NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo85.html

did you see this article in the american conservative?

hunger for dictatorship: war to export democracy may wreck our own (http://www.amconmag.com/2005_02_14/article.html)
by scott mcconnell

check out TheyFly.Com

It's as plain as the ears on Shrub's wee little head. And has been for decades.

Hello, America. This is your alarm call.

I give this thread "two bumps up"

Bump

Another to follow...

Wasn't there a guy here who was the administrator of the American Facist Movements forum?

Wasn't there a guy here who was the administrator of the American Facist Movements forum?
I dunno if he is the admin, but he's trying to recruit.

If you want to know what Fascism is then why dont you stop reading the Lew Rockwell shit and visit this site www.americanfascistmovement.com

Also I am the moderator of the AFM Forum www.fascismforum.com

I will say this only once. America is NOT a Fascist State in any way whatsoever. America is a Democracy. Please dont use the word 'Fascist' unless you know what it is.
Corporatism was a way to organise Capitalism and distribute the wealth more evenly. Also Corporatism seeks to create 'class colaboration' and therefore have the whole country working together to enhance the nation.

Ask us in more detail on the AFM board.

American isn't a democracy, it's a republic.

*shrug*

Besides, I think it is displaying some early signs of facism, such as scary staunch patriotism and the wanton disregard for the sovereign rights of other nations in the name of military dominance and power.

Fascism Anyone? (http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm) - the 14 characteristics of fascism

The empire is approaching fascism, but it is far from it right now. I'm still alive, afterall. Still, the threat of fascism is real and Bush could well set the stage for it.

The empire is approaching fascism, but it is far from it right now. I'm still alive, afterall. Still, the threat of fascism is real and Bush could well set the stage for it.

Give it time. It'll happen.

Facists....Sad, sad people.

Ony thing thats worse than facists are people that voted for Bush, if you can count those people seperately.

Seriously :rolleyes: Dude :rolleyes:

What I've learned so far in post-9/11 America, a whole lot of people are very willing to sacrifice their liberties just to gain a little more security.
Or, as O' Rourke put it "Giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." :p

Sorry, I didn't see this topic earlier.
I'll just post my original post here as well...
14 signs of Facism and descriptions from http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm
Comments from myself.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-19/110499805517220.xml
Party loyalty over loyalty to veterans… hmmm…
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3495709,00.html
But… what about the 1st Amendment???
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/10730858.htm
More xenophobia

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11866177%255E1702,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51726-2005Jan5.html
2 versions of the same story. Any reason why this isn’t making front page news?
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/31/usint10091.htm
Bush hampering the efforts to prosecute Darfur war criminals.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=589&u=/ap/20050127/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_sex_vs_faith_2&printer=1
Torture in Guantanamo Bay
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12096767%255E1702,00.html
More torture
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17350&c=206
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/26/iraq10053.htm
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20050125/ts_nm/iraq_rights_dc
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-horton20jan20,0,2436713.story
I’m not even going to summarize this- too sickening


3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/02/020105kyMurd.htm
Discrimination against gays
http://www.thewgalchannel.com/education/4139721/detail.html
Err… what? Isn’t that every day?
http://www.worldaheadpublishing.com/
So now, liberals are the scapegoats?
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/25/national2141EST0795.DTL
Discrimination against gays…

And I’m not even going to get into anti-Muslim discrimination…


4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/
Considering ‘death squads’ in Iraq
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4153541/detail.html
“It’s fun to shoot people”? WHAT?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&e=4&u=/afp/20050202/ts_afp/usweaponsnuclear_050202062221
Why in the world do we need more nuclear weapons?
Link (http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/23/national/nationalspecial3/23code.html&OQ=hpQ26exQ3D1106542800Q26enQ3D29e9f1e02da990f2Q26eiQ3D5094Q26partnerQ3Dhomepage&OP=31d8c24e/3vQ26Q273JTNHQ5DTT,Q513Q51Q3DQ3DW3Q3D}3Q51Q203bF,!TbF83bF,!TbF8H6Q26N!F8Q203Q51Q20NTJQ26kw,I8)
You have to register for free- sorry
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/23/pentagon.intel/index.html
Not even going to get into this…
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=4&article_id=8536
Destruction of archaeological treasures


5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2003%2049ap.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6853606/
Rep. Thomas (Republican, such a surprise) now mentions that women (the same group which has historically earned 69 cents versus the dollar earned by men) may now be considered to receive less Social Security benefits, because they live longer.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+ful+HB1677
So, a woman can get arrested for having a miscarriage and failing to report it?

And I’m not even going to get into abortion.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/01/death.benefits.ap/index.html
Err… when did Bush do that? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050121/us_nm/arms_congress_benefits_dc&e=1
Response to earlier link
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=6&u=/ap/20050126/ap_on_go_co/senate_gonzales
Guess how many times the word ‘torture’ is used? 0
The AP story begins by reporting the partisan split that advanced Gonzales despite Democratic complaints that he is too close to President Bush!
http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/01/03/daily9.html?page=1
They lost the suit, because apparently, Fox has the right to lie.
http://www.ppipes.org/?q=node/4790
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000779345
(Not enough time to summarize those two.)
And why isn’t the media reporting the rest of this front page?


7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39127374,00.htm
Am I the only one who thinks this is sick?
http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html
What about the First Amendment?
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1106349012240
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16499-2005Jan17.html?sub=AR
(Not enough time to summarize.)

And does anyone remember the Patriot Act?

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
http://www.acsblog.org/news-and-announcements-620-6th-circuit-says-relying-on-the-bible-in-sentencing-is-okay.html
http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html&OQ=hpQ26exQ3D1107234000Q26enQ3D7a252186c42f888aQ26eiQ3D5094Q26partnerQ3Dhomepage&OP=513d7fe1/vk)Nvx5sf~55y0v0{{dv{0v{Q5Evfs()Q5Cs)v{Q5E)Q3D5LYynh
(Register for free)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050115-3.html
Throwing a bone to the Christian right…
http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/011905/ross.html
(See the second article- the one after “Ross will not run for governor.”)
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/110578420462860.xml
Quote: Parker said Thomas told him a judge should be evaluated by whether he faithfully upholds his oath to God, not to the people, to the state or to the Constitution.
What about separation of Church and State?
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050111-101004-3771r.htm
Quote: President Bush said yesterday that he doesn't "see how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord,"

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6791950/
Cough… privatizing social security…
And remember all the restrictions lifted from corporations.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=admin/registration/login&destination=login&nextstep=gather&application=reg30-politics&applicationURL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36738-2005Jan25.html
(Register for free.)
Am I the only one who finds this sickening?

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
http://www.counterpunch.org/shahid12292004.html
http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/01/27/20050127-C1-04.html
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_24
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050126/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/aids_whistleblower&e=1

I’m not even going to get into evolution and global warming, as well as cutting the science budget while finding money for “Toddler Rock” programs. Oh, I did get into it- oh well, too late.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
Anyone remember the Andrea Yates trial? Scott Peterson trial? Kobe Bryant trial? And now the Michael Jackson trial? And why are shows like “CSI” so popular?

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/01/27/as_texas_judge_gonzales_heard_donors_cases/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6857224/site/newsweek/
See the 34 Bush scandals from my earlier post.


14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Remember 2000? Remember 2002? Remember 2004? It will happen 2006 and 2008 if we don’t act now!

P.S. I am NOT saying the US is facist. What I am saying is that it appears that the US is on the past towards becoming a facist nation. Its a big difference.

:eek:
Mega page-breaks of doom!!!

:eek:
Mega page-breaks of doom!!!

Fixed.

Or, as O' Rourke put it "Giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." :p
Do you know if PJ calls himself a Republican any more, since they have dropped any pretense of being a small-government party at this stage?

Do you know if PJ calls himself a Republican any more, since they have dropped any pretense of being a small-government party at this stage?
clickey (http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/pj-o'rourke.html)

American isn't a democracy, it's a republic.


America is a democracy. It's called a Democratic Republic aka Representative Democracy. It's a country by the people, for the people, and of the people, hence a democracy.

I give this thread "two bumps up"

Bump

Another to follow...

Bump two.

No more to follow...

There is no such thing as "economic fascism". What those Libertarian, Mises worshipping loons refer to as economic fascism is called, in more sane circles, Keynsian economics.

Fascism is a way in which the ruling class keeps power when everything goes to hell, when the working class movements are very strong and actually threaten capitalist power, etc. That's not the only way it comes into being (America today: case in point), but it's been the major one throughout history. Fascism is a form of capitalism in which the ruling classes abandon and semblance or pretense of democracy they one had, and rule through murder, torture, and openly terroristic dictatorship. It can be a slightly controlled Keynsian economy like Mussolini's Italy, or a free market nightmare like Pinochet. That's entirely incidental. What's most important is that the original ruling classes keep power by any means necessary, and whether that means neo-liberal economics or a mild welfare state is really dependant on the situation in question.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Butler.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Butler.html
Yes, that's a fascinating point in US history.

America is a democracy. It's called a Democratic Republic aka Representative Democracy. It's a country by the people, for the people, and of the people, hence a democracy.

Read the Federalist Papers.

I recommend It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis.

Sure it's fiction, but you can see the path.

Read the Federalist Papers.

Actually, America is a polity, which means a democracy with minority protection. At least the minority is protected in theory.

I doubt any one of you actualy looked at the American Fascist site. It's sad to hear such blatantly propagandized internalism from people who don't even know what their talking about. Look first and then decide you don't like it.

Heres my site, though I doubt anyone will even glance at it. www.freewebs.com/fascirevolutionary

To deny that America has Fascist groups, even strong elements of Fascism it its political body is just silly. However to suggest that they are the prime characteristic or driving force behind American politics is just as silly.

We have more problems with corruption of power than idealogical differences; though it may be easy to see them as the same thing.

Exactly.