NationStates Jolt Archive

Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children

This doesn't belong in Moderation.

Your home team will flip for Buffalo Chicken Wings... the latest featured recipe from our roster of temptin' tailgatin' favorites from "grill-iron" expert Rania Harris!

Buffalo Chicken Wings




Cincinnati He Man Chili



Ingredients:
4 large garlic cloves - minced
Garnishes: sour cream / cheddar cheese
3 tbsp. vegetable oil
2 cups College Inn Beef Broth
1/2 cup chili powder
2 cans (16 oz each) Heinz Vegetarian Beans, rinsed and drained
2 jalapeno chiles
2 tbsp. ground cumin
3 large onions
1 tbsp. ground coriander
Salt and fresh cracked black pepper to taste
2 cans beer
4 lbs. lean chopped sirloin
2 cans crushed tomatoes in their juices


Directions:
In a large heavy pot over medium heat, sauté the onions, garlic, and chiles in the oil until onions are translucent, 5 minutes. Crumble the chopped sirloin over the top of the vegetables. Season with salt and pepper; stir in the coriander, cumin and chili powder. Cover and cook until meat is cooked through, about 7 minutes.
Add the tomatoes to the mixture along with the beer and beef stock. Simmer the chili for about 50 minutes in a partially covered pot over medium low heat.

Stir in the Heinz Vegetarian Beans and continue simmering for about 20 minutes longer. For a thicker chili, simmer uncovered and remember to stir the chili occasionally.

Ladle the chili into bowls and top with shredded cheddar cheese and sour cream.


Serves: 8-10


bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

You want my advice?
Defect to North Korea.
Its great, you get a handful of rice every day, and they hardly ever beat you.

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children
here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

if all you are going to do is bitch, please leave as quickly as possible. we really don't need more people wasting time complaining. if you don't have the intelligence or character to help effect positive change then either move to another country or go back to sulking in your mom's basement.

No usa = A Great Peacefull world.

No usa = A Great Peacefull world.
Yup, its peaceful because the KGB tends to kill people who arent.

No usa = A Great Peacefull world.
yeah, because the world was such a utopia before America was founded.

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

if all you are going to do is bitch, please leave as quickly as possible. we really don't need more people wasting time complaining. if you don't have the intelligence or character to help effect positive change then either move to another country or go back to sulking in your mom's basement.
I agree it is a paradox to state words to the effect
"you live in a country that was the first to guarantee and safeguard your right to waste other peoples' time (if they so allow you to) by complaining, if you dont do so in a way that I like, live somewhere else".

No usa = A Great Peacefull world.

Just like it was before 1776. :rolleyes:

I think this random quote that I don't know the source of applies:

"Democracy is the worst possible form of government except for all the others."

I think this random quote that I don't know the source of applies:

"Democracy is the worst possible form of government except for all the others."
Winston Churchill I believe.

Bata']it will kill our grand children
Don't tell me....a giant man-eating hamster! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Don't tell me....a giant man-eating hamster! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Darn. Should have voted Badnarik I guess.

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".

My point of view is for the momebt at least, America is going down the tubes, if there is another similar to Bush in office again for another 8 years, we are screwed, but our system of government works, just because it has fallen does not mean that it was not good origanaly. I was a good idea to have america, the world is better off then it would be, but, now america has begun its fall, I intend to move out when I turn 18. Basicly, America was good, made the world better because of it, but is not good any more.

However much some of the less dependent nations may hate the USA, some of the smaller nations need the USA. If the US didn't help them then no one would. They'd get picked on by other nations. Besides, the US has a lot of influence when it comes to possible wars between nations.

This doesn't belong in Moderation.
This doesn't belong in general.

This doesn't belong in general.
This doesn't deserve to exist.

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children

LMAO!!!!!! is this guy serious??? anything that is anty ??? u mean ANTI ?

to all I AM a US lmao!!! yes sure you are lol i think he means AMERICAN

the f... a citizen unfortunately , this guy really doesnt know how to write

we as US are so wrong CORRECTION we OF the US are so right

it will kill our grand children , i dont know how to respond to that other then :confused:

what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know

isn't free speech great :)

Send it to the Nationstates 2 forum, nobody reads that anyways. :)

However much some of the less dependent nations may hate the USA, some of the smaller nations need the USA. If the US didn't help them then no one would. They'd get picked on by other nations. Besides, the US has a lot of influence when it comes to possible wars between nations.

Yeah. Like starting them.


LMAO!!!!!! is this guy serious??? anything that is anty ??? u mean ANTI ?

to all I AM a US lmao!!! yes sure you are lol i think he means AMERICAN

the f... a citizen unfortunately , this guy really doesnt know how to write

we as US are so wrong CORRECTION we OF the US are so right

it will kill our grand children , i dont know how to respond to that other then

what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know


You're laughing at his grammar and spelling, look at your own.

what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know
Here's a mistake you're a racist...

what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know
Please refrain from making racial slurs like that in the future. Insulting others is against forum rules here, and I have seen others get an official warning for it. Try not to make a habit of it, and please refrain from doing it in the future.
Thank you.

My point of view is for the momebt at least, America is going down the tubes,
Where are these "tubes". There are no tubes. If they exist you would think some one would have seen them by now. "Hey Charlie, look at the big tube". And why do we need more than one tube. I say, one country one tube. let's not start getting greedy with the tubes.

My apologies to George Carlin.

This doesn't belong in Moderation.
lol. Maybe he wants you to IP ban America :rolleyes:

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.



Actually, no. That's typical American arrogance.

I am sorry, but you haven't invented Democracy. The Greeks beat you to the punch by about two thousand years.

And considering that in your society, organizations like ACLU are necessary to ensure your rights, I'd say you haven't exactly refined it either.

(PS: Short note - the Greeks had no problem with gays, either.)

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

Are you sure? Absolutely sure?

Having said that, America is no more the great satan of the world that will destroy us all than it is the land of milk and honey.

Actually, no. That's typical American arrogance.

I am sorry, but you haven't invented Democracy. The Greeks beat you to the punch by about two thousand years.
Damn those Greeks!

My point of view is for the momebt at least, America is going down the tubes, if there is another similar to Bush in office again for another 8 years, we are screwed, but our system of government works, just because it has fallen does not mean that it was not good origanaly. I was a good idea to have america, the world is better off then it would be, but, now america has begun its fall, I intend to move out when I turn 18. Basicly, America was good, made the world better because of it, but is not good any more.

Just like the Roman Empire. Good idea while it lasted, shaped the modern structure of Europe, brought the entire continent under their rule, and then collapsed into dust after a couple hundred years.

If we're lucky, the world gets to keep the good stuff America made. But as the Middle Ages have shown, that's rather unlikely. Rather, the good stuff will be lost in the downfall and what remains is a mess.

"My country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be Right. But she is still my country, right or wrong."

-Stephen Decatur

"The greatest dishonor...capable of is the betrayal of his lord and clan. The most disgraceful of these warriors will not have done so out of anger, or malice, or greed, or wrath. A samurai's spirit rots and splinters when he finds, aside from duty, another reason to live."

-Taki Minimoto :D

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".
No. Defending it á la Bottle ad New Genoa in this thread is fine. I think it's stupid to say that "no USA = perfect world". But when someone starts spamming about how the USA is perfect and every other country is inferior, I call it arrogant nationalism.

I like the title.

If you truly hate the USA you are free to leave. In fact, staying here makes you a bit of a hypocrite.

This whole thread, with the exception of the burst of laughter I got from the man-eating hampster comment, just confuses and frightens me.

I couldnt understand what the first post even said and then it was followed by a recipe........

*leaves thread quickly*

The Greeeeeeks. . . .

Ha! Should we set up a city-state system, too!?

I remember the post was that the USA was the first to guarantee rights to citizens, not the first to use democracy!

Do we want the rights Greeks had!? Free eugenic healthcare for every newborn? Annual, sysematic slaughter of our working class? Cities randomly kicking the crap out of each other? Talk about East Coast / West Coast. I'd prefer to leave the Peloponnesian War in the past. Not to mention. . .THAT ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION WAS A FAILURE. That's what the Greeks had. When the Spartans didn't feel like showing, they didn't. And where would America be if our Virginia, Wisonsin, and Californian soldiers decided not to show on D-Day?

Anyways, if that's the democracy you'd rather have. . .my Phoenix would be glad to demand tribute from all our neighbors. . . ;)

Actually, no. That's typical American arrogance.

I am sorry, but you haven't invented Democracy. The Greeks beat you to the punch by about two thousand years.

And considering that in your society, organizations like ACLU are necessary to ensure your rights, I'd say you haven't exactly refined it either.

(PS: Short note - the Greeks had no problem with gays, either.)
Ahem...

He's not talking about Democracy. Everyone knows that Democracy in it's pure form was originated in the general area of the world known as Greece. It's about the law based guarantee of freedom of expression. And amusingly enough, the Athenians didn't actually have that. The Athenians had a system in which "what the majority wants, goes, even if it tramples on minorities rights." The US on the other hand has "Majority rule, minority rights." By law. So, be careful about misreading posts.

I like the title.
Why do you even need to point that out? You're VW, we know you like it.

What's cool about America, even though I disagree with a whole lot of people here, is this:

The Greeks, Romans, French, Germans. . .even the British (I love them!) all set up different governments. Our founding fathers here took the good parts, and made it as good as possible. Democracy is far from perfect, even less efficient, but so much better than Europe has come close to creating.

(PS: Short note - the Greeks had no problem with gays, either.)
Ok, now here you're assuming that homosexuality is a normal thing, and part of a perfectly functioning society. Personally, I believe it is wrong. But that has almost nothing to do with this discussion. Not to mention, the Spartans eventually dwindled because their men forgot to procreate with their wives. Overly accepting homosexuality wasn't very wise on their part, even though they rarely saw immediate effects of these actions. They also missed the long-term effects because, well. . .they all died.

Anti USA? Not really...The past war has been weong(in my opinion) and America has its bad sides, but why be entirey against it?

Here's the thing:

Should America ever fall. . .and say the world still exists hundreds of years from now, how will the world look back on us? I doubt they will look back and say "booo! bad idea, Americans!" No, they will look back on us like we look back on Greece and Rome. They will be in awe of our accomplishments and the fact that we dominated the world by our economic and diplomatic power, not by simply bashing countries into submission, although sometimes I think they need that.

The USA will be remembered as one of the greatest empires, countries, nations, and governments of all time. That's almost factual enough to be in the Encyclopedia.

We haev economic power? is that a joke?

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

Actually the Netherlands were the first country to ensure freedom of speech and religion. If I'm not too mistaken that is.

I think that is true.

We haev economic power? is that a joke?

No, it's not.

I was talking about the USA throughout history. We have dominated in the economic sector several times. Not to mention. . .most of the world would hold a US dollar like you and I would hold a bar of gold.

In all fairness I think the US has a good, consistent balance of economic, diplomatic, and military power. I guess you could pull numbers and debate me. . .but go hand out American dollars in every country.

And really, I suppose some people just hate America too much to accept the fact that we are THE world power. Much of Europe never accepted the fact that the Roman Empire was THE world power at the time, but. . .oh well.

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".

Couldn't agree more....particularly as the people who come out with this sort of 'intolerance' ----- ie we hate America (what everything about it?? even stuff like the notion of individual human rights, which is one of the central tenets of the US?) ;Americans (who by virtue are made up of every ethnicity in the world);all things American (gee, that is a lot, where do you wanna start??) ------ claim to be tolerant, fair minded, compassionate, free-thinking, liberal types...................They seem to hate a hell of a lot considering they usually claim to be soooo peace loving, I don't think even the nazis claimed to be against soo much..........

I'm happy for them to spout their worthy b******t, but they are never happy when I point out the hypocrisy of their stance..

Basically, they want us all to be like them, whereas the beauty of a country like the U.S. is that you can pretty much be who you wanna be (I can almost hear the pinkos keyboards being hammered upon in reply as I type this...)

Oh, yeah....and I ain't A US citizen, just like to think I'm open minded and honest........................

:sniper: ;)

The Greeks, Romans, French, Germans. . .even the British (I love them!) all set up different governments. Our founding fathers here took the good parts, and made it as good as possible. Democracy is far from perfect, even less efficient, but so much better than Europe has come close to creating.

Explain to me what's so good about the electoral college. The BEST example of a Democractic system was actually Indonesia, until the CIA destroyed it and put a mass-murdering dictator up instead.

Ok, now here you're assuming that homosexuality is a normal thing, and part of a perfectly functioning society. Personally, I believe it is wrong. But that has almost nothing to do with this discussion. Not to mention, the Spartans eventually dwindled because their men forgot to procreate with their wives. Overly accepting homosexuality wasn't very wise on their part, even though they rarely saw immediate effects of these actions. They also missed the long-term effects because, well. . .they all died.

The Spartan's died out because they killed all the weak among them and they weren't allowed to breed with non-Spartans. Homosexuality and 'forgetting' to sleep with their women had nothing to do with it. And if homosexuality is so unnatural and wrong, why was it only recognized as such over the last 2000 years? Why are there homosexual animals? It might not be the best idea for a species. On the other hand, there's 6 billion people on the planet. Perhaps a bit of gay love would be quite a good idea.

Originally Posted by Dontgonearthere
Yup, its peaceful because the KGB tends to kill people who arent

- you do of course know that the KGB ceased to exist with the collapse of the USSR. there is no longer a KGB. So, how can they kill people, if they dont exist. There IS still a Russian intelligence agency (with 3 characters - Why do they always have 3 characters ; FBI - CIA - KGB - MI5 - etc etc.) but i forget what it is called. i think thats its S?? :confused:

oh! and by the way, peole do know that most Roman soldiers (and Spartens) were eunuchs, dont they?

And another quote - (but i cant remember who said it.)

"Democracy doesn't work - just our form of Democracy doesn't work better than your form" - (i think that it was Voitere - but am not sure)

Couldn't agree more....particularly as the people who come out with this sort of 'intolerance' ----- ie we hate America (what everything about it?? even stuff like the notion of individual human rights, which is one of the central tenets of the US?) ;Americans (who by virtue are made up of every ethnicity in the world);all things American (gee, that is a lot, where do you wanna start??) ------ claim to be tolerant, fair minded, compassionate, free-thinking, liberal types...................They seem to hate a hell of a lot considering they usually claim to be soooo peace loving, I don't think even the nazis claimed to be against soo much..........

I'm happy for them to spout their worthy b******t, but they are never happy when I point out the hypocrisy of their stance..

Basically, they want us all to be like them, whereas the beauty of a country like the U.S. is that you can pretty much be who you wanna be (I can almost hear the pinkos keyboards being hammered upon in reply as I type this...)

Oh, yeah....and I ain't A US citizen, just like to think I'm open minded and honest........................

:sniper: ;)
pinkos, ain't. Are you sure you're not American? (not claiming all Americans use those terms just never seen others using them)

I'm not anti-American just don't like the policies their government has, or when anyone says their nation is the best in the world.

Hardly anyone hates everthing American.

We haev economic power? is that a joke?
We're still the world's largest economy.

[QUOTE=The Dylanites]-

oh! and by the way, peole do know that most Roman soldiers (and Spartens) were eunuchs, dont they?

QUOTE]
Where'd you get that little gem of misinformation?

Alright, hold on.

The basis for this discussion is that the United States is bad.

I disagree. And if it is "bad," provide a good alternative that exists, is feasible and practical, and that is not a utopia. . .because that does not, nay, will not exist on this earth.

Alright, hold on.

The basis for this discussion is that the United States is bad.

I disagree. And if it is "bad," provide a good alternative that exists, is feasible and practical, and that is not a utopia. . .because that does not, nay, will not exist on this earth.
Nearly all the countries in Europe.

PS. don't think US is bad.

Why do you even need to point that out? You're VW, we know you like it.
I could have just typed: Bump
But I thought this was more umm.. original.

(Sarcastically) Europe. . .I really doubt anyone will look back on the current Europe and say. . .that was a golden age.

I could be wrong, but I rarely am. ;)

this thread is wrong in so many ways...its a brilliant piece of satire






wait....it was meant to be real?

this thread is wrong in so many ways...its a brilliant piece of satire






wait....it was meant to be real?

Yeah, I totally think it was started by a European trying to stir it up some. To give the thread starter his dues, it worked.

(Sarcastically) Europe. . .I really doubt anyone will look back on the current Europe and say. . .that was a golden age.

I could be wrong, but I rarely am. ;)
I agree, god I hope that this isn't our golden age! But you said good!

Alright, hold on.

The basis for this discussion is that the United States is bad.

I disagree. And if it is "bad," provide a good alternative that exists, is feasible and practical, and that is not a utopia. . .because that does not, nay, will not exist on this earth.

Yes, there is absolutely no possibility that anything could ever be so great as the USA.
Sorry, but it is arrogance such as this that leads towards feeling you perceive as "anti-american".
Lets take a look at Switzerland. While they dont have the land mass of the USA they do have a thriving economy, with an average income among the highest in the world, have a cost free but very good education system, free healthcare, have a direct democracy, low crime rates and not too strict gun laws for those who care about that.
But hey, of course the US is still better in every way, right? :rolleyes:

No, the US isnt bad. But jingoism is, in every nation of this world.

I thought it would be easier to convert the measurements of your dicks with this: http://www.manuelsweb.com/in_cm.htm
That converter should be stickied.

USA is bad... Europe is worse... very entertaining.

I thought it would be easier to convert the measurements of your dicks with this: http://www.manuelsweb.com/in_cm.htm
That converter should be stickied.

USA is bad... Europe is worse... very entertaining.
MyCockerSpaniel.com -- My 2nd web site totally devoted to cock...








...er spaniels.
:eek:

You don't have to agree with the current administration's policies to say that America is great. We have a history of being a major player, if not a leader, in international aid to disaster victims. We have brought about lots of discoveries in science. Our space program, along with Europe's and Asia's has been pushing the frontiers of the known world. Our land is peaceful when compared to much of the world. And, (this one's good) we were the driving force in creating the United Nations.

You can label us imperialists all you like, but our limited historic imperialism was a pathetic copy of the system perfected by Europeans. Thats right, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy. Look at Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia. All of them are still suffering today the consequenses of historic imperialism. The power and influence we wield today is representative of our political, military, and economic strength.

Our democratic government is, I believe, the oldest democracy still functioning. I believe that the system is VERY strong, well thought out, and capable of dealing with the challenges of today. The electoral college prevents the formation of radical fringe parties, and forces the two main parties to adopt generally moderate platforms that include the maximum number of voters. It also gives minorities a disproportionally LARGER representation.

The one problem we face today is that of campaign finance. The media and its trememdous influence is not something that could have been forseen by the writers of the Constitution. It needs to be fixed. Aside from that, I don't believe there are any problems not commonly experienced in a democracy.

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children

All your bases are belong to us!

I would just like to point out that the United States has pretty much single-handedly shaped the entire course of the 20th Century. I mean, honestly, Europeans keep forgetting that if it weren't for the United States they'd all be heiling Hitler or praising Comrade Stalin.

Think about the course of events in Europe during the 1800s... essentially the whole continent is at war for most of the century. The United States really had no involvement in that, so, WWI would have been inevitable. Had the United States not existed, Germany would most probably have won. They were just about to break France and Britain's backs when 4,000,000 American troops arrived and provided fresh manpower in the trenches, so the Germans just gave up. BUT had those 4,000,000 fresh troops not been present, the Germans would probably have broken through.

Ok, so, let's say that France and Britain win WWI without any American support. The stage would have been set for Hitler right from the outset, except worse... the only reason the Entente didn't completely strip Germany of everything was because the United States managed to keep their heads level during the peace talks.

WWII starts without the US existing. No support from the Americans in the form of the Lend-Lease Act would have knocked Britain out of the picture sooner or later. Germany then focuses its whole strength against the USSR, which, despite the Soviet Union's formidable industry, would probably have overwhelmed them.

But, once again, let's say the Allies win without American support. All of Western Europe is completely ravaged by the war, but the USSR has only just begun to flex its muscles and soon gobbles up most of the continent. Why? Because there's no USA to counter them with Mutually Agreed Destruction (MAD) in the form of a military and nuclear arsenal that is more powerful than theirs.

So, there you have it. A brief history lesson on the major wars of the 20th Century. I don't think I need to point it out, but I will anyway: The United States of America is the only reason why all of Europe isn't under a despotic regime.

Which, to be brutally honest, I highly regret. We save your skins 3 times and you thank us by bashing our system of government and meddling in our affairs.

So, I'll leave you with this: if you're a European, next time you go to vote for a new president/prime minister or anything, just remember that if it weren't for the United States, chances are you wouldn't have that right. Or just about any other rights, for that matter.

what a load of bullshit

Europe doesn't owe america anything. End of story.

what a load of bullshit

Europe doesn't owe america anything. End of story.

You are correct. So is Kadmark.

The United States opposed (and contributed greatly to the collapse of) the two biggest threats to freedom and democracy in the 20th century. Kadmark is right.

However, because we are not despotic but motivated to promote freedom and democracy, we helped rebuild and consolidate Europe rather than capturing or colonizing it. We didn't ask for anything in return. We protected Europe's freedom because we believe in freedom (and to defend ourselves). Europe does not "owe us anything"


Of course, Kadmark never said that Europe "owed" us. He simply pointed out that we repeatedly acted to preserve Democratic Europe.

...Our democratic government is, I believe, the oldest democracy still functioning. ...
Not to bash your points but that affirmation is false. Hell, britain had a house of lords before you rebelled, and if that isn't a form of Democracy, then look at the history of Switzerland. If I recall correctly, they switched to representative democracy before you did. And I think that Greece has to be looked at when we talk about democracy as they invented the concept.

Other than that, carry on...

Well Europe did give us something. Hot young war brides, and VD.

I guess they just wanted real men for once, can't blame them for shacking up with our brave boys. They knew a good thing when they saw it.

Well Europe did give us something. Hot young war brides, and VD.

I guess they just wanted real men for once, can't blame them for shacking up with our brave boys. They knew a good thing when they saw it.


sigh.....

Not to bash your points but that affirmation is false. Hell, britain had a house of lords before you rebelled, and if that isn't a form of Democracy, then look at the history of Switzerland. If I recall correctly, they switched to representative democracy before you did. And I think that Greece has to be looked at when we talk about democracy as they invented the concept.

Other than that, carry on...


The House of Lords was not a democratic body representative of the entire population of Britain, unless I am mistaken. Wasn't it more aristocratic?

Anyway, that is beside the point. Our CONSTITUTION has endured for almost 250 years. No other democratic government can say that. When you rewrite the constitution, you change the government. Switzerland may have been a democracy for longer, but nobody has had the same CONSTITUTION and GOVERNMENT as long as we have.

The House of Lords was not a democratic body representative of the entire population of Britain, unless I am mistaken. Wasn't it more aristocratic?

Anyway, that is beside the point. Our CONSTITUTION has endured for almost 250 years. No other democratic government can say that. When you rewrite the constitution, you change the government. Switzerland may have been a democracy for longer, but nobody has had the same CONSTITUTION and GOVERNMENT as long as we have.
Isn't your constitution being reworked every time you add a ammendment?
By your definition it hasn't held 250 years.

And I'd like to point out that your system isn't representative of the entire population since some people cannot vote (felons, children). So saying that the British system isn't democratic while yours is one is the height of hypocrisy.

Its long been my idea and campain:



Expand the Pond --> Nuke america :gundge:

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".
Sad isn't it!

Its long been my idea and campain:



Expand the Pond --> Nuke america :gundge:

You guys can't even handle basic hygene on a daily basis. What makes you think you can handle that?

Isn't your constitution being reworked every time you add a ammendment?
By your definition it hasn't held 250 years.

And I'd like to point out that your system isn't representative of the entire population since some people cannot vote (felons, children). So saying that the British system isn't democratic while yours is one is the height of hypocrisy.

The entire constitution is not rewritten everytime an amendment is added. By the way, what does the House of Lords do anyway. Since when have they been elected by the people. Both american houses are voted on by the people. Do children vote in Britain? Do felons deserve the right to vote?

Well, showman, that was a bit of intelligent insight, wasn't it? :rolleyes:

I'm tired of every one saying that Americans are such idiots because the majority of the country got the president they wanted. If you hate Bush so much, you can come over here, become a citizen, and vote him out of office. Although, now it would be impossible, so guess you're stuck with who the country wanted, not who you wanted. Get used to it.

The Constitution itself has never been changed, we add amendments to the Bill of Rights.

And yes, I do believe a good deal of the American public is a bit on the selfish side.

The entire constitution is not rewritten everytime an amendment is added. By the way, what does the House of Lords do anyway. Since when have they been elected by the people. Both american houses are voted on by the people. Do children vote in Britain? Do felons deserve the right to vote?
Hey I was going by your criterions, don't blame the messenger.

YOU said that your system was representative of the ENTIRE country, I pointed out that it's not entirely true. Don't blame the messenger.

YOU seem to forget that the US is NOT a democracy, it's a republic.

You also seem to use different rules for your rewriting of the constitution than others, so I re-iterate: the US is NOT the oldest survivng democracy in the world.

As for the house of lords, I used it to show you that the British parliament was in full swing by the time the US came into existence. I should have used the MPs, I will admit it but my point remains: democracy was alive and well before you came in.

You seem to be revising history as you see fit.

However, because we are not despotic but motivated to promote freedom and democracy, we helped rebuild and consolidate Europe rather than capturing or colonizing it.

Yeah...isn't that what the middle east was for?

Those weren't my criterion, I just want to know what the House of Lords is good for?

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".

Heavily tolerated? I got told to go to hell for criticizing the US.

Heavily tolerated? I got told to go to hell for criticizing the US.

And I get told to go to hell for even raising a finger to defend George W Bush. Get used to it.

Hey I was going by your criterions, don't blame the messenger.

YOU said that your system was representative of the ENTIRE country, I pointed out that it's not entirely true. Don't blame the messenger.

YOU seem to forget that the US is NOT a democracy, it's a republic.

You also seem to use different rules for your rewriting of the constitution than others, so I re-iterate: the US is NOT the oldest survivng democracy in the world.

As for the house of lords, I used it to show you that the British parliament was in full swing by the time the US came into existence. I should have used the MPs, I will admit it but my point remains: democracy was alive and well before you came in.

You seem to be revising history as you see fit.


Please, I meant no offense.

Democracy is a FORM of government. The US is not the oldest functioning democracy in the world.

Our particular constitution, our ACTUAL democratic GOVERNMENT, is the longest running one in the world. If the argument persists, I will have to find some outside support. I hope this clears it up.

yeah, because the world was such a utopia before America was founded.
Ok,

Steam engine=British inventor

Computer=British inventor

Electricity=British inventor

Skimmed milk=American inventor

Ok,

Steam engine=British inventor

Computer=British inventor

Electricity=British inventor

Skimmed milk=American inventor
You seem to have conveniently omitted the Airplane and the Telephone. Unless ofcourse you think skimmed milk was a more significant invention.

You seem to have conveniently omitted the Airplane and the Telephone. Unless ofcourse you think skimmed milk was a more significant invention.
Alexander Graham Bell wasn't American.

Alexander Graham Bell wasn't American.
Damn, Well he was 6 years after he invented the Telephone. Can I get partial credit?

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children

Since you hate your country so much when are you moving?

Ok,

Steam engine=British inventor

Computer=British inventor

Electricity=British inventor

Skimmed milk=American inventor

I always thought electricity could have been credited to Ben Franklin the discoverer and Thomas Edison, both born and raised here.

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

if all you are going to do is bitch, please leave as quickly as possible. we really don't need more people wasting time complaining. if you don't have the intelligence or character to help effect positive change then either move to another country or go back to sulking in your mom's basement.

The problem with the hope of any one person having the intelligence or character to effect positive change is that there are so many people here with the stupidity and amorality to effect so much negative change. Sure they have a moral code, but trying to debate ethics with Christian Fundamentalist neo-cons is like a game of Calvinball.

Please, I meant no offense.

Democracy is a FORM of government. The US is not the oldest functioning democracy in the world.

Our particular constitution, our ACTUAL democratic GOVERNMENT, is the longest running one in the world. If the argument persists, I will have to find some outside support. I hope this clears it up.
And I'm telling you that it is not. Go find your outside support because I still persist in saying it isn't.

Besides, in one sentence you say that the US isn't the oldest and in the other you say it is. Contradiction?

Well, showman, that was a bit of intelligent insight, wasn't it? :rolleyes:

I'm tired of every one saying that Americans are such idiots because the majority of the country got the president they wanted. If you hate Bush so much, you can come over here, become a citizen, and vote him out of office. Although, now it would be impossible, so guess you're stuck with who the country wanted, not who you wanted. Get used to it.

The Constitution itself has never been changed, we add amendments to the Bill of Rights.

And yes, I do believe a good deal of the American public is a bit on the selfish side.

Um, we do amend the constitution. The bill of rights are not a document unto themselves, they are merely the name we have given to the first 10 amendments because they were all written on the theme of "what rights does the government have no ability to truly infringe upon." A handful of amendments could be said to have amended the bill of rights, the fifteenth for example, but most of them have nothing to do with our rights and therefore do not amend the Bill of Rights. The twelfth for example was merely and adjustment to how the vice president is chosen.

WWII starts without the US existing. No support from the Americans in the form of the Lend-Lease Act would have knocked Britain out of the picture sooner or later.

If a researcer takes out a loan and uses the money to fund a medical research project which happens to cure cancer, who gets the credit for it, the researcher or the loan company?

Sorry but I hate this whole 'You Europeans would be speaking German if it wasn't for us!' crap. For a start, since when was any country Germany defeated forced to use the German language? Were German language programs started in France or something?

Secondly it's just not true. The war helped America in that it got them out of the depression it had dug itself into (although Roosevelt was solving the problem slowly). Sure, without the supplies from America Britain would have fell, but does that mean America should be praised for selling weapons, or even just giving a loan to buy weapons?

Germany had no chance of invading Britain - it didn't have a good enough air force or Navy, especially after the Battle of Britain. If America had simply continued to sell arms to Britain then all that would have happened is that the British would have developed the A bomb and dropped it on Berlin. Cambridge scientists were actually the ones to first come up with the theory for creating an A bomb, but gave it to America to develop on the basis that they would share the weapon once it was created. America backed out on that one.

The war would have dragged on, possibly for another 5 years or so, but Britain and Russia would eventually have won on their own. Their economies would be in tatters, but they'd win. So don't claim that America 'saved damn limeys asses'.

If America had simply continued to sell arms to Britain then all that would have happened is that the British would have developed the A bomb and dropped it on Berlin. Cambridge scientists were actually the ones to first come up with the theory for creating an A bomb, but gave it to America to develop on the basis that they would share the weapon once it was created. America backed out on that one.
I had never heard of this before. Can you tell me where I can find this information so I can read more about it?

And I'm telling you that it is not. Go find your outside support because I still persist in saying it isn't.

Besides, in one sentence you say that the US isn't the oldest and in the other you say it is. Contradiction?


"The American republic is the oldest functioning democracy in the world and has inspired many other nations, but that does not mean our system is perfect, says Ted Lewis"
from a Canadian Election Monitoring site: http://www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca/displayarticle402.html


"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world."
First sentance from the book Political Geography of the United States


"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world"
From http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595099145,00.html


"We are also the world's oldest functioning democracy"
from an address by US Ambassador to China, Clark T. Randt, Jr.


"On June 21, 1788, the United States Constitution became effective after New Hampshire became the ninth State to ratify it. It is the oldest functioning constitution in existence and it has afforded every citizen guarantees of freedom virtually unknown in most of the world today."
From http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0800milsummit.htm


"The United States is the world's oldest continuous constitutional democracy."
From http://web.polisci.ufl.edu/amer.htm



Well I certainly hope I have made my point clear.



The "contradiction" you mention is a poor and hurried explanation on my part. Some places of the world, for example Switzerland, have been governed by VARIOUS DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT. They have been democratically ruled for longer than the United States.

The present United States Government is the same government that was created by the ratification of the Constitution in 1788. It is true that there have been amendments, but the Constitution PROVIDED FOR and ANTICIPATED the need for amendments. The founding fathers designed this Constitution and this government to be adaptable. Because of that, it has endured for 216 years. Our governmentand our Constitution are 216 years old. Our history of democratic rule is slightly older, depending on whether you count the Articles of Confederation or even local colonial governments.

Care for another round of debate?

bumpity bump... I want a response!

"The American republic is the oldest functioning democracy in the world and has inspired many other nations, but that does not mean our system is perfect, says Ted Lewis"
from a Canadian Election Monitoring site: http://www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca/displayarticle402.html


"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world."
First sentance from the book Political Geography of the United States


"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world"
From http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595099145,00.html


"We are also the world's oldest functioning democracy"
from an address by US Ambassador to China, Clark T. Randt, Jr.


"On June 21, 1788, the United States Constitution became effective after New Hampshire became the ninth State to ratify it. It is the oldest functioning constitution in existence and it has afforded every citizen guarantees of freedom virtually unknown in most of the world today."
From http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0800milsummit.htm


"The United States is the world's oldest continuous constitutional democracy."
From http://web.polisci.ufl.edu/amer.htm



Well I certainly hope I have made my point clear.



The "contradiction" you mention is a poor and hurried explanation on my part. Some places of the world, for example Switzerland, have been governed by VARIOUS DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT. They have been democratically ruled for longer than the United States.

The present United States Government is the same government that was created by the ratification of the Constitution in 1788. It is true that there have been amendments, but the Constitution PROVIDED FOR and ANTICIPATED the need for amendments. The founding fathers designed this Constitution and this government to be adaptable. Because of that, it has endured for 216 years. Our governmentand our Constitution are 216 years old. Our history of democratic rule is slightly older, depending on whether you count the Articles of Confederation or even local colonial governments.

Care for another round of debate?
Excellent! So rare to find someone making his point with actual factual evidence these days. Bravo!

Thanks, I appreciate it. Good old google!

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children

the incoherence and pointlessness of your post suggests to me that 1.) i am missing something or (more likely) 2.) you are another one of these attention-seeking self-righteous fuckheads who enjoys bashing your own country. if you really don't like it, leave.

The existence of this post is yet another proof of the freedoms we enjoy in the United States. The irony is satisfying, isn't it?

The existence of this post is yet another proof of the freedoms we enjoy in the United States. The irony is satisfying, isn't it?

definitely. although there are times when i wish the government COULD censor things/people... ;)

Bata']Anything that is anty USA is a better future. To all I AM a US the f... A citizen unfortunately :( We as US are so wrong.. it will kill our grand children
How did you get brackets in your nation name?

Sorry if I didn't respond sooner, I was busy sleeping.

"The American republic is the oldest functioning democracy in the world and has inspired many other nations, but that does not mean our system is perfect, says Ted Lewis"
from a Canadian Election Monitoring site: http://www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca/displayarticle402.html
While Ted Lewis is entitled to his opinion, it's only that: an opinion. He doesn't back his claim and is only using rethorics. I can say that the Canadian emocracy is the oldest, that doesn't make it so.


"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world."
First sentance from the book Political Geography of the United States
A claim totally unjustified and used as the first sentence of a book to catch the attention of the reader. Nowhere is it detailed where they came to that conclusion. And I've read the first chapter.

"The United States is the oldest functioning democracy in the world"
From http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595099145,00.html
Spoken by a spokesperson from a government agency. Excuse me if I take this kind of statement with a grain of salt as it comes from someone trying to sell his product. My doubt is even higher as it is a Bush appointee.


"We are also the world's oldest functioning democracy"
from an address by US Ambassador to China, Clark T. Randt, Jr.
See above. An ambassador is far from a reliable source in this matter.

"On June 21, 1788, the United States Constitution became effective after New Hampshire became the ninth State to ratify it. It is the oldest functioning constitution in existence and it has afforded every citizen guarantees of freedom virtually unknown in most of the world today."
From http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0800milsummit.htm
Have you read this guy's essay? He's saying that, and I quote, "all but one of the seventeen U.S. Department of State diplomats who helped shaped the original UN were later identified as secret members of the Communist Party, USA"

His whole essay is bashing the UN. He's using revisionist history to argue that China and Russia are using their veto to hinder American interest. Here's a newsflash for this guy: He's wrong. The veto has been used the most by the US, and mostly to help Israel. I'm not even sure if China has used his veto more than 20 times. THe informatiion is availlable on the UN site to disproove his claims. I'm sorry but if he is saying that the US is the oldest democracy in the world, there's a good chance it isn't.

"The United States is the world's oldest continuous constitutional democracy."
From http://web.polisci.ufl.edu/amer.htm
Is your best claim. But then I don't see any reference for the University of Florida's claim. It looks like a text used to describe the whole program of Political Science. I would like to see who wrote that and why he claims this.

Here's my claim: England has an oldest, continuous democratic system than yours.

Of course it'S easy to claim you're the oldest when you put restriction like:
- It must have a constitution.
- It must never have changed it's constitution.
- It can have changed it's constitution BUT it must have been provided for in the original text.
- And so on and so forth.

It's as stupid a statistic as "Eddie Guerruero has an average of .500 when hitting after 7:00 PM, on a saturday, in a dome after a two day rest."
It's fascinating but totally pointless as a statistic.



Well I certainly hope I have made my point clear.

Care for another round of debate?
You did make your point clear but I'm not buying it with this kind of evidence. Bring me something written by a competent authority and then I'll listen. What you brought was empty phrases used to boast the speaker. I can say the same thing and if enough people say it, you'll have that kind of backing on the web in no time. It doesn't make it true.

The US is not the oldest continuous democracy in the world. The UK is older. And that's without doind some research in the other democratic governments in Europe.

Please refrain from making racial slurs like that in the future. Insulting others is against forum rules here, and I have seen others get an official warning for it. Try not to make a habit of it, and please refrain from doing it in the future.
Thank you.

Bullshit, i guess everyone needs to get reprimanded for flaming then. If you agree with it then it's ok...right?

You did make your point clear but I'm not buying it with this kind of evidence. Bring me something written by a competent authority and then I'll listen. What you brought was empty phrases used to boast the speaker. I can say the same thing and if enough people say it, you'll have that kind of backing on the web in no time. It doesn't make it true.

The US is not the oldest continuous democracy in the world. The UK is older. And that's without doind some research in the other democratic governments in Europe.

What do you call a competant authority then. You got all bent out of shape because someone's essay was bashing the UN, but you don;t trust anything an american says, and you are happy to live in your little US bashing world. I hate this whole world, noone holds up to their own standards for others, yet if someone else doesn;t live up to those standards, he is an idiot, racist, fascist, fundie, etc. But you are a-okay for not living up to your OWN standards. Start practicing what you preach.

Bullshit, i guess everyone needs to get reprimanded for flaming then. If you agree with it then it's ok...right?
so it's ok to say:
what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know
Is it? Is that what you're saying? "If you agree with it then it's ok...right?"
Especially when he said he was American.

What do you call a competant authority then. You got all bent out of shape because someone's essay was bashing the UN, but you don;t trust anything an american says, and you are happy to live in your little US bashing world. I hate this whole world, noone holds up to their own standards for others, yet if someone else doesn;t live up to those standards, he is an idiot, racist, fascist, fundie, etc. But you are a-okay for not living up to your OWN standards. Start practicing what you preach.
NO! Just NO! bullshit!

so it's ok to say:
what idiot taught this Arab the little bit of english IT does know
Is it? Is that what you're saying? "If you agree with it then it's ok...right?"
Especially when he said he was American.

No i don;t agree, i hate racism, but i still think he needs to think a bit more before posting. Maybe he should have said insulting a race, being racist is against forum rules (it is), then i would have not said anything. Poeple insult people all the time (including neoanarchists) and i have never seen themm get reprimanded.

NO! Just NO! bullshit!
[/pointless post]

No i don;t agree, i hate racism, but i still think he needs to think a bit more before posting. Maybe he should have said insulting a race, being racist is against forum rules (it is), then i would have not said anything. Poeple insult people all the time (including neoanarchists) and i have never seen themm get reprimanded.
Well he's right insulting people is against forum rules and if someone insults you you can tell the mods, not that many people are that thin skined though.

As for your other post you are making assumtions that are wrong about that poster.

I've been trolling this forum, and I have an important question:

Is it the USA you hate, or is it G. W. Bush?

Because, the two are NOT hand in hand (49% of the country doesn't like or agree with him, but we are stuck with him).

I'm interested in hearing honest replies....

I've been trolling this forum, and I have an important question:

Is it the USA you hate, or is it G. W. Bush?

Because, the two are NOT hand in hand (49% of the country doesn't like or agree with him, but we are stuck with him).

I'm interested in hearing honest replies....
trolling's the wrong word :p

Oops...

I guess I should get my terminology straight :)

Don't tell me....a giant man-eating hamster! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Like the one in Nutty Professor II that shoots giant shitballs at people.

Talk about a horrible way to go!

This is prolly just another whiner, but hell... let's humor him/her. This could be fun.

Let's say the US ceased to exist right now.

Possible Effect #1:

There'd be nearly 300 million people without a country... maybe the states would become countries or groups of states would form countries.

The left coast might become Union of Socialist Elitist Republics (USER)

The South might become Lynyrdstan

The Northeast might become Democratic Independent Peoples (DIP).

The Plains states might become the United States of Corn (USC, causing an uproar at a certain LA campus)

Upper Midwest (thinking Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan) might become The Icebound Totalitarian States (TITS) ... and etc.


Florida would soon leave Lynyrdstan to form their own nation, Chadistan.

Like the one in Nutty Professor II that shoots giant shitballs at people.

Talk about a horrible way to go!

This is prolly just another whiner, but hell... let's humor him/her. This could be fun.

Let's say the US ceased to exist right now.

Possible Effect #1:

There'd be nearly 300 million people without a country... maybe the states would become countries or groups of states would form countries. The left coast might become Union of Socialist Elitist Republics (USER) ... The south might become Kickassistan or Lynyrdistan ... The Northeast might become Democratistia ... The Plains states might become the United States of Bread ... Upper Midwest (thinking Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan might become Coldasfuckistan ... and etc.


Damn, idkabout you, but i'm moving to Coldasfuckistan.

What do you call a competant authority then. You got all bent out of shape because someone's essay was bashing the UN, but you don;t trust anything an american says, and you are happy to live in your little US bashing world. I hate this whole world, noone holds up to their own standards for others, yet if someone else doesn;t live up to those standards, he is an idiot, racist, fascist, fundie, etc. But you are a-okay for not living up to your OWN standards. Start practicing what you preach.
Let me get a few things straight, right now.

I have NEVER attacked, dissed, ranted or bashed the US in this thread. I called on someone saying that the Us is the oldest living democracy in the world. I disagree and ask him to proove his claim.

Go read back my posts. Go on... I never attacked the US. Not once. If you wanna rant, fine. I can understand how you feel as I've seen many people like what you describe. However, I am not of them. Please, look before you rant.

And I didn't get bent out of shape because someone was bashing the UN, I got bent out of shape because that someone is rewriting history for his purpose. I can't stand revisionist historian. I will continue to point out these things whenever I see them.

Gaea Rules!

republicofgaea.tripod.com (http://republicofgaea.tripod.com)

Ok been hearing alot of "the US is the world's oldest democracy".
However, the basis of his boast remains unclear.


If by "democracy" we are referring to a system in which a class of slave-owners held regular elections to determine which of them would rule over the slaves, then Greece established such a democracy more than 2,500 years before the Americans did so. Furthermore, in ancient Greece all citizens had the right to vote and not just those who owned property.

If by "democracy" we are referring to a system of government elected by universal franchise, then there are numerous countries which adopted this before the United States, including the Soviet Union. Even Canada extended the franchise to its Aboriginal citizens before most Black Americans received the right to vote.

If by "democracy" we are referring to a government elected by a majority of its citizens and which actually respects the opinions of those citizens, then it can be said with certainty that the United States has still not achieved such status. i.e. Gore v Bush elections

here's the paradox: the US was the first country in the world to guarantee and safeguard your right to express that kind of hatred for your country.

if all you are going to do is bitch, please leave as quickly as possible. we really don't need more people wasting time complaining. if you don't have the intelligence or character to help effect positive change then either move to another country or go back to sulking in your mom's basement.

Your logic puzzles me. He has the right of an american citizen to speak his/her mind, even if its hared of his/her country.

Be it that you have a right to tell them to leave I just don't understand how you expect them to listen to you.

Admittedly, there are some good things/people that come out of America. I mean, think of Rachel Corrie (http://www.rachelcorrie.org).

Sadly, these are usually the ones America doesn't want to remember.

The ones they do acknowledge (eg Washington, Jefferson, Franklin...) are almost unilaterally either

a. ) Dead for centuries or
b. ) European immigrants, or
c. ) Both.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

b. ) European immigrants, or


Just about everyone in the US are immigrants or decendants of immigrants, because the only real Americans were those who the immigrants and decendants of immigrants hunted down since the day the first settlers came from Europe.

Also, I would like to pose this question to anyone and everyone who thinks it is fun to bash on the US:

What did the US ever do to you?

Unless you can give me facts instead of your own opinions then I will never say anything against you again. However if you have no factual information from an unbiased source, then how do you know that it was the US's fault? Im pretty sure that if the US didnt exist there would still be world hunger, there would still be unrest in Africa and the Middle East, and there would still be terrorist organizations.

Or if the US ever beat you up and took your lunch money or stuffed you in a locker, then Id say you have a pretty good reason for not liking it.

And to those anarchists and far left or right wing nuts out there who hate the US and it government what I typed above goes double for you. How could you hate some place that gives you more freedoms than you are aware of? As far as I remember there has never been a state (when I say state I mean nationaly) sanctioned book burning. Just thinkof what it would be like if you hadnt been born in a nation that gives you the freedom to speak your mind in every way shape and form. More than likely you people would have been shot, hanged, or imprisoned long ago.

Well, thats about all I have to say except, am I the only one who realized that the thread starter spelled anti right in the title but not in his post?

Just about everyone in the US are immigrants or decendants of immigrants, because the only real Americans were those who the immigrants and decendants of immigrants hunted down since the day the first settlers came from Europe.

Also, I would like to pose this question to anyone and everyone who thinks it is fun to bash on the US:

What did the US ever do to you?

Unless you can give me facts instead of your own opinions then I will never say anything against you again. However if you have no factual information from an unbiased source, then how do you know that it was the US's fault? Im pretty sure that if the US didnt exist there would still be world hunger, there would still be unrest in Africa and the Middle East, and there would still be terrorist organizations.
Since you asked,

- The US has put illegal tarriffs on softwood lumber that is the direct cause of my uncle loosing his job.
- The Us has refused to sign the Kyoto agreement which means that I will have to contribute MORE to meet the target of the agreement as pollution is not stopped by the border. This means more taxes, deductions and general economic hindrances I have to live with.
- The US is forcing my country to buy into a missile defence contraption who isn't working correctly and expect us to aprrove their initiative and even help in it'S financing (albeit a very small part).
- The US is sending money and priests to try to hinder our national debate on gay marriage. I have recieved a flyer urging me to get involved against it even though the court and the law has pretty much decided the issue according to our constitution.

As you can see, I have specific grievances with the US and I feel I have the right to express them. Don't get me wrong, the US is a great place who did a lot of good in the world. The US citizens are always willing to give some hard earned money for poor peoples in other parts of the world. But they have some problems too, especially when it comes to their foreign policy.

Well, your first two points I cant really say anything on as Im not familiar with them. But for your third point all I have to say is that if your government (which I am assuming is the Canadian government) did not want to do something, then there really isnt anyone who can make them do it. However there would probably be some sort of negative consequence(s) but there is still nothing forcing your government to do anything.

To your last point, that is more than likely not the US as a whole. It is more than likely just people who extremists and are set against gay marriage. Although that does not make it right, but you cant really blame the US as an entirety(sp?) for that. Hell just to make it a publicly known fact, Im against gays,lesbians, same sex marriages, and pretty much anything else that has to deal with two poeple of the same sex having sexual relations with each other. But as long as they do not bother me, Im not going to waste my time trying to change someone's ideals. Its not worth it. (got a little off topic, sorry).

But anywho I think thats all I have to say.

Well, your first two points I cant really say anything on as Im not familiar with them. But for your third point all I have to say is that if your government (which I am assuming is the Canadian government) did not want to do something, then there really isnt anyone who can make them do it. However there would probably be some sort of negative consequence(s) but there is still nothing forcing your government to do anything.

Agreed. But when your #1 partner say you'll be sorry, it tends to count in the balance. This fall under the foreign politic I rant so much against.

To your last point, that is more than likely not the US as a whole. It is more than likely just people who extremists and are set against gay marriage. Although that does not make it right, but you cant really blame the US as an entirety(sp?) for that. Hell just to make it a publicly known fact, Im against gays,lesbians, same sex marriages, and pretty much anything else that has to deal with two poeple of the same sex having sexual relations with each other. But as long as they do not bother me, Im not going to waste my time trying to change someone's ideals. Its not worth it. (got a little off topic, sorry).

But anywho I think thats all I have to say.
No it's not the US as a whole. However, it does fall under something in the US that affects me personnaly. I wouldn't mind their actions if it wasn't for the fact that they argue without knowing our constitution and our laws. The want to force their religious belief on our laws. I am appalled by that persepective. If they have some insight, I'm willing to listen but it has to repect the law of the land. What I find funny is that it's the same people who told me to shut up when I gave my opinion on the US election who try to do the same thing.

Take care.

Sorry if I didn't respond sooner, I was busy sleeping.


While Ted Lewis is entitled to his opinion, it's only that: an opinion. He doesn't back his claim and is only using rethorics. I can say that the Canadian emocracy is the oldest, that doesn't make it so.



A claim totally unjustified and used as the first sentence of a book to catch the attention of the reader. Nowhere is it detailed where they came to that conclusion. And I've read the first chapter.


Spoken by a spokesperson from a government agency. Excuse me if I take this kind of statement with a grain of salt as it comes from someone trying to sell his product. My doubt is even higher as it is a Bush appointee.



See above. An ambassador is far from a reliable source in this matter.


Have you read this guy's essay? He's saying that, and I quote, "all but one of the seventeen U.S. Department of State diplomats who helped shaped the original UN were later identified as secret members of the Communist Party, USA"

His whole essay is bashing the UN. He's using revisionist history to argue that China and Russia are using their veto to hinder American interest. Here's a newsflash for this guy: He's wrong. The veto has been used the most by the US, and mostly to help Israel. I'm not even sure if China has used his veto more than 20 times. THe informatiion is availlable on the UN site to disproove his claims. I'm sorry but if he is saying that the US is the oldest democracy in the world, there's a good chance it isn't.


Is your best claim. But then I don't see any reference for the University of Florida's claim. It looks like a text used to describe the whole program of Political Science. I would like to see who wrote that and why he claims this.

Here's my claim: England has an oldest, continuous democratic system than yours.

Of course it'S easy to claim you're the oldest when you put restriction like:
- It must have a constitution.
- It must never have changed it's constitution.
- It can have changed it's constitution BUT it must have been provided for in the original text.
- And so on and so forth.

It's as stupid a statistic as "Eddie Guerruero has an average of .500 when hitting after 7:00 PM, on a saturday, in a dome after a two day rest."
It's fascinating but totally pointless as a statistic.




You did make your point clear but I'm not buying it with this kind of evidence. Bring me something written by a competent authority and then I'll listen. What you brought was empty phrases used to boast the speaker. I can say the same thing and if enough people say it, you'll have that kind of backing on the web in no time. It doesn't make it true.

The US is not the oldest continuous democracy in the world. The UK is older. And that's without doind some research in the other democratic governments in Europe.

Lets talk about the United Kingdom for a while, since you refuse to shift your position on the USA.

For those who don't know, both the House of Commons and the House of Lords have been around since the 14th century. The House of Lords today is a mostly symbolic unelected body.The House of Commons is an elected assembly that constitutes the real legislative body of the UK.

However, until the Parliament Act of 1911, the House of Lords was far from a relic of the past. I quote from Wikipedia (How's that for objective and unbiased? Or should I be getting my info from God himself?):

Regarding the Parliament Acts:
The Parliament Act 1911 soon came into effect, destroying the legislative equality of the two Houses of Parliament. The House of Lords was only permitted to delay most legislation for a maximum of three parliamentary sessions or two calendar years—reduced to two sessions or one year by the Parliament Act 1949. Since the passage of these Acts, the House of Commons has remained the dominant branch of Parliament, both in theory and in practice.
Therefore, at the turn of the 20th century, the House of Commons was, at best, equal to the House of Lords.


Regarding Parliament before the 19th century
The principle of ministerial responsibility to the Lower House did not develop until the nineteenth century. The House of Lords was superior to the House of Commons both in theory and in practice. Members of the House of Commons were elected in an antiquated electoral system, under which constituencies of vastly different sizes existed. Thus, the borough of Old Sarum, with seven voters, could elect two members, as could the borough of Dunwich, which had completely disappeared into the sea due to land erosion. In many cases, members of the Upper House controlled tiny constituencies, known as pocket boroughs or rotten boroughs, and could ensure the election of their relatives or supporters. Many seats in the House of Commons were "owned" by the Lords. After the reforms of the nineteenth century (beginning in 1832), the electoral system in the Lower House was much more regularised. No longer dependent on the Upper House for their seats, members of the House of Commons began to grow more assertive.
At the time the US Constitution was implemented, the House of Commons did not serve as a democratic government. Granted, the concept of democracy was being thrown around and experimented with, but the House of Lords and the Monarchy itself governed the UK at the time.

I do not believe that a House of Commons that was inferior to an appointed body constitutes a functional representative democracy.

Yes, Europe is a shining city on the hill.

They're the ones that hate arabs, muslims and foreigners, right?

Just making sure.

Edit: Oh! And how could I forget the Jews.

Just about everyone in the US are immigrants or decendants of immigrants, because the only real Americans were those who the immigrants and decendants of immigrants hunted down since the day the first settlers came from Europe.

I referred to original immigrants, not descendants of immigrants. For non-Native Americans, "descendant of Immigrant" is as close as your going to get to being native, yes. Most prominent historical personalities in the US being immigrants is rather due to the fact that most prominent historical personalities in the US were involved in its founding.

I do not think it is fun to bash the US. I attract attention to issues where the US has gone wrong. Part of the responsibilities of being a superpower is behaving responsibly, and dealing with criticism. Honestly, for people who've got thousands upon thousands of the most devastating weapons mankind has ever built, you're pretty childish. *whine* "What did we ever do to you?"

Unless you can give me facts instead of your own opinions then I will never say anything against you again.

Read that again, slowly. :)

Or if the US ever beat you up and took your lunch money or stuffed you in a locker, then Id say you have a pretty good reason for not liking it.

"Honestly, for people who've got thousands upon thousands of the most devastating weapons mankind has ever built, you're pretty childish." (see above).

As far as I remember there has never been a state (when I say state I mean nationaly) sanctioned book burning.

That (http://public.lisnews.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/09/2028257&tid=) is (http://www.reclaimamerica.org/pages/comentarypage.asp?story=451=) merely (http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html) a (http://www.booksatoz.com/censorship/banned.htm) technicality (http://www.cyc-net.org/today2001/today010810.html).

You don't need to burn a book to get rid of it. And who needs "national" book sanctions when libraries will ban it and powerful retail companies will not sell it? If nobody will give you the book, then what does it matter if it is forbidden to own it?

Just thinkof what it would be like if you hadnt been born in a nation that gives you the freedom to speak your mind in every way shape and form.

Jokes (http://blog.librarylaw.com/librarylaw/2004/11/fbi_raids_ficti.html) would (http://residentbush.com/Aftermath-2004_Annie.html) be (http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html) too (http://usliberals.about.com/od/patriotactcivilrights/) easy (http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/freedomofspeech.html) here (http://www.crlp.org/pub_bp_ggr_page2.html).

Last note: You make use of the technicality that "this isn't the entire US". Show me the "entire US". Where is the mainstream? There are many mainstreams in America, especially considering that 51% of you elected Bush and 49% Kerry. And no, I feel little regret for ignoring these 49% when criticizing America. They're not the ones who decide.

yeah, because the world was such a utopia before America
was founded.

Well, it still isn't now, y'know.

Admittedly, there are some good things/people that come out of America. I mean, think of Rachel Corrie (http://www.rachelcorrie.org).

Sadly, these are usually the ones America doesn't want to remember.

The ones they do acknowledge (eg Washington, Jefferson, Franklin...) are almost unilaterally either

a. ) Dead for centuries or
b. ) European immigrants, or
c. ) Both.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?
Much of what I read in these sorts of threads I find somewhat true or outrageously ridiculous. But this piqued my interest. Which immigrants are you talking about?

Yes, Europe is a shining city on the hill.

They're the ones that hate arabs, muslims and foreigners, right?

Just making sure.

Edit: Oh! And how could I forget the Jews.

You seem to view "Europe" as one country with the same views. It is actually a lot of countries, and in some cases our views are conflicting. I have found arguments by Americans along the lines of "Why do you say that you're perfect [when we're actually just disapproving of your forgein policies] when you're not, because Hitler was European, and he didn't like Jews, therefore you Europeans are racist! Ha!" And there have been Jews and Arabs [and so Muslims] in Europe since Roman times! And if you haven't taken what I said earlier in, EUROPE IS MADE UP OF MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY! So we hate ourseves now!? In fact, I think you'll find that America is viewed as the xenophobic country at the moment. Muslims are suffering abuse in parts of the US due to fear of Islam stirred up by an exagerrated terrorist threat. And while America bashing is hardly infrequent by Europeans, I see little American bashing. But quite a few Americans on here bash Europeans as people - it certainly seems like some of you are hating foreigners to me.

Yes, Europe is a shining city on the hill.

They're the ones that hate arabs, muslims and foreigners, right?

Just making sure.

Edit: Oh! And how could I forget the Jews.
Oh! And how could i forget to turn my brain on before posting.
You are an embarrasment for the people who share your viewpoint and a fine example of loudmouthed ignorance. Way to go, i surely like the US better now. :rolleyes:

At the time the US Constitution was implemented, the House of Commons did not serve as a democratic government. Granted, the concept of democracy was being thrown around and experimented with, but the House of Lords and the Monarchy itself governed the UK at the time.

I do not believe that a House of Commons that was inferior to an appointed body constitutes a functional representative democracy.

Actually even in the 19th century the Lords ratified or failed to ratify legislation proposed, debated and ratified in the commons. And if we're talking about the legitimacy of voting constitutions, gerrymandering is legal in the US. Legal now.

At the time the US Constitution was implemented, the House of Commons did not serve as a democratic government.

Furthermore, at the time the US Constitution was implemented, wasn't slavery legal? And didn't black folks have different rights than white folks? And is that a democratic government?

Lets talk about the United Kingdom for a while, since you refuse to shift your position on the USA.

For those who don't know, both the House of Commons and the House of Lords have been around since the 14th century. The House of Lords today is a mostly symbolic unelected body.The House of Commons is an elected assembly that constitutes the real legislative body of the UK.

However, until the Parliament Act of 1911, the House of Lords was far from a relic of the past. I quote from Wikipedia (How's that for objective and unbiased? Or should I be getting my info from God himself?):

Regarding the Parliament Acts:

Therefore, at the turn of the 20th century, the House of Commons was, at best, equal to the House of Lords.


Regarding Parliament before the 19th century

At the time the US Constitution was implemented, the House of Commons did not serve as a democratic government. Granted, the concept of democracy was being thrown around and experimented with, but the House of Lords and the Monarchy itself governed the UK at the time.

I do not believe that a House of Commons that was inferior to an appointed body constitutes a functional representative democracy.

Curious, from what year did the United states government have a fully representative government?

Ok been hearing alot of "the US is the world's oldest democracy".
However, the basis of his boast remains unclear.


If by "democracy" we are referring to a system in which a class of slave-owners held regular elections to determine which of them would rule over the slaves, then Greece established such a democracy more than 2,500 years before the Americans did so. Furthermore, in ancient Greece all citizens had the right to vote and not just those who owned property.

If by "democracy" we are referring to a system of government elected by universal franchise, then there are numerous countries which adopted this before the United States, including the Soviet Union. Even Canada extended the franchise to its Aboriginal citizens before most Black Americans received the right to vote.

If by "democracy" we are referring to a government elected by a majority of its citizens and which actually respects the opinions of those citizens, then it can be said with certainty that the United States has still not achieved such status. i.e. Gore v Bush elections

Ooooh.... and lets not forget the right of women to vote!

very important for a fully representative gov.

It's rather annoying that bashing America is heavily tolerated while any sort of defense is labled "arrogant patriotism".
Usually because both are True sadly :{
(Defense of America usually is a arragont patriotism and bashing is tolerated because America says so in Freedom of Speech)

I just read what Kadmark posted and it appears to be some of attempt at being funny. If it isn't and you believe what you posted to be true then I think it would be for the best if you stopped living.

Before i post what i am going to post right now, i would ilke to say that i have tremendous respect for all epople on this thread that has been able to argue their viewpoint intelligently without resorting to flaming.

I have no preoblem with euopeans is general, i have no peoblem with any race/country/people group. It seems though that the actions of a few describe a people group. This just is not so. Sure, the US has some xenophobic rednecks who don't care about anything but keeping their guns and watching nascar, but that is hardly the whole, nor half, nor even a quarter of the population. I am a conservative, and i don;t like nascar, i have no problem with black people, i don;t beat people over the head with bibles, i'm not rich, i don;t shun gays (even though i don;t agree with them) I don;t shun foreigners, in fact i have taken a man who lost his baggage (and coincidentally his money) from germany and got him a hotel for the week he was waiting for his baggage). And dont; tell me i am not a "true" conservative. Because i am. I am what we should strive to be. What people like Rush limbaugh have tainted with rhetoric.

I am american. I am from Louisiana. I voted for Bush. I agreed with the war in Iraq at the outset, and i still do, but not for all the same reasons. I don't like my country being slandered or attacked, so yes, i defend it, but withoiut resorting to remarks like "your just stupid." I am patriotic, buit not to the point of ignorance. I don;t dislike europens, but i do not like theiir generalizations.

Sooner or later we will reach a state of one world, preferably through democractic means, with countries voluntarily sacrificing their soverign rights for the betterment of all mankind. We only have one planet and for humanity to survive to reach others we need to work together. If America ends up taking control of the planet by force then we still reach one world status and i don't have a problem with that because once we are united, by any means, then eventually freedom will prevail. Even if Bush was to become a Ruler of the World dictator he is still mortal. Governments change all the time.

You seem to view "Europe" as one country with the same views. It is actually a lot of countries, and in some cases our views are conflicting. I have found arguments by Americans along the lines of "Why do you say that you're perfect [when we're actually just disapproving of your forgein policies] when you're not, because Hitler was European, and he didn't like Jews, therefore you Europeans are racist! Ha!" And there have been Jews and Arabs [and so Muslims] in Europe since Roman times! And if you haven't taken what I said earlier in, EUROPE IS MADE UP OF MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY!

Okay, two issues here. The statement I made was meant to be inflammatory, and to prove a point, which I believe it did. There are a lot of problems plaguing Europe as a whole; racism and bigotry IRT Arabs, Muslims and Jews is one of them, and I think you can agree with me.

I understand that Europe is a heterogeneous continent, but keep in mind that so is the United States, and that there are a ton of conflicting views here as well. Saying that America as a whole has done anything - or held any specific view - is as ridiculous as the statement I made.

So we hate ourseves now!? In fact, I think you'll find that America is viewed as the xenophobic country at the moment. Muslims are suffering abuse in parts of the US due to fear of Islam stirred up by an exagerrated terrorist threat. And while America bashing is hardly infrequent by Europeans, I see little American bashing. But quite a few Americans on here bash Europeans as people - it certainly seems like some of you are hating foreigners to me.

Xenophobic? I can admit that some small areas of our country are experiencing some anti-Muslim sentiment due to fears of terrorism, and that the government's activities in this regard have, in certain isolated cases, been disturbing. But I would argue that America - generally speaking, when taking the entire population as well as the government's longtime policies and not simply this administration's - is more accepting of foreigners than any other nation on Earth.

As to why there is "European-bashing" by Americans, have you considered that it's because we feel affronted by Europeans? Tell me, how many Americans offer commentary on Europe's policies, it's governments, it's administrations? I assure you, except for people with exceptional education and/or an interest in a certain European nation's acitivities, you won't find it common. Yet Europeans seem to feel completely justified in offering commentary on America in every way, shape, and form [our culture, our values, our people, our government, our domestic and foreign policy, our history, &c]. Criticism of that sort tends to raise a person's ire, wouldn't you agree? I'm not saying that insulting anyone based on their nation of birth is acceptable.. but then, Americans are all arrogant and materialistic, right?

Oh! And how could i forget to turn my brain on before posting.
You are an embarrasment for the people who share your viewpoint and a fine example of loudmouthed ignorance. Way to go, i surely like the US better now.

Ah, judging a nation and it's people based on the actions and words of an individual. Surely a shining example of the enlightenment that all Europeans possess and all ignorant Americans are lacking. Thank you so much for showing me the error of my ways! I only wish I lived in Europe! Glee!