NationStates Jolt Archive

C4 lines up Guantánamo-style torture show

Channel 4 is to broadcast what it is styling a Guantánamo Bay-style reality show that will examine the effects of mild torture on seven male volunteers.
The Guantánamo Guidebook will recreate some of the practices used at the US naval base where hundreds of so-called "enemy combatants" have been held without trial or access to lawyers for nearly three years.

Using an east London warehouse and declassified internal documents obtained from US sources, programme-makers mocked up conditions as they are inside Guantánamo, before subjecting seven volunteers to some of the milder forms of torture alleged to have been used by US authorities.

The programme exposed the volunteers, three of whom are Muslim, to 48 hours of "torture lite" including sleep deprivation, the use of extreme temperatures and "mild" physical contact.

As at Guantánamo and more vividly in Abu Ghraib, the volunteers were also subject to periods of enforced nudity and religious and sexual humiliation.

The seven male volunteers, one of whom withdrew after just seven hours suffering from hypothermia, were recruited initially by adverts asking how "hard" they were.

...http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1407814,00.html

So, anyway, I think this sounds great and should be well worth watching... or at least it's a funny idea.

i love channel 4

they're always pushing the boundaries of tv

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1407814,00.html

So, anyway, I think this sounds great and should be well worth watching... or at least it's a funny idea.
Try to see Das Experiment too, if you haven't already seen it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250258/

Wow, channel 4 are pretty cool. I Just wish they'd stop pushing big brother.

i love channel 4

they're always pushing the boundaries of tv

Yeah. It's a shame that they never actually push the bondaries into areas worth watching.

Reminds of the Stamford Experiment, when a college made 6 students role play prisoners and put them in cells, and the other 6 were made prison guards.

They stopped the experiment after a few days, because the guards started being cruel, they stopped thinking they were pretending, and took it seriously.

Das Experiment, the film, is based on that experiment.

Channel 4 did a sleep deprivation show, although it was let down.

Channel 5 did a touch the truck show, where people had to keep their hands on a truck for a week to win it.

Anyone watch the autopsies on channel 4? Awesome.

Anyone watch the autopsies on channel 4? Awesome.


Anatomy for beginners? Watched the first four, but not the last one, since it was just a compilation, apparently. Yeah, they were good. Gunther Van Hagen rules because of his hat, and the fact that he's German and gives people warnings. (ze heart, I must say, it looks qvite... vonderful, so be varned.)

He should have his own talk show, where he performs dissections whilst interview guests. That would rule.

I hope they do a celebrity version

Anatomy for beginners? Watched the first four, but not the last one, since it was just a compilation, apparently. Yeah, they were good. Gunther Van Hagen rules because of his hat, and the fact that he's German and gives people warnings. (ze heart, I must say, it looks qvite... vonderful, so be varned.)

He should have his own talk show, where he performs dissections whilst interview guests. That would rule.

Yeah, he rocks. I watched them all, not the compilation though. I watched the one that was on a couple of years ago as well.

(zis is ze teztickle, and ze vill make ze incision now, and zen twist it)

The hat rules.

I hope they do a celebrity version

of Anatomy for beginners? Me too, preferably when they are still alive.

of Anatomy for beginners? Me too, preferably when they are still alive.actually i meant the torture thing but your idea sounds just as good

Reminds of the Stamford Experiment, when a college made 6 students role play prisoners and put them in cells, and the other 6 were made prison guards.

They stopped the experiment after a few days, because the guards started being cruel, they stopped thinking they were pretending, and took it seriously.


is that like the Zimbardo experiment into obediance to authority?

actually i meant the torture thing but your idea sounds just as good

Yep, the torture of celebrities, that could be a pay per view event.

At least it would be better than those crap reality shows the American media turns out.

Sounds like a trashy, commercialised revisit of the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Yep, the torture of celebrities, that could be a pay per view event.
*dreams of Linda Barker on the rack*

So when will a copycat show be on US TV?

Well... this "sounds" like an interesting concept for the reality TV genre, and I'd be interested to see how many American companies advertize their wares during the commercial breaks. :)

The trouble is: how far before we go too far? How far between Guantánamo Guidebook and The Running Man? And don't comfort yourselves with "yeah, but that's science fiction!" because so was man flying, man visiting the heavens, and man investigating the deep sea.

And so was 1984...

of Anatomy for beginners? Me too, preferably when they are still alive.

First victim is Jamie Oliver.

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1407814,00.html

So, anyway, I think this sounds great and should be well worth watching... or at least it's a funny idea.
Only in the UK? You having a laugh? This kind of thing is the staple material of primetime TV in Japan!!

Well... this "sounds" like an interesting concept for the reality TV genre, and I'd be interested to see how many American companies advertize their wares during the commercial breaks. :)

The trouble is: how far before we go too far? How far between Guantánamo Guidebook and The Running Man? And don't comfort yourselves with "yeah, but that's science fiction!" because so was man flying, man visiting the heavens, and man investigating the deep sea.

And so was 1984...

And so was Star Tre... wait, not really the same thing.

People seem to be willing to watch whatever they're told to watch these days, not really so much what they want to watch. I think the host of the Running Man said something like that, actually...

I cant beleive the amout of crap they put on C4.

Linda barker on the rack......yes....yes......because...."actually, it works really, really well!"

and Jamie Oliver..."Sausage and Mash the good old london way me cherub, even if I'm not from London, and I dribble and spit all over my food."

The Duke of Edinburgh said "There's nothing but filth on Channel 4"

He knows because he watches it....probably.

More celebrities needed for the rack!

I cant beleive the amout of crap they put on C4.

I can't believe the crap they put on all the channels. And I have Freeview...

I cant believe the amout of crap they put on C4.
At least they put on.. what's the word... NEW stuff, not an endless string of repeats. And just think: everything we label crap from our generation will be cult material for the next generation of arts students.

Anyway, BBC2 got 'Jerry Springer: The Opera'. Televisual sewage distribution is not reserved for C4

Anyway, BBC2 got 'Jerry Springer: The Opera'.


Which was brilliant.

I can't believe the crap crap they put on all the channels. And I have Freeview...
it's not all crap! there's Bid-up TV!

Anyway, BBC2 got 'Jerry Springer: The Opera'. Televisual sewage distribution is not reserved for C4


to me, complaining about Jerry Springer: The Opera, is kinda like complaining about Springtime for Hitler. It being the way it is is kinda the whole point. it's not supposed to be high class/quality, just... a mick take.

it's not all crap! there's Bid-up TV!

I'd watch that, if I could bear it. But it's like the office. It makes me cringe with pain, made all the worse by it being real, and not a comedy.

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1407814,00.html

So, anyway, I think this sounds great and should be well worth watching... or at least it's a funny idea.
that's channel 4 for you. at least they showed farenheit 9/11...

it's not all crap! there's Bid-up TV!

Ah yes, and Cbeebies...

is that like the Zimbardo experiment into obediance to authority?
It is the one and the same. Because it was done at Stanford, it's often called the Stanford Prison experiment.
http://www.prisonexp.org/

This one and Milgram's experiment where they wired a subject to an electric chair and had another give him shocks until he 'dies' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) are the only ones I can remember clearly from the social pysch papers I did years ago. Wish we could do experiments like these now.

Which was brilliant.
I was going for the degree of offence argument. Even I don't find the need to use that many expletives in two hours.

to me, complaining about Jerry Springer: The Opera, is kinda like complaining about Springtime for Hitler. It being the way it is is kinda the whole point. it's not supposed to be high class/quality, just... a mick take.
So that's why the man himself didn't endorse it. I thought the funniest part of the fiasco was when BBC2 bosses were saying "we're showing it because it's a brilliant piece of high class art". Quite...

So that's why the man himself didn't endorse it. I thought the funniest part of the fiasco was when BBC2 bosses were saying "we're showing it because it's a brilliant piece of high class art". Quite...


Eh, if I'd even bothered to look into the argument at all, I'd be better informed. As it stands, you have my blissfully ignorant view on the whole situation. Some might call it a poor point to debate from. But the uninformed ones are always more amusing. I'll continue to look at it as, to use the analogy again, a real world springtime for Hitler, because that's what it reminds me of most.

Of course, if the East London warehouse is the same one where they film Teletubbies, I'm not at all surprised one of them only lasted 7 hours.
Imagine being stripped naked, blindfolded and chained in a kneeling position on a cold concrete floor and being forced to hear:
Naughty noo-noos!
over and over again. It'd break the toughest man.

Eh, if I'd even bothered to look into the argument at all, I'd be better informed. As it stands, you have my blissfully ignorant view on the whole situation. Some might call it a poor point to debate from. But the uninformed ones are always more amusing. I'll continue to look at it as, to use the analogy again, a real world springtime for Hitler, because that's what it reminds me of most.
sorry, wasn't being sarky at all. The whole thing was a great source of amusement. I didn't even watch the show. I was only slightly put out by the fact that Jerry Springer took up an entire four hours (I think. was it longer?) of airwaves.

Haven't watched SfH either. I'll put it on my to-watch list.

The Stanford Prison experiment and the electric shock experiment were really something. What is it about humans that lead us to feel like we have to look/act like our peers? Ever since reading about those last semester, I've tried to make a conscious effort to think for myself.

Those two experiments led me to the following conclusion: The difference between man and animal is not so much that man makes decisions concerning his actions (actions are fairly easy to predict when it is a matter following or leading, because man rarely chooses to lead, and animals make similar decisions), but rather his ability to reflect on what he has done.

As far as the television shows you're talking about go, :rolleyes:. They sound pretty interesting, but I'd rather not support that sort of thing. Someone sounds like an attention whore to me :D.

sorry, wasn't being sarky at all. The whole thing was a great source of amusement. I didn't even watch the show. I was only slightly put out by the fact that Jerry Springer took up an entire four hours (I think. was it longer?) of airwaves.

Haven't watched SfH either. I'll put it on my to-watch list.


First point: oh. Damn internet, makes it difficult to recognise sarcasm.

Second point: SfH is in the movie the producers, by Mel Brooks, though I've heard it was made into a play in its own right? It might just be the producers that was made into a play, but I can't remember.
I'll avoid detailing it at all, because it's best watched knowing nothing about it.

It is the one and the same. Because it was done at Stanford, it's often called the Stanford Prison experiment.
http://www.prisonexp.org/

Yep, agreed.


This one and Milgram's experiment where they wired a subject to an electric chair and had another give him shocks until he 'dies' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) are the only ones I can remember clearly from the social pysch papers I did years ago. Wish we could do experiments like these now.

You'll be delighted to hear they do at Guantanamo, along with various middle east regimes.

Second point: SfH is in the movie the producers, by Mel Brooks
d'oh, stupid me *puts on suitably ashamed face*

I was going for the degree of offence argument. Even I don't find the need to use that many expletives in two hours.


But some do.

Also a programme should not be judged on the use of swear words, but it's content within, which I thought was interesting.

The Stanford Prison experiment and the electric shock experiment were really something. What is it about humans that lead us to feel like we have to look/act like our peers? Ever since reading about those last semester, I've tried to make a conscious effort to think for myself.

Those two experiments led me to the following conclusion: The difference between man and animal is not so much that man makes decisions concerning his actions (actions are fairly easy to predict when it is a matter following or leading, because man rarely chooses to lead, and animals make similar decisions), but rather his ability to reflect on what he has done.
It's one of the more interesting parts of Behavioural Pysch (and one they don't like to mention) is that few, if any, of Skinner's experiments work on humans. We try too damn hard to rationalise our actions. So while a pigeon soon works out that it gets feed every 10 minutes, or every 100th tap or whatever, us humans come up with all sorts of bullshit like saying you need to tap the button slow for so many times, then fast, then slow again etc etc.

Regarding experiments related to us conforming, another very good one (because of the infamous Kitty Genovese slaying) was when they had people feign heart-attacks and fall over in a busy city street. Unsurprisingly, no-one came to their aid, except when a fellow subject approached them first. Then nearly everyone stopped to help. We all suffer from the fear of being the first, in case we're wrong.

The problem with reading these experiments is that you have the tendancy to think "I'd never be like that, especially now. Forewarned is forearmed." But it's highly likely that you won't realise you're in such a situation until after it's occurred.

Also a programme should not be judged on the use of swear words, but it's content within, which I thought was interesting.
True (see: The Sopranos). I can't comment on it's non-profanity content as I didn't see it. Was it an opera(i.e. was it performed in italian by classically trained musicians)? Or was it more a musical? Wouldn't have had the same ring really.

"Tonight Only. Jerry Springer: The Musical"

You'll be delighted to hear they do at Guantanamo, along with various middle east regimes.
I meant pysch experiments, not the real thing!
Also I really meant experiments where we don't have to tell the subjects before hand exactly what is going to happen. Milgram's experiments were before the code of conduct, and so he was able to fool the subjects into genuinely thinking they were giving real shocks, and had possibly killed the other subject (which would have been incredibly stressful and upsetting for them).
Now of course, this isn't allowed. Yet look how valuable this research has been. It wouldn't have happened if the subjects had known as to the true purpose of the experiment.
I think fooling the subjects has benefits, in that we can truly see how people operate and act.

I meant pysch experiments, not the real thing!
Also I really meant experiments where we don't have to tell the subjects before hand exactly what is going to happen. Milgram's experiments were before the code of conduct, and so he was able to fool the subjects into genuinely thinking they were giving real shocks, and had possibly killed the other subject (which would have been incredibly stressful and upsetting for them).
Now of course, this isn't allowed. Yet look how valuable this research has been. It wouldn't have happened if the subjects had known as to the true purpose of the experiment.
I think fooling the subjects has benefits, in that we can truly see how people operate and act.

I understand your viewpoint, but Nazis said the same in their experiments. And Dr Frankenstein. ;)

True (see: The Sopranos). I can't comment on it's non-profanity content as I didn't see it. Was it an opera(i.e. was it performed in italian by classically trained musicians)? Or was it more a musical? Wouldn't have had the same ring really.

"Tonight Only. Jerry Springer: The Musical"

The Sopranos is a brilliant example, agreed.

The show was singing all the way through, in a operatic style, with solos, duets and group opera style singing, commenting on today's society and etc, and was celeverly done to the extent the F word sounds rather elegant when sang in opera style.

Give it a go.

I'd go on the show if they were going to have women in thongs rubbing themselves on me.

How about a fat man in nappies (Diapers to Americans) playing Jesus?

I saw 1 programe on sleep deprevation it was good
Guy was given a paintball gun and tried to shoot the baddies things is he shot everything MWhahahahahahhahaha

The show was singing all the way through, in a operatic style, with solos, duets and group opera style singing, commenting on today's society and etc, and was cleverly done to the extent the F word sounds rather elegant when sang in opera style.

Give it a go.
I can do that...

*gives rendition of new SOAD song, operatic style*
*is thrown from lab and stoned*

dag'nabbit