NationStates Jolt Archive

Time. I am obsessed with defining time, figuring out how fast it really moves, and whether it truely moves in only one direction.

One thing I figure, time moves faster than light.
Time is constant. But if that is true, then time travel should, theoretically, be possible.
But if time is like a river, then time travel forward is possible whereas time travel backward is impossible. Think of it like this, you are a virus in a river. You would only have a vague awareness of the movement of the river but no control over what direction or how fast you move. Moving downriver, or foward in time is easy. All you have to do is leave the system at the speed of light or faster and then return to earth. But once you do, you will never be able to return to the past at which you started.
To return to the past you must be strong enough to "swim" against the current. But as we know, humanity is not strong enough to "swim" against the current of time, hence time travel into the past is impossible.

I am thinking also, that unlike energy and matter, time has no beginning or end. Just because you are in a dark room and there is no clock, does not mean that time does not exist. It goes on, but you may not be aware of it.

Interesting is the Elektra effect, in which it is theoretically possible to speed up your metabolism to the point that time appears to slow down. Note, I said APPEARS. Time itself continues at the same rate. But your metabolism is now moving so fast that what is nanoseconds for the rest of us becomes minutes to you.
Which leads me to another interesting idea. The idea of the quantum second. A unit of time so small and fast that it both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.

Idea number 1: All people are moving through time.
Idea number 2: All people move through time at the same rate.

Hypothesis:A. The speed of light can be surpassed since we now know that light does not have constant speed. Only an apparent constant speed. For example we know that light moved much faster in the past than it does now. We also know that physicists have been able to freeze time. And also, we know that immense amounts of gravity can slow or even stop light. If the speed of light were constant regardless, then none of these should be possible.
B. It is impossible to reach a speed which cause you to move backward in time. However, foward motion through time is possible, but travel to the past is not.

Contrary to Einstiens model of the universe is kind of double cone shaped, cosmologists have found that the universe is flat with lots of imperfections.

To assume that time and light move at the same speed is virtually to claim they are the same or are inseperable. That would imply that time has a beginning.
Idea: Yet even if there is nothing, there is still something.

Idea: Gravity affects light, but not time. While gravity does not affect the passage of time, it does affect the mechanism of aging.
Everything ages, not just biological enitities. Even the sun and the galaxy are both aging, though at different rates.

Hypothesis: Everything and everyone has both an internal clock and an external clock.

Hypothesis: If we can figure out time, we can be closer to finding a unified theory.

Does anyone know what the heck I am talking about here? I've been spending the last 3 to 4 weeks thinking about this. I don't think anyone knows what I am talking about. I am not even sure I understand it myself, I just know it seems important and interesting to try to find out.
Maybe if I read up on what's his names VSL theory.

Question: Why the heck does time only travel forward or does it really only travel forward? Maybe it doesn't but we can't detect the other directions in which it moves.
How the hell do we know whether the speed of time is variable or constant?

Good question. Racked my brain about it some months ago. Until now, I'm just as confused. The fault on my part I find is that I know jack shit about quantum physics, and it's calculations to really delve into it.

Umm. Physicist haven't freezed time. They just slow it down. They had the project with the atom clock, and a plane flew and very high speeds. Then they checked the atom clock and the time was slightly slower compared to the atom clock on land.

Time is an illusion, an alleged perception by Man made possible by his acknowledgement of the phenomenon of memory.

No one "moves through time". Rather, our consciousness exists on a threshold of that which we perceive to be time. That threshold we call "the present."

Time is an illusion, an alleged perception by Man made possible by his acknowledgement of the phenomenon of memory.

No one "moves through time". Rather, our consciousness exists on a threshold of that which we perceive to be time. That threshold we call "the present."

What.. and if we think really hard, our memories are actually a conjurement through space and time going back into the past? :D

Maybe there is no time, but simply a series of independent actions, similar to the 24 frames in a movie reel /second.
But in reality, these frames are moving at a Planck time unit. So we don't see them but move from one to the next, for all intent and purposes, instantaneously. We perceive this movement as 'Time'.
It would also explain why we can't go back in time. Because those 'frames' have been destroyed or written over.

Really? I'm obsessed over a particular girl at the moment. Funny how we're so different.

Time. I am obsessed with defining time, figuring out how fast it really moves, and whether it truely moves in only one direction.

One thing I figure, time moves faster than light.
Time does not travel space.


Time is constant. But if that is true, then time travel should, theoretically, be possible.
But if time is like a river, then time travel forward is possible whereas time travel backward is impossible. Think of it like this, you are a virus in a river. You would only have a vague awareness of the movement of the river but no control over what direction or how fast you move. Moving downriver, or foward in time is easy. All you have to do is leave the system at the speed of light or faster and then return to earth. But once you do, you will never be able to return to the past at which you started.
To return to the past you must be strong enough to "swim" against the current. But as we know, humanity is not strong enough to "swim" against the current of time, hence time travel into the past is impossible.

I am thinking also, that unlike energy and matter, time has no beginning or end. Just because you are in a dark room and there is no clock, does not mean that time does not exist. It goes on, but you may not be aware of it.

Interesting is the Elektra effect, in which it is theoretically possible to speed up your metabolism to the point that time appears to slow down. Note, I said APPEARS. Time itself continues at the same rate. But your metabolism is now moving so fast that what is nanoseconds for the rest of us becomes minutes to you.
Which leads me to another interesting idea. The idea of the quantum second. A unit of time so small and fast that it both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.

Idea number 1: All people are moving through time.
Idea number 2: All people move through time at the same rate.

Hypothesis:A. The speed of light can be surpassed since we now know that light does not have constant speed. Only an apparent constant speed. For example we know that light moved much faster in the past than it does now. We also know that physicists have been able to freeze time. And also, we know that immense amounts of gravity can slow or even stop light. If the speed of light were constant regardless, then none of these should be possible.
B. It is impossible to reach a speed which cause you to move backward in time. However, foward motion through time is possible, but travel to the past is not.

Contrary to Einstiens model of the universe is kind of double cone shaped, cosmologists have found that the universe is flat with lots of imperfections.

To assume that time and light move at the same speed is virtually to claim they are the same or are inseperable. That would imply that time has a beginning.
Idea: Yet even if there is nothing, there is still something.

Idea: Gravity affects light, but not time. While gravity does not affect the passage of time, it does affect the mechanism of aging.
Everything ages, not just biological enitities. Even the sun and the galaxy are both aging, though at different rates.

Hypothesis: Everything and everyone has both an internal clock and an external clock.

Hypothesis: If we can figure out time, we can be closer to finding a unified theory.

Does anyone know what the heck I am talking about here? I've been spending the last 3 to 4 weeks thinking about this. I don't think anyone knows what I am talking about. I am not even sure I understand it myself, I just know it seems important and interesting to try to find out.
Maybe if I read up on what's his names VSL theory.

Question: Why the heck does time only travel forward or does it really only travel forward? Maybe it doesn't but we can't detect the other directions in which it moves.
How the hell do we know whether the speed of time is variable or constant?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0136119719/qid=1107680803/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/103-8876440-0734227?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Could some one please point me towards a website about the Elektra effect, it sounds pretty intresting.

I've not got too much info on this, my knowledge being limited to weekly editions of New Scientist at college and a book I read where the physicists were too busy being pissed with the failure of string theory to be speculative, but it seems to me that travelling forward through time is simple. Though no instantaneous jump stuff..

And that slowing time down expewriment was performed after they noticed that clocks on the Apollo missions were a few seconds behind.

If it's possible to speed metabolism up, making time seem to move slower, shouldn't it be possible to slow it down, thus making time move faster, which in a way is time-travel?

If you want to make it seem as though time has been sped up go for a run or some thing.... unless your old?.

\I just realized something. If time inside something going really fast slows down, so it is like going forward in time, aren't we experiencing that. Surely the universe is getting older slower than we think.

We are spinning on an axis, orbiting a star, orbiting a galaxy, and being flung from the centre of the universe, all at frighteningly high speeds. This would surely alter our perception of time quite considerably. Bugger. I hate the universe now.

Could some one please point me towards a website about the Elektra effect, it sounds pretty intresting.
I came up with it during my thoughts on time. And my thoughts somehow turned to the movies Butterfly Effect and Elektra. I figure that the stuff that Elektra was supposed to do, (freezing time) could be possible if instead freezing time, you could speed up your own metabolism to make it seem as if time were frozen. Yet as stated by most people here, time cannot truely by frozen. Cause even when she is in that high metabolic state, time still continues to move forward, its just that what for us are nanoseconds and stuff becomes minutes or even hours for her.

The Butterfly Effect is seperate but possibly related to the issue of time. Basically what I came up with is that the brain is the anchor that holds the soul to the body. When the brain dies the soul becomes unanchored, freed, and bodiless. In idea is that while our bodies can not move back throught time, it might be possible for a spirit or ghost to do so since they might not have the same restrictions as we do. They should be able to go almost anywhere they want. Problem is that there is absolutely no way to test it. Hence it likely won't even make it to the hypothesis stage.

I think you need to look into some extradimensional physics, my friend. It will ease your mind a great deal.

If it's possible to speed metabolism up, making time seem to move slower, shouldn't it be possible to slow it down, thus making time move faster, which in a way is time-travel?
Yes, I think so. But for those who are used to high pace living, I think such an experience might really bore them to death.

\I just realized something. If time inside something going really fast slows down, so it is like going forward in time, aren't we experiencing that. Surely the universe is getting older slower than we think.

We are spinning on an axis, orbiting a star, orbiting a galaxy, and being flung from the centre of the universe, all at frighteningly high speeds. This would surely alter our perception of time quite considerably. Bugger. I hate the universe now.
I would agree. Though time itself would move at a constant rate, I think it is likely that the experience of movement through time could be different for some people and some things. This would be based on the movements of the internal clock which is not always in sync with the external clocks.

I've got a question. If time is infinite, why would you need to travel back in time? Just invent a method of being conscious indefinitely, and by definition everything should happen an infinite number of times in an infinite time period.

I think you need to look into some extradimensional physics, my friend. It will ease your mind a great deal.
Are you talking about M theory (superstring theory).
There is another most interesting theory invented by some portuguese phycisist fellow known as VSL theory. (Varying speed of light theory). He was the first to propose that light moved faster in the past than it does now. If you take VSL, you eliminate the need for such things as dark energy and dark matter.

Time does not travel space.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0136119719/qid=1107680803/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/103-8876440-0734227?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I would agree with that. I would think maybe time travels a different dimension but still has an effect on ours.

I've got a question. If time is infinite, why would you need to travel back in time? Just invent a method of being conscious indefinitely, and by definition everything should happen an infinite number of times in an infinite time period.
Why would you want to do that? Wouldn't that be boring to do the same thing over and over again like some kind of broken record?

Why would you want to do that? Wouldn't that be boring to do the same thing over and over again like some kind of broken record?
Yeah, but....I wanna see a 5 metre high platinum statue of myself materialise before my very eyes!

I've always seen time as something similar to matter. An inert mass in which we live and we are made up of.

The passage of time is just human perception.


There. I babbled.

Just several random thoughts on this subject.

Scientists have been able to "freeze" light, but to my knowledge, not time.

Time, gravity and light all seem to be interwoven, but can be effectively manipulated within limits.

M-theory has replaced sting theory, primarily by positing two extra dimensions.

Just several random thoughts on this subject.

Scientists have been able to "freeze" light, but to my knowledge, not time.

Time, gravity and light all seem to be interwoven, but can be effectively manipulated within limits.

M-theory has replaced sting theory, primarily by positing two extra dimensions.
Last I saw they'd got light to 30mph.

String theory is a part of M-theory isn't it? Like a little brother, or inbred cousin.

Last I saw they'd got light to 30mph.

String theory is a part of M-theory isn't it? Like a little brother, or inbred cousin.

It is an entirely different theory, but builds on the findings of super-string theory: http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html

The experiment with clocks on a superfast plane and the astronauts going to the moon and having different time on thier clocks on return, was proof of the relativity of time; ie: the speed of time depends on where you are experiencing it.
There's more to it (gravity, speed of motion etc) but my mind boggles with the idea that someone moved outside of MY time, and yet is still connecting, communication with me. If time is linear, why are they behind my time and still here?
(Brain explodes)
I like to view time more like a vast sea. It has currents and eddies, its very messy, yet highly interconnected. You can shift your relative point of view yet remain connected.
Intuitively, it make sense to me, but trying to prove it would be outside my interest and abilities in higher math and physics.

Scientists have been able to "freeze" light, but to my knowledge, not time.
Well, you can never freeze a photon, per se. And, the fact of the matter is, that light is a tangible entity, while time is extradimensional.

Time, gravity and light all seem to be interwoven, but can be effectively manipulated within limits.
How? Time is its own thing, gravity is one of the fundamental interactions, and light is photons.

Well, you can never freeze a photon, per se. And, the fact of the matter is, that light is a tangible entity, while time is extradimensional.

How? Time is its own thing, gravity is one of the fundamental interactions, and light is photons.

Now you're asking me to explain things about which I have very little knowledge. I was speaking from the standpoint of a well-read layman. If you like, I can refer you to some of the books I have read, but explanations are not only beyond my capabilities in this field, but are convoluted and rather lengthy.

My friend did not answer my question. Whether string theory could affect the movement of time. She is majoring in physics. I thought she might know so I asked.

Just several random thoughts on this subject.

Scientists have been able to "freeze" light, but to my knowledge, not time.

Time, gravity and light all seem to be interwoven, but can be effectively manipulated within limits.

M-theory has replaced sting theory, primarily by positing two extra dimensions.
I thought M theory was just the best of all the superstring theories.
I don't think it is possible to freeze time. But I think if it is possible for gravity to bend light, then it would certainly be possible to "freeze" light. However, I am not convinced that gravity has any effect on time. But instead affects the workings of clocks.

Now you're asking me to explain things about which I have very little knowledge. I was speaking from the standpoint of a well-read layman. If you like, I can refer you to some of the books I have read, but explanations are not only beyond my capabilities in this field, but are convoluted and rather lengthy.
What do you think of these books:

Time Travel in Einstien's Universe the Physical Possibilities of Travel Through Time by J. Richard Gott

Faster Than Light Superluminal Loopholes in Physics by Nick Herbert P.H.D. (also the author of "Quantum Reality")

I thought M theory was just the best of all the superstring theories.
I don't think it is possible to freeze time. But I think if it is possible for gravity to bend light, then it would certainly be possible to "freeze" light. However, I am not convinced that gravity has any effect on time. But instead affects the workings of clocks.

I recall one example of how gravity affects time: as matter passes the event horizon of black holes, time is extended to the point where to an independent observer, the matter seems to enlongate but to cease movement, whereas, to an observer within the same influence area of the black hole, time appears to move as usual.

I may have some of the details of that wrong, but I'm sure the essence of it is correct.

What do you think of these books:

Time Travel in Einstien's Universe the Physical Possibilities of Travel Through Time by J. Richard Gott

Faster Than Light Superluminal Loopholes in Physics by Nick Herbert P.H.D. (also the author of "Quantum Reality")

Here are the books on these topics with which I am most familiar, some of them dealing only with the subject tangentially:

The Conscious Universe, by Kafatos and Nadeau

The Tao of Physics, by Fritjof Capra

Quantum Mechanics and Experience, by David Z. Albert

The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene

Black Holes & Time Warps, by Kip S. Thorne

Every one appears to be offering suggestions on books about physics and quantum mechanics from a more technical point of view. It seems to me, from you original post, that the questions you have are more philosophical in nature than technical.
(Quantum Mechanics and Experience, by Albert, does touch on the philosophy, but is not explicitly philosophical.)

One recommended book, for a good background on the philosophy of time is The Philosophy of Time (http://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0198239998/ref=pd_sim_b_2/104-8044394-8127964?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) (Oxford Readings in Philosophy) by Robin Le Poidevin.

I don't think it is possible to freeze time. But I think if it is possible for gravity to bend light, then it would certainly be possible to "freeze" light. However, I am not convinced that gravity has any effect on time. But instead affects the workings of clocks.


Theoretically, in relativity, gravitional fields do affect time. Of course, any attempt to measure thius effect can always be denied by the possibility that it was the measuring device, and not time itself, that was affected.
Remember that gravity is effectively an acceleration and if the acceleration is high enough for long enough then relativistic time dilation effects start to occur.

Theoretically, in relativity, gravitional fields do affect time. Of course, any attempt to measure thius effect can always be denied by the possibility that it was the measuring device, and not time itself, that was affected.
Remember that gravity is effectively an acceleration and if the acceleration is high enough for long enough then relativistic time dilation effects start to occur.
Hmmm. That is highly possible and is probably happening somewhere right now.

Time is an illusion, an alleged perception by Man made possible by his acknowledgement of the phenomenon of memory.

No one "moves through time". Rather, our consciousness exists on a threshold of that which we perceive to be time. That threshold we call "the present."


I think (I could be wrong here) that this only applys if you hold to the theory that the universe itself is eternal and therefore has no begining or end.

I have concluded that there are but 2 theorys (I use that term loosely)

There is dichotomy as far as I can tell.

1. Universe is eternal or God who created universe is eternal.

2. Something springs from nothingness. Matter appeared from a timeless void.

I hold to #1 and I happen to think that God exists and is eternal for him time does not exist he is "above" (for lack of a better word) time. Or perhaps is time. If God created the universe then it had a begining which means time exists.

Complex and interesting subject though.

Time isn't a constant at all. As one travels at speeds that approach the speed of light, time for that individual will effectively slow down. Also, as stated previously, it is theorized that gravitational fields slow time down. Thus, on a planet much larger than ours, time would be slightly slower. This is related to the theorized time standstill on the event horizon of a black hole.

The speed of light, however, is a constant when traveling through space, unaffected by matter. The apparent slowing down or even stopping of light by heavy gravitational fields is more likely an illusory effect due to the warping of space itself.

I have theorized about what time is myself, and reached the conclusion that time is linked to entropy, i.e. the tendency for all things to strive towards a state of disorder. The oft used example is the plate being dropped and breaking into several small pieces. Entropy hinders the reverse from spontaneously happening. Gravity, however, is something of an opposite pole to entropy, as it causes matter to aggregate into more orderly forms. Thus, more gravity = less entropy = slower time.

I'm no physicist, of course; these are just my own personal reflections.