believe in him (like me) you have to admit that no one has changed the cousre of human hitory more. Over 1 billion people believe he is the messiah, and his religion dominated over Europe for 1000 years (the middle ages). Even today, the world's most powerful nation is lead by a "Christian" (unfortunately), and always has been. No one person has been directly or indirectly resposnible for more wars, revolutions, etc.

What about Moses? Jesus was Jewish after all. Or Abraham (the first Jew).
lmao

Concerning Gavrilo Princip...

First, it is polak, not polack. I don't know how you people write it, but it pisses me off when I hear morons use the term, especially when degrading somebody that is most likely more accomplished in America than they are. Just say 'pole.' It's fine, really.

Second, you cannot blame all of those events and all of those millions of lives taken on one person and one event. It simply does not work that way, seeing as we are all the result of some small action taken in the past, which grew out exponentially.

Lastly, World War 1 was a disaster waiting to happen. It's like packing a can of antimatter with no suspension device, three tons of gasoline, 5 tons of c4 and an active nuke into a playground, then giving 10 6-year-olds a lighter apiece and letting them go wild. All you need is a spark...

It has to be Jesus Christ. I don't know how anyone could vote otherwise. Even if you don't believe in him (like me) you have to admit that no one has changed the cousre of human hitory more. Over 1 billion people believe he is the messiah, and his religion dominated over Europe for 1000 years (the middle ages). Even today, the world's most powerful nation is lead by a "Christian" (unfortunately), and always has been. No one person has been directly or indirectly resposnible for more wars, revolutions, etc.

I'm not Christian, but I think Christ was a good man. His ideas and his 'reality', have deeply effected the world...on a very interpetitive level. People took his words and subjectively made them their own views; which effectively brought massive wars and the dark age...with some who actually practiced his words. Honestly, I think Christ should have said something that amount to, 'This is a personal goal of your life, and it's up to you to understand it.'....Although religion is not that way, and unfortunately it's used as a weapon against those whom are better off using their own brain. Maybe not...?

Aristotle's philosophy was the basis of all major civilizations past him. His concepts laid down the foundation for technology and expansion. Human reason owes him quite a bit.

Ironically, it was Christianity that effectively ended that era, by bring down 'reason' with a heavy-hand (not that Christ endorsed that). Had the words of Christ reached only those whom practiced them, then civilization would have gone far beyond the current one.

There was faith and belief before agriculture, but no organised religion. To have religion you have to have enough of a surplus food supply to support the preisthood. This production of a surplus only came about with agriculture.
I am not talking about shmen or witch doctors or other tribal belief structures I am referring to churches and priests and tithes and taxes etc.

i don't know that i see much of a distinction between shamanistic systems of belief in the spiritual realm and systems with a larger number specialized religious positions. they certainly had organized religious practices and beliefs and rituals.

and, of course, non-agricultural groups were more than capable of providing for people who didn't hunt or gather for themselves - and did so regularly.

Aristotle, he invented Western Thought and for better or worse, that was a biggie.

Jesus has more followers than any other figure in world history with 2,000,000,000 christians worldwide... but the Roman emperor Constantine is responsible for Christianity as it exists now for ordering the council of Nicea which drafted the bible.

Ayn Rand, for better or worse (worse imho) comes in right after Jesus on influencing the modern world. She invented the profit is its own justification corporate philosophy that now is competing with Christianity for domination of people's minds.

Charlemange is underrated. People forget that Europe would be completely Islamic without him, for better or worse. We certainly wouldn't be having problems with Islamic extremists attacking infidels if there were no infidels.

Just my two cents. Oh and Galileo Galilee for inventing science so I can eat my sugar-free cookies while sitting in my hybrid car watching atom bombs explode.

Personally, I think Saint Paul.

Jesus may have been the savoir, but Saint Paul elaborated on it, told everybody about it and in a very real sense, created Christianty, which, -for better or worse- completely changed the face of the Western World.

And, when the West began to ignore geographic bounderies, the entire world.

There is also a strong argument to be made about Constantine, because without Christianity's connection to the Roman Empire, it would have been more tough.

Edit: Gavrilo Princip

WW1 was the worst thing that ever happened to the western world, IMO.

I say Siddhartha, simply because he is the progenitor of the most peace loving religion in the entire world. Now, before you say "well Jesus was a peaceful man too," just remember how many wars and genocides that belief (or non-belief) in him caused. Not to say that Buddhinsm isn't entirely bloodless either, but more atrocity has been comitted in the name of Jesus Christ throughout history than any other figure in religion.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the current persecution of non-christians and Gays in the USA. So, Christ's own message has been soiled by his followers, whereas Siddhartha's has been less so.

So there!

;)

I'm not even Christian, but non-Cristians are definately not being persecuted, and if anything, Christians are being persecuted by idiots missreading the first ammendment.

The gay mairage thing is slightly more complicated than just religeon.

The other coments about Christianity are historicly accurate to my knowledge, though claiming it is responsible for more such atrocities than all the other religons is a bit presumtuous.

This is all off topic though.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the current persecution of non-christians and Gays in the USA. So, Christ's own message has been soiled by his followers, whereas Siddhartha's has been less so.

So there!

;)

The crusades were not solely the fault of the Christians.

There is no current persecution of non-Christians...conversely, I would say that the Christian Church is under attack by organizations like the ACLU that want to tear it to shreds and degrade all morals we hold dear.

Gays are not persecuted as extensively as you might like to think...in fact, they are almost idolized for being 'brave and progressive,' while trying to get an edge over heterosexual marriages, and trying to gain the right to adopt children and get married by Christian Churches, which do not condone those efforts.

Any violence against a gay man, whether intentional or not in regards to his sexual orientation, is widely publicized by the media, covering up other, more pertinent stories.

Children in schools are being taught extensively about gay sex (including positions and such) so as to be more 'accepting.'

Christian children and people who do not recognize the rights of gays to marry are frowned upon and labelled as bigots or nazis.

Try watching a sitcom or TV show without coming across some kind of gay inuendo meant to brainwash you into taking sides.

And you tell me that the gays are persecuted...there used to be a day when I really didn't care about gays...but when these people start trying to shovel filth into my brain and calling me a bigot, I get pissed.

(Yes, I've done it before. Yes, I'll do it again):

/rant on
THERE IS NO BLOODY THING AS BCE!! YOU'RE STILL MEASURING FROM THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, JUST SAY AD!!

/rant off

Ummmm ... no ... I'm measuring from an imagined 0. "Christ" is not a term I accept, but Jesus was born in 4 or 5 CE - not 0 as there was no 0.

I could have just as easily used the Islamic or Hebrew calendar - neither of which have an "AD", but I chose to go the secular route. AD = Anno Domini = Year of our Lord. Whose "Lord"? Certainly not mine. Hence, I will not use it.

The crusades were not solely the fault of the Christians.

What other magical elves were involved? The Crusades would not have happened if there were no Christians.

Gays are not persecuted as extensively as you might like to think...in fact, they are almost idolized for being 'brave and progressive,' while trying to get an edge over heterosexual marriages, and trying to gain the right to adopt children and get married by Christian Churches, which do not condone those efforts.

Gays are not trying to gain the right to be married by Christian churches, gays are trying to gain the right to get married. Christians do not have a lock on marriage, you know. Marriage is not a Christian institution.

Children in schools are being taught extensively about gay sex (including positions and such) so as to be more 'accepting.'

What schools are you talking about? Care to share a source on any curriculum in any US public school, K-12, that has "gay sexual positions" on it?

Christian children and people who do not recognize the rights of gays to marry are frowned upon and labelled as bigots or nazis.

They should be. I choose to call a spade a spade. If you don't like a certain group of people just for something they are, then you are a bigot. Deal with it.

Try watching a sitcom or TV show without coming across some kind of gay inuendo meant to brainwash you into taking sides.

If you make decisions on issues based on sitcoms, then you're already a retard and should probably have your right to vote revoked.

Definitely Karl Marx.

I would say Abram/Abraham/Ibrahim.

As the father of the 3 major religions in the world, he has had the most direct influence of any one person.

Buddha, taking care of the most of the remainder of the people is second.

The guy that invented the wheel.

Nah ... the wheel is a bronze age invention, probably Asian. Chances are his name would have been more suited to that. Fire isn't an invention as it occurs naturally.
I seem to remember the Sumerians beeing creditet with the wheel.

I seem to remember the Sumerians beeing creditet with the wheel.

The oldest wheel found by archaeologists was found in Iraq and dates back to 3,500 BCE. However, there are Chinese texts that speak of wheels earlier. So it's a tough call.

Too bad there wasn't a patent office back then.

I'd say Mohammed for creating a religion that eventually encompased the Middle East, a good chunk of Asia, and even parts of Europe; it's still pretty influential in current world events.

Ummmm ... no ... I'm measuring from an imagined 0. "Christ" is not a term I accept, but Jesus was born in 4 or 5 CE - not 0 as there was no 0.

I could have just as easily used the Islamic or Hebrew calendar - neither of which have an "AD", but I chose to go the secular route. AD = Anno Domini = Year of our Lord. Whose "Lord"? Certainly not mine. Hence, I will not use it.

Your imagined zero corresponds to Anno Domini. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

If you post using another date format, fine. Use the Jewish or Mayan calendar. But you are using Anno Domini. And Jesus was born in AD - by definition.

Every world government ahears to the standard international date format of BC/AD. While there are other calendar systems in use here and there, no official business is done in them on a global level (or usually even national).

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.


That, my friend, is where you're wrong. It isn't always necessarily a duck.

My use of a term in no way connotates its purpose. I do use CE/BCE merely to keep my argument secular. Were I to use BC/AD, then any secular nature of my argument ceases to exist and there is no scholarship outside of secularity, there is only conjecture and faith.

In short, it's not a duck, it is merely a picture of a duck.

Had to say "Jesus CHRIST". The biggest influence in western history is a mythological entity based on superstition. Kind of ironic, funny and sad at the same time.

That, my friend, is where you're wrong. It isn't always necessarily a duck.

My use of a term in no way connotates its purpose. I do use CE/BCE merely to keep my argument secular. Were I to use BC/AD, then any secular nature of my argument ceases to exist and there is no scholarship outside of secularity, there is only conjecture and faith.

In short, it's not a duck, it is merely a picture of a duck.

Are you insinuating something has duck attribute replication technology? If so, all my foie gras needs are solved!! :D

Aha. So do you use Metric Time? If not, everytime you say a day of the week you're paying homage to gods you don't believe in. Thor's day. Wodin's Day. Fria's Day. (Unless you believe in the Norse pantheon??)

What other magical elves were involved? The Crusades would not have happened if there were no Christians.

The Crusades would not have happened if there were no Muslims. Remember what started the first Crusades, the sacking of Jeruselem.


Gays are not trying to gain the right to be married by Christian churches, gays are trying to gain the right to get married. Christians do not have a lock on marriage, you know. Marriage is not a Christian institution.

You're correct. But marriage IS a religous institution. Gays are not trying to get a "civil union" measure passed. Many of the people I know support a "Civil union" for gays, but not marriage. Personally I have no problem in civil unions, my fear is that the next step is that some will bring suit to churches that because of their teachings will never condone homosexuality. You have stated the you are a Muslim. I do not know a great deal about Islam, but I do not believe that Islam oks gay marriage.

What schools are you talking about? Care to share a source on any curriculum in any US public school, K-12, that has "gay sexual positions" on it?

There are school districts that in their sex education ciriculum are teaching about homosexuality. But "gay sexual positions" I don't think so.

They should be. I choose to call a spade a spade. If you don't like a certain group of people just for something they are, then you are a bigot. Deal with it.

Again, you have said you are a Muslim. Is homosexuality condoned by Islam? I am a Christian, as such, my religious beliefs does not condone homosexuality, but I am not the final judge. My personal beliefs is that they should be able to do what they want. Just don't force me to accept or approve of your lifestyle. I will work with them, but if I choose to not associate with them outside of work I should be able to without harrassment or being labeled.

If you make decisions on issues based on sitcoms, then you're already a retard and should probably have your right to vote revoked.

I think the point he is trying to make is that 10 years ago there were no shows that were based on homosexuality i.e "Will & Grace." Homosexuality was rarely mentioned on TV until "Ellen," which was the downfall of the show. Not because she came out, but because after she did it changed from being a comedy about a group of people, it became a show on the homosexuality issue that tried to be funny. It lost it's "comedic edge" after that.

Are you insinuating something has duck attribute replication technology? If so, all my foie gras needs are solved!! :D

Not yet ... but geese now come with patented crotch-seeking technology!

Aha. So do you use Metric Time? If not, everytime you say a day of the week you're paying homage to gods you don't believe in. Thor's day. Wodin's Day. Fria's Day. (Unless you believe in the Norse pantheon??)

Yeah, I'm aware of the deity implications behind our days of the week, but I will use them until a viable secular alternative is given.

But marriage IS a religous institution ... I do not know a great deal about Islam, but I do not believe that Islam oks gay marriage.


I'll just address this real quick and tend to the rest later.

Islam, yes, is against homosexual marriage. However, it doesn't matter what Islam thinks when it comes to matters of State in the US.

Marriage is, in fact, a State institution. You are not "married" unless the State issued marriage license is signed by an official - either religious or secular. If the State does not recognize your marriage, then you get no tax benefits, no property benefits, cannot sign medical care forms, etc etc. It's a State institution.

What about Charles "the Hammer" Martel? HE is the real reason the moors stayed in Spain.

If marriage is a religious institution, why do they conduct them at city hall?

The oldest wheel found by archaeologists was found in Iraq and dates back to 3,500 BCE.
Well, yeah. Thats where the Sumerians lived.
And as long as they don't find an older Chinese wheel I will carry on to credit the Sumerians for the wheel. Texts can be interpreted wrong.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Yeah, I'm aware of the deity implications behind our days of the week, but I will use them until a viable secular alternative is given.

Ever considered First Day, Second Day... ?

John Denver had one of the greatest impacts in history.

Now, as to who had the greatest impact on history...

John Denver had one of the greatest impacts in history.

Now, as to who had the greatest impact on history...

Buddy Holly did too!

Buddy Holly did too!

OOOF!!!

(Hey, you left out the Big Bopper! He'd have a bigger impact than Buddy Holly... he weighed more!)

Which idiots said jesus, when you actually look at chrisianity hes not really that big a figure, youve only got 4 book in the bible out of what 60+ that actually account his life, and they are basically the same story copied 3 times, Johns diffrent kettle of fish but nm about that. All he did was appear, say a few things im discounting the mircles becuase honestly there no proof for them (not discouting jesus existed mind you) then he died, pretty much an obscure figure head of a frankly very very very small sect of judeasim, in hicks ville corner of the Roman empire, Judea was the equivlent of i dont know North Dakota or Norwitch of somthing, nothing ever happend their it wasunt on the border with another empire it wasunt rich, it just filled space. Frankly for the son of god he did a crap job

All the 'credit' for the christian relgion should go to the founders of the early church, no not the disiples they were a bunch of useless layabouts as well, people like st. paul if he did exist, if it wernt for men like him it would of just stayed as tiny little sect of judeaism in galiee or somthing.

YOU WANT MENT WHO HAVE CHANGED THE WORLD DO YA!!!!
Isambard Kingdom Brunel anyone who argues otherwise does so out of a lack of education.

THIS MAN, started the industrial revolution in the U.K pretty much by him self, the U.K was the first country in the world to industrialise, therefore he built the modern world.

Case closed eveyone else is wrong

Jesus Christ, need I say more?


Charles Martel, without him, there would be no modern Europe as we know it, for in 732, in a week long battle, his army of only about 30,000, killed 300,000 out of 450,000 Moorish (muslim) soldiers, and the Moorish king, at the battle of Tours. This saved Europe from Muslim occupation.
Were it not for him, the last 1300 years of history would have been totally different.


Also, John Calvin, he sparked a religious movement which swept Europe, was carried into the America's and South Africa, and many other nations.

I agree on that Charles martel bit allthough ill think youll find the battle of vienna was the actual turing point of the europe vs. the muslim turks series,

But for Jesus, yes you do need to say more, christianity honeslty truely has not been that bit a catalyst for european thinking, yes it stimilated a bit of art i suppose, but it actively repressed the sciences for over 900 years ish 200-1600 wasunt untill the enlightiment that science and art actually kicked off with any real speed, and that was largely an anfront to the catholic church. Besides read my bit on jesus he barely did anything to found the church, he came said a few things to his diciples who where useless, hell they abadon him at evey turn and then he dies, comes back for about half a week and flies off.

Which idiots said jesus, when you actually look at chrisianity hes not really that big a figure, youve only got 4 book in the bible out of what 60+ that actually account his life, and they are basically the same story copied 3 times, Johns diffrent kettle of fish but nm about that.

Not true in the Christian thought I've encountered. What I've been exposed to indicates that the entire New Testament is related to Him (Acts until Revelation are letter/accounts of discussions about how to be faithful to His teachings; Revelation is about Him coming again) and the Old Testament is largely about preperation of the Isrealites for His coming.


All he did was appear, say a few things im discounting the mircles becuase honestly there no proof for them (not discouting jesus existed mind you) then he died, pretty much an obscure figure head of a frankly very very very small sect of judeasim, in hicks ville corner of the Roman empire,

Almost All sects of Judaism were located in "hicks ville corner of the Roman empire". And in Acts there are discussions about whether Christianity is a Jewish derivative or if it's its own creature. In the end, I believe it is deemed extra-Judaism and Gentiles are welcomed in.

Judea was the equivlent of i dont know North Dakota or Norwitch of somthing, nothing ever happend their it wasunt on the border with another empire it wasunt rich, it just filled space. Frankly for the son of god he did a crap job

Well, if you discount His teachings as just 'saying some stuff', refuse that He performed miracles, and don't believe in the Atonement granted by His suffering, then yeah, I agree, He didn't do a very good job. Then again, if you take away the incredibly masterful speeches, leading England in its darkest hour, and taking a large role in organizing the Allies then Winston Churchhill was 'just another' Prime Minister.

Napoleon,

The whole lawsystems of Western Europe are based on it.