NationStates Jolt Archive

link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Refugee%20Mistreated)
This guy was a refugee living in my home state, and he went to Iraq to visit some relatives.
Now chances are no one's going to take responsibility for it.

Imagine if this happened to you.

And to all you idiots saying that foreigners caught in our prisons don't deserve a trial (there, happy now, I speeled it right), shut the hell up.

I await the results of the investigation.

I don't know how refugee status works here. Wouldn't they have had some sort of identification that could be validated to show that they're from the United States? If not, it seems that they didn't do very much research into what they should expect if they decide to go to Iraq. A call to the secretary of state's office should have been able to get them an overview of what might happen when they enter the country. It sounds like someone didn't do everything they should have. Whether it was the travelers or the solders, I don't know.

So it's his fault because he just assumed that he wouldn't be captured, beaten, and tortured by American soldiers, and told every time he asked what he had done to "shut the fuck up"?

Bear in mind that a rather large number of people going to Iraq "to visit relatives" are actually going there to fight the US soldiers. They have every right to be suspicious, and if necessary, detain people who have suspicious stories or activities. That said, I await the results of the investigation as well.

I think all foreigners deserve trails. It's too hard to get to some of our mountains.

The four agreed to rent a car and driver once they arrived at their final stop, Damascus, Syria. They crossed into Iraq from Syria, and several hours later arrived at a U.S. Army checkpoint near al-Ramadi, al-Hamid said.Mistake #1. Syria is indeed a hotbed for terrorism.

The soldiers also expressed concern about seven cell phones al-Hamid had with him - gifts for his relatives, he said. A man who appeared to be a high-ranking officer then accused the four of being terrorists and ordered soldiers to arrest them, al-Hamid said.Mistake #2 Cell phones are used to trigger car bombs.
A doctor occasionally looked him over, but refused to give him medicine or bandages for his wrist wounds, he said.Lie #1(at least) Any doctor in that situation would give him bandages or medicine if he needed it. Any doctor.

The guy may be innocent, but I doubt it. Still, my post above stands.

Man, i'm Australian and I at first agreed with the war and it's motives (even without the WMD) but now everytime i hear something about the war on terror it's more torture and abuse claims. I think that if someone is a terrorist beyond a shadow of a doubt and that is proven then MAYBE torture could be consider under extreme circumstances in order to save lives. But for a foreign power to kidnapp you, beat you, torture you, humiliate you without any charges against you or any proof that you are a terrorist, it is terrible. I thought the invasion of iraq and afganistan was to preserve peace and freedom? how about law and justice, the US almost act like they are above everyone else because they have bigger guns.

link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Refugee%20Mistreated)
This guy was a refugee living in my home state, and he went to Iraq to visit some relatives.
Now chances are no one's going to take responsibility for it.

Imagine if this happened to you.

And to all you idiots saying that foreigners caught in our prisons don't deserve a trail, shut the hell up.

No. I have no intention of shutting up. However, the article to which you link talks about someone being detained in Iraq, not the US, so your last sentance is moot. It's also flaming, flame-baiting and disrespectful, but that's a matter for the Mods.

It was in Iraq, but it is under our control, thus it is our prison.

Also, if being disrespectful was against the rules, wouldn't we all be banned?

It was in Iraq, but it is under our control, thus it is our prison.
True. But if you check out my post, you'll see that the guy probably deserved it, and a few American soldiers are probably still alive today because he had a really horrible vacation.

So it's his fault because he just assumed that he wouldn't be captured, beaten, and tortured by American soldiers, and told every time he asked what he had done to "shut the fuck up"?

Yes. The secretary of state will issue warnings on countries that are high risk. You'd do well to listen to their warnings and do as much as you can to protect yourself. Otherwise you can be putting yourself in real danger. They make no secret of what could happen and they make the information very accessable. When you leave the country you're on your own.

Let's be fair. He wasn't 'beaten'. An appeal to sympathy isn't going to cut it. Perhaps mistreatment (read: possibly torture, I'm not sure what the administration's definition of it is), and certainly captured; but not beaten.

It was in Iraq, but it is under our control, thus it is our prison.

I could smell that argument coming a mile away. Remember that election they had? We don't control Iraq.

True. But if you check out my post, you'll see that the guy probably deserved it, and a few American soldiers are probably still alive today because he had a really horrible vacation.

It's not the detention that gets me. If he was a security risk they should have detained him. It's the horrible mistreatment which was in no way necessary. The knife cuts, the being unable to go to the bathroom, the putting the handcuffs on so tight that they make you bleed. That was all unnecessary.

well ther ewere alot of innocent victems so far . countless thousands atleast this person i still alive.

It's the horrible mistreatment which was in no way necessary. The knife cuts, the being unable to go to the bathroom, the beatings, the putting the handcuffs on so tight that they make you bleed. That was all unnecessary.If it was as bad as he says, yeah, it was probably excessive. But a lot of that can probably be explained by the fact that the guys watching him are not trained in prison detention, and have a lot of other duties to attend to. We'll see when the investigation comes through though.

I could smell that argument coming a mile away. Remember that election they had? We don't control Iraq.
No, but we do control the american prisons on american bases staffed with american guards.

Man, i'm Australian and I at first agreed with the war and it's motives (even without the WMD) but now everytime i hear something about the war on terror it's more torture and abuse claims. I think that if someone is a terrorist beyond a shadow of a doubt and that is proven then MAYBE torture could be consider under extreme circumstances in order to save lives. See, I think the key part of what you said is "claims." There are a lot of claims, and the guy I pass on the street driving to work every morning may claim to be Jesus, but that doesn't make it so. I'll wait for proof, and until then, some guy with shady credentials trying to penetrate a war zone from a known terrorist country is NOT going to get the benefit of the doubt. Sorry.

So it's his fault because he just assumed that he wouldn't be captured, beaten, and tortured by American soldiers, and told every time he asked what he had done to "shut the fuck up"?

Let's see.

First, what happened to him was indeed horrible. BUT....

From the detention point of view:

1) Four men who claim to not know each other rent a car and cross the border from Syria to Iraq. Foreign terrorists are known to use the same border to cross in to cause trouble. Looks fishy, detain them until you get the info straight.

2) A refugee living in America? How did he get to Syria in the first place? I mean, its not like his Green Card can be used as a Passport. Must have been travelling on his old, Iraqi passport then. Again, I can see wanting to check the story out.

3) Did this happen in the weeks before the election? Might people be overly paranoid about terrorists (excuse me, freedom fighters) trying to cross the border?

4) If you are going to go to Iraq and visit, why the heck go through Syria at all? Kuwait is much safer.

The sad thing is, let us assume he was completely innocent. Sound fair? What if one of the people he met up with had actually been a terrorist? Oops...

But, pending the completion of the Army's investigation into the matter, I'd have to say his side of the story makes it sound like someone was a little overzealous in stopping border traffic. Detaining him would be one thing, questioning him and verifying the story would be expected; leaving scars is another kettle of rotten fish.