NationStates Jolt Archive

Article (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12159837%255E661,00.html)

"STUDENTS at an exclusive Melbourne school might soon be randomly tested for illegal drugs under a controversial new plan."

Hmm, what are people's thoughts on this?

Is the school right to pry into the out-of-school social activities of its students, and punish accordingly? Or should they butt-out completely, unless signs of unhealthy addiction are present?

How should these students be punished if they are caught?

"There are already repercussions for students who are caught using drugs ranging from counselling, to suspension, to expulsion"

"Geelong Grammar would not release figures but has expelled students who either refused to take tests or tested positive to drugs."

Is it acceptable for a school to expel a student for using drugs in their spare time? Or even refusing to take the test in the first place?

Is this an effective way to combat the problem?

""It can be an incentive to stay away from drugs and resist peer pressure because of the fear of being caught"

Discuss :) I'll put my views down later.

lets give it a shot,

and while we are at it lets try video camera recording.(video surveillance is too expensive)

It's utterly unacceptable to me to perform these tests on students. If they're that worried, random drug tests for everyone! Why just isolate the student community from complete infringements on their privacy? Make everyone have them, it's the same idea just in a broader principle. I'm sure it'll go down a treat.

That'll be an I don't approve, then...

Although I understand the spirit in which this initiative is being undertaken, I think that fundamentally, it's a violation of these student's civil liberties.

A society where students, workers and generally everyone is randomly screened for narcotics is a move towards a very strong big brother state, and to me, is very similar to people being pulled over in their cars for no reason. The latter is illegal, why shouldn't the former be?

One might argue that the school is providing "a service" and that students agree to attend there. However I beleive that a right to education is a fundamental human right, there should be no "choice" or "denial" involved.

Kanabia, make it a poll. :)

..Make everyone have them, it's the same idea just in a broader principle...Some companyes do ask you to sign a contract wich allow them to drug test you anytime...others to lie-detect test you anytime....others to allow all your net activity to be recorded...anytme

If you want in...you need to sign

I think if some Private school would offer it, I would consider it a plus.

Some companyes do ask you to sign a contract wich allow them to drug test you anytime...others to lie-detect test you anytime....others to allow all your net activity to be recorded...anytme

If you want in...you need to sign

I know that, and I don't agree with it either, except the net activity, if it's on their computers. After all, they're partially to blame if you do something majorly illegal from their computers.

But at least that is open from the start. You know what you're being told, and you get to agree to it or disagree to it and walk away. It isn't forced upon you, like this is. (you could refuse and be expelled, but that isn't a fair option, and you know it.)

Kanabia, make it a poll. :)

Done :)

But at least that is open from the start. You know what you're being told, and you get to agree to it or disagree to it and walk away. It isn't forced upon you, like this is. (you could refuse and be expelled, but that isn't a fair option, and you know it.)This is to be aproved or refused by the parents...

If approved...it is going to be forced upon the students...because the parents did not block it.
Students are minors, School itself is forced upon them.

Done :)good stuff.

This is to be aproved or refused by the parents...

If approved...it is going to be forced upon the students...by their parents.

Students are minors, School itself is forced upon them.

yes, but education is a necessity in the world. It might be forced, but it's like forcing someone to eat.

And if the parents get to force that on the students, then the government should get to force random drug tests on the parents. It's only fair.

It's utterly unacceptable to me to perform these tests on students.

Although I understand the spirit in which this initiative is being undertaken, I think that fundamentally, it's a violation of these student's civil liberties.

I agree.

They're going to be shocked, too. Those schools are the elite ones- those kids have a lot of money to spend, and a lot of them splurge it on drugs. A very large amount will test positive for MDA and whatever else they put in Ecstasy nowadays, and marijuana.

I went to a relatively backwater Catholic school, and i'd say that the drug usage there was well above the "25 per cent of students aged 12 to 17 have used cannabis, 5 per cent have used ecstasy and about 3 per cent have tried heroin."

The heroin figure is probably close to exact, but I would estimate that cannabis is as high as 50%, and ecstasy would be at *least* 10%. These usage rate in these elite schools is probably a lot higher.

The fear tactic isn't going to work. There is no way that they can expel all of these students.

I experimented with drugs myself when I was in highschool, and it *is* a problem. It's casual and accepted among high-school students. People come to school stoned. However, if it's not done at the school, I don't think that they should hold any authority over the student's drug habits. Most of it is just experimentation...very few turn drugs into a lasting habit. I think that education is the best way- especially with regards to ecstasy, which is now at the point over here where people no longer know exactly what is in the damn pills. Then again, experience is the best teacher, as they say- I won't touch them after seeing some of the effects the mystery pills can have.

(Also, for the record, most of the students being tested under this scheme will be 18, legally adults. The students that are studying year-12 of high school are there by their own choice. The "parental" thing doesn't hold much sway.)

This is to be aproved or refused by the parents...

If approved...it is going to be forced upon the students...because the parents did not block it.
Students are minors, School itself is forced upon them.here is a short list of civil liberties I was refused when i was there,

vote
buy alcohol
drink alcohol :mad:
buy tobbaco
smoke tobbaco
drive :(
come home after 23h00 :mad:
have a girl xpend the nite (I should have turned Gay to punish them) :fluffle:
wach xxx rated movies :headbang:
...etc

It's only fair.Life is not fair...do your time.

and when its your turn to be a Parent...let them do whatever they want.

here is a short list of civil liberties I was refused when i was there,

vote
buy alcohol
drink alcohol :mad:
buy tobbaco
smoke tobbaco
drive :(
come home after 23h00 :mad:
have a girl xpend the nite (I shold have turned Gay to punish them) :fluffle:
wach xxx rated movies :headbang:
...etc

Heh, as I said, most (let's say, 75%) of the students tested are 18...and that's the drinking, smoking, driving, and porn age here too :)

The heroin figure is probably close to exact, but I would estimate that cannabis is as high as 50%, and ecstasy would be at *least* 10%. These usage rate in these elite schools is probably a lot higher.



Yeah, from what I can remember, (common) cannabis usage in my school, in the last two years, anyway, was closer to 95%, and I believe I might be under-exagerating. I can only remember me, and 2 of my friends not, and I knew practically everyone, some way or another, in the last two years.

True, it's hardly a major drug, but when the rating is that high, the expulsions, or disciplinary actions would be off the scale.

Life is not fair...do your time.

and when you are a Parent...let them do whatever they want...its going to be your rigth.

That's a very weak argument. Life might not be fair, but that's no reason to bring in things specifically designed to make it unfair.

And it's highly unlikely I'll ever be a parent, but that doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion on what I feel is acceptable levels of constriction to a person. And that's what it is, fundamentally. Constriction. If this sort of thing was to get out of hand, the ability to survive on our own, without mummy and daddy being there to give us a helping hand, will be long forgotten.

What this school is doing is wrong. Mainly because they expell you if you refuse to to take the test. The burden of proof is being put on the accused. It's just a sly way to avoid the main principle of justice.

Yeah, from what I can remember, (common) cannabis usage in my school, in the last two years, anyway, was closer to 95%, and I believe I might be under-exagerating. I can only remember me, and 2 of my friends not, and I knew practically everyone, some way or another, in the last two years.

True, it's hardly a major drug, but when the rating is that high, the expulsions, or disciplinary actions would be off the scale.

Aye. That figure that the article mentioned is ages 12-17, though. Just wait until they compare the percentage figures after that generation has gone through university. :eek:

I have to wonder how they got that 25% result...I'm guessing random surveys, but surely going up to teenagers and asking "Have you ever used cannabis?" would obviously not be a good indicator.

Life might not be fair, but that's no reason to bring in things specifically designed to make it unfair.there is no reason...but it happens all the time anyways...
...unfair.
that doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion....You can voice your opinion, I want you to voice your opinion,
thats why i come here for (to begin with)to see what other peoples/groups/countries think.

but be-ad-aware...in this unfair world student opinions do not carry the same weigth...compared to parents.

Heh, as I said, most (let's say, 75%) of the students tested are 18...and that's the drinking, smoking, driving, and porn age here too :)any 18 years olds who want to stop going to school...should be allowed to...in any country.

and they shold be allowed all the drinking, smoking, driving, and porn. :D
and all the sex they can get...specially the sex. :fluffle:

any 18 years olds who want to stop going to school...should be allowed to...in any country.

and they shold be allowed all the drinking, smoking, driving, and porn. :D
and all the sex they can get...specially the sex. :fluffle:

Haha, well, we're allowed to discontinue school at 16 over here. Of course, there's not much open in the way of career paths though. :p

Yeah, from what I can remember, (common) cannabis usage in my school, in the last two years, anyway, was closer to 95%,.
IMO... cannabis(and sex) legal age should be around 14 or 15.

I think cannabis and sex are less worrisome than alcohol.

there is no reason...but it happens all the time anyways...
You can voice your opinion, I want you to voice your opinion,
thats why i come here for (to begin with)to see what other pouples/groups/countries think.

Yeah, I slightly over-reacted there. It wasn't a point against you, just rationalising that my beliefs would be unlikely to change, for the reason I gave above.

but be-ad-aware...in this unfair world student opinions do not carry the same weigth...compared to parents.

I know that, I just don't think that such un-necessary, and brutish, uncivilised decisions have any place in school. This is a police issue, and it should have elements that the police cannot even take, such as random testing. It is not the schools domain to interfere with the private lives of the students.

I think that's a pretty bad breach of privacy. And punishment for drug use seems to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever concieved to me. If anything, it should certainly be counselling or rehabilitation, not punishment. It makes about as much sense as punishment for attempted suicide. Not to mention the fact that many people who use cannabis only do so casually, and need no help. It is merely a recreational activity.

Of course, I am probably biased in the fact that I'm in high school and have used it before...

no
students shouldnt be treated like criminals suspects.

id be happy if the teachers and staff just paid attention and did something about those kids who attend school while drunk or high, who use while in school or who sell/distribute drugs in school. that would take care of the problem while not treating all kids like potential criminals

no
students shouldnt be treated like criminals suspects.

id be happy if the teachers and staff just paid attention and did something about those kids who attend school while drunk or high, who use while in school or who sell/distribute drugs in school. that would take care of the problem while not treating all kids like potential criminals

I agree completely. :)

If its not happening on the school grounds, the school can get fucked. If a student is turning up under the influence, they can call the parents. If my school tried to random drug test me I would have told them where to go. If the police can find resonable grounds to drug test me, then they can feel free but thats it. (not that I'm at school anymore)