NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm just going to start this thread off by setting the stage. I'm not going to get into what I think and what I predict just yet. I want some other's opinions first.

First of all, I'm 3/4 Russian (1/4 British). I was born in Moscow, and lived in west Russia until 1991 when my family moved to America.

Now, under President Putin, Russia seems to be slowly shedding its shell of democracy. All media is under government control, and a good number of general elections are now outlawed. As people protested across Russia this weekend, because of reforms that take away their soviet-era benefits, many Russians and people of all denominations and races are wondering what path Russia is now taking. Is Putin, an ex-KGB agent, the next ironman of Russia? Is this all a bunch of people getting over-excited? What does everyone think?

Yeah, the Russian Pinochet.

Go Русија GO!!!!
It is a very big country and it must be ruled with iron fist (in democratic way!). Russia will be again someone in this world. I think this world need this becouse we have less and less democrasy and you all se that U.S. is new nacy state. God for them, rest drop dead!
:cool: That was not the case when Russia was strong, so: GO RUSSIA GO!

...one would think this would get more replies...since it's happening before your eyes in the world around you.

Perhaps ripping on religions or political parties is just more fun...kinda shows you how the world works today, huh...

Yeah, the Russian Pinochet.

Except Pinochet is right-wing, and Putin is left-wing. Pinochet was an anticommunist, and Putin is a communist.

Putin is a communist.

Eh...not really...

But I think he meant "US supported dictator" in reference to Pinochet.

Putin himself is not that bad, but he is laying a dangerous trap for Russia, especially when his successor takes over. But sooner or later, I feel that a new Russian Revolution will take place. People have had their taste of liberal democracy, and they will never again accept dictatorship for very long. However, whatever Putin does cannot be worse than what was done to Russia in the Soviet Empire.

Russia dont have any debt s any more! It is a democratic country, with many political parties not like US - 2 main and almoust only. Is that democratic? 2 sides (in reality one ) rules the world????
This is bear who has awaken after a long long sleep! Sheeps be awere!
:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Mister Putin his the new.......Ah, what was his name again? You know, that crazy guy.........Anyhow, he's the new him.



See, Putin has always just followed the power. He was in the KGB, but now it worthless, he bails on it.

Putin seems to want to restore the totalitarianism, but without the communism.



Actually, there was a pretty cool discusion about that on this site some time ago.

Although I don't think I could find it now.....

Russia is content and happy under the rule of a Dictator. Only the Intellectuals of Russia feel threatened by him. The average could not give a shit whether it was Dictatorship or they got to vote. Hell, 40% once stated that they wold support a Bolshevik rise to power.

They are nostalgic of the days of glory, and willing to give up their freedom to have it again.

Putin plays a dangerous game, using America to his advantage. He is no fool. KGB does not breed fools.

Watch Russia eagerly and just wait to see what will happen...

No, wait, here it is.


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375596&highlight=Putin

He would have made a good Gestapo officer.
Sorry, but there is something very wrong with the Russian government, the people are so many that it would be very easy for them to overrun the head of state.
I really don't see how they can just sit and do nothing.

I see how.


Would you go out and do something if it would get you locked up, or at least fined about a years salary on some technicality that doesn't even make sense.

Mister Putin his the new.......Ah, what was his name again? You know, that crazy guy.........Anyhow, he's the new him.



See, Putin has always just followed the power. He was in the KGB, but now it worthless, he bails on it.

Putin seems to want to restore the totalitarianism, but without the communism.



Actually, there was a pretty cool discusion about that on this site some time ago.

Although I don't think I could find it now.....

Even if he wanted to, he couldn't build a toltalitarian dictatorship. Russia has one of the world's worse corruption problems, and parts of the country, like parts of Siberia and the North Caucausus, are outside of his control.
That will probably get worse. The Soviets left behind a nation with a terrible environment that is affecting the Russians' heallth in a serious way. The men are among the world's heaviest drinkers and smokers. HIV is making its name known in the country. And women are having very few children. All in all, the Carnegie Institute of Moscow expects Russia to loose a third of its population by 2025, possibly making the country very hard to rule.

I see how.


Would you go out and do something if it would get you locked up, or at least fined about a years salary on some technicality that doesn't even make sense.

Well if nobody does any thing that is the life and world that you will be living in.
The Russians can not be cowards now.

Problem with Putin is that he is doing something very dangerous. While I don't believe he will become dictator(he was KGB, he can resist the alure of power and wealth if he sets his mind to it), his succesor may not be as strong mentally. If he doesn't fix it soon, he will be the last Russian president.

Problem with Putin is that he is doing something very dangerous. While I don't believe he will become dictator(he was KGB, he can resist the alure of power and wealth if he sets his mind to it), his succesor may not be as strong mentally. If he doesn't fix it soon, he will be the last Russian president.
You're right on that part. He went through the last election, however tainted. His term expires in a few years, and I have seen no signs that he wants to become "president for life", or some crap like that.

What is so wrong with Putin making step towards authoritarianism? The freedom of choice includes that, and Putin has immense support. I look forward to President Putins reforms, should they continue I plan to immigrate to russia to live under such policies.

What is so wrong with Putin making step towards authoritarianism? The freedom of choice includes that, and Putin has immense support. I look forward to President Putins reforms, should they continue I plan to immigrate to russia to live under such policies.
Just don't move to Groznyy when you do.

I like putin. He knows that as long as Russia remains a Democracy the more power America will have over her and continue to plunder and loot the country.
He is playing things very slowly but surely. He not going to take Russia back to communism but probably to Fascism. Private property and ownership of business will be allowed.

He has my full support and I throw my support behind him.

Hmm.
Putin doesn't seem quite as bad as it is always said. However, that's not to say he's all great or anything.
Some of these things he's done and said are bad, however, they don't seem to me like the total disaster they're made out to be. To me, they seem more like the ominous rumblings before a storm. If people act now, most liekly Russia could take a turn for the better.

I'm rather sad about Russia's current state. Russia seems a shadow of what it could be...
I'd like to see Russia strong once again, but communism or fascism is not the proper answer. I'd like to see a strong Russia with the people at the helm. A Russia that can stand the test of time.

Go Русија GO!!!
Actually, it is Руссия.. but who cares.
(And yes, Grozny is not part of Russia. It happens to be pretty much inside Russia though.

As for direction Russia is taking - you have to take into account the huge impact so called Oligarchs have on the politics in this country. Given that the alternative to Putin is having country torn up by oligarchs who each have only their own economical interests (just wait a little, and see what happens to Ukrain soon. So, they switched one Oligarch (Kucma) to another (Yuliya Timoshenko, the prime minister. She has far more influence than Yakushenko, and generally was local power behind his campaign), it is not suprising Putin has such a huge support in the country.

Russia has always been a ehm.. fahter knows best state - wheter it was Ivan IV or Peter I, Stalin or Putin. As long as life is getting better for everyone and information given to population is carefully managed, Putin (or his supporters) can remain at power. What is so suprising there?

I have to agree with NA here. Russia is a demographic disaster, reliant on its natural resources to keep whatever is left of the economy afloat. This is usually a characteristic of Third World countries. It is no longer a superpower, nor will it ever be.
As for Putin, he may very well be a fascist but not nearly to the extent of say, the National Bolsheviks.

Putin is far from a communist, indeed his party and others have pushed the Communists to the mere fringes of the Duma.

Putin can be best described as a nationalist, re-imposing rule on Chechnya in the most brutal and sadistic way, that has seen such horrors as The Beslan School Siege as repurcussions.

I would tend to agree that Putin is showing more and more fascist tendancies, and the press is certainly starting to be shut down.

A revolution? I don't know....if the army are disgruntled, then Putin will have problems, and then the world could have problems.

Putin can see the threat from China and America overtaking Russia's influence on the region and the world, and he may be trying to do something about it, by reaffirming an iron grip on Russia and taking them in his modelled direction.

I like putin. He knows that as long as Russia remains a Democracy the more power America will have over her and continue to plunder and loot the country.
He is playing things very slowly but surely. He not going to take Russia back to communism but probably to Fascism. Private property and ownership of business will be allowed.

He has my full support and I throw my support behind him.



Hahahaha! You wish, Crackerjack.

Fascism like hell.

Even if he believed such a thing to be moraly right, he is not a stupid fuck. If he was, he wouldn't be where he is today.

Your Fascism is over, and besides, you just support that because you want to be part of a group, cracker yankee kid. Why don't you join a street gang or something instead? That's what we did in my day when we wanted to belong....Crazy children......bah......

I say this in the most respectfull manner possible.




I suppose you guys are right though, totalitarianism is unlikely. I see him just being there, up top, but not really controlling EVERYTHING, letting corruption go it's course, and just using extortion for the essentials (I.e, oil companies, mayors)




Either way, I don't see him leaving for quite some time.

I have to agree with NA here. Russia is a demographic disaster, reliant on its natural resources to keep whatever is left of the economy afloat. This is usually a characteristic of Third World countries. It is no longer a superpower, nor will it ever be.
I disagree with you on one thing, however. It can recover, but only if it has the will. And that requires a few things that must be done in order, such as:
-cleaning up the judiciary, and making it independent from the rest of the government
-ending corruption among civil servants
-dramatic liberalization of the economy (like privatizing Gazprom)
-rewriting the constitution to make it more democratic, and to equalize power among the free branches. Call Putin a tyrant if you wish, but his actions are completely within the bounds of his constitutional authority

The Russians already have several advantages. They aare very smart, innovative, have experience in industry, and are rife with natural resources. She may never be able to attain superpower status, but at least she can give her citizens a decent country.

You know, call me a bit carried away, but it may be adventageous to divide Russia. The conflict in Chechnya is starting to spread all over the Russian Caucausus, and sooner or later, Russia will be unable to control it. So it is best that the republics in the area secede. They'll probably join into one country, as all the people are Muslims. The exception is the North Ossetians, but their status can be worked out if this is considered.
There is, however, a danger of giving them independence when they want it: it may appear to terrorists that Russia bows to their demands. So I propose this: offer independence in exchange for the surrender of all the terrorists.

It may be necessary to give up more land. Perhaps areas inhabited by Tartars can be let go. However, I'm not sure how much the Russians will want to give up. Indeed, they want to let go of nothing right now, but that may change if change comes to the Kremlin and Russia.

Putin is more moderate than 95% of Russians. Are the protestors against his "reforms" dressed in orange? Does the NPB protestors (National Bolshevik) sound like Western Reform? No, they seem to be carrying soviet flags and wanting the old days back. Capitalism and these other bullshit ideals have all been disastrous failures in Russia. Putin has done some good things such as make oligarchs an endangered species, but he is all talk and no walk. He has brought back a few soviet symbols, made some noise here and there, but he does nothing in foreign policy (he makes even Yeltsin look strong here... yeltsin invaded half of the fUSSR and basically blackmailed the rest lol), and the economy is quite dependent on oil now (not necessarily a bad thing, Europe is starting to depend on Russian gas! Very good lever to keep them out of Russian affairs!).

In other news Yuschenko has followed the proud footsteps of his predecessor Kuchma, sucking up to everyone to get all the benefits while not doing anything. Hes already stated he wont be joining NATO any time soon, while building greater relations with Russia. Lol so much for the enthusiastic campaigns. Guess he realized Russia and Eastern/Southern Ukraine would rip him to pieces if he tried.

You know, call me a bit carried away, but it may be adventageous to divide Russia. The conflict in Chechnya is starting to spread all over the Russian Caucausus, and sooner or later, Russia will be unable to control it. So it is best that the republics in the area secede. They'll probably join into one country, as all the people are Muslims. The exception is the North Ossetians, but their status can be worked out if this is considered.
There is, however, a danger of giving them independence when they want it: it may appear to terrorists that Russia bows to their demands. So I propose this: offer independence in exchange for the surrender of all the terrorists.

It may be necessary to give up more land. Perhaps areas inhabited by Tartars can be let go. However, I'm not sure how much the Russians will want to give up. Indeed, they want to let go of nothing right now, but that may change if change comes to the Kremlin and Russia.Russia will never be divided. Chechnya has been simply pounded into the ground (http://img159.exs.cx/img159/8782/classic8jj.jpg), and is not starting to spread, but merely seeing the terrorists launch a few desperate attacks. The chechens killed something like 140 russian troops in all of 2004, while 150 americans died in iraq in april alone. The area does not want to secede. Chechens have historically been a problem for Russia, but there have been Jihads before (tatars, basmachi), and they were simply exterminated. Regarding the area, the Ingush may have some sympatrhy for the chechens, but dagestan certainly does not, and Ingushetia has not been as "enthusiastic" about the matter as chechnya. Independence will never be given in exchange for the surrender of the terrorists, because the leaders are terrorists, and because russian pride will never allow it. Chechnya will be genocided, exterminated, and liquidated before it gets independence. Last time it just got relocated to Siberia.

Oh, and for every province that wants independence from Russia, theres another one pro russia. In georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia fought for and won de facto independence during the 1990'sSouth Ossetia has said it wants to join Russia, while Abkhazia wants independence. Both are unofficially Russian puppets used to keep Georgia in its place. And then theres Nagorno-Karabakh, the Armenian region of Azerbaijan which with some Russian support got de-facto independence as well. A bit further west theres Transdniestria, the russian part of moldova which split off in 1992 with some assistance from the 14th army.

The tatars got their autonomous Tatrstan and all is well there.

Russia, and to a greater extent Ukraine, are controlled by oligarchs and not a President, or a Dictator, or whatever. The reason the eastern Ukraine wants Kuchma is because life has improved during his terms. Once he got the factories divided up amongst the oligarchs, they started working and life improved. Yushenko has his own oligarchs, so now it'll be two more terms for the industries to be re-divided and started up. Eastern Ukraine knows this and as such hates Yushenko. Western Ukraine has no infrastructure, and as such doesn't give a shit. In Russia, it's the same except Putin is cracking down on the oligarchs. There was a very interesting book (Generation P, Victor Pelevin) about business, advertising, and the government. While I'm sure it isn't as bad as that, it's reminiscent.

On the Chechnya issue:
Russia already tried making it a semi-independent republic. Results: increased crime and other trouble in the area. Part of the Chechens are naturally a violent nomad people, sort of like bandits. This is the part causing trouble, then there are the innocent bystanders.

Chechnya got independence and it invaded Russia (Dagestan) in 1999, then started bombing apartments. Hence if got bombed right back into the ground.

Russia isnt being controlled by oligarchs so much anymore- one of the good things which Putin did. Just look at yukos.
http://www.exile.ru/2004-October-15/feature_story.html not a very serious source, but a good "idiots guide" to the oligarchs and their extinction.

I haven't heard much about this issue, but a move toward totalitarianism is pretty much always a bad thing.

Private property and ownership of business will be allowed.

If you agree with your president. Or atleast keep your mouth shut.

I think that Russia must be ruled with iron fist (in democtatic way as someone already mentioned) But Putin has gone too far. He shouldn't have taken the power to nominate regional governors or judges.

It needs to have a strong centralized government/dictatorship to prevent any further fragmentation.