NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: This article appeared in Military.com at http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_FutureWar,,00.html?ESRC=soldiertech.nl

The article outlines some possible future warrior scenarios. Please read and discuss what you think! :)


FUTURE WARFARE: Tomorrow's Combat Soldier

Tomorrow's combat soldier may look more like a medieval knight than a warrior of the 20th century. Like his ancient counterpart, he will wear close-fitting body armor that will offer him unparalleled protection from head-to-toe. But that is where the similarities end.

The armor of the 21st century knight will have a micro-climate control system embedded in it that will circulate either air or water to enable future soldiers to function comfortably in conditions between zero and one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit. (Image: U.S. Army Developmental Test Command)

By Antulio J. Echevarria II
Armchair General Magazine

Explosions rocked the rubbled streets of the sprawling cityscape. The sky lit up in a bright ball of flame as a 152 mm shell detonated against the third floor of a twenty-story building. The building was of pre-millennium construction, and consisted of steel-reinforced concrete and glass.

Sergeant Christie crouched with his back against the cold, concrete wall of the structure that had just been hit. Another soldier, a medic named Chavez, took cover next to Christie.

"Incoming fire, move fifty meters southwest," a computer voice in Christie's helmet warned.

Sergeant Christie immediately grabbed the other soldier by the arm. The two men bounded across the street and inside an abandoned concrete parking garage in an amazing five seconds. A few seconds later, an avalanche of enemy artillery fire pounded the ground where they had stood only moments before.

"I can't afford to lose you," Christie chided as the two soldiers knelt behind a smashed truck and caught their breath "You're the only medic for miles."

The medic offered a wide grin. "Thanks! And God bless the guys who designed these exoskeleton suits."

"I still marvel at technology," Sergeant Christie said with a wry smile. "Humans aren't the swiftest creatures on Earth, but with this exoskeleton we are a fast as cheetahs. It's a far cry from anything soldiers were equipped with in the 20th Century, eh?" [The battle narrative in this story was adapted from Battleshock, The War in 2022, a new novel by John Antal.]

Tomorrow's combat soldier, as described in the short story above, may look more like a medieval knight than a warrior of the 20th century. Like his ancient counterpart, the warrior of the future will wear close-fitting body armor that will offer him unparalleled protection from head-to-toe. But that is where the similarities end. Unlike the knight of old, this body armor, sometimes referred to as an exoskeleton, will be made of a special lightweight material that will allow the soldier to move about with tremendous flexibility while at the same time providing his bones and muscles greater support than if the suit were made of metal. The armor of the 21st century knight will have a micro-climate control system embedded in it that will circulate either air or water to enable future soldiers to function comfortably in conditions between zero and one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit.

Artificial Muscles: Electroactive polymers will be able to act like muscle fiber, enabling a wounded soldier to have enough mobility to continue fighting or return to safety on his own.

The uniform will also have hundreds of tiny built-in sensors (Nanosensors) that will allow soldiers and commanders to check core body temperatures, hydration levels, sleep status, and other critical physiological information. Nanosensors inside the helmet will, for example, monitor a soldier's breath for increased nitric oxide, which is a sign of stress. Not only will combat leaders know at a glance when their soldiers are under too much stress, or require more water or sleep, they will also know exactly how much they need to restore them to peak efficiency. More importantly, when soldiers are wounded, their suits will transmit valuable information concerning the nature of the wounds, how critical those wounds are, and what kinds of treatment or medical attention they need and how soon. In another decade or so, the soldier's uniform will have the capability to morph into a splint or an artificial muscle to enable him to continue fighting or return to safety for medical attention.

"You sure you're okay?" Sergeant Christie asked.

Chavez nodded.

"Let me check your biodata just to make sure." Sergeant Christie glanced at the watch-like device on Chavez's wrist. "Looks okay. You're just a little low on water. By the way, did you notice … our suits have already changed colors?"

"Yeah, it's amazing technology," Chavez said as a plastic tube in his helmet offered him an opportunity to take a quick sip of enhanced fluid. "It's not like the old days when we wore only one camouflage pattern at a time."

Christie nodded. "Okay, let's go."

The two soldiers bounded from the bombed-out parking garage into a city park. Their suits quickly adapted to the new, tree-background environment as soon as they left the concrete gray tones of city structures.

As Sergeant Christie noted, the fabric of tomorrow's uniform will function like the skin of a chameleon, able to change color in order to blend with its surroundings. It will also have special characteristics that will enable it to repel water and to protect against certain chemical and biological agents. It may even include certain kinds of "friendly" biological agents (biocides) that would automatically repair rips and tears in the uniform and that would also consume specific "hostile" biological agents such as small pox, anthrax, plague, and Ecoli.

"My heads-up display shows that the objective is five kilometers, straight ahead," Christie reported. "My display depicts that the route is clear of enemy from here to there."

Whereas the medieval knight had his field of vision drastically reduced whenever he lowered his visor, the 21st century warrior will have unprecedented awareness of what is going on in his immediate vicinity and well beyond. His close-fitting headgear, known as the Modular Integrated Communications Helmet, or MICH, will have a visor with a heads-up display similar to those used by combat pilots. By touching a few buttons, tomorrow's soldier will be able to view video and thermal imaging, global-positioning data, maps, tactical reports, and ammunition status. His head's-up display will show him the positions and movements of his comrades, and in many cases those of the enemy as well, in daylight or at night.

The Modular Integrated Communications Helmets will have see-through, heads-up displays similar to those found in the cockpits of modern-day combat aircraft, and will have video, thermal, and map displays.

MICH will also have microprocessors and embedded antennae that can provide computer data and radio communications compatible with more than fifty types of radio systems. He will be able to call up field manuals for quick reference and have instant access to classified Web sites. High-and-low-noise headsets and microphones located along the exterior of the helmet will enhance the ability of tomorrow's knight to hear what he needs to hear, blocking out the unwanted din of battle so that he can better receive the commands of his leaders. The MICH and its embedded electronics will be completely waterproof and submersible.

"There it is!" Sergeant Christie exclaimed. "Our objective is just ahead, just on the other side of this river."

"That's a wide, muddy river and we'll have to swim against the current," Chavez remarked.

"No problem!" Christie answered. "In an exoskeleton suit even my grandmother could swim this creek. You go first and I'll cover you."

Chavez nodded, checked his gear, and then plunged into the deep, swift-running current. His suit instantly changed color to match the chocolate-brown mud toned hues of the river. Almost invisible to the unaided eye, Chavez swam carrying his heavy pack and smart rifle. The micro-machines of his exoskeleton combat suit magnified his human strength and he quickly swam against the powerful current to the opposite bank of the river.

Chavez's suit glistened slightly with an electro-magnetic shimmer as he moved out of the water and took up a firing position on the shoreline.

"Okay, Sarge, your turn," Chavez whispered into his helmet transmitter. "Far bank secure. No enemy indicated on my heads-up display."

Sergeant Christie heard Chavez's voice within his MICH, "On the way!"

Most of the technology needed to manufacture the body armor, exoskeleton, and helmet of tomorrow's combat soldier is in the not-so-distant future; not ten or twenty years away, but merely five or six years from now. The U.S. Army's Soldier Center at Natick, Massachusetts, has been working on a new "Land Warrior" system for several years. Several prototypes are already under development. Military leaders want to have the first versions of the new combat ensemble fielded by 2008, a challenging goal. Other, more sophisticated versions of "Land Warrior-like" systems, like the ones described in this story, will be developed by 2015.

Warfare is evolving and you can be on the front lines of change by following the development of new warfighting concepts in the next edition of the Armchair General's Future Warrior. I look forward to being your guide. Join Sergeant Christie in subsequent articles as he demonstrates the weapons, vehicles, remote-controlled robots, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), and other systems now under development.

The battle narrative in this story was adapted from Battleshock, the War in 2022, a new novel by John Antal.

Sorry to say this, but there isn't a country in the world that would entrust soldiers with something that expensive.

You mean like a multi-million dollar aircraft or tank?

Sorry to say this, but there isn't a country in the world that would entrust soldiers with something that expensive.

I suspect you underestimate how expensive most military equipment used by American soldiers is right now. I was a mechanized infantry company commander in Vietnam and the total value of the company's equiment at that time was well over $11 million US.

I suspect you underestimate how expensive most military equipment used by American soldiers is right now. I was a mechanized infantry company commander in Vietnam and the total value of the company's equiment at that time was well over $11 million US.WOW...11 millions for what?

He did say mechanized. So I'll go with Tanks, transports and Helicopters.

Sounds like they're suiting up, Starship Troopers style...

WOW...11 millions for what?

!2 Armored Personnel Carriers, crew-served and individual weapons, night-vision gear, ammunition, jeeps, trucks, and assorted tents, soldier equipment, etc. :)

How did Hugo Chavez get into the story? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Sounds like they're suiting up, Starship Troopers style...
I like the last scene or so ;)

Soldiers have already been compared to Knights namely German army in the Panzer IV in France.
Expense wise they are dead on.
I dont like the idea it makes war once again only fun for the rich nations.
Come on how can North Korea compete with that :(

Frankly eutrusca, by the time the suit gets to that point I imagine that the soldier will more than likely be plugged into it from a nice air-conditioned office in Florida or some such.....

Wars would be even easier to sell to the public if all they had to worry about was losing equipment instead of men and women.

Sounds like they're suiting up, Starship Troopers style...
Ever read the book "Armor"? By John Steakley?
Another good future-combat book.

The money for R&D for that sort of thing would leave any nation that designed it penniless to produce it on a large scale.

Not necessarily. It will take a LOOOONG time, but eventually I don't doubt the US will make it.

The money for R&D for that sort of thing would leave any nation that designed it penniless to produce it on a large scale.
Not necessarily. It will take a LOOOONG time, but eventually I don't doubt the US will make it.

Wrong, both of you. The future is now. The French version, the Fantassin à Équipements et Liaisons Intégrés, or FELIN, is set to be issued over 3 years 2007. (And I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that there may have been some issued last year.)
http://www.sagem.com/en/communiques-en/cp-2004-en.htm#mars04
http://www.defense-update.com/products/f/felin.htm

The UK's FIST (Future Integrated Soldier Technology) is expected to be ready in 2009.
http://www.battle-technology.com/this_issue04.html

Sorry to say this, but there isn't a country in the world that would entrust soldiers with something that expensive.

Wrong. The military already trusts it's personnel with multi-billion dollar equipment (consider the price tag of a stealth bomber). Or, if you want to stick to your basic B11 grunt, an M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank will run you 4-5 million dollars. Why wouldn't they trust a soldier with a peice of gear that runs 30-50,000 dollars?
"Each infantryman will get a set of FELIN gear worth about $33,000. (http://strategypage.com/search.asp?target=c:\inetpub\strategypageroot\fyeo\howtomakewar\htinf\docs04\20041028.htm&search=felin)


I suspect you underestimate how expensive most military equipment used by American soldiers is right now. I was a mechanized infantry company commander in Vietnam and the total value of the company's equiment at that time was well over $11 million US.

And that was 35+ years ago.

WOW...11 millions for what?

Think that's expensive? That wouldn't start to buy an armored platoon.

Frankly eutrusca, by the time the suit gets to that point I imagine that the soldier will more than likely be plugged into it from a nice air-conditioned office in Florida or some such.....

Wars would be even easier to sell to the public if all they had to worry about was losing equipment instead of men and women.

As long as there are people involved, there will always be a need for boots on the ground.

Frankly eutrusca, by the time the suit gets to that point I imagine that the soldier will more than likely be plugged into it from a nice air-conditioned office in Florida or some such.....

Wars would be even easier to sell to the public if all they had to worry about was losing equipment instead of men and women.

Although this technology is cool, no amount of computerized intergration will compinsate for actually being there and being able to react. Also, what if the network goes down because of some small unforseen reason?

I say good on the military if they can develop this. Couldn't help but think it looks awfully similar to the marine armor in HALO (maybe I just play too much video games :D).

Wrong, both of you. The future is now. The military already trusts it's personnel with multi-billion dollar equipment (consider the price tag of a stealth bomber). Or, if you want to stick to your basic B11 grunt, an M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank will run you 4-5 million dollars. Why wouldn't they trust a soldier with a peice of gear that runs 30-50,000 dollars?

And that was 35+ years ago.

Yup! :)

With that much technology and costs, probably by then, sending in robots would be more viable option. :p At least nobody gets killed.

My friends have been saying for years that remote-control is the next step in warfare, and they've always said it'd be like virtual reality, with a helmet and a suit and all that. i've always disagreed. i can much more easily imagine a marine infantry unit filing into a room in basic with several monitor banks, looking for their suits and helmets, only to have the Lieutenants pass out ps2 and x-box controllers. "i trust you know how to hande these, recruits..."

With that much technology and costs, probably by then, sending in robots would be more viable option. :p At least nobody gets killed.

By the time you design, build, arm and deploy a robot, it's way, way more expensive than teaching John Doe, the kid down the block who scored a 15 ASVAB to shoot a gun and put him in an apc along with a bunch of other kids and some grownups to look after them.

Perhaps i've missed out on something here, buy why don't we put our money, time and effort into trying to coexist peacefully then finding ways to kill more people?

Even the tactics of terrorists make large, expensive armies virtually useless, as the hide in small groups across many nations.

To make the world a safer place requires the richer nations of the west to help the poorer nations of the world and remove the 'need' for terrorism, not building more and more weapons.

"I still marvel at technology," Sergeant Christie said with a wry smile. "Humans aren't the swiftest creatures on Earth, but with this exoskeleton we are a fast as cheetahs. It's a far cry from anything soldiers were equipped with in the 20th Century, eh?" [The battle narrative in this story was adapted from Battleshock, The War in 2022, a new novel by John Antal.]



Listen to these soldiers! They sound like advertisement trailer actors!

Under heavy fire, I really doubt that soldiers would be talking like that.

Perhaps i've missed out on something here, buy why don't we put our money, time and effort into trying to coexist peacefully then finding ways to kill more people?

Even the tactics of terrorists make large, expensive armies virtually useless, as the hide in small groups across many nations.

To make the world a safer place requires the richer nations of the west to help the poorer nations of the world and remove the 'need' for terrorism, not building more and more weapons.

Yep that would be the smart thing and in many cases the rich countries wouldn't need to help the poorer just stop workning against them. For example stop their own tariffs and stop sending fancy weapon to them. But sadly that not how the world work. Look at USA that spend 15 billion dollars on foreign aid per year but over 150 billion dollar on "liberating" Iraq and I think the totalyear budget for the military in the USA is 400 billion dollar. And even my country Sweden that not been in war fore 200 years and that is for solidarity with the world spends 3 billion dollar on foriegn aid while spending 6 billion dollar on the military.:(

My friends have been saying for years that remote-control is the next step in warfare, and they've always said it'd be like virtual reality, with a helmet and a suit and all that. i've always disagreed. i can much more easily imagine a marine infantry unit filing into a room in basic with several monitor banks, looking for their suits and helmets, only to have the Lieutenants pass out ps2 and x-box controllers. "i trust you know how to hande these, recruits..."


Actually they already do. X-box is being used as a training tool now.

Perhaps i've missed out on something here, buy why don't we put our money, time and effort into trying to coexist peacefully then finding ways to kill more people?

Even the tactics of terrorists make large, expensive armies virtually useless, as the hide in small groups across many nations.

To make the world a safer place requires the richer nations of the west to help the poorer nations of the world and remove the 'need' for terrorism, not building more and more weapons.

Nice sentiment. Unrealistic and naive, but nice.

Listen to these soldiers! They sound like advertisement trailer actors!

Under heavy fire, I really doubt that soldiers would be talking like that.

Absolutely! Pretty bad dialogue.

I suppose, in 20 years someone has the resources necessary to produce such stuff.

Oil will be gone in about 20 years (not if you count the current demand, but the current annual demand growth). Or let it be 25 years.

So, what technical advances have been made within the last 25 years in regard to making steel? Still use the same amount of energy or much less? Is the photovoltaic on the roof of the factory able to provide the energy?

And after all oil was burned in the SUVs and tanks and fighter jets, is there something left to produce plastics?

Shouldn't we wait until we can give the guys we have now the armor that's available now before we go window shopping?

I suppose, in 20 years someone has the resources necessary to produce such stuff.

Oil will be gone in about 20 years (not if you count the current demand, but the current annual demand growth). Or let it be 25 years.

So, what technical advances have been made within the last 25 years in regard to making steel? Still use the same amount of energy or much less? Is the photovoltaic on the roof of the factory able to provide the energy?

And after all oil was burned in the SUVs and tanks and fighter jets, is there something left to produce plastics?
You can make oil and plastics from coal, and nuclear power will still be there, as will steel supplies. I dont see your point.

I suppose, in 20 years someone has the resources necessary to produce such stuff.

Oil will be gone in about 20 years (not if you count the current demand, but the current annual demand growth). Or let it be 25 years.

The "experts have been screaming the same exactly Chicken Little line for many years.

It's BS based on several points:

As things stand, at current consuption levels (29 bil bbs/year), we have 35-70 years at the current reserve levels, depending on whose figures you trust.
(the DOE says 1016.8 billion bbs, the USGS says 2272.5 billion+ bbs http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/oil/2worldoil.mideast.html)

You also seem to assume that reserves are static they are being expanded. See below:

1926 -- Federal Oil Conservation Board estimates 4.5 billion barrels remain.

1932 -- Federal Oil Conservation Board estimates 10 billion barrels of oil remain.

1944 -- Petroleum Administrator for War estimates 20 billion barrelsof oil remain.

1950 -- American Petroleum Institute says world oil reserves are at 100 billion barrels.

1980 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 648 billion barrels

1993 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 999 billion barrels

2000 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 1016 billion barrels.

http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/oil/5oilreservehistory.html


So, what technical advances have been made within the last 25 years in regard to making steel? Still use the same amount of energy or much less? Is the photovoltaic on the roof of the factory able to provide the energy?

Higher efficeincy, greater use of alternate energy. (When will the greenies realise that nuclear power really is the answer they want? When real world economics smacks them upside the head!)

And after all oil was burned in the SUVs and tanks and fighter jets, is there something left to produce plastics?

For vehicular fuels, HFCs and HFC Hybrids are already being used.
As for non-petrol plastic feedstock materials, organics are standing in the wings waiting to take over from petroleum: http://www.eere.energy.gov/RE/bio_chemicals.html

Shouldn't we wait until we can give the guys we have now the armor that's available now before we go window shopping?

The current problem with lack of body armor is one of pure logistics.
Bush I and Clinton screwed the pooch by downsizing the military for domestic gain, when it was clear the world was becoming more dangerous. (However, this was due more to nearsightedness on the part of most of the US population who swallowed the peacedividend BS hook, line, and sinker, without much critical assesment of what the collapse of the USSR meant for our security.)
Rummy double screwed the troops when he bought into the ideas of the "jedi knight" faction of the military over the "heavy metal" faction.
Because the Jedi Knight faction advocates super tech over boots on the ground, the infantry (as usual, but surprisingly, not as bad as has been the case in the past) got the dirty end of the stick.

However, all this has little to do with current R&D.
As I posted above, France has their own models of this under production contract.

The current problem with lack of body armor is one of pure logistics.
Bush I and Clinton screwed the pooch by downsizing the military for domestic gain, when it was clear the world was becoming more dangerous. (However, this was due more to nearsightedness on the part of most of the US population who swallowed the peacedividend BS hook, line, and sinker, without much critical assesment of what the collapse of the USSR meant for our security.)
Rummy double screwed the troops when he bought into the ideas of the "jedi knight" faction of the military over the "heavy metal" faction.
Because the Jedi Knight faction advocates super tech over boots on the ground, the infantry (as usual, but surprisingly, not as bad as has been the case in the past) got the dirty end of the stick.

However, all this has little to do with current R&D.
As I posted above, France has their own models of this under production contract.
It always comes down to logistics. Just hard to grasp a world where 'all the soldiers will have super-armor-computer whiz bang when in the here and now we can't seem to get them a metal plate. If those three men could so throw things out of whack that we can't get a metal plate, well....

It always comes down to logistics. Just hard to grasp a world where 'all the soldiers will have super-armor-computer whiz bang when in the here and now we can't seem to get them a metal plate. If those three men could so throw things out of whack that we can't get a metal plate, well....

Well take the example of the assault rifle. 100 years ago it would have been absolutely ludicrous to suggest that every soldier should have a fully automatic weapon. 80 years ago they were developming such weapons. 60 years ago, a certain country tried to impliment the policy, but the Stg 44 was a bit beyond the Third Reich's capacity. Now, they are standard.

The point is that tech moves on. The day of these super-armor-computer whiz bang suits is really-o truelly-o here.

Impressive technology. I don't doubt it will be developed in the next few decades. Now, if we could just put it to something useful, like mining, construction, harvesting, space exploration. Which we probably will, eventually. It's still sad that the main driver for technology is war.

Impressive technology. I don't doubt it will be developed in the next few decades.

Like 2006-2010? See multiple links above. To repeat myself for the third or fourth time, it's here now. Not decades from now. NOW. Read what I posted.

Now, if we could just put it to something useful, like mining, construction, harvesting, space exploration. Which we probably will, eventually. It's still sad that the main driver for technology is war.

:confused:

Not hardly. Some technologies shed off military advances. Many more shed off the space program. But most advances still come from the engines of capitalism.

Like 2006-2010? See multiple links above. To repeat myself for the third or fourth time, it's here now. Not decades from now. NOW. Read what I posted.

Yes, but it still has to become cheap enough and safe enough to be put on the ground. That takes some time. And you still have to train your troops in their use, run a few exercises with them, etc.


Not hardly. Some technologies shed off military advances. Many more shed off the space program. But most advances still come from the engines of capitalism.
Competition, which capitalism uses in abundance, granted. But the need for invention comes before the invention itself, not the other way around. And we still turn our heads to war to find needs. Other needs then look into military advances to adapt some technologies. Of course, the military sometimes takes from other industries, but it's more common the other way around.

Yes, but it still has to become cheap enough and safe enough to be put on the ground. That takes some time. And you still have to train your troops in their use, run a few exercises with them, etc.

:rolleyes: Read my previous posts again. It's not a matter of it becoming cheap and safe enough. It's already been through that. The French are set to issue it next year. Yes, there are issues of training, but it is not a matter of decade, but of months.

Competition, which capitalism uses in abundance, granted. But the need for invention comes before the invention itself, not the other way around. And we still turn our heads to war to find needs. Other needs then look into military advances to adapt some technologies. Of course, the military sometimes takes from other industries, but it's more common the other way around.

Not hardly. Name one invention from military necessity, and I'll name you ten from civilian ingenuity.

:rolleyes: Read my previous posts again. It's not a matter of it becoming cheap and safe enough. It's already been through that. The French are set to issue it next year. Yes, there are issues of training, but it is not a matter of decade, but of months.

All of the technologies in the article?


Not hardly. Name one invention from military necessity, and I'll name you ten from civilian ingenuity.
OK. Submarines, steel ships, steel itself, explosives, rockets, GPS, canned food, electronic computers, the Internet, the saddle. I tried to stay away from inventions with purely military applications, like cannons and bombs.

It's your turn to name 100 inventions. No doubt you can find them, especially in the last century it has been the markets that have driven invention, but the military is a very big market also. Some inventions that started as purely civilians were immensely advanced by the military, like aviation.

BTW, what's the point of our debate? Not that I'm not enjoying it, just would like to know if there's a point.

It always comes down to logistics. Just hard to grasp a world where 'all the soldiers will have super-armor-computer whiz bang when in the here and now we can't seem to get them a metal plate. If those three men could so throw things out of whack that we can't get a metal plate, well....

All combat units in Iraq had both body armor and vehicle armor. What this rumor refers to is some of the National Guard and Combat Service Support troops who were rotated to Iraq without vehicle armor to protect them from IEDs ( Improvised Explosive Devices ). As I've been given to understand, almost all of these troops now have up-armored vehicles.

All of the technologies in the article?

OK. Submarines, steel ships, steel itself, explosives, rockets, GPS, canned food, electronic computers, the Internet, the saddle. I tried to stay away from inventions with purely military applications, like cannons and bombs.

It's your turn to name 100 inventions. No doubt you can find them, especially in the last century it has been the markets that have driven invention, but the military is a very big market also. Some inventions that started as purely civilians were immensely advanced by the military, like aviation.

BTW, what's the point of our debate? Not that I'm not enjoying it, just would like to know if there's a point.

Actually, as far as I know, many of our current innovative technologies are byproducts of the space program.

I recall seeing somthing in a newspaper article a few years back

Right-o, time to kill me some Covenant.

;)

Actually, as far as I know, many of our current innovative technologies are byproducts of the space program.
Yep, although not as much as when there was a space race to the Moon. And somehow I think that if it wasn't for the connection with the military there would be much less spent on space exploration. Let's hope that private industry finds a very good reason soon to invest in that.

All of the technologies in the article?

Very close to it.



I love it when someone calls my exagerations - challenge! :)

(hope yopu don't mind a judiciodus stretch - even if it's just.)

Submarines:
Deep Sea Diving
Sightseeing
SCUBA gear
Pure Geological Research
Pure Biological Research
Pure Oceanographic Research
Commercial Fisheries
Hydrogen Fuel Cells
Advanced Batteries
Remote/Tele-op gear

Steel Ships:
Fulton's steam ships
Paddlewheelers
Efficient cargo ships
"safe" ocean liners
"safe" oil transportation

(as you say, I could come up with at least all the requeset inventions. Need we go further?)

[QUOTE]BTW, what's the point of our debate? Not that I'm not enjoying it, just would like to know if there's a point.

Point? Uhmmm... I'm sure there was something there... ;)

Not everything is driven by the military.
Commercial drives outweigh military, especially for applications.

Beyond that, the "super-duper high tech" military suits described in the article are not far-future tech, but next year's tech.

All combat units in Iraq had both body armor and vehicle armor. What this rumor refers to is some of the National Guard and Combat Service Support troops who were rotated to Iraq without vehicle armor to protect them from IEDs ( Improvised Explosive Devices ). As I've been given to understand, almost all of these troops now have up-armored vehicles.

It's a slow institutional response to a problem that shouldn't have existed at all. If Rummy hadn't been so enraptured of the jedi crowd, needed heavy armor (Gavins and Bradleys) would have been available earlier.

"I can't answer for the record why we started this war with protective vests that were in short supply," Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of the U.S. Central Command.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000601.html

Yep, although not as much as when there was a space race to the Moon. And somehow I think that if it wasn't for the connection with the military there would be much less spent on space exploration. Let's hope that private industry finds a very good reason soon to invest in that.

Close. Hopefully the recent NASA"difficulties" and the X-prize successes will get the private sector off their asses!

Yep, although not as much as when there was a space race to the Moon. And somehow I think that if it wasn't for the connection with the military there would be much less spent on space exploration. Let's hope that private industry finds a very good reason soon to invest in that.
I totally agree! Space is where the human race will spend the future, provided we don't figure out some way to exterminate ourselves or send the entire planet back to the stone age!

I have high hopes for the future of space "tourism." Someone is offering a million-dollar prize ( USD ) for the first privately financed and owned spacecraft to go into orbit and return to Earth. Last I heard, there were at least two organizations vying for this prize. The real prize, however, will be a viable privately owned spacecraft and the fame that will come with it. :)

:rolleyes: Read my previous posts again. It's not a matter of it becoming cheap and safe enough. It's already been through that. The French are set to issue it next year. Yes, there are issues of training, but it is not a matter of decade, but of months.


Yeah. The Germans already put their "Infanterist der Zukunft" - their very own Landwarrior Variant - to active use in 2004 after a very extended experiment and R&D phase. Quite impressive, if you conisder they started last to develop such equipment.

Though thay made the (IMHO smart) move NOT to overload each trooper with tons of gear, but to give every individual solider a base unit and the more advanced gear is distributed among their smallest tactical unit (10 soldiers, called a "Grupp" [group]).

Try googling for more infos, there are plenty of them out there. Try "IDZ" or "Infanterist der Zukunft".

There are very few problems that cannot be solved with either a quad-fifty, or 1,000 feet of detcord and 100 lbs of C-4! :D

I totally agree! Space is where the human race will spend the future, provided we don't figure out some way to exterminate ourselves or send the entire planet back to the stone age!

I have high hopes for the future of space "tourism." Someone is offering a million-dollar prize ( USD ) for the first privately financed and owned spacecraft to go into orbit and return to Earth. Last I heard, there were at least two organizations vying for this prize. The real prize, however, will be a viable privately owned spacecraft and the fame that will come with it. :)

The Ansari-X Prize (10 million dollars)! http://www.xprize.org/
There were a lot more than 2 team in competiotion.
It was awarded last year to American Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team at the St. Louis Science Center for their successful suborbital space flights Sept. 29 and Oct. 4.
http://www.xprize.org/press_room/press_releases/press.php?articleID=159


(Discusssions like this make me worry about the so-called singularity. I've always said it would never come about. But if people act like this, it may well bite the vast populace in their collective butts!)

There are very few problems that cannot be solved with either a quad-fifty, or 1,000 feet of detcord and 100 lbs of C-4! :D

Very true! (Although there are lots of problems for which large explosions are not the best solutions. I absolutely can solve poverty via a quad-fifty and large amounts of C-4, but most people would have serious moral qualms with that solution... However, I have yet to see anyone solve Feremat's lost solution with either a quad-fifty. any amount of detcord, or unlimited amouts of C-4. ;))

Yeah. The Germans already put their "Infanterist der Zukunft" - their very own Landwarrior Variant - to active use in 2004 after a very extended experiment and R&D phase. Quite impressive, if you conisder they started last to develop such equipment.

Though thay made the (IMHO smart) move NOT to overload each trooper with tons of gear, but to give every individual solider a base unit and the more advanced gear is distributed among their smallest tactical unit (10 soldiers, called a "Grupp" [group]).

Try googling for more infos, there are plenty of them out there. Try "IDZ" or "Infanterist der Zukunft".

Managed to miss that one. That may very well have been what I was thinking of when I said:
And I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that there may have been some issued last year.

:D

Thanks!!

The Ansari-X Prize (10 million dollars)!
There were a lot more than 2 teams in competiotion.
It was awarded last year to American Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team at the St. Louis Science Center for their successful suborbital space flights Sept. 29 and Oct. 4.

(Discusssions like this make me worry about the so-called singularity. I've always said it would never come about. But if people act like this, it may well bite the vast populace in their collective butts!)

Whoops! I need to keep up with current events better! :(

Um ... "singularity?" Isn't that the center of a black hole? Hmmm. :confused:

Very true! (Although there are lots of problems for which large explosions are not the best solutions. I absolutely can solve poverty via a quad-fifty and large amounts of C-4, but most people would have serious moral qualms with that solution... However, I have yet to see anyone solve Feremat's lost solution with either a quad-fifty. any amount of detcord, or unlimited amouts of C-4. ;))

Oh, I forgot to mention that I found that last year. :D

"Moral qualms?" Whut dat? ;)

Me ... I just love to kill people and break things. Blowing things up is my forte! :D

Wrong, both of you. The future is now. The French version, the Fantassin à Équipements et Liaisons Intégrés, or FELIN, is set to be issued over 3 years 2007. (And I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that there may have been some issued last year.)
http://www.sagem.com/en/communiques-en/cp-2004-en.htm#mars04
http://www.defense-update.com/products/f/felin.htm

The UK's FIST (Future Integrated Soldier Technology) is expected to be ready in 2009.
http://www.battle-technology.com/this_issue04.html



Wrong. The military already trusts it's personnel with multi-billion dollar equipment (consider the price tag of a stealth bomber). Or, if you want to stick to your basic B11 grunt, an M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank will run you 4-5 million dollars. Why wouldn't they trust a soldier with a peice of gear that runs 30-50,000 dollars?
"Each infantryman will get a set of FELIN gear worth about $33,000. (http://strategypage.com/search.asp?target=c:\inetpub\strategypageroot\fyeo\howtomakewar\htinf\docs04\20041028.htm&search=felin)




And that was 35+ years ago.


That stuff is just kevlar suits it looks like...

The frist link was talking about the exoskeleton covering, troops would wear, which would allow a soldier to carry 300 pounds of gear and other nasty stuff...

Um ... "singularity?" Isn't that the center of a black hole? Hmmm. :confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
He's using it in a different sense of the word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
He's using it in a different sense of the word.
Hmmm! Never heard it used in that sense before, although it sounds right.

I've always been fascinated by the rather glaring disparity between advances in technology and the lack thereof in the field of human development. Seems we still have too much of the "reptilian brain" in us. This is one reason for many of my beliefs, such as the necessity of spreading democracy, my opposition to gun control, etc.

That stuff is just kevlar suits it looks like...

The frist link was talking about the exoskeleton covering, troops would wear, which would allow a soldier to carry 300 pounds of gear and other nasty stuff...

It's more than just that:

FELIN Infantry Combat Suite (http://www.defense-update.com/products/f/felin.htm)
FELIN systems will comprise a modified weapon system, integral sensors, wearable computer, communications and display systems, advanced uniform, protection and headgear and team allocated equipment such as ODIN mini-UAV, robotic mule and commander's specific equipment. The weight of the entire FELIN system will be 24 kg, including weaponry, energy, ammunition, water and food.

I absolutely can solve poverty via a quad-fifty and large amounts of C-4, but most people would have serious moral qualms with that solution...

"Moral qualms?" Whut dat?

:D Well, there's always the Dead Kennedy's "application" of that idea: http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/killthepoor.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
He's using it in a different sense of the word.

A cookie for Neo-Anarchists. :D

Well, that ahem, storticle sucked. I could write better in my sleep.