NationStates Jolt Archive

Seeing how most people here seem to be against the action the U.S. is taking to stop terrorism, I would like to know, have you witnessed the fury of terrorism directly; As in you were in or around the WTC Buildings, in Beslan, in Islamabad, etc. ?

Seeing how most people here seem to be against the action the U.S. is taking to stop terrorism, I would like to know, have you witnessed the fury of terrorism directly; As in you were in or around the WTC Buildings, in Beslan, in Islamabad, etc. ?

Nope, but my youngest daughter and her friends were in the Windows On The World restaurant at noon on 09/10/01 ... that hits a bit close to home for me.

I have been forced to file untold ammounts of extra paperwork because of it, completely change my habits at work, (forced me to impliment key tracing, lock checking, CCTV, etc. at work), background check employees now, and my company was forced to spend more than we brought in last year to cover the cost of the new coast guard security plan. So i guess you could say I have been affected. Also, i live close to where the plane went down in PA and helped with the clean up efforts there as a volunteer. And my uncle works in the Pentagon. But no one has died because of terroism.

Seeing how most people here seem to be against the action the U.S. is taking to stop terrorism, I would like to know, have you witnessed the fury of terrorism directly; As in you were in or around the WTC Buildings, in Beslan, in Islamabad, etc. ?

Yup. 33 years in Belfast.

I have.

It was a peacefull, average day in Islamabad, Pakistan. I was hanging out with my friends, playing around, and then BOOM! A huge explosion was heard across the area. Not even 300 meters away, the church near the embassy was being assaulted by terrorists. One second they were there, throwing grenades, and then they were out. As we rushed to go help, sirens wirred across the area. The cries of the people were heard everywhere. Although the adults wouldn't let us get very far, near by dazed people were walking out. As I looked to see if my friends(who went to the church) were OK, I saw something horrible. One of my friends mother was dead. According to the reports, she and her older daughter had jumped on the grenade to defend my friend, Zach Green. They both died.

So while I see that attacks carried out by the Americans may be bad, I know firsthand that they are not as horrible as those attacks, and that those terrorists deserve what they are getting.

March 17, 2002 (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/03/17/pakistan.church.0900/index.html)

I was in Paris in 95, when terrorist bombed an underground subway platform. I think 10 people were killed and about 100 injured.
I went the site a few days after the attack, I was amazed that more people didn't get killed. All that was left was a just crater.

My mother worked for the Dept. of Agriculture. In OKC. That happened to be in the Alfred P Murrow federal building. You know, the one an American terrorist blew up in 1995. She had several friends killed. I lived in Austin at the time and couldn't get through on the phone.

Yhea, When the planes flew into the WTC buildings on 9/11 I was forced to sit through half my dad watching all the BS on tv about it instead of doing work which I for once would have rathered do. What a waste of time!.

Seeing how most people here seem to be against the action the U.S. is taking to stop terrorism, I would like to know, have you witnessed the fury of terrorism directly; As in you were in or around the WTC Buildings, in Beslan, in Islamabad, etc. ?

I did see the second plane hit the tower on live tv (CNN) and was in NY in oktober of that same year and saw what was left of the ruins. The smell was really bad, some police officer told be it was of the people still under the ruins along with a few other things so in that way I was affected but not dirctly in the sence you are talking about.

My Nan and Great Uncle lived throught the London Blitz 1940.

My Nan was in a cinema and was watching a film with her friends when the film stopped and the cinema manager came in front of the screen to tell them "Well, the man is here again! Those who want to leave, leave, those who want to stay, stay."

The "man" was Hitler, and the cinema manger was offering the choice of going to the bunkers or sitting out the bombing in the cinema.

She chose the cinema, and her and her friends watched a film while the Luftwaffe threw all it had at London.

She told of stories....how one underground station was just filled in and covered up because there was too many bodies to retrieve and it would hit civillian morale.

Apparently, the German plane had dropped the bomb, and whether the pilot did it on purpose, we will never know, but the bomb dropped, and and shot down the stairs down to the underground station where people were sheltering, and well, you can guess.


Boom. Lots of dead people.

I bet the pilot could not have done that again if he tried.

During the IRA bombings, I was just a kid and I was in London alot, in the areas that were high profile.

I went to the Docklands just before the IRA bombed it.

My Great Uncle who had lived through the Blitz of '40 to become a Merchant Navyman on the convoys, used to walk past a house day after day in London.

Well one day, the house exploded, not long after he had walked past it, and it was not far from his house.

Apparently, the house he used to walk past turned out to be an IRA hideout.

Hmmm... not sure how to answer this.

A nail bomb exploded in a pub in Soho in London. I've never been so glad to get a phone call from my dad. He literally worked across the road from the pub. I'd never been so glad that my had was a workaholic, the director had offered to take him out for a drink because they were behind schedule and had been working flat out all day, but my dad insisted that work through lunch and get the job done.

And also in 1993, when I was 7, a socialist terrorist group called Red Action bombed the front of Harrods. 6 days later there was another bomb attack on a train. I have a distinctive memory of one of these attacks as I remember I was having a bath and remember the whole house shaking. About 2 months later the police come knocking on our door and escort us from our house, while they do a raid on another house in the street in an attempt to catch the bombers of the two attacks. They found 22lbs of Semtex, keys to a garage elsewhere in London where they found a huge amount of home made explosive and all the gadets you need to make a detonate a bomb.

So yeah, I have been affectedly by terrorist actions, but neither me nor my family were ever hurt.

I drove through Oklahoma City two days after it happened. We had a trip to New Mexico to see family planned and we inadvertently got to see the aftermath. I think that counts. Also, a friend of a friend, who I had meet on several occasions, worked across the street.

EDIT:
I do not know if this counts but it is terrorism of a lesser sort. When I was back in high school, some asshat called in a bomb threat or the like what seemed like once a week.

No, but a friend of mine died in the Tsunami. I only found out when he didn't return to Uni and after I phoned his house to ask where he was and was met by his mother. Not the best phone call I have ever had to make.

No, but Bali is north of where I live.
* Boat trip away *

There was an IRA bomb went off just outside a lecture theatre when I was in a class there. No biggie.

Yes. Badermeinhoff actions while living in Germany, Red Brigades in Italy, IRA bombings in London and the UK and Real IRA bombings in London.

My grandmum lives 'next to' a street where a nail bomb exploded. It happened less than 500 m away... Fortunately, she was unaffected!

I did see the second plane hit the tower on live tv (CNN) and was in NY in oktober of that same year and saw what was left of the ruins. The smell was really bad, some police officer told be it was of the people still under the ruins along with a few other things so in that way I was affected but not dirctly in the sence you are talking about.
I too saw the 2nd plane hit the WTC on live TV (CNN), and I was so shocked, that I couldn't watch anymore. However, I am just as upset thinking about the innocent civilians that are dying daily in Iraq.

I live in New York... Nuff said?

I too saw the 2nd plane hit the WTC on live TV (CNN), and I was so shocked, that I couldn't watch anymore. However, I am just as upset thinking about the innocent civilians that are dying daily in Iraq.

And how many would have died had we not been in there? Ask the millions in those mass graves

I have. My aunt's one friend was almost killed in the Sept. 11 attacks, as she worked there (on the 102nd floor, actually). She survived, as she was vacationing in Firenze at the time. All of her collegues, however, did not.

i vote both "Yes" and "a family member/close friend was killed/wounded in one."

Terrorism is overrated.

My oldest son works in the DC area and is frequently at the Capitol and the Pentagon. When news of the attacks came, I immediately started trying to reach him and his family. Phone lines were jammed and I couldn't get through. Late that night his wife managed to get a call out to us that they were all well, that my son was at a conference in Atlanta, but that he had been in the Pentagon near the hit the day before. A member of his team was killed in the attack on the Pentagon, however. I know that I became obsessed with watching the news channels for days afterwards...I was filled with sick dread and a new fear that I had never conceived I would know. To this day, whenever I see a plane in the sky, I pray that God keep them safe and guide them home.

Terrorism is overrated.

Terrorism is a gross aberration in human behavior and, as such, cannot be overrated. One terrorist attack is an attack on all people.

And how many would have died had we not been in there? Ask the millions in those mass graves
Ohhh we are up to millions now are we? How many in the last 10 years not related to deaths due to UN sanctions, or US bombs?

Two wrongs do not make one right.

Ohhh we are up to millions now are we? How many in the last 10 years not related to deaths due to UN sanctions, or US bombs?

Two wrongs do not make one right.


Yes, those extremely enforced sanctions, which now the UN states were violated more times than they could count! Ask Saddam how much food you can buy with the $21 billion he siphoned from the Oil-for-Food Scam!!

Ohhh we are up to millions now are we? How many in the last 10 years not related to deaths due to UN sanctions, or US bombs?

Two wrongs do not make one right.

The numbers aren't in the millions, but they have accounted for over 100,000. Somehow I don't see where the UN sanctions or US bombs had anything to do with Saddam gassing civilians, torturing and killing those (and their families) opposed to his brutal regime, and the multitude of other atrocities he committed on his people. As for the UN sanctions, perhaps if the oil for food money had been used as it was intended, the people would have been better off and the infrastructure wouldn't have been such a mess. Of course, I'm sure they all preferred another palace to view to a bowl of rice.

Yes, those extremely enforced sanctions, which now the UN states were violated more times than they could count! Ask Saddam how much food you can buy with the $21 billion he siphoned from the Oil-for-Food Scam!!

Yet Paul Bremmer, who lost track of $9 Billion gets the Congressional Medal of Freedom....

hmmmmmm

Yet Paul Bremmer, who lost track of $9 Billion gets the Congressional Medal of Freedom....

hmmmmmm

:confused: source?

My cousin and his fiancee were on Pan Am Flight 103.

Yes, those extremely enforced sanctions, which now the UN states were violated more times than they could count! Ask Saddam how much food you can buy with the $21 billion he siphoned from the Oil-for-Food Scam!!

Allowed by the US. Don't think their hands were not dirty.

There are mass graves in Iraq, the newest from the invasion and the resulting violence.

If the true aim of the US Bush administration was to save lives (which I don't think it was) they have failed miserably.

Yet Paul Bremmer, who lost track of $9 Billion gets the Congressional Medal of Freedom....

hmmmmmm

If you, instead, are talking about the 9 billion that was funneled into the Iraqi ministries in the earlier months, which the Iraqis did not and probably were not equipped to track, then that is a different matter. Were we to withhold the funding to this country until they had proper accounting procedures in place, or pour the money in and hope that most of it would make its way to where it needed to be? If the Iraqi elections don't give you a clue as to why Bremmer was awarded the Medal of Freedom, well...never mind...I won't waste my time.

Terrorism is a gross aberration in human behavior and, as such, cannot be overrated. One terrorist attack is an attack on all people.
Traffic and cigarettes are the real dangeour.

The IRA bomb (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1201273.stm) at the BBC TV centre was 1/2 mile from my house. The windows were shaken by the blast.

Where did the money for that act of terrorism come from? The US? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm).

Personally, no. Thank god.

Not directly, no, but I have family in Omagh and Belfast and I've heard their stories from time to time. Indirectly, I am affected by every terrorist attack in many ways.

Every time some pseudo-Muslim blows something up, I know I that I will be spending the next three days doing my best to fight off wave upon wave of "More proof Muslims R teh suck" forum messages.

Allowed by the US. Don't think their hands were not dirty.

There are mass graves in Iraq, the newest from the invasion and the resulting violence.

If the true aim of the US Bush administration was to save lives (which I don't think it was) they have failed miserably.

Allowed by the US???? It was sanctioned by the UN by its participation in the scam! The US has already tried and convicted a citizen that was involved. The first and only country to do so, I might add.

Innocent lives have been lost, mostly do to slaughter by the very element that forced our president to declare a war on terrorism...everywhere.

The goal of the administration is to save lives in the long term through democracy. No nation has ever won liberty without bloodshed. For every group that longs for freedom, there is another that wishes to deny them that right and to subjugate them.

:confused: source?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050130/us_nm/iraq_funds_dc_3

U.S Did Not Safeguard $8.8 Bln of Iraq Money -Audit

Sun Jan 30, 4:36 PM ET

Add to My Yahoo! U.S. National - Reuters

By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S.-led authority that governed Iraq (news - web sites) after the 2003 invasion did not properly safeguard $8.8 billion of Iraq's own money and this lack of oversight opened up these funds to corruption, said a U.S. audit released on Sunday.


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The U.S. Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction was scathing in criticism of how the Coalition Provisional Authority handled Iraqi money until it handed over power last June to Iraq's interim government.

"The CPA provided less-than-adequate controls for approximately $8.8 billion in DFI (Development Fund for Iraq) funds provided to Iraqi ministries through the national budget process," said the report, released on the same day Iraqis voted in elections.

"We believe the CPA management of Iraq's national budget process and oversight of Iraqi funds was burdened by severe inefficiencies and poor management," it said.

DFI is made up of proceeds from Iraqi oil sales, frozen assets from foreign governments and surplus from the U.N. Oil for Food Program. Its handling has already come under fire by several U.N.-mandated audits.

The report said the CPA failed to ensure funds were not used to pay "ghost" employees and cited one example where CPA officials authorized payment for about 74,000 guards but only a fraction of these could later be validated.

The audit said there was no assurance that the funds were used for purposes mandated by United Nations (news - web sites) resolutions. U.N auditors have also accused the CPA of sloppily managing billions of dollars of Iraqi oil money.

BREMER REJECTION

Former CPA chief Paul Bremer, who received a Presidential Medal of Freedom last month for his work in Iraq, rejected the U.S. audit's findings and said it did not "meet the standards that Americans have come to expect of the Inspector General."

"The draft report assumes that Western-style budgeting and accounting procedures could be immediately and fully implemented in the midst of war," said Bremer in a written reply to auditors when he received the first draft.

Bremer said any delays in paying Iraqi public servants' salaries would have raised the security threat to Iraqis and Americans and cost more lives.

In addition, Bremer said the Iraqi ministries had no regular payroll systems and the "system had been corrupted beyond repair by decades of cronyism and ad hoc fixes."

Pentagon (news - web sites) spokesman Bryan Whitman also disagreed with the audit's findings and said the CPA had instituted a series of reforms, including actions to fight corruption.

"The CPA was operating under extraordinary conditions from its inception until mission completion. Throughout, the CPA strived earnestly for sound management, transparency, and oversight," said Whitman in E-mailed comments to Reuters.

The auditors said they understood the CPA was working in a dangerous environment but it had a responsibility to ensure Iraqi ministries had basic financial controls before they were entrusted with handling such large amounts of money.

"The fact that the Iraqi ministries ceased to or had never functioned, lacked basic tools and operated in a cash economy was precisely why the CPA should have provided oversight of the financial management of the funds."

A review of 10 payments made by the CPA Comptrollers Office between October 2003 and June 2004 found none of these -- ranging between $120 million and $900 million -- included documentation such as budget spending plans.



In another example, about $1.5 billion in cash allocations was made to Iraqi banks between January and April 2004 for operating expenses, yet spending plans supported only about $498 million in these expenses.

One of the main benefactors of Iraq funds was Texas-based firm Halliburton, which was paid about $1.7 billion dollars out of those funds to bring in fuel for Iraqi civilians. U.N. auditors have asked for a full accounting of these funds.

If you, instead, are talking about the 9 billion that was funneled into the Iraqi ministries in the earlier months, which the Iraqis did not and probably were not equipped to track, then that is a different matter. Were we to withhold the funding to this country until they had proper accounting procedures in place, or pour the money in and hope that most of it would make its way to where it needed to be? If the Iraqi elections don't give you a clue as to why Bremmer was awarded the Medal of Freedom, well...never mind...I won't waste my time.

So its fine to just give out money left right and centre? Of course that Haliburton was handed 1.7 Billion is fine...of course its fine DOH!

I bet you call yourself a conservative as well huh?

Yet Paul Bremmer, who lost track of $9 Billion gets the Congressional Medal of Freedom....

hmmmmmm


And just how many Iraqi's have starved due to this??

hmmmmmmm

An just how many Iraqi's have starved due to this??

hmmmmmmm

Millions and millions????

I know this kid that caught shrapnel in 9/11. He was standing near the towers when the plane hit and glass rained down on him.

London, during the IRA bombing campaign in the 70s. Frightening.

Yes (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_2527000/2527009.stm)

I lost two school friends when a Palestinian suicide bomber got on their bus while they were on holiday in Jerusalem.

Another friend lost an arm to an ETA bomb in Spain.

My Dad was held at gunpoint by UVF in Belfast, luckily we're not Catholic.

The numbers aren't in the millions, but they have accounted for over 100,000. Somehow I don't see where the UN sanctions or US bombs had anything to do with Saddam gassing civilians, torturing and killing those (and their families) opposed to his brutal regime, and the multitude of other atrocities he committed on his people. As for the UN sanctions, perhaps if the oil for food money had been used as it was intended, the people would have been better off and the infrastructure wouldn't have been such a mess. Of course, I'm sure they all preferred another palace to view to a bowl of rice.
The irony of the situation regarding the Kurds, is that the US actually helped by supplying Saddam with the materials to do the task. The US did not raise any objections when Iraq was gassing Iranians now did they?

Saddam had all the assistance from the west at his disposal and like a good puppet, he used them.

Thank God no. No terrorism in Finland :)

The irony of the situation regarding the Kurds, is that the US actually helped by supplying Saddam with the materials to do the task. The US did not raise any objections when Iraq was gassing Iranians now did they?

Saddam had all the assistance from the west at his disposal and like a good puppet, he used them.

Actually it is a moot point as to who did the gassing....was it the Iraqi's or Iranians?

It is known that both Iran and Iraq used chemical weapons in their eight-year war from September 1980 to August 1988. Most of Iraq's alleged assaults on the Kurds took place while this war was raging, although Human Rights Watch claims the attacks extended into September 1988.

Iraq has acknowledged using mustard gas against Iranian troops to overwhelm the human waves tactic used by Iranians who wanted to benefit from the fact that they outnumbered Iraqis, but has consistently denied using chemical weapons against civilians.

The only verified Kurdish civilian deaths from chemical weapons occurred in the Iraqi village of Halabja, near the Iran border, are several hundred people who died from gas poisoning in mid-March 1988.

Iran overran the village and its small Iraqi garrison on 15 March 1988. The gassing took place on 16 March and onwards; who is then responsible for the deaths - Iran or Iraq - and how large was the death toll knowing the Iranian army was in Halabja but never reported any deaths by chemicals?

The best evidence to answer this is a 1990 report by the Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College. It concluded that Iran, not Iraq, was the culprit in Halabja.

While the War College report acknowledges that Iraq used mustard gas during the Halabja hostilities, it notes that mustard gas is an incapacitating, rather than a killing agent, with a fatality rate of only 2%, so that it could not have killed the hundreds of known dead, much less the thousands of dead claimed by Human Rights Watch.

According to the War College reconstruction of events, Iran struck first taking control of the village. The Iraqis counter-attacked using mustard gas. The Iranians then attacked again, this time using a "blood agent" - cyanogens chloride or hydrogen cyanide - and re-took the town, which Iran then held for several months.

Having control of the village and its grisly dead, Iran blamed the gas deaths on the Iraqis, and the allegations of Iraqi genocide took root via a credulous international press and, a little later, cynical promotion of the allegations for political purposes by the US state department and Senate.

Stephen Pelletiere, who was the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq war, closely studied evidences of "genocide in Halabja" has described his group's findings:

"The great majority of the victims seen by reporters and other observers who attended the scene were blue in their extremities. That means that they were killed by a blood agent, probably either cyanogens chloride or hydrogen cyanide. Iraq never used and lacked any capacity to produce these chemicals. But the Iranians did deploy them. Therefore the Iranians killed the Kurds."

Pelletiere's report also said that international relief organisations that examined the Kurdish refugees in Turkey failed to discover any gassing victims.

After 15 years of support to the allegations of HRW, the CIA finally admitted in its report published in October 2003 that only mustard gas and a nerve agent was used by Iraq.

The CIA now seems to be fully supporting the US Army War College report of April 1990, as a cyanide-based blood agent that Iraq never had, and not mustard gas or a nerve agent, killed the Kurds who died at Halabja and which concludes that the Iranians perpetrated that attack as a media war tactic.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ECD352BE-6B8F-449F-8F97-C7AB0DC08A94.htm

Actually it is a moot point as to who did the gassing....was it the Iraqi's or Iranians?

Iran overran the village and its small Iraqi garrison on 15 March 1988. The gassing took place on 16 March and onwards; who is then responsible for the deaths - Iran or Iraq - and how large was the death toll knowing the Iranian army was in Halabja but never reported any deaths by chemicals?

The best evidence to answer this is a 1990 report by the Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College. It concluded that Iran, not Iraq, was the culprit in Halabja.

While the War College report acknowledges that Iraq used mustard gas during the Halabja hostilities, it notes that mustard gas is an incapacitating, rather than a killing agent, with a fatality rate of only 2%, so that it could not have killed the hundreds of known dead, much less the thousands of dead claimed by Human Rights Watch.

According to the War College reconstruction of events, Iran struck first taking control of the village. The Iraqis counter-attacked using mustard gas. The Iranians then attacked again, this time using a "blood agent" - cyanogens chloride or hydrogen cyanide - and re-took the town, which Iran then held for several months.

Having control of the village and its grisly dead, Iran blamed the gas deaths on the Iraqis, and the allegations of Iraqi genocide took root via a credulous international press and, a little later, cynical promotion of the allegations for political purposes by the US state department and Senate.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ECD352BE-6B8F-449F-8F97-C7AB0DC08A94.htm
Yes thanks for the post. I too had come across similar to this one and posted it. Since it is difficult to verify the veracity of either side of the story, I dropped the argument. However, there is clearly evidence that the deaths could be attributable to the Iranian forces.

The point is clear though that the US didn't make too much of this event while it was happening and only seemed to revive it to help support the reasons for removing Saddam from power. It all seems a little on the shady side to say the least.

Yes thanks for the post. I too had come across similar to this one and posted it. Since it is difficult to verify the veracity of either side of the story, I dropped the argument. However, there is clearly evidence that the deaths could be attributable to the Iranian forces.

The point is clear though that the US didn't make too much of this event while it was happening and only seemed to revive it to help support the reasons for removing Saddam from power. It all seems a little on the shady side to say the least.

No prob....what I find irritating is that when things are not black and white there those who say that it is clear cut. Then when things are clear cut there are those who say that is not black and white.

Thankfully, I, nor any one I care about has yet been killed by US bombs.

:mp5:

STAY ON TOPIC!

This thread isn't about the U.S. in Iraq or anything like that. It is about if you have been directly affected by a terrorist attack or not. Stay on topic, please.

No, I haven't.

Unless you count riding a bike in California...holy bujeebles, there is a lot of careless driving here, and I've had my front wheel smashed by a truck, yelled at by some jerk because I used the crosswalk and *gasp* made him stop...

-Asylum Nova

No, I haven't.

Unless you count riding a bike in California...holy bujeebles, there is a lot of careless driving here, and I've had my front wheel smashed by a truck, yelled at by some jerk because I used the crosswalk and *gasp* made him stop...

-Asylum Nova

:)

My god.

Why did we invade Iraq when California is the source of all evil!

I declare that we withdraw all troops from Iraq and send them to California to stop the terrorists!
I thought this wasn't about Iraq....please try to stay on topic? :)

I thought this wasn't about Iraq....please try to stay on topic? :)

It isn't about Iraq.

But I see your point ;).

I've never been directly affected. But it does suck having no bins at train stations in the UK as those cheeky Irish scamps used to drop bombs in them!

I've never been directly affected. But it does suck having no bins at train stations in the UK as those cheeky Irish scamps used to drop bombs in them!

Doesn't really compare to growing up accustomed to British squaddies aiming their SLRs at your head as they check you out through their scopes everytime you went into town though, does it?

Doesn't really compare to growing up accustomed to British squaddies aiming their SLRs at your head as they check you out through their scopes everytime you went into town though, does it?

Well put Bodies....and welcome back!

Well put Bodies....and welcome back!

I didn't know I'd been away.


I'll just say that I wasn't really trying to play oneupmanship with that post either: I have luckily never been hurt or had anyone I am especially close to hurt as a result of the troubles here, and for that I am very glad, but having the bins taken away doesn't really match up to what passes/passed as normal in the six counties.

I wasn't trying to mock what anyone's gone through in NI or anywhere else. Be fair, the topic is about how people have been affected themselves, it didn't specify how major it had to be. The bins thing isn't really a big deal but it's one of those things that's annoying and really shouldn't be necessary in a modern developed peaceful country, that was all I meant.

I could be a bit unlucky when it comes to terrorists, that or incredibly lucky depending upon how you look at it (I'm not dead yet, so I must be lucky, I reckon).

As a child I was twenty yards away from an IbRA (Irish bank Robbers Army) bomb blast when it went off in belfast, my mum (from Eire herself) and I were just coming out of a shop down the road when the street filled with glass, nails, bricks and smoke and we were temporarily deafened, luckily we were sheltered by the shop doorway and only suffered minor cuts and bruises. I heard several others on visits to belfast over the years, but only saw one more there and not so close that time.

My fathers base in Germany was attacked too (IRA again), my brother and I heard the bomb go off from a mile or 2 away, by the time we got there we were able to see loads of german pensioners being helped out of the building by soldiers. They'd stuck a bomb against the wall of the sergeants mess and set it to go off at the time when the local german pensioners group always used the building for their weekly dinner dance, didn't win them much in the way of german public support at the time. Sure they hit a British military installation, but if they'd read the notice board at the entrance to the base they'd have seen the announcement that the pensioners group always met there on that day of the week.

Was in Manchester when the Arndale centre (large shopping mall) got blown up by the IRA (again) and was in Morocco when Islamics (sorry never found out the group name) shot up a village that I was journeying to visit a friend from university in, arrived near the village to meet a police roadblock who told us virtually all the inhabitants had been murdered the night before. We met my friend later by chance, he'd taken his younger sister to hospital because of an infection and had been out of the village when the gunmen came. Was very relieved to find him alive, he was distraught though, him and his sister had survived and most of the rest of his friends were killed.

Seen the Turkish government terrorising the Kurds a lot when I was a bit younger too, witnessed primary school teachers being beaten in the playground by the police for being members of the PKK and were forced out of the area at gunpoint by the police when they saw we had cameras.

So I reckon that I've witnessed it directly a few times, still don't agree with it. However, nor do I agree with "the war on terror" approach either, concerted police actions yes, military invasions no!

I wasn't trying to mock what anyone's gone through in NI or anywhere else. Be fair, the topic is about how people have been affected themselves, it didn't specify how major it had to be. The bins thing isn't really a big deal but it's one of those things that's annoying and really shouldn't be necessary in a modern developed peaceful country, that was all I meant.

Yeah, I know - I wasn't trying to be harsh or play oneupmanship as I said.I guess, in the end, the point is that even know the UK may be modern and devceloped, but it isn't peaceful.

Personally, I think the only reason that the bins haven't been put back into the stations in Britain is down to money. It's just cheaper to not have them there now. Another of the convenient excuses of the war on terror approach to keeping your people in fear...

I knew several people killed on Pam Am 103.

No, thankfully!

Not personally, no.

Can anyone define "terrorist attack" for me please?

Yeah, I know - I wasn't trying to be harsh or play oneupmanship as I said.I guess, in the end, the point is that even know the UK may be modern and devceloped, but it isn't peaceful.

Peaceful is such a relative term anyway, some loon will always be trying to have a go at somebody or something.

Peaceful is such a relative term anyway, some loon will always be trying to have a go at somebody or something.

Indeed, but when the group under main discussion with respect to the UK are at best on 'temporary cessation of military activities' and their hardline splinter groups continue to operate, I think we can safely say that real peace hasn't been attained.

Long term, I think we're going to be stuck with the paramilitaries and their gangsterist shenanigans for a long time, even if an actual 'peace' is achieved, but I don't really classify that as terrorism.

Personally, I think the only reason that the bins haven't been put back into the stations in Britain is down to money. It's just cheaper to not have them there now. Another of the convenient excuses of the war on terror approach to keeping your people in fear...

How much would it cost to have somebody clearing litter from the stations instead of just emptying most of it from bins? I don't think money is the only factor. Imagine the outcry if they were replaced and then two weeks later the CIRA re-enacted Warrington again? Whatever politico or train operator made the decision would find their head on the chopping block.

When I go shopping in Manchester, it's much nicer since the IRA blew it up and it got rebuilt. The hippy shops i used to really like aren't there though. Does that count as being directly affected?

When I go shopping in Manchester, it's much nicer since the IRA blew it up and it got rebuilt.

True. And it is possible to say that since no one died (I think).

Long term, I think we're going to be stuck with the paramilitaries and their gangsterist shenanigans for a long time, even if an actual 'peace' is achieved, but I don't really classify that as terrorism.

I have a theory that the NI bank robbery was the IRA's pension scheme - Sinn Fein said "go on lads, get all the money you can get and then fuck off".

With NIPS blaming Sinn Fein publicly, and the money being worthless, I think the provos will be around a lot longer.

True. And it is possible to say that since no one died (I think).

Yep, they very kindly rang up Manchester and told it to scarper. I think it might have something to do with the massive Irish descended population. Don't think there was ever an IRA bomb in liverpool either.

How much would it cost to have somebody clearing litter from the stations instead of just emptying most of it from bins? I don't think money is the only factor. Imagine the outcry if they were replaced and then two weeks later the CIRA re-enacted Warrington again? Whatever politico or train operator made the decision would find their head on the chopping block.

They always had to have somebody sweeping up the litter from train stations and still do, now though, they don't have to have somebody go around and empty the bins too.

Yes, there would be an outcry if somebody put the bins back in place and some terrorist took advantage of the situation again, however there are still bins in place in lots of other crowded public spaces which they haven't been dropping bombs into for such a long time. Trouble is that by not picking ourselves up again and continuuing with our normal lives they win little victories like this, the bins should go back in place, if another campaign is started up, then consider removing them again.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your statement regarding gangsterish shenanigans, for most can see that that is what they are nowadays, it's just a shame that all sides suffer under their prescence.

Yep, they very kindly rang up Manchester and told it to scarper. I think it might have something to do with the massive Irish descended population. Don't think there was ever an IRA bomb in liverpool either.

Not strictly correct this, plenty of people got hurt.

try this link for a quick look: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_2527000/2527009.stm

London also has a massive Irish population, never stopped them attacking there either.

I live in Northern Ireland, so have been in 'bomb' situations several times. Neither myself nor anybody I'm close to was ever hurt, but it was difficult to avoid some sort of problem when the Troubles were ongoing. As you may imagine, none of it was pleasant even for someone who was not hurt. Which always made me wonder why it was seen by many outside this country as OK to fund and publicly support the IRA. (Not that I am saying the loyalist thugs were guiltless; they were/are complete scum. I am vaguely in support of Irish nationalism, so of course do not support these people. But they were not funded internationally, whereas the IRA, who were also scum, were. I don't care what their cause is/was - they're still killers).

I live in Northern Ireland, so have been in 'bomb' situations several times. Neither myself nor anybody I'm close to was ever hurt, but it was difficult to avoid some sort of problem when the Troubles were ongoing. As you may imagine, none of it was pleasant even for someone who was not hurt. Which always made me wonder why it was seen by many outside this country as OK to fund and publicly support the IRA. (Not that I am saying the loyalist thugs were guiltless; they were/are complete scum. I am vaguely in support of Irish nationalism, so of course do not support these people. But they were not funded internationally, whereas the IRA, who were also scum, were. I don't care what their cause is/was - they're still killers).

Yup, all of that Bush rhetoric about harbouring and funding terrorists being as bad as committing the acts yourself really didn't carry much weight to those who were used to seeing the pictures of the IRA fund raising drives in the USA.

Not strictly correct this, plenty of people got hurt.

try this link for a quick look: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_2527000/2527009.stm

London also has a massive Irish population, never stopped them attacking there either.

Hurt =/= killed.

Hurt =/= killed.

True, hurt is not killed, but in the situation that we were talking about, it doesn't make much of a difference to me. If a bomb only hurts people as opposed to killing them does that mean it is ok then?

...or are you just being pedantic?

I have a friend who was in Warrington when the IRA bombed it, and I was working in Manchester (Salford) when the IRA bombed the Arndale centre, although I wasn't there at the time.

Ohhh we are up to millions now are we? How many in the last 10 years not related to deaths due to UN sanctions, or US bombs?

Two wrongs do not make one right.

I think you missed the point. The point is that there would be many more civilian deaths if Sadaam were still in power.

I think you missed the point. The point is that there would be many more civilian deaths if Sadaam were still in power.
or how about this for a change...dont drag it off topic

I have.

It was a peacefull, average day in Islamabad, Pakistan. I was hanging out with my friends, playing around, and then BOOM! A huge explosion was heard across the area. Not even 300 meters away, the church near the embassy was being assaulted by terrorists. One second they were there, throwing grenades, and then they were out. As we rushed to go help, sirens wirred across the area. The cries of the people were heard everywhere. Although the adults wouldn't let us get very far, near by dazed people were walking out. As I looked to see if my friends(who went to the church) were OK, I saw something horrible. One of my friends mother was dead. According to the reports, she and her older daughter had jumped on the grenade to defend my friend, Zach Green. They both died.

So while I see that attacks carried out by the Americans may be bad, I know firsthand that they are not as horrible as those attacks, and that those terrorists deserve what they are getting.

March 17, 2002 (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/03/17/pakistan.church.0900/index.html)

Thats sad. When will the violence stop?

I work in NYC, near Grand Central Terminal. Since 9.11, you always see soldiers and police with sidearms and gas masks. Sometime they also have dogs and carry rifles (I'm guessing on "high alert" days).