NationStates Jolt Archive

Title is a bit misguiding to the enire message I am trying to get accross... sorry for the detraction of my intent.

I say nay to obey for every married couple that wants to remain true to themselves and thier significant other.... I believe R-E-S-P-E-C-T should replace obey. When I said "I DO" I now know that I wasnt talking about doing any honey do's or any other type of obeying, and I never want my wife to obey a word I speak... Thats why we both never included the word obey in our vows... But my question to everyone that cares to answer is this...what do you think about obeying? Should anyone ever obey another person.. Yes this includes our children..I think we should respect, love and cherish one another not obey....Opinions? :fluffle:


Also I believe an enlisted man and woman should be respected by thier so called superior officers, and the officers should be respected by our so called enlisted men and women within our military ranks.....

Mutual respect becomes mutual understanding, acceptance and love. This gets the ball rolling and keeps it rolling forever. If the politicians want someone to die for thier pocket book and self righteous ideas more willingly... then they better start respecting people a whole lot betta.

I say nay to obey for every married couple that wants to remain true to themselves and thier significant other.... I believe R-E-S-P-E-C-T should replace obey. When I said "I DO" I now know that I wasnt talking about doing any honey do's or any other type of obeying, and I never want my wife to obey a word I speak... Thats why we both never included the word obey in our vows... But my question to everyone that cares to answer is this...what do you think about obeying? Should anyone ever obey another person.. Yes this includes our children..I think we should respect, love and cherish one another not obey....Opinions? :fluffle:


Also I believe an enlisted man and woman should be respected by thier so called superior officers, and the officers should be respected by our so called enlisted men and women within our military ranks.....

Mutual respect becomes mutual understanding, acceptance and love. This gets the ball rolling and keeps it rolling forever. If the politicians want someone to die for thier pocket book and self righteous ideas more willingly... then they better start respecting people a whole lot betta.


If you are in the military you not only have to obey, you should obey. Not to do so can place yourself, your colleagues and even your country at risk. If you do not feel that you are capable of this, do not join the military.
(This is one of the problems with conscription, the person who is psychologically incapable of submitting their will to that of the organization is forced to do so.)

In marriage, it should be a decision made by the couple. Some individuals prefer to exchange freedom for security. In these cases "obey" is appropriate.
For what I believe to be the majority, "obey" should not be included.

As for respect, this should be given to all other beings, regardless of vows.

I agree....we omitted "obey" in our wedding vows. Only thing/person I obey is the Law. Respect is a much better way to go.

If you are in the military you not only have toi obey, you should obey. Not to do so can place yourself, your colleagues and even your country at risk. If you do not feel that you are capable of this, do not join the military.
(This is one of the problems with conscription, the person who is psychologically incapable of submitting their will to that of the organization is forced to do so.)

In marriage, it should be a decision made by the couple. Some individuals prefer to exchange freedom for security. In these cases "obey" is appropriate.
For what I believe to be the majority, "obey" should not be included.

As for respect, this should be given to all other beings, regardless of vows.

See I wholeheartly disagree.... I served 5 years honorably and always respected every person I ever came accross and was respected by every person I ever came across within the ranks. At least it appeared that way to me. Respect got me to do the things they wished me to do. Respect got the people to do what I asked them to do...


I told a so called superior of mine in front of his so called superior that "I am going to fucking kill him if he didnt shut the fuck up". When he started questioning how I was doing the work I was 'asked' to do by both of thier superiors.... The so called superior to both of us told us "both to shut the fuck up". When you get disrespected by someone, then you are only disrespecting them and yourslef if you dont stand up for what you know is right. He was right to tell us both to stfu as I was right to tell that dickhead to stfu as well. Respect outlasts obediance.

I'm not for mindlessly obeying anything.
Laws might not always be just, and the same goes for orders.
Basicly it depends on how well you can trust whatever entity or institution you are obeying whether you should.

I agree....we omitted "obey" in our wedding vows. Only thing/person I obey is the Law. Respect is a much better way to go.

I disagree, I agree... There are no formalities worth following that are not within your heart. I geuss its just a coincidence that many of our formalities coincide with how I live my life... I dont believe in harming any living being unless its in a case of self defense.. I would only take one to save one. Vindictiveness is something that goes way beyond our rule of law... it is sometimes heartfelt...but rarely rational. So I do not like vidictivness but I also know that it would be hard to control my heart if someone was to harm someone I love. There does not always have to be a reaction to every action... that is decided upon the individual. Right or wrong who are we to say otherwise... We are all self righteous after all are we not? But I also have to say I would be a self appointed self righteous asshole if I didnt agree with you that everything you and any other says is as correct as what I am saying.

Speaking as a married person.. they have basically taken the "obey" part out of the vows. The only people who still might use it are people in very orthodox type religions, that I don't know. But it has been omitted from the basic wedding vows for some time now.

There are times that obedience is in one's best interest and the reasons why are not always apparent until after the fact. However, to demand obedience is not acceptable. Obedience is best when it is given from a position of trust and respect. I would never ask someone to vow to obey me carte blanch. There are times and circumstances when it is appropriate to obey, but they are typically few and far between and rarely occur in a marital relationship.

There are times that obedience is in one's best interest and the reasons why are not always apparent until after the fact. However, to demand obedience is not acceptable. Obedience is best when it is given from a position of trust and respect. I would never ask someone to vow to obey me carte blanch. There are times and circumstances when it is appropriate to obey, but they are typically few and far between and rarely occur in a marital relationship.

I agree with you on the most part. I think for what you're saying, there is a better word then "obey" though. It just sounds so wrong. Ya know what I mean?

If all goes according to plan, I will be getting married in two years, and I will be damned if either of us is going to answer "I do" to any vows that include the word "obey." Especially considering neither of us listens to the other half the time anyway...she basically ignores me out of pure stubbornness, and I get her back by doing the same.

"Respect" is a good word as well. It should replace a lot of words people misuse today...the phrase "love thy neighbor" or "love your enemies" is definitely overkill. "Respect thy neigbor" or "respect your enemies" is appropriate, however, and it wouldn't surprise me if "love" is actually a mistranslation of the word for "respect" in whatever language those edicts were written in.

Yeah, I think when I get married, I'll use the traditional vows, except "obey" will be replaced with "respect". This is especially true since, traditionally, the obey part has actually only been thought to apply to one of the people involved, not both.

There are times that obedience is in one's best interest and the reasons why are not always apparent until after the fact.
Yes, but you should not have to obey a person just because you're devoting your life to them. You should obey because they have told you to do something useful, meaningful, worthwhile - for you, as well as them. If they can rationally explain why following their command is a good thing, and you can see the point, fair enough. If not, then it really should be a personal decision, whether that decision turns out to be for the best or for the worst. I agree with the rest of your post, certainly.

Should I ever get married, I would definitely not have the 'obey' vows (mind you, since I'm an atheist, I'd be getting married in a civil ceremony which is probably less likely to have such vows unless you specifically ask for them). I may be perfectly willing to share my life with the other person, but that doesn't mean that they are superior to me, nor I to them. For one of us to assume that we can therefore just tell the other what to do all the time is wrong. I do believe in compromise and occasional sacrifice for the sake of those you love, obviously, but there are times when even the closest people will have to just let differences of opinion drop, rather than trying to make others do exactly what they want.

ah crap i thought this was gonna be about whether or not divorce should be allowed :headbang:
thats a different matter maybe worthy of making a thread about....

Yeah, I think when I get married, I'll use the traditional vows, except "obey" will be replaced with "respect". This is especially true since, traditionally, the obey part has actually only been thought to apply to one of the people involved, not both.


Definitely a problem IMO. If my wife had wanted to leave it in, I'd have made it a part of my vows as well.

Yeah, I think when I get married, I'll use the traditional vows, except "obey" will be replaced with "respect". This is especially true since, traditionally, the obey part has actually only been thought to apply to one of the people involved, not both.

I agree, it really doesn't even apply to the world we live in any more. I suppose maybe some where out there Mormon polygamists still use it or some thing.. but short of that, I can't think of a woman I know who would agree to that in their wedding vows. I know it sure as heck wasn't in mine..lol

Yes, but you should not have to obey a person just because you're devoting your life to them. You should obey because they have told you to do something useful, meaningful, worthwhile - for you, as well as them. If they can rationally explain why following their command is a good thing, and you can see the point, fair enough. If not, then it really should be a personal decision, whether that decision turns out to be for the best or for the worst. I agree with the rest of your post, certainly.

Should I ever get married, I would definitely not have the 'obey' vows (mind you, since I'm an atheist, I'd be getting married in a civil ceremony which is probably less likely to have such vows unless you specifically ask for them). I may be perfectly willing to share my life with the other person, but that doesn't mean that they are superior to me, nor I to them. For one of us to assume that we can therefore just tell the other what to do all the time is wrong. I do believe in compromise and occasional sacrifice for the sake of those you love, obviously, but there are times when even the closest people will have to just let differences of opinion drop, rather than trying to make others do exactly what they want.


I'm not suggesting it should be a part of the vows. The obedience thing works for both genders and only under very specific circumstances and shouldn't be the primary means of family decision making.

I'm not suggesting it should be a part of the vows. The obedience thing works for both genders and only under very specific circumstances and shouldn't be the primary means of family decision making.
Fair enough, I agree with you on that.

See I wholeheartly disagree.... I served 5 years honorably and always respected every person I ever came accross and was respected by every person I ever came across within the ranks. At least it appeared that way to me. Respect got me to do the things they wished me to do. Respect got the people to do what I asked them to do...


I told a so called superior of mine in front of his so called superior that "I am going to fucking kill him if he didnt shut the fuck up". When he started questioning how I was doing the work I was 'asked' to do by both of thier superiors.... The so called superior to both of us told us "both to shut the fuck up". When you get disrespected by someone, then you are only disrespecting them and yourslef if you dont stand up for what you know is right. He was right to tell us both to stfu as I was right to tell that dickhead to stfu as well. Respect outlasts obediance.

Note trhe last line of my previous post. I hold that respect should be given universally. No need for vows or oaths of alleigance or anything else.

In a non combat situation, you can afford to be arguing with your superior officer(s) and they with each other as well. Under hostile fire, however, you obey the order without question. That is a basic principle of al military organisations since the Romans, and it is there for a reason. You receive an order to retreat, and you question it, discuss the situation, argue your point of view, and are eventually persuaded that retreat is the tactically sound maneouvre at that moment. While this is going on, enemy forces have flowed throuigh the whole that your non compliance of orders has created. That is the end of you, your unit and probably many others as well. In war the military has to obey unquestioningly its officers.
Now the problem with the insubordination that you cited above is that it creates a culture of doubt. Yes your CO may be a complete dick, but his orders still have to be obeyed. A request, of course, rather than a direct order is another issue entirely.