NationStates Jolt Archive

So many people here are just pig ignorant when it comes to science and math (often by their own admission).

A thread on race last month has been bothering me in particular.

A certain poster argued adamantly for a scientific classification of human races in the face of numerous posters using science. His argument boiled down to (as I understand it) "I don't understand science becuase it hasn't been adequately explained to me!"

In light of all the poor understanding of science, what can be done to help explain science?

i wish i didnt have to take so much damn math

i wish i didnt have to take so much damn math

Why? If you really hate it, what can be done?

In my experience, science and maths in schools over here was very dry...not interesting at all, or relevant to people's lives in any way (What does the average 16 year old care about the structure of an atom, for example? When do they need to factorise an equation?). It depends on the teacher, I guess...but I can understand why people are disinterested.

When I asked GW about improving science and math education he sounded interested, but commented that he wasn't sure if he'd have the budget for all three.... :p

In my experience, science and maths in schools over here was very dry...not interesting at all, or relevant to people's lives in any way (What does the average 16 year old care about the structure of an atom, for example? When do they need to factorise an equation?). It depends on the teacher, I guess...but I can understand why people are disinterested.
True, the only reason that I continued Chemistry to GCSE was because I thought we might get to blow stuff up.

Which I admit was immature (but I was 13/14 at the time so it figures).

True, the only reason that I continued Chemistry to GCSE was because I thought we might get to blow stuff up.

Which I admit was immature (but I was 13/14 at the time so it figures).

(Heheh, Why only do it in school? I played with (a bit of) chemistry at home. Obviously, I didn't succeed in blowing myself up. :p EDIT- it was also safer to do on a program that my school had, which simulated the explosions when you mixed stuff together, heh. )

It's a shame, when the science gets interesting and really practical, it's elective and nobody wants to take it. What I really enjoyed about physics in my later years of high school was the fact that we could plan our own experiments. I built a catapult, and used an equation to accurately measure the speeds of the coins i would fire from it. That was cool- it was different, and fun, and I learned something. :)

(Though now i'm an arts student. Go figure.)

(Heheh, Why only do it in school? :p)

Because chemical suppliers won't sell to me :mad:

It's a shame, when the science gets interesting and really practical, it's elective and nobody wants to take it. What I really enjoyed about physics in my later years of high school was the fact that we could plan our own experiments. I built a catapult, and used an equation to accurately measure the speeds of the coins i would fire from it. That was cool- it was different, and fun, and I learned something. :)

Yay. I did the same thing for my A-level Physics coursework (well a bit different, it was a trebuchet).

In my experience, science and maths in schools over here was very dry...not interesting at all, or relevant to people's lives in any way (What does the average 16 year old care about the structure of an atom, for example? When do they need to factorise an equation?). It depends on the teacher, I guess...but I can understand why people are disinterested.

This is part of the problem. Both are important and interesting. The structure of the atom in particular is interesting. What (if anything) can be done to peak the interests of people like you?

perhaps if people stopped portraying math and science as the realm of the geeks and stopped trying to put warning stickers about evolution on biology textbooks, then people would stop being such idiots when it comes to science.

i don't know what it is, i'm a physics major myself and i love it, in highschool it was a bit borign admittedly, but they have to teach you that kind of boring crap so you have a proper foundation to deal with more complicated things. now i get to do classes on relativity. :) however, there is a lot of misunderstanding about say, the big bang.

and i'm somewhat amused by the fact that the people who say "well, perhaps it could work, but i don't know enough about it" tend to know more about a theory than those who sit there and say "no, it can't happen because (persents a part of a theory that is no longer part of the theory or is a complete misunderstanding on their part to begin with)"

This is part of the problem. Both are important and interesting. The structure of the atom in particular is interesting. What (if anything) can be done to peak the interests of people like you?
Show how we can blow things up. Seriously, not being sarcastic. Let us blow stuff up and explain why this happens (with regards to the atomic structure). Or maybe not blow things up. But I think experiments are the way to go (and I mean experiments more exiting then pouring salt into icy water). Unfortunetly I think experiments are an expensive way to teach so it might not be practical.

I think it worked for me, but I'm not sure. I became jaded with the way that Chemistry was taught after I found that we were lied to. The lies were easier to teach. I can see this as useful though, but the bad part about it was that the lies are only corrected if you took Chemistry A-level (which a small proportion of those that took it for GCSE), as a result you have thousands of school children with a false education in Chemistry.

Lies?
I took GSCE chemistry but am not taking A level but I don't think there were that many "lies". I know the shells of atoms was not right but even the teacher told us that, what other lies are there?

(I hate the way americans say "math" and not "maths")

Lies?
I took GSCE chemistry but am not taking A level but I don't think there were that many "lies". I know the shells of atoms was not right but even the teacher told us that, what other lies are there?

(I hate the way americans say "math" and not "maths")
The atom shell thing is the one I had in the front of my mind. (OK, maybe lies is a bit strong) there are a few more iirc, but I will have to ask someone else what they were. I didn't take A-level Chemistry so I didn't have to relearn them. When she comes on MSN I'll ask her.

Show how we can blow things up. Seriously, not being sarcastic. Let us blow stuff up and explain why this happens (with regards to the atomic structure). Or maybe not blow things up. But I think experiments are the way to go (and I mean experiments more exiting then pouring salt into icy water). Unfortunetly I think experiments are an expensive way to teach so it might not be practical.

I think it worked for me, but I'm not sure. I became jaded with the way that Chemistry was taught after I found that we were lied to. The lies were easier to teach. I can see this as useful though, but the bad part about it was that the lies are only corrected if you took Chemistry A-level (which a small proportion of those that took it for GCSE), as a result you have thousands of school children with a false education in Chemistry.

A lot to be said there. Not just in the blowing up department but in general hands on science education.

Rock on my elitist brethren Delenia.

(I hate the way americans say "math" and not "maths")

And I "hate" the way Brits say maths not math - and lorry, torch, and spanner as well. So there. ;)

(Hating dialects of ones own language is just plain stupid. Even more so than hating the clinal variations that get labled "race".)

And I "hate" the way Brits say maths not math - and lorry, torch, and spanner as well. So there. ;)

(Hating dialects of ones own language is just plain stupid. Even more so than hating the clinal variations that get labled "race".)

Like most things, those wankers are probably right. Mathematics is huge field of diverse studies, and woe to those who don't recognize that.

Color is still color, though.

Just because it sounds weird, doesn't mean it's not right.
(I could totally see a religioujs person using this arguement against me in the future, but oh well.)

In my experience, science and maths in schools over here was very dry...not interesting at all, or relevant to people's lives in any way (What does the average 16 year old care about the structure of an atom, for example? When do they need to factorise an equation?). It depends on the teacher, I guess...but I can understand why people are disinterested.

Why? Because you are made from them (atoms, not equations...), as is everything you see? How can that possibly not be relevant to your life? Surely only if you wish to remain locked into a primitive and immature picture of the world. Science is an attempt to describe understand reality, and it mystifies me that so many people can wish to remain ignorant and unaware of both they and the rest of the universe are, and how they work. I consider it a privilege to be in such a position to learn.

And as for factorising equations - true, it won't be of use to anyone who doesn't pursue maths or science further, but you have to expose people to the basics like that in order that they can make that decision, and so that they are prepared for it once they have.

I happen to be incredibly smart but still think the education of the sciences is pretty poor. We don't learn enough in school for what we should. My school offers honors programs but still, those are easy classes as well, in most cases easier than the general ones. This lack of education appalls me but then again I love to learn. Funny to hear that coming from a 16 year old, isn't it? Maybe my IQ has something to do with it? :)

Science needs to be made more relevant in several ways. I'm specifically referring to science before university here.

One is that there is often a severe lack of real experiments for students to do. Most often, students are presented with a list of instructions to do, which result in something they could have predicted in the beginning. What learning comes from something like that? Real experiments involve designing your own procedures, having to analyze your results to figure out what happened, and having actual error. But those labs are harder to teach given the amount of time a teacher has to teach the material.

Second way science needs to change is to make it more closely tied to what students will experience even if they don't major in science. While I find the structure of the atom quite fascinating, in reality it's not the most relevant thing to your daily life and ability to function in society. What I would *like* to see is a set of ideas that are all around us in the daily world, and use those to get at the underlying chemistry concepts. As opposed to starting with the concepts and thinking of interesting ways to explain them.

Students can learn how a battery works, why water expands when frozen, how perfumes work, all sorts of different ideas, but base the learning off of real world concepts as opposed to the theoretical things. There's actually a chemistry unit entitled "Living By Chemistry" that has the potential to be a great way to teach chemistry.

A lot to be said there. Not just in the blowing up department but in general hands on science education.
:eek: I would never blow up the science departement.

It is far too good a source for various chemicals :)

Experiments we did for Biology wery quite good too (cutting up hearts, kidneys [which are actually fairly disgusting] and breeding fruit flies [OK the only good thing about this one was that it introduced me to ether]).

However, physics experiments were a bit dry on the whole (except for the afore metioned trebuchet of course). Somehow I can not get excited about measuring the speed a pedulum swings at from various heights. But then again all the fun physics experiments could result in turning a section of the city into uninhabitable nuclear waste or are far too advanced for a school. I doubt many schools will have the resources to build a partical accelortor. I enjoyed physics anyway though.

I'm a returning student in America doing a math major (my husband is British so I say maths at home :)) and anthropology minor. I started out looking into why there's a gender gap in math education in elementary school and found out that there isn't a gap anymore. Instead, BOTH sexes are doing terribly in math in general. From what I've seen, it has alot to do with the fact that teachers at the elementary school level see math as too hard for kids so they don't bother teaching it. Another factor is that the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it. I've even had some tell me that they have 2nd graders ask questions they couldn't answer. To me, that's just not acceptable. There are schools in other states that don't teach subtraction to 1st graders because they don't think they can deal with it. In short, what I've found is that it's the education system's fault for not letting the students explore the concepts that interest them. They teach them the basics too slowly and even then they rely on memorization and don't illustrate WHY the numbers work like they do. That makes it boring for the kids and they don't WANT to learn any more. There are also studies being done at the moment that look into a relationship between delinquency and not teaching children enough (boredom in elementary school). The best advice I can give anyone with children at home is to teach them science and math at home in addition to what they get at school.

I think people see the areas studied within those subjects as irrelevant to them. I don't, I enjoy them because I find it interesting - and because I have a love of learning. :rolleyes: Sure you don't need to know why something happens - but you should want to... and if you don't I figure it's your loss...

People have so much done for them these days (myself included) that people care less about the world around them.

I figure GCSE sylabuses are always going to be boring if you don't want to learn what's in them, and if you want to learn you will - no matter how it's done!

However, physics experiments were a bit dry on the whole (except for the afore metioned trebuchet of course). Somehow I can not get excited about measuring the speed a pedulum swings at from various heights. But then again all the fun physics experiments could result in turning a section of the city into uninhabitable nuclear waste or are far too advanced for a school. I doubt many schools will have the resources to build a partical accelortor. I enjoyed physics anyway though.
when i was in highschool phyiscs, we got to play with giant slinkies to demonstrate wave motion (when i say giant, i mean it, like 4-5m long?) and we got to go out in the hall and create standing waves and pulses and longitudinal and transverse waves. it was good fun.

but yeah, the experiments haven't really got exciting for me until this year (i'm in third year) we measured the speed of light and planck's constant and the ratio of charge to mass of an electron... but then i'm the kid who got excited when things changed colours in chemistry labs.

(I hate the way americans say "math" and not "maths")
OMG 1 letter makes so much difference!!!111!! Go police another colony, :rolleyes:

This is part of the problem. Both are important and interesting. The structure of the atom in particular is interesting. What (if anything) can be done to peak the interests of people like you?


Why? Because you are made from them (atoms, not equations...), as is everything you see? How can that possibly not be relevant to your life? Surely only if you wish to remain locked into a primitive and immature picture of the world. Science is an attempt to describe understand reality, and it mystifies me that so many people can wish to remain ignorant and unaware of both they and the rest of the universe are, and how they work. I consider it a privilege to be in such a position to learn.

And as for factorising equations - true, it won't be of use to anyone who doesn't pursue maths or science further, but you have to expose people to the basics like that in order that they can make that decision, and so that they are prepared for it once they have.


I should have rephrased that, *I* found it interesting, but most people didn't. I really liked that particular branch of physics but I can see why most people didn't. I particularly liked studying radiation.

A lot of what I learned though was from my own research and not from school.

I should have rephrased that, *I* found it interesting, but most people didn't. I really liked that particular branch of physics but I can see why most people didn't.
Then we must change the way that people think! Enlighten the ignorant masses!

Then we must change the way that people think! Enlighten the ignorant masses!

Haha :)

Perhaps it has something to do with the perception that science is "nerdy", too. Maybe they should include physics in P.E. classes. [gruff coach voice]"OKAY BOYS, NOW, I WANT YOU TO MEASURE THE DISTANCE THAT YOU THROW THE BALL, AND THE TIME IT TAKES TO TRAVEL IT. YOU CAN THUS DEDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FORCE, IN NEWTONS, THAT YOU ARE USING TO THROW IT, AND ALSO FOCUS ON GETTING THE CORRECT FLIGHT TRAJECTORY TO ENSURE AN ACCURATE SHOT! HOP TO IT!"[/gruff coach voice]

(Not as silly as it sounds...you could incorporate basic physics into sports. :))

Maybe they should include physics in P.E. classes. [gruff coach voice]"OKAY BOYS, NOW, I WANT YOU TO MEASURE THE DISTANCE THAT YOU THROW THE BALL, AND THE TIME IT TAKES TO TRAVEL IT. YOU CAN THUS DEDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FORCE, IN NEWTONS, THAT YOU ARE USING TO THROW IT, AND ALSO FOCUS ON GETTING THE CORRECT FLIGHT TRAJECTORY TO ENSURE AN ACCURATE SHOT! HOP TO IT!"[/gruff coach voice]

(Not as silly as it sounds...you could incorporate basic physics into sports. :))

oddly enough, your brain actually has to be able to do some pretty hefty calculations to allow you to do most sports. you don't even have the actual numbers to work with and it all happens rather fast, but you can still catch a ball or, even more impressively, hit one with a stick. that's really rather impressive if you think about what you would need to do to calculate its position.

I think a lot of people just have a general lack of knowledge in a lot of fields of study, not just the sciences and math(s).

I, for example, focused mainly on the humanities and social sciences during my time in college. I was a history major, and thus I find history to be more important than other subjects. I could easily make the case that knowledge about modern Chinese history is of more immediate importance than the structure of atoms. And I'm sure all of you science people could make the case that the structure of atoms is more immediately important than modern Chinese history. But the average person would have limited or no knowledge regarding either of these things, because in day-to-day life, neither of these things are important. It'd be great if everyone had a natural curiosity about the world around them but, as someone chided me in another thread, most people just don't give a damn.

The way I see it, the only way to get people interested in any field of academics is to make it relevant to them. Even if you did that, it would be near impossible to keep them interested in everything, just because most people don't have the time. I really enjoy astronomy and cosmology, but usually they take a backseat to history and literature for me. I've kind of rambled a bit, but my point is that you're never going to get everyone to appreciate everything, even on a basic level.

Haha :)

Perhaps it has something to do with the perception that science is "nerdy", too. Maybe they should include physics in P.E. classes. [gruff coach voice]"OKAY BOYS, NOW, I WANT YOU TO MEASURE THE DISTANCE THAT YOU THROW THE BALL, AND THE TIME IT TAKES TO TRAVEL IT. YOU CAN THUS DEDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FORCE, IN NEWTONS, THAT YOU ARE USING TO THROW IT, AND ALSO FOCUS ON GETTING THE CORRECT FLIGHT TRAJECTORY TO ENSURE AN ACCURATE SHOT! HOP TO IT!"[/gruff coach voice]

(Not as silly as it sounds...you could incorporate basic physics into sports. :))

LOL

Science is "nerdy" because that is how it is seen is schools; it is seen that way in schools because only the more mature and scholarly are good/ enthusiastic at/for it, in general; and the mature and scholarly tend to be "nerds". Which just goes to show that kids are bastards.

But I must leave this discussion now, and do some actual work (gasp!) - science, as it would turn out...