NationStates Jolt Archive

Well?

Yes it is.

No it isnt. Its good to like where you live, but Patriotism just leads to racism and hatred.

I strongly recommend the essay "Notes on Nationalism" by George Orwell as one of the most down to Earth and insightful articles written about the phenominen of the zealotism of nationialism as opposed to Patriotism. I've always said i was a patriot and never a nationalist and this stands true.

To me a patriot is someone who takes pride in their country even when it's about something as having the good grace to concede a point or rectify past wrongs. A nationalist however is someone who believes that a particular nation is superior in all forms and graces and are often unreasonable about their assumptions. Think: Hitler for Germany, Stalin for Russia, or dare i say Bush for the US. Interesting some of the great nationalist have been foreigners (Hitler, Stalin even Napolean)

Good. To a point. Patriotism doesn't mean never criticizing. Because I love America, I want to improve her.

"Patriotism is a menace to liberty." - Emma Goldman

Think: Hitler for Germany, Stalin for Russia, or dare i say Bush for the US. Interesting some of the great nationalist have been foreigners (Hitler, Stalin even Napolean)

Yeah. Almost as strange as most of the world being foreign.

"Patriotism is a menace to liberty." - Emma Goldman

Can you explain given your sig line? No discrepency? Thanks!

If by a patriot you mean:

Tearing up when i hear the National Anthem.
Get misty eyed when i watch a war movie.
Get angry when my nations rights are being overlooked.
Become frustrated when those in my nation are being disenfranchised.
Believe in my country, but knows when there is somehting amiss.
Stand behind my leader no matter who he is.

Then yes, i am a patriot.

Patriotism can be a good thing. It is good to love your country, and to be proud of it when it is good. However, you should not BLINDLY love your country. You should criticize your government and your leaders. You should know when something is amiss.
I guess what I am saying is, love your country, but don't love everything it does.

As a Communist I am also an internationalist and am opposed to all forms of nationalism and patriotism. I believe nationalism is one of the most dangerous ideologies in existence as we can see from the terrible events which nationalism was responsible for in Nazi Germany and in Yugoslavia. Here is quote from Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto about the abolition of countries and nationalities:

"The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.

National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.

The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.

In proportion as the exploitation of one individual by another will also be put an end to, the exploitation of one nation by another will also be put an end to. In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility of one nation to another will come to an end."

If by a patriot you mean:

Tearing up when i hear the National Anthem.
Get misty eyed when i watch a war movie.
Get angry when my nations rights are being overlooked.
Become frustrated when those in my nation are being disenfranchised.
Believe in my country, but knows when there is somehting amiss.
Stand behind my leader no matter who he is.

Then yes, i am a patriot.

Haha. Patriot. I loathe my country. But it's still the best in the world. That was not a contradiction by the way, just the culmination of low expectations.

Well?

It can be either good or bad, depending upon the Country toward which you are being patriotic and your reasons for being so. Ergo, I didn't respond to the poll.

Patriotism is good if you live in a free and open country. If you live in N. Korea or something then it's like a dog licking the hand of it's abusive master.

Bump

Here is one of countless reasons to be partiotic:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=494&ncid=762&e=8&u=/ap/20050211/ap_en_tv/people_seymour

Patriotism is only bad for the selfish.

Well?
I'd agree with e. e. cummings....

"next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims' and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn's early my
country tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?"

He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water

For the most part, it's a good thing. It's good to love your country.

Patriotism just leads to racism and hatred.

How so?

Patriotism is stupid. I don't really see the point of it.

Patriotism is stupid. I don't really see the point of it.
why?

Like most other things in the world, patriotism is good in moderation...

Patriotism is stupid. I don't really see the point of it.
Patriotism is being proud of what your home-country stands for, be it liberty, or whatever.

In the US a patriot doesn't need to be a flag waver, a patriot is someone who shows up at the polls to vote, a patriot let's himself know what's going on in the world, a patriot expresses himself openly and truthfully.

Letila, you have a warped sense of what a patriot is.

Patriot is an ugly word where I live, and I'm proud of that.

Patriot is an ugly word where I live, and I'm proud of that.

Where do you live?

Where do you live?

Location: Sweden :rolleyes:

Damn, I feel stupid now.

It is both.

I serves a purpose but can be abused.

It is both.

I serves a purpose but can be abused.
*raucous clapping and repeated "hear, hear"s*

The problem is today there are two camps, the conservatives of the right prefer patriotism, and the liberals of the left prefer proggress. Ironicly though the two should be hand-in-hand. History shows us that patriotism is nothing if proggress does not make the nation great. It also shows us that proggress only comes from a patriotic attempt to make the nation great. Proggress, and obviously patriotism, never occour internationaly. Its easy to see why both camps would develope such hatreds. The liberals have learned to hate conservatives because patriotism alone is a hamper to all proggress. The conservatives have learned to hate the liberals because liberal proggress always occours at the expense of the nation. Obviously this should stop, patriotism and proggress must join forces for the benifet of both and an end to this stupid division.

Of course you should show patriotism. It is important that you not only like where you live, but you support the countries ideas. I'm not saying that you have to agree with everything that someone says, but you should share the same interest in basic issues. Another thing, I read a message from early and it stated that patriotism creates racism and hatred. Weather you believe in patriotism or not there will always be forms of racism and hatred. Feel free to respond to me and explain your thoughts better, but until then I will keep believing in patriotism.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious -- Oscar Wilde

Let me put it this way. I have several friends and faimley living outside of the U.S. and they are more important to me than my goverment. Period.

Let me put it this way. I have several friends and faimley living outside of the U.S. and they are more important to me than my goverment. Period.

And they should be.

Patriotism goes beyound government. The government is not the nation, it represents the nation, so patriotic feelings shouldn't go directly to it. Any patriot can hate his government, I do.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious -- Oscar Wilde
Oww! that hurts! use more lube! -- Oscar Wilde

Yeah. Almost as strange as most of the world being foreign.

No, what he meant was that they became nationalists of countries other than where they were born. Hitler was an Austrian who practiced German nationalism. Stalin was a Georgian who practiced Russian nationalism. Napolean was from an island (Italian descent, I believe, though ruled by France) and practiced French nationalism.

The nazis were just being patriotic you know?

There can nothing truly good or bad about loving ones country. What makes it good or bad depends on the outcome of actions made based on that love, and wether they served a good or bad purpose.

No it isnt. Its good to like where you live, but Patriotism just leads to racism and hatred.
also Patriotism LEADS TO WAR

Of course you should show patriotism. It is important that you not only like where you live, but you support the countries ideas. My country was founded on noble IDEALS Freedom, Justice, Democracy.
I will always support these IDEALS, they are good IDEALS...
will I support a war like the one in Iraq?.. Fuck NO

If supporting the War in Iraq defines a Patriot...then all I can say Patriotism is a cancer.

I like Mark Twain's definition of patriotism: support your country always and your government when it deseves it.

Patriotism? Good, but has its limits. Which is why I voted it was bad!!

Thrasher is also a dirty word in Sweden. But then, evernyone there is a Rövhål anyway.



Må din pung bli överkörd av femhundra siamesiska elefantbögar samtidigt som du får en ananas uppkörd långt upp i rektum.

My, my, that was awfully intellectual. Typicaly homophobic, as well.

Mods notified of course.

I think it can be a good thing, to love your country within reason. Being, say, nationalistic to the extent of raicism is bad, obviously. But having pride in yourself and country, that is good.

taking pride in a country? Every country has its bad history...

I am proud of what I am...and I am proud of "where I come from"...my country.

Im my country some idiots associating PATRIOTISM with "SUPPORT FOR THE WAR"...

so for as long as that definition is out there...I will not touch it.

B0zzy, flaming is flaming, no matter whether it's written in English, Swedish, or Old Church Slavonic, and as such it is against the rules of this site. Further offences will result in an official Moderation warning.

Everyone else; this is obviously a highly charged topic. Please remember to play nice.

~ Tsar the Mod.

If supporting the War in Iraq defines a Patriot...then all I can say is Patriots are stupid dickheads.

People who degrade others for no greater reason than they have a different opinion are not people who may speak with authority when calling others childish names.

Yay patriotism!

Remember people we aren't talking Nationalism(think of Patriotism as Diet Nationalism or, for you people in the rest of the word, Patriotism: Light.)

No it isnt. Its good to like where you live, but Patriotism just leads to racism and hatred.

Well said

Well said
Seconded.

Can you explain given your sig line? No discrepency? Thanks!
On the surface, there is a discrepancy. However, there are different ideas of what it means to be patriotic. Some people view patriotism as "my country, right or wrong." This is the type of patriotism that Emma Goldman was referring to in her essay. After she wrote the essay, she spoke out against WWI and was arrested and later deported. Therefore, if patriotism means that, then it is indeed a menace to liberty as she was thrown in jail for using her freedom of speech.
On the other hand, the quote in my signature line refers to the original Patriots, the Founding Fathers who fought against Britain in the Revolutionary War. The idea of the quote is to take that idea and use it with the renewed "patriotism" that people felt after the Sept. 11th attacks.

patriotism is good, but there's a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. natonalism, now that's clearly bad. that's what leads to war. liking your own country is a good thing. just don't take it to the extremes.

it's like with everything else. take anything to extremes and it'll end up being overrated, overimportant, and eventually bad.

My, my, that was awfully intellectual. Typicaly homophobic, as well.

Mods notified of course.
ROFLMAO! If you don't understand it it MUST be homophobic! Go cry to your mommy and leave the board to the grown-ups here.

When youy reach puberty maybe you will discover the finer things in life like irony, humor and sarcasm.

People who degrade others for no greater reason than they have a different opinion are not people who may speak with authority when calling others childish names.Im not pretending to have authority...

Im not pretending to have authority...
but I did edit my post...

B0zzy, flaming is flaming, no matter whether it's written in English, Swedish, or Old Church Slavonic, and as such it is against the rules of this site. Further offences will result in an official Moderation warning.

Everyone else; this is obviously a highly charged topic. Please remember to play nice.

~ Tsar the Mod.

I can't believe you deated my thread without having any idea what it said. Censorship of flames is acceptable, but censorship of something that you don't know the meaning of is the worst form of censorship of all.

The so called 'flame' was actually quite innocuous and funny and was given in the most playful fasion. It included a reference to five hundred siamese elephants, a pineapple and a scrotum! How could that not be funny!!! It was mocking the 'patriotism is a dirty word in Sweden' comment and quite apropriate in that context. Anyone sensitive enough to be insulted by something they do not understand deserves no quarters. Shame on you for accomodating them.

I strongly recommend the essay "Notes on Nationalism" by George Orwell as one of the most down to Earth and insightful articles written about the phenominen of the zealotism of nationialism as opposed to Patriotism. I've always said i was a patriot and never a nationalist and this stands true.

To me a patriot is someone who takes pride in their country even when it's about something as having the good grace to concede a point or rectify past wrongs. A nationalist however is someone who believes that a particular nation is superior in all forms and graces and are often unreasonable about their assumptions. Think: Hitler for Germany, Stalin for Russia, or dare i say Bush for the US. Interesting some of the great nationalist have been foreigners (Hitler, Stalin even Napolean)

Agreed. However, excessive patriotism can lead to "narrow nationalism", or even worse.
Personally, I don't like nationalism because no one can define what should be a nation's criteria. Race? Geography? etc...

Check out this site of the "World Government": http://www.worldgovernment.org/

but I did edit my post...

Thank you. I didn't mean to come off as an ass, which I probably did, but I was really tired when I wrote that.

That depends.

If your country is occupied, Patriotism is a good thing. If your country is not occupied, there is no need for patriotism.

Try some risk management instead. Like "Be nice to the stranger, he could be your client tomorrow."

Patriotism=good
Excessive patriotism/nationalism=not good

Bush is trying to make anything less extreme than nationalism seem unpatriotic. Don't be decived.