NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, Guerrillas are nothing new. They have been around since.... the dawn of civilization really. Ever since there have been smaller armies against bigger armies, people have had to learn un-orthodox tactics to learn to win.

So, what do you think is/was the best Guerrilla Force ever?

Modern day. The Viet Cong. In the antique the warriors of the Gemanic tribes. Namely the Visigoths.

Mao's guerillas - the people who succeeded in the Chinese Revolution.

He wrote the modern book.

I'd say the Afghan Mujahideen. They had defended Afghanistan from countless invasions many many times. First, they appeared fighting off the British Invasion of Afghanistan. Then they fought back numerous internal conflicts. Then they fought off the Soviet Union(Afghanistan was the U.S.S.R.s Vietnam), and then fought the American Army, and although they didn't win, they still put up a helluva fight.

Viet Cong without a doubt.

I can't count the French Resistance.

They did not exist until they were organized by the British SOE. At all.

Even after they were formed, they did not possess enough willingness, power, and organization to effectively overthrow the government on their own - winning is my criteria for a successful organization.

The Americans were not, by and large, guerillas. They fought mostly in open, set piece battles. So they're out.

The IRA hasn't won. And does not possess the capability to win, much like the French Resistance. So they lose.

I'm still wondering why you didn't put the Chinese revolutionaries on there.

Mao's, of course.

I can't count the French Resistance.

They did not exist until they were organized by the British SOE. At all.

Yeah that was the main reason i didn't vote for them.

I'd certainly say Maos guerillas... but I'm slightly more shocked that you missed the prime example.

Rebel Alliance, anyone?

Cavity Creeps

I'd say the Afghan Mujahideen. They had defended Afghanistan from countless invasions many many times. First, they appeared fighting off the British Invasion of Afghanistan. Then they fought back numerous internal conflicts. Then they fought off the Soviet Union(Afghanistan was the U.S.S.R.s Vietnam), and then fought the American Army, and although they didn't win, they still put up a helluva fight.
I second that.

The problem with the Afghans is that they would not have beaten the Soviets without substantial outside help.

They are essentially powerless against the US at this point.

It's hard to vote for the Viet Cong. Since I count the North Vietnamese Army as a separate, non-guerilla force, I note that history counts the Viet Cong as nearly ceasing to exist after their expenditure during the Tet Offensive.

After that, only the NVA could effectively "win".

Of course, it helps greatly that the American public wimps out.

The problem with the Afghans is that they would not have beaten the Soviets without substantial outside help.

Yeah, but the VC wouldn't have beat the U.S. if it hadn't recieved alot of weapons from the U.S.S.R. and China.

The Monkees.

Ancient: Scythians
Historical: Either Spain's guerrilleros of the The Peninsular War, Mosby's Partisan Rangers (American Civil War), or Geronimo.
Modern: The CPC, followed closely by the NLF

Mao's On Guerrilla Warfare (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/) is the book.

The Americans were not, by and large, guerillas. They fought mostly in open, set piece battles. So they're out.

Actually, that's not exactly true. Sure, in the later half of the war we fought mostly on open ground, but during the early part if we had done than more than once or twice we woulda los tht war easy. The reason we won was because our saboteurs blew up British Supply bases, our snipers picked off their leaders, our ambushes took British supplies, and whenever we engaged in an actual battle we ALWAYS choose the best ground to fit our needs. However, after Valley Forge, we turned into more of a "real" army.

I'm still wondering why you didn't put the Chinese revolutionaries on there.

They didn't come to mind.

I'd certainly say Maos guerillas... but I'm slightly more shocked that you missed the prime example.

Rebel Alliance, anyone?

:::smacks Jordaxia upside the head with a 2x4:::

the IRA brought the British army to its knees in 1921 and got an independent Ireland...bit of an achievement

Magilla Gorilla.

Oh...sorry...I have problems with spelling...

Genghis Kahn's (Temujin) Mongolian Hordes.

"the IRA brought the British army to its knees in 1921 and got an independent Ireland...bit of an achievement "

The IRA have trained most of the newer guerilla armys like FAR'C and helped the PLO/Hammas/etc. with training in car bombs,mortars and many other forms of guerilla warfare. The past 9 new types of 'homemade' mortars were first used in Crossmaglenn, Co.Armagh, Ireland, the other was in Palestine.The IRA have won many victories, one the independance of the 26 counties in the free state, they have destroyed the unionist veto of Stormont and brought the british to the negotiating tables after Chanary Wharf, 1996.

With regards to the comment that the IRA cannot win this war, well its looking more and more likely that the IRA is going to return to war sooner rather than later due to the double dealings of the Unionists and Brits, then we will see the valour of the Irish Republican Army once again.

"the IRA brought the British army to its knees in 1921 and got an independent Ireland...bit of an achievement "

The IRA have trained most of the newer guerilla armys like FAR'C and helped the PLO/Hammas/etc. with training in car bombs,mortars and many other forms of guerilla warfare. The past 9 new types of 'homemade' mortars were first used in Crossmaglenn, Co.Armagh, Ireland, the other was in Palestine.The IRA have won many victories, one the independance of the 26 counties in the free state, they have destroyed the unionist veto of Stormont and brought the british to the negotiating tables after Chanary Wharf, 1996.

With regards to the comment that the IRA cannot win this war, well its looking more and more likely that the IRA is going to return to war sooner rather than later due to the double dealings of the Unionists and Brits, then we will see the valour of the Irish Republican Army once again.
yay for propaganda!

the IRA brought the British army to its knees in 1921 and got an independent Ireland...bit of an achievement

Not exactly, they were on the verge of being defeated and that was why Michael Collins had to sign over the north, but they did do an amazing job getting the south.
I voted for them because dispite the fact they didnt get a United Ireland though force they did give one of the most powerful armies of the time a kicking. Compare this to the viet cong (who were fighting against an army unused to jungle fighting) and you have a group that were fighting near constantly for nearly sixty years in the backgarden of the RIC/RUC and in terrain that should at least have been familiar to the British forces.

Genghis Kahn's (Temujin) Mongolian Hordes.

http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/others/costumed-smiley-089.gif Chengis' army wasn't anything near a guerrilla force.

e Lowland Gorillas of the mountains of Congo.

Endangered due to deforestation and poaching, these are really quite magnificent beasts-


What? Oh Guerillas!

Okay, well obviously Che and Fidel's force who overthrew Batista in Cuba, then Che and his group who went into Africa, and South America.

Mao's communist force (fought the Japanese in China WW2, then took power in China)

Tito's communist force (fought the Germans in Yugoslavia in WW2, then took power.

Crete Resistance (fought the Germans in WW2)

French Resistance: Took out German trains, cut communications in WW2. Any sniffing of snobbery at them is merely anti-French sentiments.

Viet Cong: Gave the French imperialists a kicking, then Gave a superpower a good beating, and were never spent, because Guerillas always recruit, recruit, recruit.

Afghan Mujhadeen: Same as above.

Hezbollah: A fierce and rather ruthless efficient outfit, that inflicted bloody casualties on Israeli forces in Lebanon.

Iraqi Resistance: Two years on, and seemingly growing stronger.

Nepal Communist forces: opposed to Nepal's monarchy, they are growing stronger and have blockaded the capital twice since declaring people's war in 1996.

FARC: 40 years and still growing strong, literally running a part of Columbia.

IRA: Brought the British to the negotiating table through perserverance in battle.

Hamas: Their tactics are crude, but then again, they don't have tanks or planes, as pointed out by a spokesman.

Algerian Liberation Front: Wore the French down, by destroying morale through persistent, professional guerrila warfare.

The Spanish Gurillas during the panisular war.

Not exactly, they were on the verge of being defeated and that was why Michael Collins had to sign over the north, but they did do an amazing job getting the south.

Yea, but it was the British who proposed a ceasefire first

I miss Tito and the EAM as poll options.

I should add the SAS and SOE to my list too.

How about:

Lawrence of Arabia, and the Arab Tribes

The Viet Minh (precursers of the Viet Cong in French Indochina)

The indigenous people of North America (American Indians), in particular Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce. They fought not only against huge manpower odds, but across centuries of technology.

The Soviet Revolutionaries in 1917

The Vikings

Oops! have to get back to work...

How about:

Lawrence of Arabia, and the Arab Tribes

The Viet Minh (precursers of the Viet Cong in French Indochina)

The indigenous people of North America (American Indians), in particular Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce. They fought not only against huge manpower odds, but across centuries of technology.

The Soviet Revolutionaries in 1917

The Vikings

Oops! have to get back to work...


Good choices.

I should add the SAS and SOE to my list too.

Nope.

Chindits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or Australians on the Kakoda trail

Nope.

SAS were a British Guerilla force attacking behind enemy lines in WW2, in North Africa. The SAS today evolved from there.

The SOE carried out attacks behind enemy lines in occupied France and I think Holland.


ANZAC too. In Burma.

none are great MOSES is the greatest THOU shalt not kill :) :sniper:

Cuban Revolutionaries led by Che Gueverra and Fidel Castro, because they have their own video game. No other revolutionaries star in video games. Therefore, Che and Fidel are the best. Also, they have unlimited grenades.

Either the Mongol Hordes or the Huns. A running battle between the two would have been interesting, if anachronistic.

IF they had done nothing we would still be free independant ireland cannot be won with military guerilla warfare you must awaken the political conscience of the people therefore
remember the famine 3 million
not remember 1916 i think therefore i am
moses said thou shalt not kill

gandi did it
mandela did it
sinn fein cant do it
the indigineous peo :fluffle: ple can

I should add the Chechens too. Videoing themselves attacking Russian Tanks and helicopters.

SAS were a British Guerilla force attacking behind enemy lines in WW2, in North Africa. The SAS today evolved from there.

The SOE carried out attacks behind enemy lines in occupied France and I think Holland.

ANZAC too. In Burma.

The SAS, SOE, and ANZACs were regular military SOFs, NOT guerrillas.

Either the Mongol Hordes or the Huns. A running battle between the two would have been interesting, if anachronistic.

Again, those were regular militaries, not guerrillas.

IF they had done nothing we would still be free independant ireland cannot be won with military guerilla warfare you must awaken the political conscience of the people therefore
remember the famine 3 million
not remember 1916 i think therefore i am
moses said thou shalt not kill

gandi did it
mandela did it
sinn fein cant do it
the indigineous peo :fluffle: ple can


Ghandi won because the British were bankrupt after WW2 and could not run India anymore anyway.

Mandela carried out guerrilla actions against a disgusting regime. That's why he was jailed. He is a hero.

Either the Mongol Hordes or the Huns. A running battle between the two would have been interesting, if anachronistic.

....

Except for hte Mongol Hordes and the Huns were 2 of the most well trained horseback armies of all time, that defeated all enemies that were thrown at them(except for the Huns couldn't defeat the Romans and the Mongols the Japs.)

The SAS, SOE, and ANZACs were regular military SOFs, NOT guerrillas.


Disagreed. They were unconventional in their methods and carried out actions in non conventional military warfare.

Hence, Guerillas.

I should add the Chechens too. Videoing themselves attacking Russian Tanks and helicopters.

Yep. The various Chechen guerrillas may be some of the nastiest guerrillas currently operating.

mandela is just a figure head peace is his war cry with political activism his weapon
and reasoning that india fell because of financial difficulties within the empire ignores gandhis pacifism and popularity and to this day central figure within politics in india

freeedom from oppression its not arrived in ireland yet pp or no :confused: ;)

Yep. The various Chechen guerrillas may be some of the nastiest guerrillas currently operating.

Totally. But the Russian 'SPETNAZ' are equally nasty, it has to be said.

Human rights abuses on both sides.

Disagreed. They were unconventional in their methods and carried out actions in non conventional military warfare.

Hence, Guerillas.

Nope. Unconventional members of the regulart military are SOF operators. Guerrillas are not members of a regular military force.

Totally. But the Russian 'SPETNAZ' are equally nasty, it has to be said.

Human rights abuses on both sides.

All true.

mandela is just a figure head peace is his war cry with political activism his weapon
and reasoning that india fell because of financial difficulties within the empire ignores gandhis pacifism and popularity and to this day central figure within politics in india

freeedom from oppression its not arrived in ireland yet pp or no :confused: ;)

I agree, Ghandi was an excellent fellow for his pacifism and popularity internationally, however, his peaceful victory was achieved through the British pulling out from the not being able to 'run' India anymore through financial constraints.

If the British had been able to afford it, they would still have been there today. Ghandi would have been pushed aside by more militant people with a view to end British rule.

Instead, they pulled out of their colonies through lack of Finances to run them.

Only an armed uprising would have got them out of India if financial difficulties were not the case.

Eg Iraq 1920.

Nope. Unconventional members of the regulart military are SOF operators. Guerrillas are not members of a regular military force.

Ok.

....

Except for hte Mongol Hordes and the Huns were 2 of the most well trained horseback armies of all time, that defeated all enemies that were thrown at them(except for the Huns couldn't defeat the Romans and the Mongols the Japs.)

Being well trained does not exclude them from being Guerilla forces. Their military tactics were the forerunners of modern guerilla warfare.
By the way, Atilla and co. sacked Rome, so not even the Romans could resist them. The roman armies may have been able to beat the huns if they had not been to busy fighting each other for power, but we shall never know.

Being well trained does not exclude them from being Guerilla forces. Their military tactics were the forerunners of modern guerilla warfare.
By the way, Atilla and co. sacked Rome, so not even the Romans could resist them. The roman armies may have been able to beat the huns if they had not been to busy fighting each other for power, but we shall never know.

The Huns and Mongels were regular forces. Tactics and training have nothing to do with it. The impitus, manner, and organization have much more to do with being guerrillas. The German tribes could arguably be called guerrillas. But neither the mHuns nor the Mongels could, in any fashion.

Yeah, but the VC wouldn't have beat the U.S. if it hadn't recieved alot of weapons from the U.S.S.R. and China.
which is not even to mention the training they recieved from US agents during World War II, back when we liked them. Ho Chi Minh, in particular.My vote goes to the Vietminh, as you really can includ ethe vietcong in their numbers, and that way they aren't fucked after Tet, when they still have about 7 years of war left.

I would say the best guerilla forces include the:
National Front for the Liberation of Southern Vietnam (VietCong)
Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
26th of July Movement (Cuban revolutionaries)
African National Congress (ANC)

I would say the best guerilla forces include the:
National Front for the Liberation of Southern Vietnam (VietCong)
Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
26th of July Movement (Cuban revolutionaries)
African National Congress (ANC)Completely forgot about Castro's Cuban revolutionaries! And there's a group of Guerillas who took over the country.

Viet Cong

If the British had been able to afford it, they would still have been there today. Ghandi would have been pushed aside by more militant people with a view to end British rule.

Only an armed uprising would have got them out of India if financial difficulties were not the case.

Eg Iraq 1920.
Germany was medling in India during WWII using Propoganda to try and get them to switch sides for independence.

Britian were back in Iraq during WWII

Vietcongs

french and cubans rule

And one more that should be mentioned is King Kong and friends from Skull Island.

dp

I'd say the Afghan Mujahideen. They had defended Afghanistan from countless invasions many many times. First, they appeared fighting off the British Invasion of Afghanistan. Then they fought back numerous internal conflicts. Then they fought off the Soviet Union(Afghanistan was the U.S.S.R.s Vietnam), and then fought the American Army, and although they didn't win, they still put up a helluva fight.
Do you have any examples of this "helluva fight" that they put up against the US? The US rolled over them with very few casualties.

Germany was medling in India during WWII using Propoganda to try and get them to switch sides for independence.


Ghandi and his movement did not come from German propoganda, but a view held long before the existence of Nazi Germany of a independent India.

Ghandi was not a pupet for the Germans


Britian were back in Iraq during WWII

Not for long. They had learnt not to stick around.

Whether they do this time, is another matter.

If I am to be pragmatic...I must say the greatest Guerrillero ever is the Che.

and if I am to choose the most effective group...I must say the 9-11 dozen that took down the WTC,

they have changed the World, we are no longer the land of the Brave (we dont feel very safe anymore) we are no longer the Land of the Free(patriot act)....

and most important...for most of the World...we are no longer the "good" guys...
US and the others...there is a deep rift now...

All in all...thay may have disallowed the birth of the "New American Century"...The greatest military power EVER....has been sent in a selfDestroying spree...

"the IRA brought the British army to its knees in 1921 and got an independent Ireland...bit of an achievement "

The IRA have trained most of the newer guerilla armys like FAR'C and helped the PLO/Hammas/etc. with training in car bombs,mortars and many other forms of guerilla warfare. The past 9 new types of 'homemade' mortars were first used in Crossmaglenn, Co.Armagh, Ireland, the other was in Palestine.The IRA have won many victories, one the independance of the 26 counties in the free state, they have destroyed the unionist veto of Stormont and brought the british to the negotiating tables after Chanary Wharf, 1996.

If anything the Provos' return to active military activity after their 1994 ceasefire delayed the negotiations rather then forced the hand of the British.

With regards to the comment that the IRA cannot win this war, well its looking more and more likely that the IRA is going to return to war sooner rather than later due to the double dealings of the Unionists and Brits, then we will see the valour of the Irish Republican Army once again.

You seem to have completely glossed over the differences between the old IRA and the Provos.

IF they had done nothing we would still be free independant ireland cannot be won with military guerilla warfare you must awaken the political conscience of the people therefore
remember the famine 3 million
not remember 1916 i think therefore i am
moses said thou shalt not kill

gandi did it
mandela did it
sinn fein cant do it
the indigineous peo :fluffle: ple can

Ignoring the facts that Mandela was head of the military wing of the ANC, and that even as late as 1985 was given the chance to be released from prison if he renounced armed struggle, are we?

Irish Republican Army no question.