NationStates Jolt Archive

Declassified documents sure make you wonder (http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm)


Washington, D.C., February 10, 2005 - The National Security Archive today posted the widely-debated, but previously unavailable, January 25, 2001, memo from counterterrorism coordinator Richard Clarke to national security advisor Condoleezza Rice - the first terrorism strategy paper of the Bush administration. The document was central to debates in the 9/11 hearings over the Bush administration's policies and actions on terrorism before September 11, 2001. Clarke's memo requests an immediate meeting of the National Security Council's Principals Committee to discuss broad strategies for combating al-Qaeda by giving counterterrorism aid to the Northern Alliance and Uzbekistan, expanding the counterterrorism budget and responding to the U.S.S. Cole attack. Despite Clarke's request, there was no Principals Committee meeting on al-Qaeda until September 4, 2001.

The January 25, 2001, memo, recently released to the National Security Archive by the National Security Council, bears a declassification stamp of April 7, 2004, one day prior to Rice's testimony before the 9/11 Commission on April 8, 2004. Responding to claims that she ignored the al-Qaeda threat before September 11, Rice stated in a March 22, 2004 Washington Post op-ed, "No al Qaeda plan was turned over to the new administration."

Two days after Rice's March 22 op-ed, Clarke told the 9/11 Commission, "there's a lot of debate about whether it's a plan or a strategy or a series of options -- but all of the things we recommended back in January were those things on the table in September. They were done. They were done after September 11th. They were all done. I didn't really understand why they couldn't have been done in February."

Also attached to the original Clarke memo are two Clinton-era documents relating to al-Qaeda. The first, "Tab A December 2000 Paper: Strategy for Eliminating the Threat from the Jihadist Networks of al-Qida: Status and Prospects," was released to the National Security Archive along with the Clarke memo. "Tab B, September 1998 Paper: Pol-Mil Plan for al-Qida," (http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20attachment.pdf)also known as the Delenda Plan, was attached to the original memo, but was not released to the Archive and remains under request with the National Security Council.

Below are additional references to the January 25, 2001, memo from congressional debates and the 9/11 Commission testimonies of Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice.


Why weren't they done in February?

How about because The IMMEDIATE meeting on al Qaeda requested by Clarke in JAnuary did not take place until Sept. 4, 2001. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=21&u=/nm/20050211/pl_nm/security_clark_memo_dc_6)

Now, call me crazy - but if you can't get the group together to discuss the plan and approve actions for 8 months, don't be that fricken suprised that your team doesn't go and set national policy on their own. Because they know damn well that they don't have the authority to do that.

And incidentally, how can you state that the reccommendations could have been done months earlier on the one hand at the same time as you are saying that there was no plan on the other? Makes no sense.

Could they have stopped the attacks? Who knows. Probably not. But does it look like Condi was stretching the truth a whole lot in her op-ed and in her testimony? Sure does to me....

And if memory serves, she swore an oath before testifying...

Ok. You're crazy, *SNIP*

Ok? Is that a joke?

If not, then how does that prove him wrong?

Ok. You're crazy, bonkers. Your elevator doesn't reach the top floor. Your ideas have hair all over them. You're two bricks shy of a truckload, two sandwitches short of a picnic, one bottle shy of a six-pack, one barrell short of a shotgun. A few clowns short of a circus. A few fries short of a Happy Meal. An experiment in Artificial Stupidity.
Dumber than a box of hair.
A few peas short of a casserole.
Don't have all your cornflakes in one box.
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
One Fruit Loop shy of a full bowl.
One taco short of a combination plate.
A few feathers short of a whole duck.
All foam, no beer.
The cheese slid off your cracker.
Body by Fisher, brains by Mattel.
Have an IQ of 2, but it takes 3 to grunt.
Warning: Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear.
Can't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
Fell out of the Stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.
An intellect rivaled only by garden tools.
As smart as bait.
Chimney's clogged.
Don't have all your dogs on one leash.
Don't know much but lead the league in nostril hair.
Forgot to pay your brain bill.
Your sewing machine's out of thread.
Your antenna doesn't pick up all the channels.
Your belt doesn't go through all the loops.
If you had another brain, it would be lonely.
Missing a few buttons on your remote control.
No grain in the silo.
Proof that evolution CAN go in reverse.
Receiver is off the hook.
Several nuts short of a full pouch.
Skylight leaks a little.
Slinky's kinked.
Surfing in Nebraska.
Too much yardage between the goal posts.
In the pinball game of life, your flippers were a little further apart than most.
Not funny. not witty. Just keep mean thoughts to yourself next time.

Ok? Is that a joke?

If not, then how does that prove him wrong?
Eutruscas elevator is apparently out of order.

Ok. You're crazy, bonkers. Your elevator doesn't reach the top floor. Your ideas have hair all over them. You're two bricks shy of a truckload, two sandwitches short of a picnic, one bottle shy of a six-pack, one barrell short of a shotgun. A few clowns short of a circus. A few fries short of a Happy Meal. An experiment in Artificial Stupidity.
Dumber than a box of hair.
A few peas short of a casserole.
Don't have all your cornflakes in one box.
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
One Fruit Loop shy of a full bowl.
One taco short of a combination plate.....


Sharp as a marble

tis easier to attack someone than refute their claims.


but I always liked to say "12 cans short of a six pack"

"Mean thoughts?" Hmm. I take it you've never really seen "mean thoughts."
The only point of your post was to make Zepp look silly. You refuted nothing, rendering the post utterly pointless, and rather inflamatory.

I've seen my fair share of "mean thoughts," granted, this isn't at the top of the list but seriously, have some respect next time.

It would be quite nice to see Condi go down in flames and take the rest of the Bush administration with her.

I thought a jocular response to the first line in his post in this thread would be better than simply flaming him for the entire post.

Because, in your usual manner, random ad hominem attacks are easier to do than actually attempting to debate the topic at hand. :rolleyes:

Stay on-topic, Eutrusca. Don't hijack threads.

I think I am the only one who didn't take Eutrusca's post seriously.

Why the hell would he post that many colloquialisms in one post if not meant as a joke?

Pertaining to the original post, I have pondered the same questions for a long time, I didn't really need a memo released 3 years after the fact to be a little concerned about our preparedness for 9/11.

Because, in your usual manner, random ad hominem attacks are easier to do than actually attempting to debate the topic at hand. :rolleyes:

*WOO WOO WOO WOO*

HYPOCRITE ALERT!!!!

I think I am the only one who didn't take Eutrusca's post seriously.

Why the hell would he post that many colloquialisms in one post if not meant as a joke?

Pertaining to the original post, I have pondered the same questions for a long time, I didn't really need a memo released 3 years after the fact to be a little concerned about our preparedness for 9/11.
No you are not the only one who realised Eutrusca was joking, the handful of people who thought he was serious have however been very vocal on the subject.
At least thats what I think, but hey you can call me crazy if you want .

PS:Isnt hypocrite alert supposed to be green?

No you are not the only one who realised Eutrusca was joking, the handful of people who thought he was serious have however been very vocal on the subject.
At least thats what I think, but hey you can call me crazy if you want .

Ok. You're crazy, bonkers. Your elevator doesn't reach the top floor. Your ideas have hair all over them. You're two bricks shy of a truckload, two sandwitches short of a picnic, one bottle shy of a six-pack, one barrell short of a shotgun. A few clowns short of a circus. A few fries short of a Happy Meal. An experiment in Artificial Stupidity.
Dumber than a box of hair.
A few peas short of a casserole.
Don't have all your cornflakes in one box.
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
One Fruit Loop shy of a full bowl.
One taco short of a combination plate.
A few feathers short of a whole duck.
All foam, no beer.
The cheese slid off your cracker.
Body by Fisher, brains by Mattel.
Have an IQ of 2, but it takes 3 to grunt.
Warning: Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear.
Can't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
Fell out of the Stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.
An intellect rivaled only by garden tools.
As smart as bait.
Chimney's clogged.
Don't have all your dogs on one leash.
Don't know much but lead the league in nostril hair.
Forgot to pay your brain bill.
Your sewing machine's out of thread.
Your antenna doesn't pick up all the channels.
Your belt doesn't go through all the loops.
If you had another brain, it would be lonely.
Missing a few buttons on your remote control.
No grain in the silo.
Proof that evolution CAN go in reverse.
Receiver is off the hook.
Several nuts short of a full pouch.
Skylight leaks a little.
Slinky's kinked.
Surfing in Nebraska.
Too much yardage between the goal posts.
In the pinball game of life, your flippers were a little further apart than most.

Ok. You're crazy, bonkers. Your elevator doesn't reach the top floor. Your ideas have hair all over them. You're two bricks shy of a truckload, two sandwitches short of a picnic, one bottle shy of a six-pack, one barrell short of a shotgun. A few clowns short of a circus. A few fries short of a Happy Meal. An experiment in Artificial Stupidity.
Dumber than a box of hair.
A few peas short of a casserole.
Don't have all your cornflakes in one box.
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
One Fruit Loop shy of a full bowl.
One taco short of a combination plate.
A few feathers short of a whole duck.
All foam, no beer.
The cheese slid off your cracker.
Body by Fisher, brains by Mattel.
Have an IQ of 2, but it takes 3 to grunt.
Warning: Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear.
Can't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
Fell out of the Stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.
An intellect rivaled only by garden tools.
As smart as bait.
Chimney's clogged.
Don't have all your dogs on one leash.
Don't know much but lead the league in nostril hair.
Forgot to pay your brain bill.
Your sewing machine's out of thread.
Your antenna doesn't pick up all the channels.
Your belt doesn't go through all the loops.
If you had another brain, it would be lonely.
Missing a few buttons on your remote control.
No grain in the silo.
Proof that evolution CAN go in reverse.
Receiver is off the hook.
Several nuts short of a full pouch.
Skylight leaks a little.
Slinky's kinked.
Surfing in Nebraska.
Too much yardage between the goal posts.
In the pinball game of life, your flippers were a little further apart than most.
see you dont have any request there for someone to call you crazy thereby ruining what could have been some shit hot spam action. You could always edit something in though.

So, besides simply calling me "anti-American" (and presumably that also makes the American group who solicited the memo 'anti-american' :rolleyes: ), does anyone have anything of substance to add to the actual topic?


Her testimony is public record.
Her op-ed peice is public record.
This memo is now public record.

And frankly the three things just don't seem to line up.

Etrusca if you want to start a thread about the great things America is doing and how wonderful the USA is go for it.

I have heard Zepp say good things about the US before, but I for one would rather hear the dirt on the Bush administration because it's much more fun for those of us who really dislike it. Especially when it can't be refuted.

*WOO WOO WOO WOO*
HYPOCRITE ALERT!!!!

I suppose I should say the same thing to you now?

Eutrusca responded to the original post without addressing the actual topic. Instead he made a personal attack. How exactly is pointing out this behaviour even pretending to discuss the original post? Therefore the post isn't being hypocritical.

Would you prefer I start an entire new topic rather than replying?

see you dont have any request there for someone to call you crazy thereby ruining what could have been some shit hot spam action. You could always edit something in though.

Call me crazy, but I didn't think that Zepp would be too happy if we hijacked his thread any more.

Edit: Fixed

Etrusca if you want to start a thread about the great things America is doing and how wonderful the USA is go for it.

I have heard Zepp say good things about the US before, but I for one would rather hear the dirt on the Bush administration because it's much more fun for those of us who really dislike it. Especially when it can't be refuted.


I have said plenty of good things about America and Americans. I have said very few, however, about the Bush Administration.

Up until November 2, that got me labelled "partisan". Now it gets me labelled "anti-american".


Hey, whatever turns your crank I guess, although it generally doesn't go a long way towards proving me wrong.

does anyone have anything of substance to add to the actual topic?


Her testimony is public record.
Her op-ed peice is public record.
This memo is now public record.

And frankly the three things just don't seem to line up.

Why should they line up? She's in politics, it's her JOB to not be consistent with what she says. She, like ALL politicians, say what she needs to say to not get more flak than she already gets at the moment she says things.

Imagine if she made the testimony, "Yep, we screwed the pooch on this one. Sorry folks." How would that make anything any better than her coming up with various circle chases and excuses? It wouldn't, and in fact it would make the bad things that will eventually happen come a lot sooner.

Call me crazy, but I didn't think that Zepp would be too happy if we hijacked his thread any more.
Bah! Zepps always happy hes Canadian- its the happiest place on earth.

EDIT:oops I mixed up Canada with Disneyworld :(

I suppose I should say the same thing to you now?

Eutrusca responded to the original post without addressing the actual topic. Instead he made a personal attack. How exactly is pointing out this behaviour even pretending to discuss the original post? Therefore the post isn't being hypocritical.

Would you prefer I start an entire new topic rather than replying?

Call me crazy, but I guess you could call me that if you wanted to.

You resorted to a personal attack in response to what you thought was a personal attack. Next time, leave out the "in your usual manner" and the rolly eyeballs.

Bah! Zepps always happy hes Canadian- its the happiest place on earth.

EDIT:oops I mixed up Canada with Disneyworld :(


damn, you beat me, I was going to say: 'Yes, if you mean 'canada' the stip club." :mad: .

Bah! Zepps always happy hes Canadian- its the happiest place on earth.

EDIT:oops I mixed up Canada with Disneyworld :(

Call me crazy, but I have always thought they were the same place. :confused: :confused:

Call me crazy,
Ok, um, hmmmmmmmm ah I got it!

You made hundreds of posts slagging off the republicans and then posted that you didnt go out and vote democrat cos you were hungry.

I have said plenty of good things about America and Americans.

I've never heard any. All I hear is "america is teh suxors", "america is teh dumb".

At least von witzleben admits he wants to see the US collapse.

Why should they line up? She's in politics, it's her JOB to not be consistent with what she says. She, like ALL politicians, say what she needs to say to not get more flak than she already gets at the moment she says things.

Imagine if she made the testimony, "Yep, we screwed the pooch on this one. Sorry folks." How would that make anything any better than her coming up with various circle chases and excuses? It wouldn't, and in fact it would make the bad things that will eventually happen come a lot sooner.


Yes, imagine if we tried to enforce honesty and ethics in politics. The whole world would fall apart....

As to the notion that admitting a mistake will make "bad thing come sooner", I disagree. You can't do much about fixing a problem if you won't acknowledge it in the first place.

Next time, leave out the "in your usual manner" and the rolly eyeballs.

Why? He has done it repeatedly recently - hence "usual". Generally it's whenever someone supports a position he opposes or requests proof of a unsupportable generalisation. It's poor debating form, it's tedious, and it's insulting to the other person.

Ok, um, hmmmmmmmm ah I got it!

You made hundreds of posts slagging off the republicans and then posted that you didnt go out and vote democrat cos you were hungry.

What kind of crazy moron would do something like that and admit to it, seriously, you would have to be brain dead to pull something like that.

Why? He has done it repeatedly recently - hence "usual". Generally it's whenever someone supports a position he opposes or requests proof of a unsupportable generalisation. It's poor debating form, it's tedious, and it's insulting to the other person.

Because when you engage in it, you lose all rights to admonish someone for it.

What kind of crazy moron would do something like that and admit to it, seriously, you would have to be brain dead to pull something like that.
Its funny cos its true :D

All I hear is "america is teh suxors", "america is teh dumb".


Funny I have never heard Zepp say anything like that. Link?

Because when you engage in it, you lose all rights to admonish someone for it.

So what would you prefer? Examples? I can find those easily enough. Pointing it out individually every time? That's repetitive and annoying to all concerned.

If I were using ad hominem tactics, I would be making a personal attack in reply to a debate point from the other person. Here, there is no such thing.

ObOnTopic: Surely we don't want a government where we expect our politicians to lie to us. One of the basic principles of a democracy is that the voter can make an informed decision, and if they weren't accountable for their statements, it would completely negate that.

So what would you prefer? Examples? I can find those easily enough. Pointing it out individually every time? That's repetitive and annoying to all concerned.

If I were using ad hominem tactics, I would be making a personal attack in reply to a debate point from the other person. Here, there is no such thing.

You do have a point that he didn't actually have a point to refute, so it is not really ad hominem. Still, when you said "in your usual manner" you resorted to a personal attack. Either way, it is best dropped.

So what would you prefer? Examples? I can find those easily enough. Pointing it out individually every time? That's repetitive and annoying to all concerned.

If I were using ad hominem tactics, I would be making a personal attack in reply to a debate point from the other person. Here, there is no such thing.

ObOnTopic: Surely we don't want a government where we expect our politicians to lie to us. One of the basic principles of a democracy is that the voter can make an informed decision, and if they weren't accountable for their statements, it would completely negate that.

the funny thing is... the people who defend their guys by saying "thats the way govt works, they lie" are all up in arms over Bill Clinton saying he never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky and still cant let go of it to this day.

Well I think you're all insane ... this whole place is a mad house ... A MAD HOUSE!!! (props to Chuck Heston)

That said, about the topic at hand, I'm just waiting for the right moment to release the nekkid pics of Condi I snapped in Florida a few years back. :shiftyeyes:

Well I think you're all insane ... this whole place is a mad house ... A MAD HOUSE!!! (props to Chuck Heston)

That said, about the topic at hand, I'm just waiting for the right moment to release the nekkid pics of Condi I snapped in Florida a few years back. :shiftyeyes:

Oh Sweet Jesus, no.

Oh Sweet Jesus, no.

I'll give you plenty of warning to do a pre-emptive eye gouging. :D

Yeah, but she'll just say that they were really taken last month - not a few years back, but also that there really weren't any pictures to begin with....