NationStates Jolt Archive

I have an affection for the United States and I consider the Americans to be my people. However I am also corrupt and I'd fuck this country over for about $500 million and guarantee of safety.

I would die for my country, right or wrong.

I feel no ethnic identity with my country (the USA) as it is not the geographic homeland of my people (the dutch and the norwegians).

Also, I feel no ideological identity with the great majority of the people who live here, and nothing but contempt for our system of government.

I don't fit any of those options. I will not betray my country at any price, but I will not die for it either.

I don't fit any of those options. I will not betray my country at any price, but I will not die for it either.
Same

Why must we equate loyalty wth dying for something?

I am loyal to the ideal my country holds as it's ideal. Though it is rarely ideal, I believe that ideal and my country's belief in that ideal is worth fighting for.

Besides, where else can I have so much fun? :)

I like Britain, but dying for it sounds like a pretty dumb idea considering there are people much better suited for the job. I will support it by speaking British English instead. And drinking tea.

I wouldn't die for my first country (Germany), but I would for my second (Greece).

I don't fit with any of the options either. I'm completely neutral when it comes to my country. I wouldn't fight to defend my country, only my own personal property. If major war broke out on British soil I would attempt to emmigrate.

However, I don't hold any kind of major grudge against my country either, I guess in its empire days it had a pretty poor human rights track record, but I'm not particularly ashamed of it in its current state. I don't particularly like the current government. By which I mean the Labour government, I'm fine with the weak monarch and parliament. However, we could use some sort of constitution instead of relying on common law. If we did, it'd be a lot clearer what we were and weren't allowed to do.

Still, that's not enough to constitute hatred or even mild dislike for my country. I just don't care. I'm no flag burner, but I'm not a flag waver either.

What if I wouldn't fight for or against my country?

We don't choose where we are born, it's stupid to be proud of your country. When we look past nationality we're all more alike then you would ever believe.

that reminds me of the Simpsons quote. "The United States has its grandeur, and it's follies, but mostly, it's the place where all our stuff is."

I would fight for whoever I supported. If my country supported my ideals, then I would fight for it. If it didn't, and another one did, I would fight for that country. If I didn't believe in any, then I would not fight at all. I am not partiotic in any respect, I support who I support, not who or what people tell me I support.

I take it for my duty to stand up for my country and people. This surely does include defending it and in the worst case giving ones life for it. It's not just "dying". In my native language there's a word for "to be killed in action". Who am I to always just recive and run when I have to give?

But I simply don't like this "right or wrong" thing. If there's a regime leading my country and acting in ways I simply cannot accept, fighting for my country means to fight the regime.

Good answers all. I should have included an Other choice on the poll.

my view is that your nationality is only where you have been born, by chance - i didn't work to be part of this nation, its just where i happened to be born. a nation is little more than a group of peoples and a government. although i see no real reason to be proud about my country, i do see things about my country to be proud of. it is those aspects, more than my country that i am loyal to (such a democracy for eg). i however would not be disloyal to my country as i have responsibilities as a citizen of this nation.
and as for a betrayal price, there isnt one for me (i think....actually slap a few million down on the table and i'll have to think for a bit). if whatever it is i am giving away for the money is a matter of national security, i wouldn't be bribed as i couldn't stand the thought of that information going on to harm others.

as a side note, some (immigrants) do have to work to become part of a nation and i have respect for them, their accomplishments, and would understand if they were both proud and very loyal to their country.

I feel no ethnic identity with my country (the USA) as it is not the geographic homeland of my people (the dutch and the norwegians).

Do you speak Dutch and Norwegian?

I wouldn't die for my country, but I'd sure as hell kill for it.

This would've been an easier response if the country were younger and had the same founders around ....
i'd have to pick "Udder" since i'm acutely aware of my country's more-now-than-ever issue of selling its own people down the river.
If i were a land/shareholder in the upbringing and had direct instead of tertiary involvement with my country and thus a significant stake to take what came of human nature, i may be willing to answer a little differently, but for the same reasons that i don't believe in bling that i don't believe my country represents my interests well nor do very many other countries truly know where i'm at as far as my loyalties interests and concerns are. We're not the sum of Fox news and neither is the rest of the world.
And because of that i can't say i would die for it right or wrong, i would die for the original ideals because even in my not quite advanced state i know they were about as close to right as any governmental concordance was likely to get.
*sigh*
Bush does not represent my country either, nor do any of his f*ckheaded followers-without-question. I am aware Bush isn't the only culprit of late, as there are quite a few involved in this betrayal of the United States citizenry. I would not die for him for ANYTHING. He and my country AREN'T the same thing.

Do you speak Dutch and Norwegian?


Not to any appreciable degree, which is why I identify myself a great deal more with England than with norway, holland or the US.

I feel most 'at home' in English culture and prefer the english spoken by people in england.

... prefer the english spoken by people in england.

Have to agree with you there, though I am somewhat biased. :D

I suppose that the best answer I could give is this:

I feel no identity with the US based on "blood," as my ancestors are only very recently american.

I feel no cultural identity with the US and outright animosity towards certain regions.

I see nothing worth defending in the US and view myself more as a prisoner of circumstances than a citizen.

I escape, as it were, every chance I get.

Im proud to be an American, and if i had to i would place it all on the line for this country. The poeple, the places, the hamburgers from the Telway on the corner of a street in Michigan i use to live on... So many things ive fallen in love with in my life time.... Good stuff...

You gotta be from some place, and love something, and if you cant bring your self to let it be your country, well... I have nothing to say to you...

Well, I'm loyal to my country, which happens to be the US.

I like the country, but I don't think I could dislike the current "leadership" more than I currently do. Under Curious George, there's no way in hell I would fight for the US.

You don't need to like Dubya to like the US, and that's the stance I take.

That's a tough question, I wouldn't die so much for my country (United States) so much as for the ideals it "stands for" like democratic government, liberty and the rule of law.

Dying for my country would be a great honor. So, yes, I'm quite loyal.

Define 'loyalty.' If by loyal you mean 100% obedient to the central government (i.e., Nazis to Hitler, Limbaugh to the Republicrud Party), than no. But I do love my country, in spite of its (many, many) faults.

I would die for my country's enemies
This option could be interpreted the wrong way. :D
Well as for the question. I don't know realy. It's easy to say yes I would or no I wouldn't from the safety of your computer screen. Can't say with 100% certainty what I would do if it came to this. So I will abstain from the poll.

I don't fit any of the options.

As an American, I would have to say "it depends." I would not want to die in the Iraq war. We shouldn't be there in the first place. On the other hand, I would have sacrificed my life to fight Hitler in a second had I been alive then. Less eager to go to Vietnam.... I am, frankly, embarrased by a lot of our actions as a country, both present and historical. That fact makes it difficult to make a blanket statement one way or the other. There are a lot things the USA (supposedly) stands for that I would die for, but it's pretty much case-by-case for me. I suppose I don't have any loyalty to the USA as a country per se, but I would die to defend the principles it should stand for, if those principles were truly at stake.

The only way I would die in the Iraq war was if I were drafted. I would fight then, not for the United States, but for my comrades. I would not say "this war is wrong," not fight, and let my fellow soldiers die because I am a "pacifist". That is a tough thing to admit. But if forced, I would fight to preserve their lives because I would know them and trust them, and I owe them that. It's hard to blame the Iraqi insurgents for their anger, but their intentional murder of civilians is appalling. Still, I am peaceful. I would not want to kill them. I am sick at the thought of murdering someone. Everyone has a mother, a family. Friends. A lover. Who wants to rip someone away from all that, leave a gaping hole in the lives of those you've never even met?

To address the other quiz options, no price would buy my cooperation with the murder of innocents, if that is what "betrayal" means.

I would die for certain things. I would die for peace, if that is even possible. I would die to save another's life. I would die for freedom. But only real freedom, not Bush's version of freedom, which seems to include imposing it in the form of bombs.

I like my country (USA! USA!) I just don't like the people who run it.
Grabs a gas can pours it on the white house and lights it.

Every single country on the planet is inhabited by a majority of bastards who would screw you over in a nanosecond if they thought it would help. The 'values' of said countries were created by similar scum and corrupt leaders, and are either being bombed by other countries, or slowly stamped to pieces by corrupt politicians who have nothing else in mind but their own goals.

Would I die for all that? Hell no.

I'm a Communist, and would love to have my American Bretheren and I enjoying the just claimed spoils of the Ruling Class, but because this will not be happening in a country based on Classical Liberalism and Capitalism, I would happily die fighting for my countries' enemies.

that reminds me of the Simpsons quote. "The United States has its grandeur, and it's follies, but mostly, it's the place where all our stuff is."
Rip off of The Tick!

you need an option between #3 and #4

I am loyal to my country, but not in the traditional militant IRA Irish nationalist way. I want to do all I can to improve my nation.

I accidently put I would die for my country's enemies. LOL I'm an idiot. I guess I confused it for something like "I would die in battle against my country's enemies," or some shit like that. In any case, the choices weren't that great. Because I'm in no hurry to die for my country, but I would do it if I judged it a war worth fighting, for right reasons. I considered joining the military, but I will not, because I don't intend to be sent off to Iraq fighting a war that I believe is wrong. I would never betray my country. There would have to be a real, known dictator in power for that to happen, in which it wouldn't be betraying my country, but helping it. Bush, though he sucks major balls, is not a dictator.

My country, right or wrong -- to be stood by when right and corrected when wrong.

And, as much as a fan of democracy and liberty as I am, I'm not sure they or anything else at all, except possibly the well-being of my friends, is worth dying for. I'd rather keep myself alive to fight for those ideals another day than throw my life away needlessly.

I am not loyal to my country or any other but I wouldn't help it be harmed for any price.

I won't fill in this poll because I don't agree with it. I am loyal to this country, but not because it is the USA. It is because it is the most free nation on the planet. A few that have more freedom do exist, like Hong Kong. But defense is China's job, and that would prop up a dictatorship.
Anyhow, the US is the most free, and if that freedom was in critical danger, I'd fight for it. However, if they took away that freedom entirely, I'd turn on the US government on a dime.

I won't fill in this poll because I don't agree with it. I am loyal to this country, but not because it is the USA. It is because it is the most free nation on the planet. A few that have more freedom do exist, like Hong Kong. But defense is China's job, and that would prop up a dictatorship.
Anyhow, the US is the most free, and if that freedom was in critical danger, I'd fight for it. However, if they took away that freedom entirely, I'd turn on the US government on a dime.

Guns and lots of economic freedoms are about the only things you have over other nations. Half of Europe affords better civil rights to their citizens than America does, only a few of them don't allow guns.

Phuck, I selected the first option, when I meant the last. Can we unvote in any way?

I've sworn the Soldier's oath:

"Minä tahdon kaikkialla ja kaikissa tilanteissa, rauhan ja sodan aikana puolustaa isänmaani koskemattomuutta, sen laillista yhteiskuntajärjestystä sekä valtakunnan laillista esivaltaa." trl. "I will, everywhere and in all circumstances, in times of peace, or war, to defend the integrity of my fatherland, its law and order and the authorities of the nation."

Notice how this doesn't oblige me to fight USA's oil wars, because as far as I know, Saddam wasn't trying to oust Halonen. (He left that task to us.)

I don't like the USA too much, and the damned things far too big for me to even to begin to try to change it. I feel I'd be better off starting my own country, namely the Plutonian Empire. So yes, I'd pretty much betray the US...

Guns and lots of economic freedoms are about the only things you have over other nations. Half of Europe affords better civil rights to their citizens than America does, only a few of them don't allow guns.
That is debatable. I can argue, for example, that continental European nations, mainly France, Germany, and Italy, are actually quite invasive. The French government has an entire department for social change, and has banned religious symbols in their schools (something unthinkable in the US). The Italian police has historically had a bad track record of abuse of power, and may still have one. All three ban "incitement of hatred" (whatever that means), and ban certain literature. I'm not saying that the European states are mini-Soviet Unions, but they aren't perfect.
The US has had the USA PATRIOT Act, which is a bit invasive. However, despite how certain sections are unconstitutional, it is still less evasive than many European governments. And economic freedom, btw, makes a helluvalot of difference.

As a Communist I am not loyal to any country and I believe that the only thing that unites people is their class and not their nationality. The only thing I am willing to die for is the advancement of Socialism and democracy against the capitalist and fascist oppressors.

None of the above.

BEING FUNNY :)
Ack! Die for country, right or wrong! Ack!!
Ending being stupid now, maybe :)

To my mind, Great Birtain is the greatest nation on the face of this earth.

We have our problems as do any other nation, but this is my home, and the people who are my friends and colleagues are my countrymen.

I would gladly die for my countrymen and my country right or wrong.


God Save the Queen!

That is debatable. I can argue, for example, that continental European nations, mainly France, Germany, and Italy, are actually quite invasive. The French government has an entire department for social change, and has banned religious symbols in their schools (something unthinkable in the US). The Italian police has historically had a bad track record of abuse of power, and may still have one. All three ban "incitement of hatred" (whatever that means), and ban certain literature. I'm not saying that the European states are mini-Soviet Unions, but they aren't perfect.
The US has had the USA PATRIOT Act, which is a bit invasive. However, despite how certain sections are unconstitutional, it is still less evasive than many European governments. And economic freedom, btw, makes a helluvalot of difference.

Well that's three nations. Substantially less than half of the nations present in Europe. Notice I said 'half', and meant it as a rough exaggeration at that.
Economic freedoms was referring to how much you let huge, multinational companies rampage around the planet screwing everything up, with next-to-no regulations compared to those laid down by the EU (which wasn't actually a compliment). I admit the taxation rates of the USA alone are enough to move there, though. 40% income tax is rarely appealing.

Well that's three nations. Substantially less than half of the nations present in Europe. Notice I said 'half', and meant it as a rough exaggeration at that.
But most don't go far enough.
Economic freedoms was referring to how much you let huge, multinational companies rampage around the planet screwing everything up, with next-to-no regulations compared to those laid down by the EU (which wasn't actually a compliment). I admit the taxation rates of the USA alone are enough to move there, though. 40% income tax is rarely appealing.
I don't see that as a bad thing. For one, they got where they are because does not have the crutch called the social safety network (which stiffles innovation), and liberal economic laws and regulations. These multinationals you so dispise are the engines of the world, and they are helping to lift millions outta poverty, which is something a well-intentioned government can never do. And most companies, big or small, are not interested in the population at large, but themselves. By simply acting in their own interests, they help many.
Many countries have economic freedoms, but not to the degree of the US (and Hong Kong, of course). Most have no economic freedom at all. The not-so-hidden irony is that those nations are mostly poor.

I would lay my life for the United States in a moment. I owe everything I have to this great nation and to God; both are worthy of the ultimate sacrifice. This is the least I could do.

: However I am also corrupt and I'd fuck this country over for about $500 million and guarantee of safety.

Fuck you. You're an NWO whore. :upyours:

For the record, I'd die for the people and the ideals which this country was founded on.

I go by an idea, "Our race is our nation" my racial identity is my identity, I could be in any nation as long as it held up white ideals, and was a moral society.

Don't expect safety from me. You're an NWO whore.
Roofle.

To my mind, Great Birtain is the greatest nation on the face of this earth.

We have our problems as do any other nation, but this is my home, and the people who are my friends and colleagues are my countrymen.

I would gladly die for my countrymen and my country right or wrong.


God Save the Queen!


As an american citizen, Great Britain is probably the only country in whose defense I would consider dying.

Roofle.
It's "ROFL", or "Rolling On the Floor Laughing"

It's "ROFL", or "Rolling On the Floor Laughing"
Really. :rolleyes:

Really. :rolleyes:
Did you mispell it on purpose or something?

Did you mispell it on purpose or something?
Roofle = rofl = roffles. The last time i checked there's no official dictionary of internet jargon so I don't think there's a "correct" spelling for these types of things, as long as you get your idea across.

If a civil war broke out in England (UK?) I would support whichever side looked like winning...

A quote comes to mind: 'In a war it helps to be on the side that wins.' :)

I love my country very very much... but my deepest loyalty lies to people, and not a flag. I would never turn my back on my country, because I do think it to be one of the best nations in the world. That said, I do not always agree with the politics or social views of my nations leaders - I'm not sure anyone can say that thy do about theirs either. The things is, this question sort of needs a little more definition. We first need to define 'loyal' in this sense, since it could have several meanings - and then we would need to define exactly what it is about our country that this loyalty is being applied to. :)

*hugs canada*

i don't see dying for my country... ideals perhaps.

I perosnaly would die for Canada. How the hell can't you love this place?And the fact that I have lived here for over 15 years I can't help but want to protect it right or wrong at any cost.

hey, i do love this country, don't get me wrong.

i just don't know about self sacrifice...

I perosnaly would die for Canada. How the hell can't you love this place?And the fact that I have lived here for over 15 years I can't help but want to protect it right or wrong at any cost.
Golly!

In 15 years you haven't figured out that the land belongs to no one?

Roofle = rofl = roffles. The last time i checked there's no official dictionary of internet jargon so I don't think there's a "correct" spelling for these types of things, as long as you get your idea across.
Ah. I see now. Thanks.

Golly!

In 15 years you haven't figured out that the land belongs to no one?
I don't care if the land belongs to no one. I feel tied to my nation and am proud to be a citizen of it.

Well, I'm disloyal to the country forced upon me, the United States. I'm extremely loyal to my chosen country, France, of which I will become a citizen as soon as possible. ^^

Why must we equate loyalty wth dying for something?

I don't think dying is to be taken in the literal sense. I think that in this poll it is meant more as a way of conveying your loyalty to your country.

What if I wouldn't fight for or against my country?

We don't choose where we are born, it's stupid to be proud of your country. When we look past nationality we're all more alike then you would ever believe.
Why love your parents? You didn't get to choose them, they just happened to be the ones you were placed into. I guess if you look past who your parents are, we are all alike. Screw brotherhood, lets just betray our family. Man its sure stupid to love, or be proud of your family.

Neither. Would't betray it, neither would help it.

Why won't I help it? Bloody hell, I'm a second rate citizen although my family has been staying here for more than 4 generations, I don't get the rights and benefits as the 'Princes of the Earth' just because I'm not muslim and not malay. My kids aren't never going to get cheaper education, no welfare benefits and others.

But hey, I don't care. Once I made my money I'm going overseas to diversify and invest.

If we go to war, I'm the first to run. :p

Why love your parents? Man its sure stupid to love, or be proud of your family.

Good idea. I always questioned the "Think not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

I personally believe it's vice versa. But most people don't know what their country can do for them.

Good idea. I always questioned the "Think not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

I personally believe it's vice versa. But most people don't know what their country can do for them.
Most societies these days are selfish rather than selfless, people may serve their country and help it but overall there doing this for themselves. People may do actions that benefits their society but their mainly doing it because it will benefit them. When was the last time you gave someone a gift with absolutely no thought whatsoever about anything at all in return, no one really does.

Well, I'm disloyal to the country forced upon me, the United States. I'm extremely loyal to my chosen country, France, of which I will become a citizen as soon as possible. ^^

I suppose I would fight for France as well.

And Norway and Holland.

As somone born in the US and a citizen, I would fight only for Great Britain, France, Norway and Holland.

GB because it is the fount of modern civilization and home and mother of the English language, france as it is the bastion of culture, Norway because it has found the best way to run a country, and Holland of its unending beauty.

Also, the people of each country are of grand and noble national character and their ways of life are worth fighting to preserve.

I would not lift a finger to preserve the rotten carcass of the united states. It has brough any ill that might come upon itself.

Most societies these days are selfish rather than selfless, people may serve their country and help it but overall there doing this for themselves. People may do actions that benefits their society but their mainly doing it because it will benefit them. When was the last time you gave someone a gift with absolutely no thought whatsoever about anything at all in return, no one really does.

Humans are naturally greedy. Or thats my opinion of it (see my nick?) :D

I do not believe everybody is so altruistic as to give their life and all without asking for anything in return (if not for themselves, but for their kids or friends and family Ie. Soldiers).

Although I believe being absolute selfish is bad, but there has to be a balance. What you do to benefit the society in equal should benefit yourself in turn. If not You can't give what you don't have. Unless you have unlimited resources at your disposal.

I dislike my country and I am very ready to betray it....

I hate america... I wish i was back over in europe, or in canada...

Well, I'm disloyal to the country forced upon me, the United States. I'm extremely loyal to my chosen country, France, of which I will become a citizen as soon as possible. ^^
Au revoir, and bon voyage. Say hi to Johnny Depp for us. :rolleyes:

I dislike my country and I am very ready to betray it....

I hate america... I wish i was back over in europe, or in canada...
Why betray it? That just shows your own lack of moral fiber. Just move to a country in Europe, or to Canada, where your ideals are more in line with the mainstream culture.

I suppose I would fight for France as well.

And Norway and Holland.

As somone born in the US and a citizen, I would fight only for Great Britain, France, Norway and Holland.

GB because it is the fount of modern civilization and home and mother of the English language, france as it is the bastion of culture, Norway because it has found the best way to run a country, and Holland of its unending beauty.

Also, the people of each country are of grand and noble national character and their ways of life are worth fighting to preserve.

I would not lift a finger to preserve the rotten carcass of the united states. It has brough any ill that might come upon itself.
And yet you are still here, and still a citizen . . .

I would fight for my country against any aggressor, foreign or domestic, as I swore an oath to do so.

It should be interesting to note, that in Australia a recent survey was taken of males and gave them the following questions (of many);

1. Would you serve for Australia (with the risk of death) to attack a foreign nation without UN Endorsement? 18% said yes.

2. Same question but with UN endorsement 28% said yes.

3. Would you defend Australia (with the risk of death) from a foriegn nation? 82% said yes.

This survey was of males over 18 and below 45 (Our threshold for our defence forces).

I would die for Australia without a doubt. I love my country and it's people.

But most don't go far enough.

Yet they go much further than the US.

I don't see that as a bad thing. For one, they got where they are because does not have the crutch called the social safety network (which stiffles innovation), and liberal economic laws and regulations. These multinationals you so dispise are the engines of the world, and they are helping to lift millions outta poverty, which is something a well-intentioned government can never do. And most companies, big or small, are not interested in the population at large, but themselves. By simply acting in their own interests, they help many.
Many countries have economic freedoms, but not to the degree of the US (and Hong Kong, of course). Most have no economic freedom at all. The not-so-hidden irony is that those nations are mostly poor.

Globalisation has its good parts; don't get me wrong, I was thinking more along the lines of environmental problems caused by unregulated businesses. The US doesn't restrict their businesses in this regard nearly as much as some, such as the EU, and as the most polluting nation on the planet, this could become a problem.
So far as 'those nations are mostly poor' goes, I would also love to dispute that, but you would apparently disregard it on the basis that those countries aren't America...

I go by an idea, "Our race is our nation" my racial identity is my identity, I could be in any nation as long as it held up white ideals, and was a moral society.

And this an example of the sorts of statement I've seen before where I get ideas like the one I had in that thread in II, DA.

Yet they go much further than the US.
Let's settle it this way: what restrictions are placed by the US? I know there are quite a few, but I just want to hear your answer.


Globalisation has its good parts; don't get me wrong, I was thinking more along the lines of environmental problems caused by unregulated businesses. The US doesn't restrict their businesses in this regard nearly as much as some, such as the EU, and as the most polluting nation on the planet, this could become a problem.
As far as I'm concerned, the environment is too politicized. The free market, and not government legislation, is best to regulate the environment. In the 19th century, for example, horse manuere was releasing fine particles into the air on dry days, polluting drinking water on wet days, and creating large, smelly slosh that made lots of people dirty and ill. As far as I know, no government needed to pass legislation to usher in the car.
So far as 'those nations are mostly poor' goes, I would also love to dispute that, but you would apparently disregard it on the basis that those countries aren't America...
And I see you have written me off as a rascist, chauvanist pig. But nevertheless, I, the scum of the earth, will carry on.
Zimbabwe, North Korea, and Angola are very restrictive economies. They also have GDP per capitas that are no higher than $2500. During the Cold War, the Eastern bloc was poorer than the Western bloc. The eastern one also had greater governmental controls.
I think you are thinking of nations that are capitalist, yet going nowhere. Indeed, they do exist. Some just aren't motivated to succeed, but most do not have a central government powerful enough to control a state. Colombia was always committed to capitalism, but rebels hold large swaths of the country. Many areas are just outside of governmental control. Even so, the Colombians are doing decent, as the Economist reports a $6,500 GDP per capita that does not include the black economy. And it is growing fast.


And this an example of the sorts of statement I've seen before where I get ideas like the one I had in that thread in II, DA.[/QUOTE]

I have no loyalty to the empire. It has let me down far too many times.

I love my country and consider myself a patriot. But I will not die for it right or wrong. I would be willing to die defending it, but not in an unjustified aggressive action. I consider it stupidly blind to say you'd do anything you were told, right or wrong. I also wouldn't be blindly loyal to friend or family if it turned out one was a serial killer.

I have an affection for the United States and I consider the Americans to be my people. However I am also corrupt and I'd fuck this country over for about $500 million and guarantee of safety.

500 million? You should ask for more than that.

I don't like or dislike my country. I definitly wouldn't die for it. I'm not patriotic in the slightest. I would probably 'betray' my country if that was the right thing to do.

I have an affection for the United States and I consider the Americans to be my people. However I am also corrupt and I'd fuck this country over for about $500 million and guarantee of safety.

And to think of all the good men and women who died so you can have the freedom to spout gagbage like this. Shame on you. :gundge: PS I'm retired from the US military so I guess you can figure out where I stand.

Well, I'm disloyal to the country forced upon me, the United States. I'm extremely loyal to my chosen country, France, of which I will become a citizen as soon as possible. ^^

How was the US "forced upon you?" Because you were born here? If so, it wasn't "force upon you" as you can choose to become a citizen of any country that will grant you citizenship once you become of legal age.

I have an affection for the United States and I consider the Americans to be my people. However I am also corrupt and I'd fuck this country over for about $500 million and guarantee of safety.
luckily no one will ever offer you that kind of money

but would you do what aldridge ames did? he worked for the CIA and sold the names of cia operatives in the former soviet union to the KGB for payments that over time came to $1.8 million.

so would you fuck your country and get good men killed for about $50k a pop?

How do you define betray? Betray the government? The people?

I have no loyalty to the government, or any sense of national pride. However I wouldn't commit 'treason' if I perceived it as harmful... If I thought it would e beneficial though, I don't think I'd have a problem.

I dislike my country and I am very ready to betray it....

I hate america... I wish i was back over in europe, or in canada...

[ Offers to pay your way. ]

Actually, I got pretty good at making the other poor son-of-a-bitch die for his country, so yes, I would die for my country, but only as a last resort. :D

I have no loyalty to my country. I have no loyalty to any other though, so I would never betray it.

......... (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=394251)

I like my country (UK), although I feel that it would be better off being run by a conservative government.
I wouldn't fight for my country overseas, however, if aload of terrorist paratroopers dropped in I would be prepared to defend the country regardless of whether or not I'd live to see another day.

I would die for my country (england).

I was not born here, but i have always been a UK citizen (my parents were expats), and i have lived most of my life here.

I actually hate how my country is run, and the direction it is headed, but i would fight and die for it if called upon to do so.

How do you define betray? Betray the government? The people?

I have no loyalty to the government, or any sense of national pride. However I wouldn't commit 'treason' if I perceived it as harmful... If I thought it would e beneficial though, I don't think I'd have a problem.

How can treason not be harmful? Please give us an example.

How can treason not be harmful? Please give us an example.
When an oppressive government is overthrown by a revolutionary movement, is that not treason?
My example from real-life? South Africa. Anyone who was for equality etc was accused, and many were tried for, treason.

And yet you are still here, and still a citizen . . .

The clock is ticking mon cheri.

I would sell out my country in a heartbeat! :D

luckily no one will ever offer you that kind of money

but would you do what aldridge ames did? he worked for the CIA and sold the names of cia operatives in the former soviet union to the KGB for payments that over time came to $1.8 million.

so would you fuck your country and get good men killed for about $50k a pop?


I'd get the scumbags who run the CIA killed for free, if the opportunity arose.

I dont think i'd sell the lives of men for any price though, there are more important things in life than money.

[ Offers to pay your way. ]


I will take you up on that offer.

To live for the country is to die for the country!

To live for the country is to die for the country!
What country is that? lol :p

I suppose I would fight for France as well.

And Norway and Holland.

As somone born in the US and a citizen, I would fight only for Great Britain, France, Norway and Holland.

GB because it is the fount of modern civilization and home and mother of the English language, france as it is the bastion of culture, Norway because it has found the best way to run a country, and Holland of its unending beauty.

Also, the people of each country are of grand and noble national character and their ways of life are worth fighting to preserve.

I would not lift a finger to preserve the rotten carcass of the united states. It has brough any ill that might come upon itself.

Wow, you are definitely a typical American. Except you're not patriotic towards your country, just others, for stupid reasons. Sounds extremely American to me. Idiot. Oh, Holland is pretty! Let me fight for it! WTF.

EDIT: Founder of modern civilization my ass. Yeah, cuz, you know, Italy and the whole Renaissance thing had absolutely nothing to do with it. And France, well, everyone knows their whole Enlightenment stuff isn't used today AT ALL. And well, gosh, the Arabs and Persians and their whole mathematical principles and junk like that, who needs that?

Shakespeare and conquering foreign people does not make you the founder of modern civilization.

Bump..

Good thread. See where this goes for a few more days.

I'm Haken Rider and I... I... *snick*... I buy foreign products. :(

I would be happy to fight and die for my nation England, but i would feel better about doing it if it was for all the right reason like world war 2 when we had no choice.

Why does anyone have to die in order to be loyal to their country?

It's a loaded question.

When an oppressive government is overthrown by a revolutionary movement, is that not treason?
My example from real-life? South Africa. Anyone who was for equality etc was accused, and many were tried for, treason.

No in my book that is a revolution. In my book treason is when you betray your country to an outside enemy. Now, my book could be wrong.

I will take you up on that offer.

I'll kick in a dollar. It woun't take much for you to get to Mexico. :D

I wouldn't fuck my country over. I just would refuse to die for a cause i didn't belive in (ie Vietnam and Iraqi Wars)

I like my country more than the average Joe. I live in the US. I feel very strongly for it. My ancestors have been here since the 1630's. Some for only 100 years. But either way once you are born here it is your country. I hate this bs like "well my family's origins were in Greece therefor I am more loyal to them."

Why do you think your family moved anyway?

No in my book that is a revolution. In my book treason is when you betray your country to an outside enemy. Now, my book could be wrong.

trea·son Audio pronunciation of "treason" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)
n.

1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.

Nup, it's any violation of allegiance to one's country, so it was. Therefore, I think treason is far more widespread than we think. :p

And the freedom fighters in SA were tried for treason.

If the cause was just I would die for America. (ie. I would have given my life without question in WW II, but I would not do the same in Iraq.) I can't imagine how the families of soldiers who have died in Iraq feel... there's not even a sense of purpose. A 2003 grad from my high school just died on Thursday (two days before he was supposed to come home), the second from our school, both from the same class.

Rest in Peace:
Geoffery Morris
Sean Maher

die for my country, under any circumstances

with no small bit of luck- US Navy SEAL in the future

one live can NOT measure up to the well-being of an entire nation you selfish slimebags

Wow, you are definitely a typical American. Except you're not patriotic towards your country, just others, for stupid reasons. Sounds extremely American to me. Idiot. Oh, Holland is pretty! Let me fight for it! WTF.

lol.

I would live for my country, but I wouldn't die for it.
Anyway, my family is different, it's not my country.

And then, it also depends on what this country does for me. If I'm not welcome there, I'd go somewhere else.

I'm loyal to myself, and my own views.

The location that my mother C-sectioned me in, while no doubt leading to many of my values, does not, in and of itself, have value to me as a piece of dirt.

The more something agrees with me, the more I'll defend it. The less it does, the less I give a damn.

Frankly, these days, I'm considering moving to Australia, Canada, or perhaps a Northern European country, as the people there seem to be, on average, more in agreement with my views.

I would gladly sacrifice YOUR life for my country. ;)

But dying for it myself? Bah, then I can't enjoy it anymore.

Generally I quite like my area of the country, the north, and don't care for the rest of it much.

Actually, I got pretty good at making the other poor son-of-a-bitch die for his country, so yes, I would die for my country, but only as a last resort. :D

Yes, because killing people is all fun and games. You're disgusting.

The geographical homelands of my ancestors are Slovakia and Poland. I have visited both and it didn't take me long to feel as though I'd known these people all my life. I am, however, a USA citizen born and raised. I do have an affection for the USA but I am not a "right or wrong" nationalist/chauvinist. I will defend it as long as it is right, however I can conceive of circumstances, where for moral reasons I would have to forcibly oppose the government or work to subvert it if peaceful protest or working "within the system" became impossible or futile. (And I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said we ought to have a revolution every so often.) That is what I mean by "betray if the price was right."
Selling out for money is just plain foolish.

F*** my country.

I would die fighting for what is right, not for any country.

Being loyal to your country is different from being loyal to your government.

By that sense, you can be seen as betraying your country by going against it's government when you feel you are being loyal to the country.

Would I die for my country? It depends. If some fascist invading force invaded, intent on genocide, I would want to get out with my family, for I have more roots with my family with my country.

I would die for my family, if that constitutes as dying for your country, so be it, but I would prefer to live for my family, and see us all survive fighting or fleeing.

If a country invaded to help us from a nazi style occupation, then it would depend on the motives of the invaders.

If I did not like either, my resistance would be aimed at both, at the oppressor, and the exploiter.

Resistance would entail fighting or fleeing. Whatever situation came which forced it.

I'd fight for Britain. I'd die for Wales. You don't actually end up with much choice, what with hiraeth and all.

Am I loyal to my country? Difficult question.
I'm loyal to what my country is now... to small corner shops, kebab takeaways, fish'n'chips and the delightful smell from the pubs, chinese restaraunts and curry houses as I stroll home. It's everyone speaking English (except glaswegians) and policemen outside Parliament pointing out that my shoelace is undone and telling me to "mind how you go". Its the statues on the Embankment and small country churches. It's the snow on Snowdon and the coastline of Scotland. It's the thousand years or so of history that beats up from the soil into your feet. It's the Imperial War museum and the Welsh valleys. It's the way all of this man made or naturally forged beauty shapes the people.

I'm loyal to what my country was... the myths, the legends, the bardic song, the myriad tiny superstitions that ripple in the air in the tiniest village or largest city. It's the medieval castles, the victorian banks, the stone circles. Hell, it's the throne of Britain, forged in blood and steel and a living monument to what we were and have the potential to be again.

And then theres the future, I guess, and loyalty to what might be... Theres the hope that one day people don't take all this for granted. That we'll remember who we are; that we stand on the soil of a country, are served by a work of a state and are all of us the people of one nation.

If my life is the price that all of this survives, or at the very least is remembered for all the ages in it's resplendent glory, then I play it gladly.

I'd fight for Britain. I'd die for Wales. You don't actually end up with much choice, what with hiraeth and all.

Am I loyal to my country? Difficult question.
I'm loyal to what my country is now... to small corner shops, kebab takeaways, fish'n'chips and the delightful smell from the pubs, chinese restaraunts and curry houses as I stroll home. It's everyone speaking English (except glaswegians) and policemen outside Parliament pointing out that my shoelace is undone and telling me to "mind how you go". Its the statues on the Embankment and small country churches. It's the snow on Snowdon and the coastline of Scotland. It's the thousand years or so of history that beats up from the soil into your feet. It's the Imperial War museum and the Welsh valleys. It's the way all of this man made or naturally forged beauty shapes the people.

I'm loyal to what my country was... the myths, the legends, the bardic song, the myriad tiny superstitions that ripple in the air in the tiniest village or largest city. It's the medieval castles, the victorian banks, the stone circles. Hell, it's the throne of Britain, forged in blood and steel and a living monument to what we were and have the potential to be again.

And then theres the future, I guess, and loyalty to what might be... Theres the hope that one day people don't take all this for granted. That we'll remember who we are; that we stand on the soil of a country, are served by a work of a state and are all of us the people of one nation.

If my life is the price that all of this survives, or at the very least is remembered for all the ages in it's resplendent glory, then I play it gladly.

That my friend, is a brilliant viewpoint and post.

*cue Hovis Bread theme tune*

To die for our little corner of England. The Fish and Chips shop that wafts the smell of battered fish as you walk past, your tummy rumbling.

The elderly ladies who smile and comment on a rainy day of umbrellas.

The locals in the pub who ask after your sick relative.

Hunstanton! Cheddar Gorge and St Paul's Cathedral!

A packet of crisps, and roasted peanuts with the Pedigree please mate.

and the call of the Blackbird in the dawning morn.

Why thank you.

*bows*.

Owes more to shakespeare than myself of course.
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, / This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, / This other Eden, demi-paradise, / …This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England

I don't fit any of those options. I will not betray my country at any price, but I will not die for it either.

too true. much as i like home, i have no intention of dying for it on purpose...cos i'm a big coward!!

Meh ... I'm loyal to 4 things before I am loyal to the United States ...

1] Allah
2] My family
3] My tribe
4] Texas

However, as long as the US is loyal to me, I shall bear it no ill will.

I live for my country.. right or wrong... But I dont just live for my country.. I live for my wife.. our soon to be child... and every one of you out on this thing we call earth

Why thank you.

*bows*.

Owes more to shakespeare than myself of course.


Excellent all the same :)

Nup, it's any violation of allegiance to one's country, so it was. Therefore, I think treason is far more widespread than we think. :p

And the freedom fighters in SA were tried for treason.

Ok so now I have it.
1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.

Guess you are right.

If the cause was just I would die for America. (ie. I would have given my life without question in WW II, but I would not do the same in Iraq.) I can't imagine how the families of soldiers who have died in Iraq feel... there's not even a sense of purpose. A 2003 grad from my high school just died on Thursday (two days before he was supposed to come home), the second from our school, both from the same class.

Rest in Peace:
Geoffery Morris
Sean Maher

Try this for sense and purpose:
1. The torture chambers are closed.
2. The rape chambers have been closed.
3. No more mass graves.
4. The people are finally free of a despot and now control their own destiny.
Geoffery Morris and Sean Maher are heroes. They were willing to give their lives so other people can be free. Never forget them or what they did.

I would live for my country, but I wouldn't die for it.
Anyway, my family is different, it's not my country.

And then, it also depends on what this country does for me. If I'm not welcome there, I'd go somewhere else.

One question. Why did your family move to the country you are currently living in? Remember this: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." (John F. Kennedy)

F*** my country.

I would die fighting for what is right, not for any country.

Who determines what is right? You or a majority of the people in your country?

I'd fight for Britain. I'd die for Wales. You don't actually end up with much choice, what with hiraeth and all.

Am I loyal to my country? Difficult question.
I'm loyal to what my country is now... to small corner shops, kebab takeaways, fish'n'chips and the delightful smell from the pubs, chinese restaraunts and curry houses as I stroll home. It's everyone speaking English (except glaswegians) and policemen outside Parliament pointing out that my shoelace is undone and telling me to "mind how you go". Its the statues on the Embankment and small country churches. It's the snow on Snowdon and the coastline of Scotland. It's the thousand years or so of history that beats up from the soil into your feet. It's the Imperial War museum and the Welsh valleys. It's the way all of this man made or naturally forged beauty shapes the people.

I'm loyal to what my country was... the myths, the legends, the bardic song, the myriad tiny superstitions that ripple in the air in the tiniest village or largest city. It's the medieval castles, the victorian banks, the stone circles. Hell, it's the throne of Britain, forged in blood and steel and a living monument to what we were and have the potential to be again.

And then theres the future, I guess, and loyalty to what might be... Theres the hope that one day people don't take all this for granted. That we'll remember who we are; that we stand on the soil of a country, are served by a work of a state and are all of us the people of one nation.

If my life is the price that all of this survives, or at the very least is remembered for all the ages in it's resplendent glory, then I play it gladly.

Beautiful.

Who determines what is right? You or a majority of the people in your country?
[S]He does.