NationStates Jolt Archive


Global Unity Cannot be Achieved

Derscon
12-02-2005, 23:15
Face it, everyone knows it, but they don't want to admit it.

People in the beginning of time united out of necessity -- they would die had they not united. It also helped there weren't that many people per se around.

As civilizations started to occur, competition developed. Wars happened, and humans were divided finally -- never to be fully reuntied again.

Many, many Empires spewed forth from the bowels of the world. They united the "civilized" areas. How? By military force. This went to show, though, that, while politically united, the conquerors were superior. This is not unification by any means. After all, the Empires fell anyways to another group of humans.

Vicious cycle, isn't it?

Anyways....

After WWII, the world was divided in to four majour sectors:

West (Capitalism and Freedom)
East (Communism and oppression)
Middle East (Islamic Oppression and Isreal)
Far East (Wasteland-turned Communist Oppression, along with East)

Everyone was united by politics, which also happened to be by region. Eventually, of course, the Far East joined the Communist East, but whatever. You caught the point.

After the fall of Communism in 1991, the world looked like it was on the path to globalization.

Oops, 9-11-2001 changed that. The world was redivided, but this time by religion.

Christian west, Islamic Middle East, Athiest Far East.

Nothing fuels fire like God -- this is coming from a fairly fundamental Protestant, by the way.


Basically, religion will not allow the world to be united, and you cannot get rid of religion. EVER.

But, assuming you did, society in itself loses all hope for life -- life in itself becomes pointless, and no one cares. Society collapses.

Welcome to the dawn of civilization, and we now can start all over again.

Please insert your thoughts.
Slinao
12-02-2005, 23:22
eh, its not religion or politics that cause the rifts, its man's constant search for personal power. They use politics and religions as means to hide their true motives, as well as to herd the lesser minded peoples of the world.

If you use the fear that the gods will punish you for not backing their "chosen" leader, you get a rather strong fighting force. Control the minds and hearts of the masses and you control the power of the nations.

World peace will never be reached because man will never put aside its lust for power and control. Its been built into the instict of man. Every religion talks about it, and each religion tries to control it, but in seeking control of something that wishes to control, you reach only balance, and not removeal.
Whittier-
12-02-2005, 23:22
so what else is new?
Fimble loving peoples
12-02-2005, 23:25
Wow. I'm not gonna post a decent reply. The enormous generalisations and glaring errors make it impossible.
Salvondia
12-02-2005, 23:26
WOW, what a wonderfully Northern Hemisphere centric viewpoint...

You might want to go back to the history books and read up on South America, Africa and Australia eh? Also you need to look up other religions, because seriously there is more out there than Christianity, Islam and Atheism.
Fimble loving peoples
12-02-2005, 23:27
WOW, what a wonderfully Northern Hemisphere centric viewpoint...

You might want to go back to the history books and read up on South America, Africa and Australia eh? Also you need to look up other religions, because seriously there is more out there than Christianity, Islam and Atheism.

Rather nice summary of the points I was too lazy to make.
Pyromanstahn
12-02-2005, 23:32
Nothing fuels fire like God -- this is coming from a fairly fundamental Protestant, by the way.


Basically, religion will not allow the world to be united, and you cannot get rid of religion. EVER.

But, assuming you did, society in itself loses all hope for life -- life in itself becomes pointless, and no one cares. Society collapses.


You have just hit upon a perfect reason why we MUST dispose of religion gradually and find something better, and yes it is possible to get rid of religion. The point of life is to better humanity.

People in the beginning of time united out of necessity -- they would die had they not united. It also helped there weren't that many people per se around.

As civilizations started to occur, competition developed. Wars happened, and humans were divided finally -- never to be fully reuntied again.

You can't say that war divided is us 'never to be fully reunited again' because we have never been fully reunited. The simple truth is that our advanced communication has allowed our species to be the only one that has overcome the barriers of unification. While progress in unification has been very 2 steps forward, one step back, it has still been making progress.
There is less war in proportion to the population now than at any other time, and more global organisations commited to peace and cultural sharing now than at any other time.
Gnostikos
12-02-2005, 23:36
Face it, everyone knows it, but they don't want to admit it.
Actually, everyone just knows it.

People in the beginning of time united out of necessity -- they would die had they not united. It also helped there weren't that many people per se around.

As civilizations started to occur, competition developed. Wars happened, and humans were divided finally -- never to be fully reuntied again.
Actually, competition has always existed in humans. That is why we have such huge and bulbous brains--not because of interspecies competition, but primarily because of intraspecies competition.

Vicious cycle, isn't it?
No, not really. Just a cycle. No real positive feedback, just larger scales.

Far East (Wasteland-turned Communist Oppression, along with East)
China =/= Far East. There is much more to the orient than the most populous nation in the world, especially Japan, which was just a little changed after WWII.

Everyone was united by politics, which also happened to be by region.
Which, interestingly enough, is almost always how it happens. It is territorial instinct.

After the fall of Communism in 1991, the world looked like it was on the path to globalization.
No, it didn't. Not to mention that there were and are other Communist besides the U.S.S.R.

Oops, 9-11-2001 changed that. The world was redivided, but this time by religion.
No, not really. Just concieved differences.

Christian west, Islamic Middle East, Athiest Far East.
Wow, I never knew that the far east is atheist. 'Cause I could've sworn it's Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, and the myriad traditional Chinese religions.

Basically, religion will not allow the world to be united, and you cannot get rid of religion. EVER.
Not until we get a replacement such as some, of course.

But, assuming you did, society in itself loses all hope for life -- life in itself becomes pointless, and no one cares. Society collapses.
You overestimate the need of religion. The masses merely need an opium.
Marcks
12-02-2005, 23:37
The bias in in the first post of this topic is astounding :rolleyes: . Have some faith in humans, comrade. :)
Derscon
12-02-2005, 23:39
WOW, what a wonderfully Northern Hemisphere centric viewpoint...

You might want to go back to the history books and read up on South America, Africa and Australia eh? Also you need to look up other religions, because seriously there is more out there than Christianity, Islam and Atheism.

There's a reason I left them out. Africa can do nothing. I was planning on incorportating them, but I was short on time when I wrote this.

Australia I consider part of the "West," as they are fairly close to Europe and America.

I know there are other religions, but they do not occupy major governments that can really affect international events. (I know there's China, but they are an athiest government, and and doing their damndest to rid of religion.)
Schoeningia
12-02-2005, 23:40
But, assuming you did, society in itself loses all hope for life -- life in itself becomes pointless, and no one cares. Society collapses
Is it so hard for some of you religious people to get that a lack of religion means not that life automatically loses sense for one?
What a dull arrogance...

Oh, and don't give too much on the "christianity" in the whole West. Many, if not most, Europeans don't care much about christianity anymore.
Pyromanstahn
12-02-2005, 23:44
I know there are other religions, but they do not occupy major governments that can really affect international events. (I know there's China, but they are an athiest government, and and doing their damndest to rid of religion.)

As far as I was aware, the western governments are secular (apart from America which is only technically secular) The only 2 religions that really affect international events much at the moment I would say are Judaism and Islam, because the situation in Israel is completly a religious one.
Salvondia
12-02-2005, 23:44
There's a reason I left them out. Africa can do nothing. I was planning on incorportating them, but I was short on time when I wrote this.

Africa can do nothing? What a load of crap. And South America? Brazil has one of the largest economies in the world. Never mind that they are also part of the world and if you want to do anything about world unification they need to be included. Especially seeing as far as the future is concerned South America and Africa have the potential to be tremendous powers in the world if they ever get their acts fully together and in gear.

Australia I consider part of the "West," as they are fairly close to Europe and America.

Which one? Europe and America are rather different.

I know there are other religions, but they do not occupy major governments that can really affect international events. (I know there's China, but they are an athiest government, and and doing their damndest to rid of religion.)

Japan? And China is not exactly trying to get rid of religion anymore.
Pyromanstahn
12-02-2005, 23:46
[QUOTE=Derscon]There's a reason I left them out. Africa can do nothing. /QUOTE]

You obviously have no idea of the vast potential of Africa once we manage to finally bring them out of poverty.
Derscon
12-02-2005, 23:47
The bias in in the first post of this topic is astounding :rolleyes: . Have some faith in humans, comrade. :)

Humans were made to worship God -- by themselves they have no hope.
Pyromanstahn
12-02-2005, 23:50
Humans were made to worship God -- by themselves they have no hope.

There's plenty of atheists who have hope and a reason to live. Just because you need a God to give your life meaning, it doesn't mean everyone else does too.
Salvondia
12-02-2005, 23:51
You obviously have no idea of the vast potential of Africa once we manage to finally bring them out of poverty.

"we" as in the rest of the world can't bring them out of poverty when they are forcing it on themselves. They need to bring themselves out of poverty and "we" need to stop propping up their poverty by making it impossible for local tailors to make a living selling shirts because we give them shirts free.
Derscon
12-02-2005, 23:52
[QUOTE=Derscon]There's a reason I left them out. Africa can do nothing. /QUOTE]

You obviously have no idea of the vast potential of Africa once we manage to finally bring them out of poverty.

What? infecting the world with AIDS and slave labor? Not counting South African gold, diamonds etc, but i don't see it.

Granted, I don't get a chance to look at other stuff, and, I'll admit it, I'm not the most educated person in the world (considering I'm a freshman at an American high school).

If you know of something, do tell me.

Also, had I had the time to sit down and think, I probably would have included South America -- I was in a rush, and I wanted to get this done. Oops.

Schoeningia, I'm aware of that fact. Personally, I believe Christianity will eventually wiped off the face of the earth. Then Jesus comes back and tells everyone "Hah! You're wrong!" Only in a Godlike manner. And again, I was in a rush, and didn't have time to incorporate a lot of things as I'd like. Damn deadlines.
CanuckHeaven
12-02-2005, 23:54
Global unity WILL be achieved. When? Who knows when?

Revelations states what will happen and it appears that the world is headed in that direction. God's will, will be done. That is if you believe.
Pyromanstahn
12-02-2005, 23:54
"we" as in the rest of the world can't bring them out of poverty when they are forcing it on themselves. They need to bring themselves out of poverty and "we" need to stop propping up their poverty by making it impossible for local tailors to make a living selling shirts because we give them shirts free.

I fully agree with the principle of 'give a man a fish etc.' but we certainly need to drop debt to help them out of poverty. We're not actually propping up their economy, we're just pretending to.
Gnostikos
12-02-2005, 23:54
I know there are other religions, but they do not occupy major governments that can really affect international events. (I know there's China, but they are an athiest government, and and doing their damndest to rid of religion.)
Wow, I had no idea that China was in any way atheist. They aren't quite Leninist-Marxist.

Especially seeing as far as the future is concerned South America and Africa have the potential to be tremendous powers in the world if they ever get their acts fully together and in gear.
Almost. Cultural and environmental factors pretty much negate that. Sub-Saharan Africa is pretty much the hub of the HIV pandemic. There are so many parasites and pathogens in Africa, and people are so busy killing each other, that they're not going to be doing anything for a long while.

Japan? And China is not exactly trying to get rid of religion anymore.
Japan really isn't too religious. The Japanese haven't really ever taken religion very seriously. And China was never tried very hard to get rid of religion.
Schoeningia
12-02-2005, 23:58
Humans were made to worship God -- by themselves they have no hope.
This point of view is just arrogant and one-sided - nothing more.

Schoeningia, I'm aware of that fact. Personally, I believe Christianity will eventually wiped off the face of the earth. Then Jesus comes back and tells everyone "Hah! You're wrong!" Only in a Godlike manner.
Can't wait to see this day.
Gnostikos
13-02-2005, 00:01
This point of view is just arrogant and one-sided - nothing more.
Kind of. The ubiquity of religion among all world civilisations past and present makes me think that there might be some verity in it. However, I also believe that this is what Marx was referring to when he said that "Religion is the opium of the masses." If we remove religion, then a vacuum will be formed. It must be filled by something. Huxley's soma might be it, though science might potentially also be another solution.
Pyromanstahn
13-02-2005, 00:02
[QUOTE=Pyromanstahn]

What? infecting the world with AIDS and slave labor? Not counting South African gold, diamonds etc, but i don't see it.

Granted, I don't get a chance to look at other stuff, and, I'll admit it, I'm not the most educated person in the world (considering I'm a freshman at an American high school).

If you know of something, do tell me.

I'll give you one thing that Africa can offer the world. Power. Once we run out of fossil fuels we're going to need a lot of that. And Africa just happens to be the continent that receives more solar enery than anywhere else in the world, if it can be harnessed.
Quite apart from that is the fact that once a country becomes comletely self sustaining it will contribute to the world economy. More working people and more trade is always a good thing.
Andaluciae
13-02-2005, 00:03
I'd base the division now on far more than just religion. Hell, we now see major philosophical divides between the West, East and Middle East.

The west has long been the center power in the world, the center of liberal thought, of a focus on the individual. A derivation of the radical changes wrought by the Protestant Reformation of the 1400's and 1500's, and the resulting decentralization of power. The west is marked by technological prowess of incredible proportions.

The far east has long been in a role of subservience to western style nations. With of course the attempted division of China, the European colonialism of Indochina, and the Japanese Empire controlling Korea and the like, through the power of military technology. But this all began to change. The sheer manpower of the far east was eventually used to slow the west, an example of this would be the Chinese in the Korean War. And now, the far east stands politically independent of the west for the first time in living memory. Beyond that, the far east expresses typically a very communal attitude, with far less emphasis on the individual. And often times (but not always) little respect for the liberties that are held so precious in the west.

The middle east was also subdued heavily by the west during the Imperial Age, with French, British and German colonies being visible throughout the region. After the World Wars, the Middle East received it's independence, a revival of Islam led to a renewed regional nationalism, expressed in a series of unsuccessful wars against the Jewish state of Israel. Islamic radicalism has seized the imaginations of some members of the region, and led them to challenge the west. Using improvisation, as they lack the technical sophistication of the west, and the population of the far east, the Middle East finds itself in an odd spot. The middle eastern nations still remembers the now non-existent glory of the Sultans, and their conquests. Often reminiscing about how different the world would be if Charles Martel hadn't stopped the Muslim armies at Tours, or Sobieski hadn't brought his Hussars charging down on the Turkish army at Vienna.

The technocratic, liberal west, is facing the first real challenge to its dominance, nay existence since Kara Mustafa laid siege to Vienna. Oddly enough, the west isn't as strong as it once was. The west standing victorious over the corpse of Soviet Communism fell into a daze, hell, we never thought we'd be rid of the Soviets, but somehow we won. We began to disarm, maximize our comforts, etc. And apathy and pacifism began to rot away at the base of the west, we became complacent. But, the west is still powerful, still the strongest of the three, with it's massive potential industrial and military capability, mainly centered on the three nations with a true ability to project power globally, the US, France and the UK. The west cannot be defeated externally, no, only from the inside. Only complacency, pacifism and fear will ever hold the responsibility for the destruction of the west. Hell, the west must not fail, if liberty and freedom can have any hope of prevailing in the future.

off note: This piece of mine seems incredibly incomplete, and I have a whole lot more to say, but I really have to go, so I'll try to get more down.
Gnostikos
13-02-2005, 00:04
I'll give you one thing that Africa can offer the world. Power. Once we run out of fossil fuels we're going to need a lot of that. And Africa just happens to be the continent that receives more solar enery than anywhere else in the world, if it can be harnessed.
You have no idea how funny that sounds.
Salvondia
13-02-2005, 00:09
[QUOTE=Derscon]

I'll give you one thing that Africa can offer the world. Power. Once we run out of fossil fuels we're going to need a lot of that. And Africa just happens to be the continent that receives more solar enery than anywhere else in the world, if it can be harnessed.
Quite apart from that is the fact that once a country becomes comletely self sustaining it will contribute to the world economy. More working people and more trade is always a good thing.

Bah forget Africa. When we run out of Fossil fuels we need to actually solve the energy problem once and for all and launch solar energy collectors and microwave beam the energy back down to earth. Once we finally do that Humanity's energy woes will finally be solved.
Derscon
13-02-2005, 00:11
Global unity WILL be achieved. When? Who knows when?

Revelations states what will happen and it appears that the world is headed in that direction. God's will, will be done. That is if you believe.

I had a big response, but the forums ate it. *sigh*

Anyways....

Revelations does state what will be done. Thing is, world won't be united until AFTER Armageddon. Interesting little Catch, eh?

Anyways...

Schoeningia, my point of view develops from the Bible. I believe everyone on this earth has a predestined path, chosen by God. Obviously, you are an athiest, so you disagree, but try and keep it civil. Obviously, you are not a Christian, so you do not believe God will come back. So be it.


Now for Gnostikos.

China's government is avowdly athiest, and obviously all the good communists are also athiest. I understand they have the eastern religions, which, combine, they are quite large, but thankfully, they are peaceful. Wait, I'm digressing.

In all honesty, I just assumed that fact that the majority of Chineese and Far Eastern people were athiest due to the communist governments, but as the saying goes, assuming makes an ass out of you and me.

Salvondia, I agree with you on the Africa thing. Personally, I think Africa has no hope. And to respond to your South America thing -- I ran out of time and didn't get a chance to include them. Damn deadlines.

So I'll go at it now.

South America basically needs to solve the drug problem. I don't know how, but it needs to happen if it wants to join the World.

But I'm generalizing majourly.

Brazil and Columbia, in all honesty (and humor) coulr probably live off of coffee exports -- damn good stuff. Keep it up. :)

I'm not too knowledgable about that locale of the world, sorry.

And Pyromanstahn, I'm just curious, but as an athiest, do you believe in life after death? If not, then what is the point of life? Why live it? After all, if we really are just dust in the wind, why bother try and participate at all?
Schoeningia
13-02-2005, 00:14
But, the west is still powerful, still the strongest of the three, with it's massive potential industrial and military capability, mainly centered on the three nations with a true ability to project power globally, the US, France and the UK.
Ha-ha. A strong military isn't the indicator for a nation's international power anymore, what counts today is a strong and stabile economy. Considering that, the UK has fallen back long ago. If you have to reduce Europe to two countries, than these can be no others than the Franco-German motor. If you have to reduce the West, however, to three countries, than these have to bee the US, Germany and Japan.
But I guess you are British, so I don't expect you to acknowledge this. ;)

The west cannot be defeated externally, no, only from the inside. Only complacency, pacifism and fear will ever hold the responsibility for the destruction of the west
Pacifism is a bad thing then? I thought that history has teached us otherwise.
Derscon
13-02-2005, 00:20
[QUOTE=Derscon]

I'll give you one thing that Africa can offer the world. Power. Once we run out of fossil fuels we're going to need a lot of that. And Africa just happens to be the continent that receives more solar enery than anywhere else in the world, if it can be harnessed.
Quite apart from that is the fact that once a country becomes comletely self sustaining it will contribute to the world economy. More working people and more trade is always a good thing.

For when we run out of fossil fuels, we should go to Thermal Depolymirization. Basically, you throw human feces into a plant, and out comes oil. Around a 50% effectiveness rating. Not bad, considering human feces is never going to go away. And we then can get rid of sewage plants. Two for one deal. I think the biproducts are all non-hazardous to the environement, too. I'll have to refind the Wiki article about it.


Andaluciae, very well written. I wish I had that talent. Unfortunately, I don't. :)


Schoeningia, you need both -- a military and a strong economy -- to demonstrate power. Not either or. You need an economy to keep the military, and a military to keep your economy.

Also, pacifism, while not neccestarily a bad thing, is definitely not a good thing.

While peace can be good, one must always be ready for war. Peace is only the gap between fights when all sides recuperate and rearm.
Schoeningia
13-02-2005, 00:21
And Pyromanstahn, I'm just curious, but as an athiest, do you believe in life after death? If not, then what is the point of life? Why live it? After all, if we really are just dust in the wind, why bother try and participate at all?
Would you mind if I give an answer to that too?

First: there are many things in life that I really love to do.
Second: I want to have a family and friends, people who I love and who love me in response.
Third: I want to do my part to make the world a better place that it is. I am able to do this because of my clear mind and my free will. I am a man, and so I feel it as my duty to help men.
Fourth: Why not live? Death will come anyway, so even if I would prefer dying, I will not miss it, isn't that so?

Schoeningia, you need both -- a military and a strong economy -- to demonstrate power. Not either or. You need an economy to keep the military, and a military to keep your economy.

Also, pacifism, while not neccestarily a bad thing, is definitely not a good thing.

While peace can be good, one must always be ready for war. Peace is only the gap between fights when all sides recuperate and rearm.
Well I think that the day will come where all men will be sane enough to live together without wars and armies.
That, or we will extinct ourselves some day.
Salvondia
13-02-2005, 00:23
Salvondia, I agree with you on the Africa thing. Personally, I think Africa has no hope. And to respond to your South America thing -- I ran out of time and didn't get a chance to include them. Damn deadlines.

So I'll go at it now.

South America basically needs to solve the drug problem. I don't know how, but it needs to happen if it wants to join the World.

The drug problem has little to do with South America's postion in the world. What it needs to do is kick out corrupt governments and institute some reasonable form of government. Hell all any of the Country's in South America need is some sort of benevolent government that actually wants to help the countrys out. During the early 1900s most of South America was probably in a better postion than the USA. There is no real legitament reason why they couldn't be in a better postion than the USA today if they had a government on par with the US's.
Gnostikos
13-02-2005, 00:37
Bah forget Africa. When we run out of Fossil fuels we need to actually solve the energy problem once and for all and launch solar energy collectors and microwave beam the energy back down to earth. Once we finally do that Humanity's energy woes will finally be solved.
Can anyone say "fanciful"? The future of energy, after we finally realise that fossil fuels are such a sucky idea in modern times, lies in nuclear and hydrogen energy. If we proceed fast enough, cold fusion or antimatter might help, though I fully believe that hydrogen is how cars are going to be fueled when we've got no more oil. My personal belief is that we need to put much more focus on antimatter research. 100% energy conversion, no waste, and we've been able to produce anti-hydrogen atoms

For when we run out of fossil fuels, we should go to Thermal Depolymirization. Basically, you throw human feces into a plant, and out comes oil. Around a 50% effectiveness rating. Not bad, considering human feces is never going to go away. And we then can get rid of sewage plants. Two for one deal. I think the biproducts are all non-hazardous to the environement, too. I'll have to refind the Wiki article about it.
Yeah...did you know that faeces is biodegradable? Also that faecal matter is not going to provide us with nearly enough energy to do about anything.

Also, pacifism, while not neccestarily a bad thing, is definitely not a good thing.

While peace can be good, one must always be ready for war. Peace is only the gap between fights when all sides recuperate and rearm.
True! So true! And not from a sociological view, but from a biological and sociobiological view.
Salvondia
13-02-2005, 00:57
Can anyone say "fanciful"? The future of energy, after we finally realise that fossil fuels are such a sucky idea in modern times, lies in nuclear and hydrogen energy.

Yes I like nuclear power a lot and I like hydrogen energy a lot. But what is so fanciful about an idea that was worked out and determined possible in the 1960s with 1960s technology? There is no reason we can't do it today other than the cost of the project and the ability to simply say "Eh, we've got fossil fuel anyway." The next one will be "eh, we've got nuclear power anyway." We don't do it because its cheaper in the short term to keep on going with the stuff we have. Frankly, its the best solution that exists to the problem of energy and it has no pollution and likely no affect on the atmosphere. We don't do it because we as a world are a bunch of lazy people who like to take the easy way out whenever possible.

If we proceed fast enough, cold fusion or antimatter might help, though I fully believe that hydrogen is how cars are going to be fueled when we've got no more oil. My personal belief is that we need to put much more focus on antimatter research. 100% energy conversion, no waste, and we've been able to produce anti-hydrogen atoms

You're calling a technology we already have had for 40+ years fanciful but you want to try and work with ANTI-MATTER? lol.
Alien Born
13-02-2005, 01:11
The drug problem has little to do with South America's postion in the world. What it needs to do is kick out corrupt governments and institute some reasonable form of government. Hell all any of the Country's in South America need is some sort of benevolent government that actually wants to help the countrys out. During the early 1900s most of South America was probably in a better postion than the USA. There is no real legitament reason why they couldn't be in a better postion than the USA today if they had a government on par with the US's.

No just the crippling debt repayments that are the legacy of the Military dictatorships.
In general, our governments are as good as, and no more corrupt than, any European government, let alone the US government.
What type of government would you institute. We are democratic countries, responding to the will of the people. Yes we do need the help of a benevolent government, but one in the first world, not here, to rid us of an unjustifiable debt burden.


We also need to get our financial and judicial systems in order, but these are being addressed, against a lot of vested interests.
Salvondia
13-02-2005, 01:38
No just the crippling debt repayments that are the legacy of the Military dictatorships.
In general, our governments are as good as, and no more corrupt than, any European government, let alone the US government.
What type of government would you institute. We are democratic countries, responding to the will of the people. Yes we do need the help of a benevolent government, but one in the first world, not here, to rid us of an unjustifiable debt burden.

We also need to get our financial and judicial systems in order, but these are being addressed, against a lot of vested interests.

We'll likely get back to you on the unjustifiable debt burden when the US doesn't owe ungodly sums of money to China ;)
GoodThoughts
13-02-2005, 01:55
The Great Peace towards which people of good will throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet -- in the words of one great thinker, "the planetization of mankind".

2
Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity's stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1985 Oct, The Promise of World Peace)
Lethargic Triviality
13-02-2005, 02:30
As civilizations started to occur, competition developed. Wars happened, and humans were divided finally -- never to be fully reuntied again.


You and Karl Marx should get together sometime. And while you're doing that move to some communist region, I suggest somewhere in Russia.
Pyromanstahn
13-02-2005, 10:04
And Pyromanstahn, I'm just curious, but as an athiest, do you believe in life after death? If not, then what is the point of life? Why live it? After all, if we really are just dust in the wind, why bother try and participate at all?

Well, if there is no life after death, then that is even more reason to live your life to the fullest and enjoy it while you can. Basically, no matter how philosophical we get and no matter how pointless we think life is, most of us will continue to live it because built into us is the burning desire to stay alive and pass on our genes.
Derscon
13-02-2005, 23:27
You and Karl Marx should get together sometime. And while you're doing that move to some communist region, I suggest somewhere in Russia.

You realize, of course, that I'm a conservative.