NationStates Jolt Archive

This is cut and pasted from a website with many fantastic questions and points this one intrigues me and I wonder if any here can answer it throughly?

I'm told to believe all these terrible and absurd things about God because it is written in the Bible. I'm no expert on the Bible but I notice that there is no "book of God" or "Book of Jesus". The Bible is not written by God but by "prophets" who were allegedly "inspired by God". Essentially, these prophets said "God spoke to me and I'm telling you."

Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that God is illiterate and requires a stenographer (or perhaps there's no publishing company in Heaven). Why else wouldn't God write His own book instead of relying upon mortals (said to be universally sinful and unworthy) to bring His word into the world?

Such a claim by prophets to be a divine middle-man is outlandish to say the least and also contradicts that all are equal in God's eyes. If God speaks to you and not to me, than you are elevated over me.

The divine middle-man theory also makes no sense considering the ability and motivation attributed to God. If God is omnipotent (ability) and desires that we all be saved (motivation) than why not speak to everyone on the planet? Being omnipotent, this should be possible. Assuming for a minute that Christianity is the correct religion and the only path to salvation, the smartest strategy that I can think of would be for God to speak to everyone at once. The dumbest thing that I can think of to do would be to speak to only a few, give them no evidence to back up their claim that "God spoke to me" and expect them on word of mouth to spread the word.

Indeed, I would expect that if God were to speak to everyone on the planet today (not just through road-side billboards but the real thing), 99% of the population of the earth would convert to whatever religion and denomination He endorsed. This would be a much better conversion rate than what exists now, especially if you don't count Catholics as Christian. So why the shell game? "Pick the correct religion and correct holy prophet, sorry there's no evidence to indicate which one." If God loves me, wishes me to be saved, is omnipotent, and answers to no one, than why not dispense with a strategy that obviously isn't working with the majority of the population?

This is cut and pasted from a website with many fantastic questions and points this one intrigues me and I wonder if any here can answer it throughly?

I'm told to believe all these terrible and absurd things about God because it is written in the Bible. I'm no expert on the Bible but I notice that there is no "book of God" or "Book of Jesus". The Bible is not written by God but by "prophets" who were allegedly "inspired by God". Essentially, these prophets said "God spoke to me and I'm telling you."

Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that God is illiterate and requires a stenographer (or perhaps there's no publishing company in Heaven). Why else wouldn't God write His own book instead of relying upon mortals (said to be universally sinful and unworthy) to bring His word into the world?

Such a claim by prophets to be a divine middle-man is outlandish to say the least and also contradicts that all are equal in God's eyes. If God speaks to you and not to me, than you are elevated over me.

The divine middle-man theory also makes no sense considering the ability and motivation attributed to God. If God is omnipotent (ability) and desires that we all be saved (motivation) than why not speak to everyone on the planet? Being omnipotent, this should be possible. Assuming for a minute that Christianity is the correct religion and the only path to salvation, the smartest strategy that I can think of would be for God to speak to everyone at once. The dumbest thing that I can think of to do would be to speak to only a few, give them no evidence to back up their claim that "God spoke to me" and expect them on word of mouth to spread the word.

Indeed, I would expect that if God were to speak to everyone on the planet today (not just through road-side billboards but the real thing), 99% of the population of the earth would convert to whatever religion and denomination He endorsed. This would be a much better conversion rate than what exists now, especially if you don't count Catholics as Christian. So why the shell game? "Pick the correct religion and correct holy prophet, sorry there's no evidence to indicate which one." If God loves me, wishes me to be saved, is omnipotent, and answers to no one, than why not dispense with a strategy that obviously isn't working with the majority of the population?


Some of the many thoughts that drove me towards agnosticism

God does speak to everyone. Just not everybody listens. :)

He must have a very bad articulation then, because there are countless different understandings of "what God says".

Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that God is illiterate and requires a stenographer (or perhaps there's no publishing company in Heaven). Why else wouldn't God write His own book instead of relying upon mortals (said to be universally sinful and unworthy) to bring His word into the world?

It seems to me that God particularly enjoys involving human beings in His work. Perhaps we embrace our own redemption when we serve Him and serve others, rather than being spiritual sponges and simply absorbing our salvation.

Such a claim by prophets to be a divine middle-man is outlandish to say the least and also contradicts that all are equal in God's eyes. If God speaks to you and not to me, than you are elevated over me.

I don't see it that way. In fact, it's kind of a frightening thing to be confronted by God. If you actually read the prophets, you'll find they rarely enjoyed being called.

Indeed, I would expect that if God were to speak to everyone on the planet today (not just through road-side billboards but the real thing), 99% of the population of the earth would convert to whatever religion and denomination He endorsed.

I'd have to disagree. It is human nature to rebel against God. There was a time when humans did know God quite well, face to face. We chose to rebel against Him. There will come a time when God is obvious to the entire world, and most will choose to rebel against Him then as well.

God does speak to everyone. Just not everybody listens. :)


I hate it when you start talking like that, Willamena. And your definition of God isn't the one in the Bible (Which is why is so much more convincing ;) ).

God does speak to everyone. Just not everybody listens. :)

Yet another amazing trait that only relgious individuals possess, the ability to understand a higher being.

Yet another amazing trait that only relgious individuals possess, the ability to understand a higher being.
Considering it is this understanding that leads to belief, is it any wonder?

EDIT: Similarly, I have no particular understanding of cosmology or quantum physics, and no particularly strong beliefs along those lines.

Considering it is this understanding that leads to belief, is it any wonder?

How can you possibly understand a higher being? How can you fathom his existence or intentions?

How can you possibly understand a higher being? How can you fathom his existence or intentions?
Perhaps because I know myself? What I understand is that part of god that touches me, that is a part of me.

This is cut and pasted from a website with many fantastic questions and points this one intrigues me and I wonder if any here can answer it throughly?

I'm told to believe all these terrible and absurd things about God because it is written in the Bible. I'm no expert on the Bible but I notice that there is no "book of God" or "Book of Jesus". The Bible is not written by God but by "prophets" who were allegedly "inspired by God". Essentially, these prophets said "God spoke to me and I'm telling you."

Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that God is illiterate and requires a stenographer (or perhaps there's no publishing company in Heaven). Why else wouldn't God write His own book instead of relying upon mortals (said to be universally sinful and unworthy) to bring His word into the world?

Such a claim by prophets to be a divine middle-man is outlandish to say the least and also contradicts that all are equal in God's eyes. If God speaks to you and not to me, than you are elevated over me.

The divine middle-man theory also makes no sense considering the ability and motivation attributed to God. If God is omnipotent (ability) and desires that we all be saved (motivation) than why not speak to everyone on the planet? Being omnipotent, this should be possible. Assuming for a minute that Christianity is the correct religion and the only path to salvation, the smartest strategy that I can think of would be for God to speak to everyone at once. The dumbest thing that I can think of to do would be to speak to only a few, give them no evidence to back up their claim that "God spoke to me" and expect them on word of mouth to spread the word.

Indeed, I would expect that if God were to speak to everyone on the planet today (not just through road-side billboards but the real thing), 99% of the population of the earth would convert to whatever religion and denomination He endorsed. This would be a much better conversion rate than what exists now, especially if you don't count Catholics as Christian. So why the shell game? "Pick the correct religion and correct holy prophet, sorry there's no evidence to indicate which one." If God loves me, wishes me to be saved, is omnipotent, and answers to no one, than why not dispense with a strategy that obviously isn't working with the majority of the population?

Its not a shell game the Prophets of God are one. They exist in perfect harmony. They speak with the same voice. They come from the same God. They have the same mission. The source of the light is the same. If you put a blue globe over the source of the light the light appears blue, a red globe gives red light. The source of the light does not change.

Perhaps because I know myself? What I understand is that part of god that touches me, that is a part of me.

Fair enough, I can't debate when I have absolutely no clue where you are coming from, or what you are talking about.

Its not a shell game the Prophets of God are one. They exist in perfect harmony. They speak with the same voice. They come from the same God. They have the same mission. The source of the light is the same. If you put a blue globe over the source of the light the light appears blue, a red globe gives red light. The source of the light does not change.

There are inconsistencies in the bible, and there are very many books that are excluded from the bible due to inconsistencies.

It seems to me that God particularly enjoys involving human beings in His work. Perhaps we embrace our own redemption when we serve Him and serve others, rather than being spiritual sponges and simply absorbing our salvation.



I don't see it that way. In fact, it's kind of a frightening thing to be confronted by God. If you actually read the prophets, you'll find they rarely enjoyed being called.



I'd have to disagree. It is human nature to rebel against God. There was a time when humans did know God quite well, face to face. We chose to rebel against Him. There will come a time when God is obvious to the entire world, and most will choose to rebel against Him then as well.


if it is human nature then god must have made us that way

Yet he punishes us eternaly for acting in the way he created us ... that is one mean ass god

Well see there's a good question now. Why doesn't god speak to everybody? Well here is my answer. 'God' does speak to every individual on the planet. Whatever your higher source of intelligence is be it Allah, God, your intuition, your conciouse etc. it speaks to you on a regular basis. But see it isn't a spoken word, you can't hear it as you would music. It may come as a feeling, a dream, a thought, a pain. It can come as anything, however whatever form it comes in it will be made for you to understand. It may require a bit of soul searching but you will ifnd the meaning of it. It seems the most common form are dreams or 'inspirations' and the least common are auditory preceptions. People in this day of age can't wait for anything and in their fast paced lives they have no time to sit and listen to anything their soul tells them and thus it seems that there is no higher plane. How can you listen to anything while your mind is full of chatter. I stopped being a christian around 4 years ago. I respect those who believe in god but i believe that my messages come from my sub-conciouse who isn't restricted to the physical plain like my conciouse is. I do believe in a guiding force and I call it Makhala indeed it is similair to god. But that is my answer to your question.

There are inconsistencies in the bible, and there are very many books that are excluded from the bible due to inconsistencies.

The words of the Messengers are the same. There is only one religion, the religion of God. God sent all of the Divine Messengers to humanity. The inconsistencies are to be expected from a Book that was passed down for generations, translated into different languages and meanings of words continually change. Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, Budhha and today Baha'u'llah come from the same source.