NationStates Jolt Archive

Source = Yahoo! UK & Ireland News (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050213/344/fccwt.html)
Goth rock star Marilyn Manson has dismissed suggestions that his work may have inspired the killer of schoolgirl Jodi Jones.

Luke Mitchell, convicted last month of murdering his girlfriend in Dalkeith, Midlothian, on June 30, 2003, when they were both 14, learned on Friday that he must spend at least 20 years behind bars.

Jodi was stripped, tied up and stabbed to death in woods between her home in Easthouses and Newbattle, where Mitchell, now 16, lived with his mother Corinne and older brother Shane.

The schoolgirl's death and her injuries bore similarities to the gruesome "Black Dahlia" murder of 1940s Hollywood actress Elizabeth Short. Mitchell was a fan of Manson, who produced paintings depicting Short's killing.

Lord Nimmo Smith, the trial judge at the High Court in Edinburgh, said he believed Mitchell had carried an image of those paintings in his mind when he killed Jodi.

Manson said he had heard of the Jodi case but did not want "to give it much publicity".

But he added: "What I do know is that it is all about the education that parents give their children and the influences they receive, not putting the blame elsewhere."

Lord Nimmo Smith said Mitchell's heavy cannabis use may have been a factor in the murder, while "with hindsight", his upbringing may also have contributed. Nor could the boy's obsession with Satanism be dismissed as "mere adolescent rebellion", the judge added.

Defence counsel Donald Findlay QC said his client continued to maintain his innocence and told the court on Friday: "Whatever is said about Luke... so long as that young man maintains to me he did not kill Jodi, the fight to clear his name will go on." What do you think? Is it right that Marilyn Manson recieves the blame for something that Mitchell did?
In my opinion, it's not right. It's upto Mitchell how he interprets Manson's work.

It's nowhere near right. It's just like the whole "Videogames are responsible for increased violence and drug use!" clam.

Blame the parents, they should have had their son drugged with antipsycotics years ago. (mindless awnser)

It's nowhere near right. It's just like the whole "Videogames are responsible for increased violence and drug use!" clam.
Really, the only one to blame other than the kid is the parents for not supervising and controlling the child. They could have seen that the music was not right for their particular child and not allowed it.

Boo, censorship. Hooray for parental responsibility.

Now hang on a minute, that's just silly. You're saying it was the music that made him kill, but it was the fault of the parents for letting their children listen to it? What right is it of a child's parents to dictate what music a child likes? It is more likely that the parents are responsible because they didn't provide the child with enough attention, or that they were too strict, or too indiscriminate with their rules. It's very difficult to raise a child, though, so we shouldn't be too hard on the parents. Ultimately, the responsibility for a murder lies with the murderer, and nobody else. Saying they killed someone because some ego-centric rock star wrote a song about killing is like saying that Mother Teresa only helped people because there are songs about God.

Well, you have to blame someone else but yourself for these kinda things.

Parents will look for any excuse to dismiss that they are shit parents.

I'm trying to think of a MM song that would inspire someone to kill.

Anyone want to help?

:confused:

I'm trying to think of a MM song that would inspire someone to kill.

Anyone want to help?

:confused:
I know, I mean really, the kid could've at least been a Cannibal Corpse fan!
One of the few bands which you could probably get a warning just off posting some of their song titles! Not to mention the lyrics, which usually make you want to scoop out your brain with a teaspoon rather than have those images linger!

Wow, for some odd reason, I'm all cheerful about this. It's probably the sleep deprivation and the caffeine talking.

Although I don't like him, I agree that Marilyn Manson is completely innocent of this. If someone is screwed up enough to kill because of a song, then they are screwed up enough to kill anyway. As for the paintings, they may have been inspiration as to how to go about the murder, but had he never even heard of them he would still have killed her, just probably in a different way. After all, artists and musicians have painted/sung about practically everything. After seeing a picture of a woman, would you go out and get a sex change (assuming you are a guy).

I agree that this crime is sick, and should be punished to the full extent of the law, but is it really necessary to transfer the blame onto Manson again?

Also, isn't cannabis supposed to make people less violent?

Parents will look for any excuse to dismiss that they are shit parents.Agreed.

Now hang on a minute, that's just silly. You're saying it was the music that made him kill, but it was the fault of the parents for letting their children listen to it? What right is it of a child's parents to dictate what music a child likes? It is more likely that the parents are responsible because they didn't provide the child with enough attention, or that they were too strict, or too indiscriminate with their rules. It's very difficult to raise a child, though, so we shouldn't be too hard on the parents. Ultimately, the responsibility for a murder lies with the murderer, and nobody else. Saying they killed someone because some ego-centric rock star wrote a song about killing is like saying that Mother Teresa only helped people because there are songs about God.
How can parents have no responsiclity? Children lack some rights because they are not mature enough to make some decisions. I am not saying that it not the kids fault. It is. And he should go to jail.

However, parents should be attentive enough to know if music like that is bad for their kid. They should know if their kid will take something they see on TV and try to do it. Its called good parenting and they have every right to stop it.

I'm trying to think of a MM song that would inspire someone to kill.

Anyone want to help?

:confused:I have five of his albums, because I'm such a 'Mansonite', but I can't think of any songs that would inspire somebody to kill.

Also, isn't cannabis supposed to make people less violent?

OMG, it's reefer madness!!

I have five of his albums, because I'm such a Mansonite, but I can't think of any songs that would inspire somebody to kill.

I love them too (although I don't listen to the earlier albums too much). The only thing that would probably make me kill in regards to Manson was finding out Twiggy left the band. :( I was so sad the day that was announced.

All this shows is that the accusers have obviously not listened to the lyrics. They just here 'angry' instuments and vaguely confusing (and therefore diabolical) lyrics.

Although I don't like him, I agree that Marilyn Manson is completely innocent of this. If someone is screwed up enough to kill because of a song, then they are screwed up enough to kill anyway. As for the paintings, they may have been inspiration as to how to go about the murder, but had he never even heard of them he would still have killed her, just probably in a different way. After all, artists and musicians have painted/sung about practically everything. After seeing a picture of a woman, would you go out and get a sex change (assuming you are a guy).

I agree that this crime is sick, and should be punished to the full extent of the law, but is it really necessary to transfer the blame onto Manson again?

Also, isn't cannabis supposed to make people less violent?

Not all people behave some way using the same drugs. It's like happy or violent drunks.

Not all people behave some way using the same drugs. It's like happy or violent drunks.
I was just reminded of a great story about a drunk that my cousin told me yesterday, but I'm going to fight my natural instinct to threadjack.

I love them too (although I don't listen to the earlier albums too much). The only thing that would probably make me kill in regards to Manson was finding out Twiggy left the band. :( I was so sad the day that was announced.I think my musical tastes were still developing when Twiggy left.

All this shows is that the accusers have obviously not listened to the lyrics. They just here 'angry' instuments and vaguely confusing (and therefore diabolical) lyrics.Maybe the judges somehow got the idea that he was 'goth' like, hence them coming up with the idea that his interest in Satanism was not part of his "mere adolescent rebellion", and his interest in Manson. I think people like him give Manson and Satanism a bad name. I would dismiss any claim that The Church of Satan (LaVey Satanism) had any involvement in the killing. As they don't condone killings of any sort, sacrificial or otherwise.

I was just reminded of a great story about a drunk that my cousin told me yesterday, but I'm going to fight my natural instinct to threadjack.


:D

I was just reminded of a great story about a drunk that my cousin told me yesterday, but I'm going to fight my natural instinct to threadjack.It's probably not for me to decide, but you can tell it if you want :D As long as you link it to the thread.

As long as you link it to the topic.
You see, that's the problem, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I just have a hyperactive mind and can't concentrate for long enough to hold a proper debate, and accidentally end up killifying people's threads with random spam.

Like this, for example.
:D

I think my musical tastes were still developing when Twiggy left.

A sad day for Manson lovers everywhere.

Maybe the judges somehow got the idea that he was 'goth' like, hence them coming up with the idea that his interest in Satanism was not part of his "mere adolescent rebellion", and his interest in Manson. I think people like him give Manson and Satanism a bad name. I would dismiss any claim that The Church of Satan (LaVey Satanism) had any involvement in the killing. As they don't condone killings of any sort, sacrificial or otherwise.

Yes, ain't Satanic Panic a fantastic thing.

Click! (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0064/0064_01.asp)
Stuff like the footnote in this cell:
http://www.chick.com/tractimages8295/0064/0064_14.gif

This (http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra_intro.htm) is also interesting too.

You see, that's the problem, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I just have a hyperactive mind and can't concentrate for long enough to hold a proper debate, and accidentally end up killifying people's threads with random spam.

Like this, for example.
:DHaha, ok.

This (http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra_intro.htm) is also interesting too.
Don'cha love the ReligiousTolerance site?

Don'cha love the ReligiousTolerance site?
Yep.

Though for some reason it is blocked by Norton. (At least at my home it is)

This (http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra_intro.htm) is also interesting too.Compare that to this (http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm).
Satanism respects and exalts life. Children and animals are the purest expressions of that life force, and as such are held sacred and precious...

The schoolgirl's death and her injuries bore similarities to the gruesome "Black Dahlia" murder of 1940s Hollywood actress Elizabeth Short. Mitchell was a fan of Manson, who produced paintings depicting Short's killing.

Lord Nimmo Smith, the trial judge at the High Court in Edinburgh, said he believed Mitchell had carried an image of those paintings in his mind when he killed Jodi.

So, there is an often overlooked episode of Beavis & Butthead after the backlash against that show that had the boys emulating Ben Franklin's kite experiment after they saw it on TV. (It also, I believe, contained Beavis spasming during a Rage Against the Machine video where a guy was on fire. He couldn't say 'fire' anymore so he just muttered uncontrolably.)

I'm reminded of that episode in light of the part I quoted. The murder, it appears, simulated not an act by Manson, but an historical murder that Manson had represented. But I don't even like the genre that Manson's music is a subgenre of, and I've heard of that murder. Is Unsolved Mysteries just as much to blame?

Fantasies are fantasies because they're an ideal you wouldn't really want to happen-otherwise they'd be goals. You don't learn that line instinctively, someone has to help show you where it is. That is where the parents should come in. Having said that, it's no small task and it's easy for me to armchair parent. But to reach out to Manson through a murder that happened before even he was born for blame seems a bit much.

so music and other media dont influence peoples moods and ideas then...

rather short sighted to say that they dont :cool:

so music and other media dont influence peoples moods and ideas then...

rather short sighted to say that they dont :cool:They do influence moods and ideas, but ultimately it's upto the fan how they do so. Or it's upto the fan as to whether or not they would act upon those influenced moods and ideas.

so music and other media dont influence peoples moods and ideas then...

rather short sighted to say that they dont :cool:

They do influence, sure.

But they don't cause things.

And as any Manson fan could tell you, there are no songs that could influence this kinda stuff.

Source = Yahoo! UK & Ireland News (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050213/344/fccwt.html)
What do you think? Is it right that Marilyn Manson recieves the blame for something that Mitchell did?
In my opinion, it's not right. It's upto Mitchell how he interprets Manson's work.

And more crimes have been 'inspired' by the bible than by the rest of western media collectively....

Manson can't be held responsible for some adolescent with violent tendencies.

Any more than the Beatles are actually responsible for Sharon Tate's death.