NationStates Jolt Archive

Just wondering your views on the following:

Our school has recently introduced a behavioural tracking system - every incident such as failure to hand in homework or forgot PE Kit through to Possesion of drugs and bullying, is stored in a database/application, students get assigned negative points for each incident depending on serverity of the offence, at any point they can print out a report of everything we have done, they will do this for wherever we go after school be it college, apprenticeship, jobs etc.

I feel this is grossly unfair, students arent necessarily told they have been put on this database and they are not given chance to appeal against it,each case should be based on merit because at the end of the day if you were in the worng place at the wrong time and you were involved in an incident you will get a sleuth* and in the future this incident may get brought back up and used against you, they dont seem to understand that when your a kid you do the occasionally stupid thing etc and now these momentary lapses of maturity may cos you a place ina college youve dreamed of - i dont see why they cant just have repetitively offending individuals on this database instead of picking on everyone, do you not agree?

btw this is my first/second post so sorry if there are mistakes etc lol :D

*sleuth is the name of the database

Just wondering your views on the following:

Our school has recently introduced a behavioural tracking system - every incident such as failure to hand in homework or forgot PE Kit through to Possesion of drugs and bullying, is stored in a database/application, students get assigned negative points for each incident depending on serverity of the offence, at any point they can print out a report of everything we have done, they will do this for wherever we go after school be it college, apprenticeship, jobs etc.

I feel this is grossly unfair, students arent necessarily told they have been put on this database and they are not given chance to appeal against it,each case should be based on merit because at the end of the day if you were in the worng place at the wrong time and you were involved in an incident you will get a sleuth* and in the future this incident may get brought back up and used against you, they dont seem to understand that when your a kid you do the occasionally stupid thing etc and now these momentary lapses of maturity may cos you a place ina college youve dreamed of - i dont see why they cant just have repetitively offending individuals on this database instead of picking on everyone, do you not agree?

btw this is my first/second post so sorry if there are mistakes etc lol :D

*sleuth is the name of the database


are you in the UK or Europe?

There are many databases that you and your children are in that you will never know about.

Schools today (at least in my area of the US) are required to use data to not only identify simple truancy, but detect indicators of neglect or abuse.

Minor, intermittent missing of homework assignments combined with occasional behavioral incidents MAY in SOME circumstances, indicate a problem at home involving neglect, abuse, or drugs.

OR so the studies say.

SO in keeping with the nanny state, where the Government is always given the power and authority to act as the REAL parent of your children (a job that you, by voting for certain candidates over the years, have abdicated almost completely), they will collect this information and USE it.

That's right. You might as well be the child now. There's no law to prevent collecting or using the information in that manner - without notifying you - in the US as long as the government is doing it, and especially in the context of public education - which is compulsory.

Catch-22. It's the best catch there is.

Are you in a public or private school?

If private, you can't do anything.

If public, you should be able to do something, but I'll have to check which rights minors don't have for some odd reason.

There are many databases that you and your children are in that you will never know about.

Schools today (at least in my area of the US) are required to use data to not only identify simple truancy, but detect indicators of neglect or abuse.

Minor, intermittent missing of homework assignments combined with occasional behavioral incidents MAY in SOME circumstances, indicate a problem at home involving neglect, abuse, or drugs.

OR so the studies say.

SO in keeping with the nanny state, where the Government is always given the power and authority to act as the REAL parent of your children (a job that you, by voting for certain candidates over the years, have abdicated almost completely), they will collect this information and USE it.

That's right. You might as well be the child now. There's no law to prevent collecting or using the information in that manner - without notifying you - in the US as long as the government is doing it, and especially in the context of public education - which is compulsory.

Catch-22. It's the best catch there is.

Not exactly true. In the UK and Europe there is something call the Data Protection Act. If you suspect that an organisation is holding data on you, be it written or digital you can ask for that data be released to you so you can check the veracity.

Are you in a public or private school?

If private, you can't do anything.

If public, you should be able to do something, but I'll have to check which rights minors don't have for some odd reason.

Makes no odds under the Data Protection Act if the person is in the UK or Europe.

are you in the UK or Europe?

UK - England

are you in the UK or Europe?


Isn't UK in Europe lol :D


But seriously that is wrong. School should be educating, motivating and teaching to survive in the real world. Being crushed in school...??? I don't know.
:(

Are you in a public or private school?

If private, you can't do anything.

If public, you should be able to do something, but I'll have to check which rights minors don't have for some odd reason.

public: comprehensive in the west midlands

Isn't UK in Europe lol :D


But seriously that is wrong. School should be educating, motivating and teaching to survive in the real world. Being crushed in school...??? I don't know.
:(

I know. The point is that the legislation is not restricted to the UK alone.

Wear a turban to school and start refusing to shave. The results will astound you.

If you live in the US, schools must turn over certain lists of personal information to military recruiters, but you (or your parents) can opt out. One of the little-known provisions of the No Child Left Behind Act.

Not exactly true. In the UK and Europe there is something call the Data Protection Act. If you suspect that an organisation is holding data on you, be it written or digital you can ask for that data be released to you so you can check the veracity.

Oh, veracity, very well then. It doesn't sound like you can stop them from using the data.

Wear a turban to school and start refusing to shave. The results will astound you.

I thought it was enough to wear a headscarf and be a little girl.

i think you can ask them to remove it from their database...or not to send it on to a third party

UK - England

I'd be quite concerned.

You will need to speak to your local education authorities data controller (Information Officer -Data Protection Act).

here is a link the relevant part of the act..

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/80029--b.htm#7

I

I thought it was enough to wear a headscarf and be a little girl.

Well it's easy to pick on little girls. They're all frail and stuff.

Oh, veracity, very well then. It doesn't sound like you can stop them from using the data.

Well it depends on the application of the data.

As part of my job I need to know about the DPA but not to this extent. I think there are provisions within the act that allows schools to use data like this. However there are still certain aspects that the school has to provide, such as data integrity and security.

im not on the database, however im concerned for people hwo i know who are straight A studnets who are forgetful one time and they have this stain on their record, does the new Freedom of information act have any effect on this behaviour system?

I'd be quite concerned.

You will need to speak to your local education authorities data controller (Information Officer -Data Protection Act).

here is a link the relevant part of the act..

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/80029--b.htm#7

I

thanks

Well it depends on the application of the data.

As part of my job I need to know about the DPA but not to this extent. I think there are provisions within the act that allows schools to use data like this. However there are still certain aspects that the school has to provide, such as data integrity and security.

I should have the right to ask them to stop collecting information.
I should have the right to prevent them from using the information without my exact knowledge and approval of how they will use the information.
I should have the right to erase the information, and to check again to make sure it is really erased.
I should have the right to anonymize my information.

im not on the database, however im concerned for people hwo i know who are straight A studnets who are forgetful one time and they have this stain on their record, does the new Freedom of information act have any effect on this behaviour system?

No.

Only the DPA.

What you might think of doing is get a petition going with your fellow students AND the parents (you will need to have the parents on your side) and then contact the newspapers, local radio and TV and present the petition to you LEA and council leaders.

Personally I abhor this use of technology.

Just wondering your views on the following:

Our school has recently introduced a behavioural tracking system - every incident such as failure to hand in homework or forgot PE Kit through to Possesion of drugs and bullying, is stored in a database/application, students get assigned negative points for each incident depending on serverity of the offence, at any point they can print out a report of everything we have done, they will do this for wherever we go after school be it college, apprenticeship, jobs etc.

I feel this is grossly unfair, students arent necessarily told they have been put on this database and they are not given chance to appeal against it,each case should be based on merit because at the end of the day if you were in the worng place at the wrong time and you were involved in an incident you will get a sleuth* and in the future this incident may get brought back up and used against you, they dont seem to understand that when your a kid you do the occasionally stupid thing etc and now these momentary lapses of maturity may cos you a place ina college youve dreamed of - i dont see why they cant just have repetitively offending individuals on this database instead of picking on everyone, do you not agree?

btw this is my first/second post so sorry if there are mistakes etc lol :D

*sleuth is the name of the database


Ha Ha! f*******. I live in the UK where the teachers would get their ass kicked if they did such a crap thing.

I should have the right to ask them to stop collecting information.
I should have the right to prevent them from using the information without my exact knowledge and approval of how they will use the information.
I should have the right to erase the information, and to check again to make sure it is really erased.
I should have the right to anonymize my information.

Is all of the above in the law?

I should have the right to ask them to stop collecting information.
I should have the right to prevent them from using the information without my exact knowledge and approval of how they will use the information.
I should have the right to erase the information, and to check again to make sure it is really erased.
I should have the right to anonymize my information.

1 - No. You are in a school. Data needs to be collect for purposes of administration and grading.

2 - Yes. I agree with you completely.

3 - No. See 1.

4 - No. See 1.

You do have the right to check to see that the information is correct.

...and especially in the context of public education - which is compulsory.



Public education in the US is not compulsory. You can attend private school, parochial school, or even be home schooled.

does your principal refer to himself affectionately as your "BIG BROTHER"?

yes your school has gone crazy, you need to agitate for lower school taxes so they cant afford this system any more.

Ha Ha! f*******. I live in the UK where the teachers would get their ass kicked if they did such a crap thing.

Im in the uk....
they have done this.....
there arses are not currently being kicked....
:D

Ha Ha! f*******. I live in the UK where the teachers would get their ass kicked if they did such a crap thing.

BWWWAAAHHAHAHAHA you tosser read the frikkn thread

despite what the laws say do you not think this is morally wrong?

1 - No. You are in a school. Data needs to be collect for purposes of administration and grading.

2 - Yes. I agree with you completely.

3 - No. See 1.

4 - No. See 1.

You do have the right to check to see that the information is correct.

I should have the right to home school, or go to a private school, and then I should be able to ask for all of the above.

hey are they doing this in ireland? if so, i am completely screwed....

despite what the laws say do you not think this is morally wrong?

I think what they are doing is trying to micromanage the schools students. A sign of a management that is nervous and afraid to make mistakes.

Morality does not play a part in this.

I would say that what is wrong is that this is not an ideal environment for you kids to be taught. If I was a parent and my kids had this I would be incensed and raising hell.

...they dont seem to understand that when your a kid you do the occasionally stupid thing etc and now these momentary lapses of maturity may cos you a place ina college youve dreamed of - i dont see why they cant just have repetitively offending individuals on this database instead of picking on everyone, do you not agree?


The database has to be fair, and thus has to include everyone. Your idea of including repetitively offending individuals is a good one, but how do you define repetitively?

Anyone looking at the analysis will easily be able to tell the difference between a normal kid and a troublemaker. If you're worried that this might keep you out of the school of your dreams, it's up to you to make sure you're never in a situation where you might be thought of as a participant. It's your job to stay out of trouble and away from troublemakers. If the people you hang around with tend to cause trouble, you're going to get caught up in it, even as a bystander, and that will be your fault, because you know your friends and choose to hang around them anyway.

Rather than blame the system for hypothetical problems, students should be aware of what the people around them are doing and decide to stay or leave. Accidents happen, and mistakes happen, everyone knows that. The database is likely going to be good at pointing out who has accidents and who tend to be in the wrong place more often than not.

If you're a good kid who stays out of trouble, this will not affect you.

I should have the right to home school, or go to a private school, and then I should be able to ask for all of the above.

You do have a right to be home schooled or to go to a private school. None of that would negate the law though.

Its like saying that its alright to commit murder on private property.

im not on the database, however im concerned for people hwo i know who are straight A studnets who are forgetful one time and they have this stain on their record, does the new Freedom of information act have any effect on this behaviour system?

I think their grades will speak louder than a minor incident. People in admissions are not idiots and can see that one minor incident is not significant. They're looking for kids with real problems, not average kids.

You do have a right to be home schooled or to go to a private school. None of that would negate the law though.

Its like saying that its alright to commit murder on private property.

Oh, so being late to a class at public school is just like committing murder?

I disagree slouthing is a great idea, discipline is key to education and as for drugs? Well they are illegal! Teachers should be able to know exactly what you've done so that if you do bad things you will suffer!
Good work schools thats what i say!

The Republic of bogglemasters

The database has to be fair, and thus has to include everyone. Your idea of including repetitively offending individuals is a good one, but how do you define repetitively?

Anyone looking at the analysis will easily be able to tell the difference between a normal kid and a troublemaker. If you're worried that this might keep you out of the school of your dreams, it's up to you to make sure you're never in a situation where you might be thought of as a participant. It's your job to stay out of trouble and away from troublemakers. If the people you hang around with tend to cause trouble, you're going to get caught up in it, even as a bystander, and that will be your fault, because you know your friends and choose to hang around them anyway.

Rather than blame the system for hypothetical problems, students should be aware of what the people around them are doing and decide to stay or leave. Accidents happen, and mistakes happen, everyone knows that. The database is likely going to be good at pointing out who has accidents and who tend to be in the wrong place more often than not.

If you're a good kid who stays out of trouble, this will not affect you.
Most people do stay out of trouble but its for petty things like forgetting PE kit etc - you cant help that, we're young we should be allowed to make mistakes, if we dont make mistakes now then how will we ever learn?

The database has to be fair, and thus has to include everyone. Your idea of including repetitively offending individuals is a good one, but how do you define repetitively?

Anyone looking at the analysis will easily be able to tell the difference between a normal kid and a troublemaker. If you're worried that this might keep you out of the school of your dreams, it's up to you to make sure you're never in a situation where you might be thought of as a participant. It's your job to stay out of trouble and away from troublemakers. If the people you hang around with tend to cause trouble, you're going to get caught up in it, even as a bystander, and that will be your fault, because you know your friends and choose to hang around them anyway.

Rather than blame the system for hypothetical problems, students should be aware of what the people around them are doing and decide to stay or leave. Accidents happen, and mistakes happen, everyone knows that. The database is likely going to be good at pointing out who has accidents and who tend to be in the wrong place more often than not.

If you're a good kid who stays out of trouble, this will not affect you.


Ok so lets just have the schools rollout goody goody clones :rolleyes:

Kids don't have jobs. Or if they do its to be...well...kids!

I find your post to be disturbing on so many levels. You are essentially saying that kids ought not to have any kind of childhood...basically to be adults...*ugh*

[QUOTE=Tevae]The database has to be fair, and thus has to include everyone. Your idea of including repetitively offending individuals is a good one, but how do you define repetitively? [QUOTE]


For example some people who were constantly disruptive in lessons always misbehaving would be put on 'report' where the teacher would right a comment for that lesson, all the reports are read to keep a tab on behaviour

I should have the right to ask them to stop collecting information.
I should have the right to prevent them from using the information without my exact knowledge and approval of how they will use the information.
I should have the right to erase the information, and to check again to make sure it is really erased.
I should have the right to anonymize my information.

I think behavioral data in a school is necessary. You shouldn't be able to "opt out" of the disciplinary system; that doesn't make sense. Anonymizing the information also makes no sense. It's like anonymizing criminal records...I think we all agree that it's best to keep track of who did what crime, and to take note of repeat offenders. Anonymous data would not be able to do this.

I feel this is grossly unfair... [students] are not given chance to appeal against it...

Well, if you can't appeal against it, demonstrate against it.

If your views are held by a majority of the school's students, I suppose you could band together a peaceful demonstration, and protest after hours?

(Scoff at your will, I don't pay much attention to the practicality of my ideas.) :p

Oh, so being late to a class at public school is just like committing murder?

huh?? Thats not what I said and you know it!!!

The thing in my school is that they have all our personal info on PC's, including mug-shots. My entire year is tacked across my Head of Years wall in his office, its demeaning and wrong.... fucking pervert

UK - England

I think their grades will speak louder than a minor incident. People in admissions are not idiots and can see that one minor incident is not significant. They're looking for kids with real problems, not average kids.

In the UK grades mean less than they used to, nowadays its what your like as a person and other extra-curricular activities you do which affect whther to get a certain place/job

Well, if you can't appeal against it, demonstrate against it.

If your views are held by a majority of the school's students, I suppose you could band together a peaceful demonstration, and protest after hours?

(Scoff at your will, I don't pay much attention to the practicality of my ideas.) :p

yeh the students that feel it is unfair are people who want to learn and want an education - the people who dont care are those who dont give a damn if they have a record or not as is shown in their work stadards. i wanted to see what u all thought first so we had a decent argument for when confronting our head teacher/head of year etc and that i knew we had a case

Ok so lets just have the schools rollout goody goody clones :rolleyes:

Kids don't have jobs. Or if they do its to be...well...kids!

I find your post to be disturbing on so many levels. You are essentially saying that kids ought not to have any kind of childhood...basically to be adults...*ugh*

No, you misunderstood. Kids will be kids. Kids make mistakes. But truthfully, can you say that kids are incapable of knowing right from wrong, and should therefore be excused from their behavior? No. But kids know what is right and wrong, and they should therefore be responsible when they choose to do something wrong. Anyone looking at a record of behavior will readily be able to see that a kid with a kight record was average, where a kid who has case after case of issues is probably not one who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

this database/application is a private piece of software which was BOUGHT by the school, it wasnt free and i do not think it was a government handout etc
all data is held on computers, we have a area netwrok at our school with user names and passwords - the file can be located easily and is only denied access by a simple password upon opening the file.

No, you misunderstood. Kids will be kids. Kids make mistakes. But truthfully, can you say that kids are incapable of knowing right from wrong, and should therefore be excused from their behavior? No. But kids know what is right and wrong, and they should therefore be responsible when they choose to do something wrong. Anyone looking at a record of behavior will readily be able to see that a kid with a kight record was average, where a kid who has case after case of issues is probably not one who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
imagine you are recruiting for a job, you have two student with identical grades, both give good interviews; one of them has a couple of 'sleuths' the other has none - who are you going to employ?


another point - you dont choose to forget something, things are polarised when it comes to behaviour

Most people do stay out of trouble but its for petty things like forgetting PE kit etc - you cant help that, we're young we should be allowed to make mistakes, if we dont make mistakes now then how will we ever learn?

One incident isn't going to impact a person. The database is obviously to be used to determine if a particular kid is repeatedly having these problems. Since most kids make a few mistakes, all of these kids with minor infractions will be average. Anyone looking at this data will be looking for kids who are less well behaved than average. You don't have to worry unless you tend to get in trouble more than most kids, in which case you can't argue that it isn't a big deal.

Also, you best learn from your mistakes by having to deal with consequences. If you never bothered to study for tests, got all Fs, but ended up with an A on your report card, would you work hard and study to deserve that A? Probably not. If there are no consequences for making mistakes, why would you bother to correct them?

For example some people who were constantly disruptive in lessons always misbehaving would be put on 'report' where the teacher would right a comment for that lesson, all the reports are read to keep a tab on behaviour

You use another vague term "constantly." Who decides if three incidents is "constantly" or of ten incidents are? If you record everything, then the students who are less well behaved than average students will pop out. If only bad students are included, then only the very worst students will be noticible. You need to be able to compare the against the generally good students to know who the bad students are.

I bet if a new policy on homosexual suppression came up, and they started collecting data on potential homosexual behaviors by students, you would all get really upset.

Ah, too bad! We need to know this sort of thing to stamp it out! (you would hear the neocons running your school say).

Or, if they were stamping out prayer in school, even private prayer, and collecting data on students who were surreptitiously praying, some of you would get upset (Ah, too bad! We need to know this sort of thing to stamp it out! you would hear the leftys running your school say).

imagine you are recruiting for a job, you have two student with identical grades, both give good interviews; one of them has a couple of 'sleuths' the other has none - who are you going to employ?


I'm going to employ the one who had the sense or ability to avoid trouble. If having "sleuths" is uncommon, then typical kids won't have them. If having "sleuths" is common, then a student without any would be extraordinary, and more desirable.

[FONT=Verdana] Just wondering your views on the following:
Wow, your school has totally overstepped its boundaries. I can understand a permanent record w/marks from, say, suspension, but things as minor as forgetting HW?!?!?!?!?

Wow, apparently your school must love crimethink :mp5:

I bet if a new policy on homosexual suppression came up, and they started collecting data on potential homosexual behaviors by students, you would all get really upset.

Ah, too bad! We need to know this sort of thing to stamp it out! (you would hear the neocons running your school say).

Or, if they were stamping out prayer in school, even private prayer, and collecting data on students who were surreptitiously praying, some of you would get upset (Ah, too bad! We need to know this sort of thing to stamp it out! you would hear the leftys running your school say).

I think that behavioral incidents are completely different than personal beliefs or practices. If a student misbehaves in school, it is the school's responsibility to address that. Schools are not responsible to address social issues. I don't think you would argue that we should just let kids be as bad as they want, which is the parallel to what you are arguing here.

I think that behavioral incidents are completely different than personal beliefs or practices. If a student misbehaves in school, it is the school's responsibility to address that. Schools are not responsible to address social issues. I don't think you would argue that we should just let kids be as bad as they want, which is the parallel to what you are arguing here.

In some schools in some locations, I would bet that a boy kissing another boy would be considered a behavioral incident.

In some schools in some locations, praying in school is considered a behavioral incident.

I'm not saying that kids should be as bad as they want. I just want those records kept on paper instead of in a computer.

I've mined enough data to know that there's more you can collect and more you can use than you will ever tell the collectees.

i don't think i ever did homework in highschool.

assignments were one thing. homework was another.

that's a really stupid system. i mean, if you see a kid who has never done their homework but is getting straight a's accross the board, they shoudln't be penalized because some other kids need to do homework to do well and so teachers deceide to force everyone to do homework.

i don't know how much of an impact things like that have though. i got written up in highschool because some girl deceided to shove me into the ping pong tables in front of the whole cafeteria (i was in oac and this stupid grade 9 had no respect for the authority of the oacs) because i somewhat started the incident (well, not really, i was playing a song on the juke box and she kept changing it by unplugging it and plugging it back in whereas i waited until 30 seconds had elapsed [you couldn't change it until 30 seconds into a song] and changed it. and she dared me to try to change the song, so i did and she shoved me... with teachers everywhere...)

at any rate, they made a note about that, but i still got into every university i applied to.

In some schools in some locations, I would bet that a boy kissing another boy would be considered a behavioral incident.

In some schools in some locations, praying in school is considered a behavioral incident.

I'm not saying that kids should be as bad as they want. I just want those records kept on paper instead of in a computer.

I've mined enough data to know that there's more you can collect and more you can use than you will ever tell the collectees.

In any school I ever went to, any kind of kissing, whether homo- or heterosexual, was a behavioral incident. That is not appropriate behavior in a school setting, and the school should step in. If they punish a boy-boy incident and not a boy-girl incident, that's discrimination and should be addressed by the affected as such.

The same goes for prayer in school. Private prayer is allowed (in the US). It's compulsory prayer that is not allowed. Thus, if you are praying in school, and your method of prayer does not conflict with any standard rules (i.e., if your prayer involves shrieking aloud to the sky, and you pray in the library, it's a behavioral issue, because the library is supposed to be a quiet place; if you're sitting quietly in the cafeteria with your hands folded, it's discrimination).

I don't see the difference between a paper or electronic database, as they relate to this thread. The student who started the thread seemed to be against them keeping extensive behavioral records for use by legitamate people, not worrying about unauthorized uses of the info.

Here's a real beaut:

I was suspended in May of OAC for talking back to the librarian because I wouldn't get off the computer I was doing schoolwork on, even though the guy next to me was playing games, I basically said "no way, I'm working here!" and turned my back on her. They wouldn't accomadate me while I was trying to work, so I wouldn't move. I eventually got sent to the vice principals office.

The charges were: talking back to a teacher (who had gone out the in door and had bumped into me - yea, I mouthed back to them telling them that they should have used the outdoor) and for not moving off a computer while NOT breaking any rules.

This bitch of a VP then pulls up my record and cites stuff I did as a kid that was I was never suspended for and says that in grade 2 I had mouthed back at a teacher and then cited a couple of other incidents like that before grade 4.

So, you know, having a system where you can pull up records of stupid things you did has a kid that can be used against you is VERY unfair. I was suspended when I was 19 and I did some of the crap I was suspended 11-13 years before then.

A system that tracks kids like that would be unfair to those of us who commit minor unnoteworthy offensces.

at any rate, they made a note about that, but i still got into every university i applied to.

how many universities to you attend currently?

Here's a real beaut:

This bitch of a VP then pulls up my record and cites stuff I did as a kid that was I was never suspended for and says that in grade 2 I had mouthed back at a teacher and then cited a couple of other incidents like that before grade 4.

So, you know, having a system where you can pull up records of stupid things you did has a kid that can be used against you is VERY unfair. I was suspended when I was 19 and I did some of the crap I was suspended 11-13 years before then.

A system that tracks kids like that would be unfair to those of us who commit minor unnoteworthy offensces.

I will agree this is excessive. I was under the impression that this was a high-school database, and would only encompass the last four or so years of "regular" education, before university or college. Pre-teen incidents have no real relevance to a teenager, unless the problem has been a trend throughout the time, in which case, the records wouldn't need to go back so long, because nothing will change in those 4 years, and that record should be enough.

As this system has only just been introduced, do you think there is anyway of stopping it either via law or if not by student pressure, if the latter what should the main point of my argument be?

Just wondering your views on the following:

Our school has recently introduced a behavioural tracking system - every incident such as failure to hand in homework or forgot PE Kit through to Possesion of drugs and bullying, is stored in a database/application, students get assigned negative points for each incident depending on serverity of the offence, at any point they can print out a report of everything we have done, they will do this for wherever we go after school be it college, apprenticeship, jobs etc.

I feel this is grossly unfair, students arent necessarily told they have been put on this database and they are not given chance to appeal against it,each case should be based on merit because at the end of the day if you were in the worng place at the wrong time and you were involved in an incident you will get a sleuth* and in the future this incident may get brought back up and used against you, they dont seem to understand that when your a kid you do the occasionally stupid thing etc and now these momentary lapses of maturity may cos you a place ina college youve dreamed of - i dont see why they cant just have repetitively offending individuals on this database instead of picking on everyone, do you not agree?

btw this is my first/second post so sorry if there are mistakes etc lol :D

*sleuth is the name of the database

I think this is an excellent idea and should be done in my school! Where is this happening?

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU.

As this system has only just been introduced, do you think there is anyway of stopping it either via law or if not by student pressure, if the latter what should the main point of my argument be?

It could be stopped via law more effectively than by student pressure. The administration is likely not to be moved by student pressure, because they are not really beholden to the students. I think parent pressure will be more effective.

To address your question, though, I'm going to have to make a few assumptions.

If you want to put student pressure, you'll have to say that good students, with a few minor infractions, will be compared negatively to an equally achieving student at a different school whose infractions are not recorded in this way. Schools compare themselves to each other, especially with regard to percent of graduates going on to higher education, so anything that might put their students at a disadvantage vs other equal schools will not be viewed as favorably. This also applies if it is a regional issue (for example, all the schools in a particular district are tracked in this database).

You need to demonstrate that average students will suffer more under this system than the bad students it is intended to highlight. You need to show that the system is redundant, in that if a student doesn't turn in homework, it will affect that student's grade, and if a student misbehaves, there is already a system in place for tracking disciplinary issues.

You'll need to see what arguments they used to promote the database in the first place, and come up with serious arguments as to how the database does not accomplish those goals, or (if it accomplishes them all well) that the system is overly burdensome for the majority of students.

Anecdotal evidence will not be enough; one or two examples don't determine a trend. Hypotheticals won't work, either, because anyone can imagine a circumstance for or against anything. For every imagined harm that you think up, they'll be able to counter with an imagined benefit that outweighs your example.

Do some research and see if this has been used elsewhere, and what effect it has had. If you can show them that a real-life example of how the system did not perform to expectations, then they will have to confrot the evidence and defend their position.

It could be stopped via law more effectively than by student pressure. The administration is likely not to be moved by student pressure, because they are not really beholden to the students. I think parent pressure will be more effective.

To address your question, though, I'm going to have to make a few assumptions.

If you want to put student pressure, you'll have to say that good students, with a few minor infractions, will be compared negatively to an equally achieving student at a different school whose infractions are not recorded in this way. A schools compare themselves to each other, especially with regard to percent of graduates going on to higher education, so anything that might put their students at a disadvantage vs other equal schools will not be viewed as favorably. This also applies if it is a regional issue (for example, all the schools in a particular district are tracked in this database).

You need to demonstrate that average students will suffer more under this system than the bad students it is intended to highlight. You need to show that the system is redundant, in that if a student doesn't turn in homework, it will affect that student's grade, and if a student misbehaves, there is already a system in place for tracking disciplinary issues.

You'll need to see what arguments they used to promote the database in the first place, and come up with serious arguments as to how the database does not accomplish those goals, or (if it accomplishes them all well) that the system is overly burdensome for the majority of students.

Anecdotal evidence will not be enough; one or two examples don't determine a trend. Hypotheticals won't work, either, because anyone can imagine a circumstance for or against anything. For every imagined harm that you think up, they'll be able to counter with an imagined benefit that outweighs your example.

Do some research and see if this has been used elsewhere, and what effect it has had. If you can show them that a real-life example of how the system did not perform to expectations, then they will have to confrot the evidence and defend their position.


Thanks Tevae, thats really useful, i know you are not against this idea of database and tracking therefore i respect you for still offering constructive advice for how to deal with this.

tis outrageous, lets napalm the sleuth!

Thanks Tevae, thats really useful, i know you are not against this idea of database and tracking therefore i respect you for still offering constructive advice for how to deal with this.

I think that your interest and willingness to attempt to deal with the database within the system is admirable, and you deserve to have a fair shot. Plus, it will look good that you are attempting to resolve an issue in an adult way, rather than just whining and complaining and not offering a real solution (which is what the administration would expect). That alone will make a positive impact.

The database doesn't impact me one way or the other, so I have no personal interest in maintaining it. If you can prove to them that it is useless or a waste of money, then they shouldn't have considered the system in the first place. If they can find a better way to accomplish the same goal, then that's good for everyone, and I will always support that!